madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Andy o]

According to the log your GPU driver behaves exactly as expected. madVR should adjust accordingly. As a result there should be no visible difference between both settings, except BTB and WTW, when using madVR. I'm aware of that there will be a difference in VMR and EVR in black and white levels, but there should not be any visible difference in madVR. If you do see a difference in madVR, can you please make a screenshot showing the difference, please? Thx.Screenshots:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dznL5xp/0/L/i-dznL5xp-L.jpg
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-q8MjKhD/0/L/i-q8MjKhD-L.jpg

If your retest confirms your first impressions, can I have a sample, please, with which I can reproduce the smoothness difference? Thanks. After reading robpdotcom's comment (see below) maybe you should try installing 10.11 drivers?

Why 10.11 drivers? Did you mean 11.10? I'm already using 11.10 which are the latest non-beta.

[RBG]

I've tried again, but I can't reproduce this problem. Tried switching a lot of times, slow and fast. No crash ever.


Can you try this sample (http://www.filesonic.com/file/11998573/Lia_-_Tori_no_Uta_long_version.mkv) with my filter set.

PotPlayer 1.5.29996
(1) Haali Media Splitter 1.11.288.0
(2) LAV Video Decoder 0.38
(3) Madshi Video Renderer 0.78
(4) Audio Codec/Transform
(5) DirectSound Audio Renderer

MadVR Settings
http://i2.imageban.ru/out/2011/11/07/8d024309df22089e2af4a3ff9652dd3b.png
http://i4.imageban.ru/out/2011/11/07/a33435bab15efa5e13eff363bb2b6fd9.png
http://i2.imageban.ru/out/2011/11/07/41113bd0cb80a7e6c9cf9546c8950d1a.png

Also you should switch audio processing only in full screen mode.


Does the potplayer decoder use the GPU for decoding?



Yes it does. Potplayer decoder with "DXVA without rendering" option turned on can use hardware accelerated playback with madVR. Mostly I use CUDA decoders, but for ATI users that can be an option. I've tried Cyberlink(HAM), another decoder which supports hardware accelerated video decoding with madVR, works fine, but madVR deinterlacing is not working.

[noee]

So nothing for me to worry about?

At this point, it seems that Windowed Mode just doesn't kick the thing into gear, so to speak. Everything works and looks great in FSE mode (higher clocks), but Windowed mode doesn't. I'm really not sure what's going on here all of a sudden. I tried the "profile trick" mentioned above, that had no effect. I'm on the 11.10 drivers and I'm going to try locking the clocks to see what happens.

[robpdotcom]

Why 10.11 drivers? Did you mean 11.10? I'm already using 11.10 which are the latest non-beta.

I was having the same issue as you on my 5750 - the deinterlaced video simply was not smooth. 10.11 was the newest driver that worked for me. Then, there's this:

According to some users on AVSForum for instance, 10.12 was the latest stable and usable AMD driver. That was the version where you could choose between CCC and the new interface. I have that one installed, chose the new interface. And i use Realtek's ATI HDMI driver. All is fine since, and i have never updated till now, since i see no reason for it and there are now important features added or important bugs removed since then. They only seem to work on game related stuff that doesn't interest me.

My HD5770 has worked like a charm with this driver, so im not eager to upgrade :-)

For me, 10.12 had the same problem as the newer drivers, but 10.11 was perfect. And like GMC said, most changes to drivers are game related, so unless you play games, you probably don't need the newer drivers.

Also, using the revamped CCC had problems for me - one being that it wasn't showing the option to change the dynamic range to 16-255 (limited), as well as a lot of other options in the video "enhancements" menu. 10.11 with the old CCC has no problems, so I'll stick with that. I am, however, using the latest AMD HDMI audio driver - the older versions had issues with outputting Windows sounds (such as the sound you get when you click on a folder).

So now madVR looks just as well as EVR? Can I still have a sample of your tennis video, for testing purposes?

It's just as smooth as EVR; but it's madVR, so it's even better.;)

Here's the sample. If you want more, just ask - I have lots of them.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8B8J23RO

[markanini]

Seems to work mostly as intended for Intel HD3000 but I've only tested with a MPEG2 60i SD source so far, MPC-HC DXVA decoder used.
Some unexpected behavior: When i hit ctrl+shift+alt+d I see no combing yet the annotation says de-interlacing is off.

[mr.duck]

Some unexpected behavior: When i hit ctrl+shift+alt+d I see no combing yet the annotation says de-interlacing is off.

- TV is doing the deinterlacing?
- Source video, despite being 60i, is not really interlaced (i.e. both fields have no temporal differences between them)?

[namaiki]

MPC-HC DXVA decoder used

Is it really being used? I suspect MPC-HC's internal software decoder which does some deinterlacing by itself might be being used (check the Play-> Filters menu).

[nevcairiel]

This resulted in both madVR and LAV CUVID having about the same GPU load ~80% while EVR was around 50%.


EVR might be cheating. It has some auto-magic to reduce deinterlacing quality when it notices your GPU is hitting its limits. It sadly doesn't let you know when it does it.

[mr.duck]

EVR might be cheating. It has some auto-magic to reduce deinterlacing quality when it notices your GPU is hitting its limits. It sadly doesn't let you know when it does it.

It's done in the driver. For Radeons, it's an option called 'enforce smooth video playback' or similar. Turn that off and it wont down grade the deinterlacing.

[nevcairiel]

It's done in the driver. For Radeons, it's an option called 'enforce smooth video playback' or similar. Turn that off and it wont down grade the deinterlacing.

No, thats not it. EVR has the same functionality, it can go down from 50/60p output to 25/30p, as well as use a different algorithm if the driver offers one.

The ESVP option is not done at runtime, afaik, its only decided based on your GPU which algorithms are active - not if it actually manages to do it, just if a developer thought it would.
Note that the EVR option is not always 100% successfull, especially if the driver forces some options to be active.

[markanini]

- TV is doing the deinterlacing?
- Source video, despite being 60i, is not really interlaced (i.e. both fields have no temporal differences between them)?
No, I'm viewing through a computer monitor. Just tried FFDShow for decoding and the behaviour is unchanged and futher motion is very jumpy regardless of field order setting via ctrl+alt+shift+f.

Is it really being used? I suspect MPC-HC's internal software decoder which does some deinterlacing by itself might be being used (check the Play-> Filters menu).
Yes it was really used per Play>Filters. BTW how do activate the Intel decoder? I ticked the boxes in MadVR setting and added the seperate dll to the MadVR folder.

EDIT:Tried MPCHC decoder again and noticed motion became jumpy after cyling de-interlace on and off.

[pankov]

EVR might be cheating. It has some auto-magic to reduce deinterlacing quality when it notices your GPU is hitting its limits. It sadly doesn't let you know when it does it.
I doubt that's the case.
It looks perfect both with test samples from AVS and with live sports. It's the same quality wise as madVR and LAV CUVID with High-Quality Processing turned on.
The load difference is similar if use lighter samples which leave a lot of headroom on my video card.
Nev, you are using a pretty decent NVIDIA card, right? Do you see the same performance difference?

[whitestar999]

i am having an unusual problem.some 1080p videos run fine on my laptop c2d 2ghz mobilty radeon 4570 with screen resolution 1366*768(60hz) but when i try to run the same video from laptop through hdmi on a 1080p(60hz) LG LCD TV there video lags with frames dropping continuously.backbuffer & render queue are almost always 1-3/8 while decoder & other queue are full.as i understand playing 1080p video on a 1080p screen should be the easiest case scenario or am i missing something.

[namaiki]

whitestar999: How much video ram does your card have? Also, if you make the video window smaller while connected to the 1080p screen, does it still lag? Try check with GPU-z or similar program if the GPU core or memory is being maxed out.

[whitestar999]

@namaiki,card ram is 256mb & yes there is a difference when i make video window smaller.gpu-z shows card load at ~70% when window is resized to ~480*360.how can i see the gpu-z window in full screen video playing?

[namaiki]

You could try put GPU-z on the other monitor or only just maximize the player window instead of fullscreen. Have you checked if the GPU clocks are at full speed?
256MB is just on the limit. My computer with a 9600M GT 256MB before it died was only just enough for madVR at 1920x1080 30fps.

[cyberbeing]

how can i see the gpu-z window in full screen video playing?

You don't need to see it, just enable 'log to file' and 'continue refreshing'.

[diizzy]

Thanks for all the hard work you've been putting into madVR, I do seem (?) to have some issues with the new DXVA2 deinterlacing feature.

At least on Intel HD Graphics (1st gen Core iX-CPUs) it doesn't seem to work at all, it just says "deinterlacing failed". It does work with Microsofts DTV filter on the other hand...
While I do realise that I have hardly the most optimal hardware for madVR I have to say that it works pretty well with some minor adjustments and doesn't provide slideshow performance when going above 1920x1080 which EVR CP and other renders do (1920x1200 makes it crawl for some reason).
If you want me to do some kind of debugging please let me know.

As for the posts above at least on this computer windowed mode needs much more processing power when exclusive (full screen mode), I do need to adjust the scaling algorithms somewhat otherwise I get noticable frame drops even in exclusive mode. Using Softcubic as algorithm instead of lanczos (default) seems to do the trick on my "low-end" GPU at least so it may be worth a try. I'm sure madshi can provide information on which algorithms requires less processing power than others.

Best regards,
Danne

[namaiki]

Log for "deinterlacing failed" message on Intel HD graphics: http://www.mediafire.com/?n8o0jz0umd4xqw1

[nevcairiel]

Curious, it says "VideoProcessBlt failed (8007000e)", and thats the HRESULT for Out of Memory. How much memory did you allocate your IGP?

[namaiki]

Curious, it says "VideoProcessBlt failed (8007000e)", and thats the HRESULT for Out of Memory. How much memory did you allocate your IGP?

It's automatically allocated by the driver or something else. dxdiag reports a ridiculous 1760MB.

[Mixer73]

I've just tried to use madVR with PotPlayer and LAVFilters, and its doing the strangest thing... Win7 64bit, 32bit apps, Nvidia GTX260 card...

PotP with LAV and EVR CP works nice, but if I select madVR as renderer I just get audio and no decoder is loaded. All colourspaces seem to be ticked in LAV, and I tried some other settings in there... What am I missing?

[whitestar999]

@namaiki,i tried the same video in a smaller window with no frame drops & continuous frame drops in full screen on 1080p screen.in both cases avg gpu usage was ~65% with max at 74%.is this because of 256mb card ram then?

[namaiki]

Are there frame drops if the media player window is maximized, but madvr is not in full screen?

[whitestar999]

by full screen i meant playback & not exclusive mode.though even in windowed mode with media player window maximized frame drop problem is still there.in fact my gpu usage touched 80% in this case while in full screen using windowed mode gpu-z log show max usage ~75%.

[namaiki]

Did you already check that GPU clocks are at stock speed and not still in low power mode? Otherwise I think you might need to change resizing algorithm that madVR is using. Which of those are you currently using?

It seems that the Mobility Radeon 4570 is quite a bit weaker than the 9600M GT. Maybe it's simply not powerful enough? :/

[diizzy]

FWIW, mine reports 1696Mb and GPU-Z reports about 380Mb of memory usage running madVR and a 1080p clip.
The driver itself seems to do allocating nowdays just as namaiki reported.

@ namaiki and whitestar999

A friend of mine told me that he got very choppy playback using madVR (1080p clip) on a C2D E5***-series and a Radeon 4770 which I honestly find odd since my Intel HD Graphics is much slower.
Haven't been able to have a look at it myself though.

//Danne

[Tummen]

I also had issues when playing back on my new 1080p projector. Using JRMC, video was unwatchable on the projector (HDMI), but played well on my 1360x768 LCD screen (connected through VGA). Tried both 24 and 60Hz on the projector. Stuttered even when video was in a window, on both 720p and 1080p files. Then I went into the MadVR settings and enabled decoding, stuttering gone and perfectly smooth playback, even with 3840x1080p side-by-side files :)

Could not get smooth playback with other renderers (although somewhat watchable but irritating), probably because if I select 23Hz in CCC, it switches back to 24Hz.

Using Intel Core2Duo E6300@2.6GHz and HIS Radeon HD6850 1GB video card.

Question: Will DXVA ever work with MadVR? Saw it was asked a while ago, but couldn't find an answer...

[whitestar999]

Did you already check that GPU clocks are at stock speed and not still in low power mode? Otherwise I think you might need to change resizing algorithm that madVR is using. Which of those are you currently using?

It seems that the Mobility Radeon 4570 is quite a bit weaker than the 9600M GT. Maybe it's simply not powerful enough? :/

yes gpu clocks are at stock speeds.as for resize algorithm why it should even have any effect when source video as well as screen resolution are same i don't understand.right now i use lanzcos 3 taps for upsampling & bicubic for downsampling.since gpu load does not cross 75% i don't think resizing is the reason.i found this on notebookcheck:
A speciality of the Radeon HD 4570 is the possibility to use ordinary DDR2 and DDR3 graphic memory (as a cheaper alternative to GDDR3). However, cards that use that kind of memory will be slower than others equipped with GDDR RAM.
i think this may be the reason but still it never came to my mind that graphics card memory plays such an important role even when playing 1080p video on a 1080p screen.i am still not sure about this.

edit:forgot to mention it before but when playing video in a small window using madvr windowed mode the backbuffer & render queue are full as they should be.

[StrifeLeonhart]

Hi madshi,

I report this bug (if its a bug that is) that when i use madVR and try to pause anime with mouse click in MPC-HC the subtitles dont seem to pause somtimes,
but when i press on Backspace to pause it does pause the subtitles.

[nand chan]

Haha. You seem to have missed that left clicking shows a different context menu than right clicking... ;)

Interesting. Any reason it's this way? I find left clicking to be highly unintuitive compared to right clicking and I would greatly prefer right clicking.

[mr.duck]

The ESVP option is not done at runtime, afaik, its only decided based on your GPU which algorithms are active - not if it actually manages to do it, just if a developer thought it would.
This part is true. It depends on video resolution and takes into account any 'enhancements' that are activated too.


I didn't know EVR could downgrade image quality. First I've heard about it.

[jdl]

What's the current recommendation for video playback hardware with MadVR? I currently have an ATI 5450 and older Intel 6600 dual core CPU, this is good enough for the majority of material (mainly HD), only the highest bitrate stuff causes some drops. I'm looking to build a 2nd HTPC for another display and thinking of re-using the 5450 there and upgrading the main HTPC in the theater room. Seems like both ATI and nVidia have pluses and minuses (as always). Are any of the new integrated Intel graphics worthy of consideration? Running Win7, and mostly HD material, not even sure MadVR is really needed, but I do like to go for the best solution even if it's not something I can really notice. :-) Thanks for any advice.

[whitestar999]

forget intel if you are looking for best quality.between nvidia & ati,ati has more out of the box compatibilty.nvidia right now suffers from the mismatch in refresh rate desired & actually achieved & that is why if you intend to use nvidia learning about creating custom resolution is must.right now though nvidia has a slight edge when it comes to interlaced material but from v0.78 madeshi has introduced DXVA(not the video acceleration)based deinterlacing which can be used with ati cards too.i am hoping that with next 2-3 versions after most of the deinterlacing issues sorted out ati cards will be as good as nvidia now.

btw intel cpu's including sandybridges are the worst when it comes to achieving exact refresh rate.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the-sandy-bridge-review-intel-core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/7

[cremor]

Weird. Can anybody reproduce this (disappearing subtitles when pausing playback) problem?

I just managed to reproduce the disappearing subtitles multiple times, sadly I only tested windowed mode there.

After restarting the player to also test fullscreen exclusive mode I couldn't reproduce it any more (neither windowed nor exclusive). The only thing I could think of that was different the first time is that Reclock was still doing its measurements (red/green switching icon). But why should Reclock cause the subtitles to disappear? Maybe the bug happens just extremly random.

Although I found one thing: The subtitles disappear in fullscreen exclusive mode as soon as the seek bar is shown. But I assume this is by design like with shown stats?

Software: MPC-HC 1.5.2.3456, LAV Splitter/Video/Audio 0.38, madVR 0.78, Reclock 1.8.7.7. No other things in the filter menu.

PS: Will deliver my promised deinterlacing findings tomorrow. Couldn't find time for testing today. But they are all done with the files from here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1157287), do these work for you?

[Andy o]

between nvidia & ati,ati has more out of the box compatibilty.nvidia right now suffers from the mismatch in refresh rate desired & actually achieved & that is why if you intend to use nvidia learning about creating custom resolution is must.[/url]

This is not true, it's not a "must" and hasn't been for a long time now. You can easily decode and use ReClock. If anything, custom resolutions can complicate things or even mess things up (IIRC there was a full/limited issue) if you don't know exactly what you're doing.

[fairchild]

Thanks for the new version and working DXVA2 deinterlacing on my ATI card with MadVR ftw! I have a quick question, is it ok to set the following options as enabled in the Video Settings for ATI cards: Use automatic deinterlacing and Pulldown detection

Are those 2 settings ok to use and have the best deinterlacing possible or should I set it manually to Vector Adaptive and/or disable Pulldown detection?

Thanks again madshi!

[Hypernova]

Weird. Can anybody reproduce this (disappearing subtitles when pausing playback) problem?

I can reproduce this problem. In my testing, subtitle will disappear in a short time when paused for the first time since seeking. Next pauses will be fine.

[whitestar999]

This is not true, it's not a "must" and hasn't been for a long time now. You can easily decode and use ReClock. If anything, custom resolutions can complicate things or even mess things up (IIRC there was a full/limited issue) if you don't know exactly what you're doing.

if this is true then it seems that i am reading a lot of things wrong these days but anyway i would still wait for an expert like nevcairiel to confirm this.:cool:

[nevcairiel]

reclock can fix slight refresh rate mismatches quite easily. You only have to give up bitstreaming.

Its of course still better to get as close as you can get.

[SamuriHL]

Right. I use a combination of custom res and the video clocking functionality of JRiver MC17 and it's as smooth as can be. But as Nev points out, if you want to use a ReClock type of functionality, you need to decode audio to PCM. Not a big problem if using LAV Audio with ArcSoft's DTS decoder. madVR has no problems at all with that kind of set up and works VERY well.

[MasterNobody]

madshi
Hi. Any ideas why this sample (http://www.mediafire.com/?x2h4b6zjv98ej33) displayed with green bar at the bottom with default MadVR settings until I enable "use managed upload textures (XP only)"?
http://i42.tinypic.com/6plpjq.png

Soft:
MadVR v0.78
LAV Video v0.39 (prefered in MPC-HC external filters)
MPC-HC v1.5.3.3677
Windows XP SP3
NVIDIA Drivers 260.99

P.S. With internal MadVR H.264 decoding it is ok even without "use managed upload textures (XP only)".

[JarrettH]

How do you read the Decoder Queue, Upload Queue, Render Queue, and Present Queue in the statistics? :thanks:

I'm assuming it's showing how full it is...err so what part or parts of the system might it refer to?

[Andy o]

reclock can fix slight refresh rate mismatches quite easily. You only have to give up bitstreaming.

Its of course still better to get as close as you can get.

It's only better if the difference is so much that you can tell the pitch or speed difference though, as in 24 vs 25. I don't get why it would be better to play for instance 23.976 content at 23.980, than at any other rate between 23.970 or 24.01 like you can easily get with any of these cards.

[Andy o]

Anyone knows where I can get an interlaced gradient test to see if I'll get banding with the AMD settings?

madshi, I found out why I thought 0-255 was the correct setting, it seems whatever is set on the AMD control panel will be the "correct" setting when I open MPC-HC. If I open it while I got 0-255 already set, that will be correct, and changing to 16-235 while the video is playing will get me gray blacks, and vice versa. Still using 11.10 drivers, haven't tried rolling back or switching to NV yet.

[cremor]

I've aborted my deinterlacing tests for now because it seems that 0.78 broke windowed mode for me, even with progressive video.

The files 3, 4, 5 and 6 from here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=159486) and the "WipEout HD Trailer" (MKV, H.264, 1080p59, 170 MB) and "Devil May Cry Gameplay" (WMV, VC-1, 1080p59, 266 MB) for which I can't find download links right now give me many dropped and delayed frames each second in windowed mode. Going back to madVR 0.77 and everything is fine again. Fullscreen exclusive mode works fine in both versions.

All files are correctly identified as progressive. Also disabling deinterlacing in the settings has no affect.
The only thing that they have in common is a frame rate of 59 fps. Maybe the new version has problems with that high frame rates?

Queues with 0.78:
Decoder 11-12/12
Upload 6-8/8
Render 1-2/8
Backbuffer 0-1/3
Dropped and delayed frames raising every second.
All queues are exactly the same for all proplematic files. And they also never change after the first second for the whole file.

Queues with 0.77:
Decoder 7-8/8
Upload 7-8/8
Render between 3-5 and 6-8/8
Backbuffer 2-3/3
No dropped or delayed frames at all.

Fullscreen exclusive mode queues are always full in both versions. Also no dropped/delayed/glitched frames in fullscreen mode.


Software:
Win7 x64 SP1, Catalyst 11.10, MPC-HC 1.5.2.3456, LAV Splitter/Video/Audio 0.39, madVR 0.78/0.77, Reclock 1.8.7.7. No other things in the filter menu except WMAudio/Video Decoder WMO for the Devil May Cry video.

Hardware:
Intel Core i7 @ 3,3 GHz, AMD Radeon HD6870 1 GB, display 1920x1080 @ 120/100 Hz (depending on video frame rate)

madVR settings:
Everything reset to default and then only enabled "delay playback start until render queue is full".

[jmonier]

I've also seen the same thing with a Nvidia 465. I've also had this same problem using LAV CUVID with earlier madVR versions. Everything is OK in full-screen exclusive.

[Skwelcha]

Have the same problem, in windows mode, every video file drops frames constantly, in Exclusive mode almost none.

[jdl]

Thanks, sounds like I should just stick with ATI then. Would a 6XXX series card be any better than the 5450?

[whitestar999]

now that madeshi has introduced deinterlacing option for ati cards too getting a fast card is better.ati 6xxx series is good as well as more power efficient.6570 is a good card for htpc setup & available for $70 on newegg.