madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[scoz]

Just to let you all know, that after invidual communication with madshi, clsid and tetsuo55 we came to an conclusion, that the wrong timed appearing and disappearing of ffdshow subtitles in madvr setup in MPC-HC has its reason in one of the old and still non-resolved VC-1 bugs described already here:
http://c-a376e655.024-44-73746f50.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se/showthread.php?p=1236128#post1236128

The key bug is in the MPC HC m2ts splitter, not handling VC-1 correctly, producing garbled timestamps.The subtitle flickering is probably a follow up problem. Most probably the subtitle renderer is confused by the garbled timestamps.

I have tried the newcairels LAVFSplitter and although not all VC-1 videos did work well ( will report this on the thread later ), the timing of the subtitles using VC-1 videos was correct.
Pluto

Does VSFilter work? I thought the ffdsubtitles were an older version basically and that vsfilter was better at rendering them? (Not asking sarcastically, I'm just not 100% sure my information is correct)

[jmone]

madshi - firstly, thanks for the work with JR Media Center! It is fantastic!

Appologies for a couple of Newbie Q's (Win7 32-Bit, ATI HD5450, HDMI Out to Pio TV, JR Media Center for File Playback and TMT5 for Blu-ray disc playback):
1) Pixel Format: I currently have CCC set to RGB 4:4:4 Limited and have set madVR to the Limited TV Range for the Pio TV. Is this the "prefered" setting (given I need to have a setting that works for TMT's renderer as well)
2) Reclock: I have this running and doing it's thing at it is GREEN, yet madVR's OSD is showing for 23.976 playback:
- Display 24.00248hz
- Clock Deviation 0.04047%
- 1 Frame Repeat Every 59.7 sec
3) 3DULT: At this stage I'm not interest in editing the file. I see it is unchecked as a default, is there any benefit to have it checked or unchecked>

[scoz]

1) Pixel Format: I currently have CCC set to RGB 4:4:4 Limited and have set madVR to the Limited TV Range for the Pio TV. Is this the "prefered" setting (given I need to have a setting that works for TMT's renderer as well)
I think when you set it to 4:4:4 limited the graphics card is taking PC values and squishing them in to video. Full range outputs the data untouched(as long as you don't have other settings). When using limited you would want madvr set to PC levels. So when you watch a video it would be (source)16-235 -> (madvr) 0-255 -> (gpu) 16-235.

The best setting with no other factors for any display is outputting full range, as this leaves the data untouched, and the GPU will have a cheaper less quality pc->video conversion you want to avoid. Then select the correct video/pc levels in madvr.

I'm not sure about TMT but if its forcing you to use limited then it is taking video levels and expanding them to pc, which I assume there is a setting somewhere to just let it output video levels, which is what the source is.

2) Reclock: I have this running and doing it's thing at it is GREEN, yet madVR's OSD is showing for 23.976 playback:
- Display 24.00248hz
- Clock Deviation 0.04047%
- 1 Frame Repeat Every 59.7 sec
Check and see if you are actually dropping frames. Most of that OSD stuff is just calculated and displayed for your reference, but doesn't actually reflect madvr's actual stats. The delayed/dropped frame count is what is accurate.

[jmone]

Thanks for the feeback scoz, but is not the chain on a:
1) AV CE Setup: source material (16-235) --> madVR (16-235) --> Video Driver eg CCC (16-235) --> HDMI (16-235) --> Receiver (16-235) --> TV (16-235)
2) PC Setup: source material (16-235) --> madVR (0-255) --> Video Driver eg CCC (0-255) --> HDMI (0-255) --> Monitor (0-255)

This is all a black art to me so any confirmation / explanation to set me right would be appreciated! :)

Check and see if you are actually dropping frames. Most of that OSD stuff is just calculated and displayed for your reference, but doesn't actually reflect madvr's actual stats. The delayed/dropped frame count is what is accurate.

Good to hear as accroding to my eyes and the OSD I'm not dropping or delaying any frames on 23.976 material :) . Unfortuanly my HD5450 (only 80 shaders) may not be up to the task as I can drop a dozen frames a second of 50hz material and CCC is reporting the GPU is gitting 90% on some material. Until I work out a cool passive card with more grunt what are the best settings to "turn off / down" from default on this box.

Thanks
Nathan

[scoz]

Thanks for the feeback scoz, but is not the chain on a:
1) AV CE Setup: source material (16-235) --> madVR (16-235) --> Video Driver eg CCC (16-235) --> HDMI (16-235) --> Receiver (16-235) --> TV (16-235)
2) PC Setup: source material (16-235) --> madVR (0-255) --> Video Driver eg CCC (0-255) --> HDMI (0-255) --> Monitor (0-255)

This is all a black art to me so any confirmation / explanation to set me right would be appreciated! :)

I'm pretty sure basically the limited pixel format setting just means the gpu is taking its PC input from the OS and squishing it in to video. This is the setting you would use to make the UI and games and such look better on a tv as those are normally designed with PC levels in mind. Since your watching video levels you will want the full range format so that the gpu doesn't perform any conversion.

[Plutotype]

Does VSFilter work? I thought the ffdsubtitles were an older version basically and that vsfilter was better at rendering them? (Not asking sarcastically, I'm just not 100% sure my information is correct)

The described issue was the same with VSFilter ( DirectVobSub ). If you have wrong timing at the splitter, the "added" subtitles from whatever directshow subtitle filter will be garbled. In my experience, the subtitiles from ffdshow were more pretty on Full HD TV - there is a "blur" option, which at "strong" setting makes the ffdshow subtitles look warm ( very close to int mpc-hc subs )

Im doing some test using MPC-HC internal splitter and LAVFsplitter today and need to say - its a mess to get it right. My target is to have one splitter for all, but MPC-HC has the described issues with VC-1 streams and LAVFsplitter does not "read" PGS subtitles and LPCM audio yet ( correct me if Im wrong ).

[jmone]

Any recomendations on the minimum Shaders / Texture Units I need for stable 50hz material playback? My Passive HD5450 in my Shuttle SG45H7 HTPC (it only has 80 shaders and 8 texture units) drops frames badly on 50hz material (but is perfect on 23.976 material. Also changing to Bilinear for now has really helped on this card), I'd prefer to stick with ATI at this stage:
- ATI HD5450: 80 Shaders, 8 Texture Units, 39watts max (** this is the card in my HTPC PC and I drop frames in 50hz material with MadVR)
- ATI HD5550: 320 Shaders, 16 Texture Units, 39watts max
- ATI HD5570: 400 Shaders, 20 Texture Units, 39watts max
- ATI HD5670: 400 Shaders, 20 Texture Units, 64watts max
- ATI HD5750: 720 Shaders, 36 Texture Units, 86watts max
- ATI HD5770: 800 Shaders, 40 Texture Units, 108watts max (** this is the card in my Destop PC and I have no probs at all with MadVR)

Thanks
Nathan

[Mangix]

a 5670 should do well enough. i have a gt 240(slightly weaker than a 5670) and it plays fine.

[yesgrey]

Any recomendations on the minimum Shaders / Texture Units I need for stable 50hz material playback?
a 5670 should do well enough. i have a gt 240(slightly weaker than a 5670) and it plays fine.
Yes, the 5670 should be fine, and even the 5570 DDR5 should be fine, but if you can afford it go the higher you can and find reasonable, because as madshi already told several times you might need it for future features.;)

[hdboy]

Is it possible to add support for subtitle? I know I can use directvobsub but it's much easier to se MPC's internal subtitle as you can toggle and switch subtitle with keyboard shortcuts.

[jmone]

For me it is the balance of getting the best I can from madVR that will actually fit into the Shuttle, not blow it's 300w PSU or create too much heat, and be silent. Somthing like this "Asus ATI EAH5570 Silent" may just work http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=NgyhGji4qX6FpFiO&templete=2

[adam777]

Is it possible to add support for subtitle? I know I can use directvobsub but it's much easier to se MPC's internal subtitle as you can toggle and switch subtitle with keyboard shortcuts.

The question was asked many times, madshi said (much) more than once, it's on the to-do list.

[namaiki]

I can switch subtitle tracks in MPC-HC when using DirectVobSub by pressing the 's' key.

[Plutotype]

Hi all,

I have question regarding best settings in madvr. Is there any way to change something here to get more from the renderer? I prefer natural sharpness ( older movies suffer at very high sharpness settings ).

Chroma upsampling: softcubic, softness 80
Luma upscaling: spline 4taps
Luma Downscaling:spline 4taps

Windowed mode tweaks - default
trade quality for performance - nothing checked

And should I enable current 3dlut? When a ordinary human reads the madvr thread, there is no simple explanation, what additional value brings 3dlut to the renderer...

I run Sony Bravia EX500, win7, HD5670 ( nov 2010 Catalyst ), i7980x 6GB Ram. I keep my HD movies in untouched format.

Thanks and Regards
Peter

[FarQueue]

Anyone else not able to play VOB files with madVR and the latest MPC-HC?

http://i55.tinypic.com/2wrmexl.png

That's the error I get.

I know you can't open DVDs with madVR, but I used to be able to play the individual VOB files.

It only started happening after I upgraded from a fairly old MPC-HC to the latest version. Everything is fine using EVR.

[namaiki]

What resolution is the video in the vob file?

[FarQueue]

What resolution is the video in the vob file?

720x576.

[namaiki]

Does that particular file work without issue if you revert back to the older build of MPC-HC?

[yesgrey]

Somthing like this "Asus ATI EAH5570 Silent" may just work http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=NgyhGji4qX6FpFiO&templete=2
I wouldn't go for that, it has DDR2 memory.

madshi told several times that madVR is more memory speed bounded than gpu speed bounded, so with that card you may find yourself in a situation where you have lots of gpu power but your memory speed don't let you use it. Look for the DDR5 memory version, you won't regret it. If you find them too noisy you could always buy later a better heatsink for it.
Here is a link for one with DDR5 memory:
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3507#sp

Look and compare the memory clocks of the one you linked(DDR2) vs the DDR5 version. With the DDR5 version you would get > 4x the memory bandwidth.;)

[FarQueue]

Does that particular file work without issue if you revert back to the older build of MPC-HC?

Yes, and I've tried with VOB files from a few different DVDs (all the same resolution).

[namaiki]

Yes, and I've tried with VOB files from a few different DVDs (all the same resolution).

What is the build number of the old and the new MPC-HC that you are using?

[namaiki]

With 2499 it seems to play without issue *if* I load the DVD in MPC-HC via View-> Open DVD. Otherwise I get the same crash. Fine in MPC-HC 1249. :/

Seems to be MPC-HC's internal MPEG-2 filter.

[FarQueue]

What is the build number of the old and the new MPC-HC that you are using?

1613 and 2815.

From http://www.xvidvideo.ru/

[madshi]

Thanks madshi, well I want one taskbar, either the mpc one or the madvr one. It doesn't matter to me.

Unfortunately

1) The madvr one doesn't work.... I primarily am watching blu-rays with multi m2ts files involved so some sort of workaround would be needed here between madvr and software players to allow its seekbar to work correctly.
I understand. Maybe there'll be a solution to this sooner or later, not sure. Do you happen to know which MPC HC dev has implemented the multi m2ts files solution?

Well even with the 3 second delay, madvr seems to lose fullscreen exclusive mode when I hover down over the mpc menu (expected), but then immediately madVR is going into fullscreen exclusive, its not waiting 3 seconds, ie its not giving me a chance to use mpc-hcs seekbar.
I don't really understand what you mean. Can you describe in more details which steps you're taking exactly and how madVR reacts and how you thought madVR should react?

Yes I also have the problem where the right click on the screen when in exclusive mode, and when the 3 seconds delay isn't used, I can never use the right click menu. Can madVR listen for right clicks and always have some sort of delay even when the option for the delay is disabled?
The default configuration waits for 3 seconds and that is the recommended solution. Disable the 3d second delay on your own risk. Implementing funny behaviour when the madVR rendering surface is right clicked might not make too much sense because there's no guarantee that every media player will open a context menu as a result. You can probably reconfigure media players to do something else instead.

I'm curious: with version 0.35+, why does the screen flash so many times when opening and closing a video with MPC? With 0.34 it was a 2-3 times; now it's like 6.
The screen flashes? What do you mean exactly? It doesn't flash for me.

Thanks for your comment, I have checked the OSD but in my system, madVR never switches to FSE when using "Larger" text. I'm running Windows 7 in 1920x1080. Tried with both KMPlayer and MPC HC...
Can I have a log? As small as possible, please.

I'm using madVR v3.6 on Windows 7 x64 with the latest MPC-HC MSVC 2010 and latest ffdshow and I get substantial frame dropping if I pause a video and play it back again after more than 1-2 minutes. The only way to stop the frame dropping is to restart the file.
Can I have a log? As small as possible, please. Meaning: Pause quickly, then after you unpause, let the problem appear for maybe 5-10 seconds, then close MPC HC.

Flush & wait (sleep) was only on "after last render step". Changing it to flush didn't help. I've tried changing all to flush, but it was worse. The best performance by far is with all set to "flush & wait (loop)", but it's still a bit slower than windowed mode with default settings.

I've tried cleaning the database several times, but it didn't help. It's strange how everything is reported to be perfect, but the strange skipping comes up in a regular interval.
Well, maybe the final exclusive mode rendering path will solve this.

MadShi: 0.36 is really stable for me... and i have ONLY tested this version with default settings on my setup... but 0.34, 0.33 was never stable for me... but i did not change anything in settings on any of versions ... all default. (0.34, 0.33, 0.34, 0.35, 0.36)
I've had nothing but trouble with the last few versions (running fullscreen windowed, as exclusive won't work on an interlaced res). I'd even reverted to v0.18.

But 0.36 is rock solid. It "feels smooth" again. I'm using the default flush settings.
Glad to hear that!

It seems to be related with the Release version. The Debug version rarely stalls, but the release version is very bad. Would it be a compiler bug? Could you try different optimization settings or a different compiler?
The "debug" version does not use any different compiler settings to the "release" version. The only difference between the 2 versions is that the "debug" version has some extra code in it to create the log file. That's it.

Still having a stutter/frame drops on return from pause after 5 mins or so. No way to fix it but restart the file. Don't know what to do :(

EDIT: Never mind, I just switched to Exclusive mode and everything is smoooooooth. :)
So the stutter/frame drop problem does not occur in exclusive mode? Would still like to see a log from windowed mode.

On a side note, what exactly is the down side to using exclusive mode besides all the gui related stuff?
If it works for you, there's no downside (other than the GUI related stuff), that I'm aware of.

TL;DR - Solved my sound problems and sync issues
How exactly? What caused the sync issues?

2) Reclock: I have this running and doing it's thing at it is GREEN, yet madVR's OSD is showing for 23.976 playback:
- Display 24.00248hz
- Clock Deviation 0.04047%
- 1 Frame Repeat Every 59.7 sec
The clock deviation measurement needs time to settle down. Is this data from the beginning of a movie playback session? Give it half an hour of uninterrupted playback, then check the OSD (without pausing playback!). With Reclock enabled (and resampling active), frame drops are not expected, and madVR should in theory also show that in the OSD.

I have question regarding best settings in madvr. Is there any way to change something here to get more from the renderer? I prefer natural sharpness ( older movies suffer at very high sharpness settings ).

Chroma upsampling: softcubic, softness 80
Luma upscaling: spline 4taps
Luma Downscaling:spline 4taps

Windowed mode tweaks - default
trade quality for performance - nothing checked
If the default values for "tweaks" work for you (meaning: smooth playback) there's no reason to change them. The "trade quality" options are only useful to make very slow GPUs work at all. If your GPU is fast enough, don't use them. The scaling algorithms are a matter of taste. Just try them out and compare them yourself and pick the algorithms which look subjectively best for you. Every algorithm has strengths and weaknesses, so there's no clear "best" solution.

3) 3DULT: At this stage I'm not interest in editing the file. I see it is unchecked as a default, is there any benefit to have it checked or unchecked>
And should I enable current 3dlut? When a ordinary human reads the madvr thread, there is no simple explanation, what additional value brings 3dlut to the renderer...
The main purpose of the 3dlut is to allow calibration of your monitor/display, in case you have your own meter. If you don't have a meter, the 3dlut can in the current madVR version still have benefits. E.g. DVDs are supposed to be watched on a display which is calibrated to BT.601, while Blu-Rays are supposed to be watched on a display which is calibrated to BT.709. Most displays can't be switched between BT.601 and BT.709. So you could create a custom 3dlut which converts DVDs from BT.601 to BT.709. madVR currently can not do this conversion without a 3dlut.

1) Pixel Format: I currently have CCC set to RGB 4:4:4 Limited and have set madVR to the Limited TV Range for the Pio TV. Is this the "prefered" setting (given I need to have a setting that works for TMT's renderer as well)
I think when you set it to 4:4:4 limited the graphics card is taking PC values and squishing them in to video. Full range outputs the data untouched
Thanks for the feeback scoz, but is not the chain on a:
1) AV CE Setup: source material (16-235) --> madVR (16-235) --> Video Driver eg CCC (16-235) --> HDMI (16-235) --> Receiver (16-235) --> TV (16-235)
2) PC Setup: source material (16-235) --> madVR (0-255) --> Video Driver eg CCC (0-255) --> HDMI (0-255) --> Monitor (0-255)

This is all a black art to me so any confirmation / explanation to set me right would be appreciated! :)
scoz is correct. Let me explain in more detail:

When using madVR, the GPU thinks a game is running. Games *always* render black at 0 and white at 255. So the GPU offers you the option to either output the "madVR game" output untouched (0-255), or the GPU alternatively allows you to modify the madVR output behind madVR's back, so that madVR's 0 output becomes 16 and madVR's 255 output becomes 235. This is exactly what happens if you tell the GPU to output "RGB limited": the GPU stretches the madVR rendering output from 0-255 to 16-235. As you may be able to imagine, letting the GPU do violence to madVR's carefully rendered output behind madVR's back is not a good idea, if you care about max image quality.

The better solution is to let the GPU output 0-255 and to let madVR do all the remaining work. If you tell madVR to output video levels, madVR will render the video so that 16 is black and 235 is white. If you set madVR to video levels *and* tell the GPU to output "RGB limited", the GPU will do another conversion and convert madVR's 0 to 16 and madVR's 255 to 235. So basically this way you get a double stretch, which would be a catastrophe (washed out blacks and whites).

As a result: The best solution is to set the GPU to "RGB Full" and to let madVR output either video or PC levels (whatever your display needs).

Of course, if you set the GPU to "RGB Full" and tell madVR to output video levels, this might be problematic if you use your HTPC for other purposes besides madVR, too, because e.g. the Windows desktop will then render (and the GPU will output) black at 0, while your display expects black at 16. Personally, I've solved this by calibrating the display to PC levels. This way my computer always outputs everything (madVR, desktop, games, other renderers) with black at 0. Problem solved. And no image quality loss. The only requirement is that you're able to calibrate your display to PC levels.

Let me repeat: The GPU "RGB limited" output setting is a hack and not good for image quality. I wouldn't ever use this setting, if you can avoid it. That even applies to normal desktop use! If you e.g. watch a photo in a photo viewer application and the GPU stretches the carefully rendered photo behind the back of the photo viewer application (and Windows itself), image quality might suffer.

Any recomendations on the minimum Shaders / Texture Units I need for stable 50hz material playback? My Passive HD5450 in my Shuttle SG45H7 HTPC (it only has 80 shaders and 8 texture units) drops frames badly on 50hz material (but is perfect on 23.976 material. Also changing to Bilinear for now has really helped on this card), I'd prefer to stick with ATI at this stage
That's a pretty hard question for me to answer because I don't really know how much power future madVR versions will need. Furthermore, there's "math power" and "texture bandwidth". madVR needs both. Currently madVR needs more texture bandwidth than math power. But that might change (a bit) in future versions. My general recommendation is always to buy the most powerful GPU which fits your budget and your thermal/space constraints.

Of course another option is to buy something which works with the current madVR version and upgrade again in 1-2 years. ATI is doing a die shrink at the end of this year, IIRC, which should significantly raise the power per watt ratio.

Look and compare the memory clocks of the one you linked(DDR2) vs the DDR5 version. With the DDR5 version you would get > 4x the memory bandwidth.;)
Good advise!

Anyone else not able to play VOB files with madVR and the latest MPC-HC?
1613 and 2815.

From http://www.xvidvideo.ru/
Can anybody confirm/reproduce this?

[mark0077]

madshi, with "delay switch to exclusive mode by 3 seconds" enabled, and "show seek bar" disabled, and when i double click the mpc-hc window to make the window fullscreen, madVR immediately indicates its going to exclusive mode. There is no 3 second delay. Restarting mpc-hc has no effect.

This means that when I actually want to use the mpc-hc seekbar, and when I move the mouse to the bottom of the fullscreen window, the mpc-hc seekbar appears, but madVR seems to go immediately to exclusive fullscreen again. The 3 second delay isn't... well working at all for me. Again not a huge issue but if you want me to try anything let me know and I can do that.

mpc-hc 2820, madVR 0.36, Windows 7 64bit

[madshi]

with "delay switch to exclusive mode by 3 seconds" enabled, and "show seek bar" disabled, and when i double click the mpc-hc window to make the window fullscreen, madVR immediately indicates its going to exclusive mode. There is no 3 second delay.
Why would you want to have a 3 second delay in this specific situation? The 3 second delay is (intentionally) not applied when you go from non-fullscreen to fullscreen (i.e. when you "double click"). Originally I was using the 3 second delay in this specific situation, too, but I removed it (only for this specific situation) on request, because it doesn't seem to make much sense to wait 3 seconds in this situation.

This means that when I actually want to use the mpc-hc seekbar, and when I move the mouse to the bottom of the fullscreen window, the mpc-hc seekbar appears, but madVR seems to go immediately to exclusive fullscreen again.
This definitely does not happen for me. Can anybody reproduce this?

FWIW, what happens for me is that as long as the mouse stays inside of the MPC HC seekbar, madVR stays in windowed mode. However, as soon as the mouse leaves the seekbar, madVR immediately switches back to exclusive mode. The reason why no 3 second delay is applied here is that the seekbar actually reduces the madVR rendering window size. So when MPC HC removes the seekbar again, to madVR this looks just like the situation where you double click MPC HC to maximize.

Ah - wait! I guess when madVR switches to windowed mode, your mouse cursor moves to the middle of the screen? That would explain the problem! On my PC the mouse cursor doesn't do that.

You should still be able to seek by right clicking on madVR. This should activate the 3 second delay. If you afterwards move the mouse to the seekbar, the seekbar should stay active and madVR should stay in windowed mode.

[dansrfe]

Ok so here's the log for the massive frame-dropping I get. Here's what I did:

1) Start video.
2) Pause after ~500ms (immediately)
3) Did not touch window or anything for at least 5-8 mins.
4) Played video for 10 seconds, paused it again, then stopped it.

Log: http://www.mediafire.com/?cnewog37eoh7dhh

[cyberbeing]

This definitely does not happen for me. Can anybody reproduce this?

FWIW, what happens for me is that as long as the mouse stays inside of the MPC HC seekbar, madVR stays in windowed mode. However, as soon as the mouse leaves the seekbar, madVR immediately switches back to exclusive mode.
I see the same behavior as you do on WinXP x86 and Win7 x64.

Ah - wait! I guess when madVR switches to windowed mode, your mouse cursor moves to the middle of the screen?
mark007, if this is what is happening, what type of display setup are you running? Multi-monitor? TV-out? HDMI?

The only thing off the top of my head that would make the cursor center on the screen suddenly is the graphics card driver unloading and reloading (resetting). If you are running multi-monitor, it's probably a driver limitation on hardware accelerated D3D output on a secondary display? Do you have your TV connected as a secondary display?

[mark0077]

Using a gtx 295 outpouring to one tv via hdmi. If madvr can't control the fact that the mouse cursor gets set to centre On some settle. Seeking is going to be horribly cumbersome.

[cyberbeing]

Since you have a GTX 295, you probably have SLI enabled? Does disabling SLI fix it? Also out of curiosity, have you ever tried using the DVI port on the GTX 295 with a DVI->HDMI adapter or cable?

[yesgrey]

The "debug" version does not use any different compiler settings to the "release" version. The only difference between the 2 versions is that the "debug" version has some extra code in it to create the log file. That's it.
But those extra lines might avoid certain optimizations just by being there in the middle. Just guessing, but the real thing is that currently madVR is very annoying for day to day usage, because any small file I open it's really painful... When I watch an entire movie no problem, because it's just some seconds in 2 hours, but on other situations...:(
I also think that it might have something to do with multi-threading. I hope the final exclusive full screen mode fixes this for me...

[mark0077]

Since you have a GTX 295, you probably have SLI enabled? Does disabling SLI fix it? Also out of curiosity, have you ever tried using the DVI port on the GTX 295 with a DVI->HDMI adapter or cable?

Yes both return mouse to centre. From madvrs point of view it can't assume the mouse won't get reverted to centre so I'm not sure what the software solution is. All that I and others can do is perform workarounds here or there until some sOrt of elegant solution can be devised between madvr and software players perhaps.

[jmone]

Thanks Madshi, Scoz, Mangix, Yesgrey - I've ordered a 1GB version of the HD5670 with a quite fan that fits into my Shuttle and should play nice with madVR (http://www.guru3d.com/article/his-radeon-hd-5670-iceq-review/1). Once installed I'll reconfig CCC for Full.

The main purpose of the 3dlut is to allow calibration of your monitor/display, in case you have your own meter. If you don't have a meter, the 3dlut can in the current madVR version still have benefits. E.g. DVDs are supposed to be watched on a display which is calibrated to BT.601, while Blu-Rays are supposed to be watched on a display which is calibrated to BT.709. Most displays can't be switched between BT.601 and BT.709. So you could create a custom 3dlut which converts DVDs from BT.601 to BT.709. madVR currently can not do this conversion without a 3dlut.
This subject is like peeling an onion. Each time you think you get another layer understood, there is yet more to go! I had my Pio LX608a ISF Calibrated by a qualified tech a couple of years ago and while I have no idea if it was to BT.601 or BT.709, I presume it was to BT.601 as he used a signal generator / sensor on the TV then looked at the output from the HTPC (G33 I think at the time) using a DVD for the test patterns....and the tech was surprised that the G33 was pretty accurate (the other main input was the STB which was also pretty good). So if I understand it correctly, I now have 3 potential Video Renderers (madVR for files, EVR for DVD's, and TMT for Blu-ray/HD-DVD Disks) all putting out potentially different colour space to a TV that has been calibrated to one?

Thanks
Nathan

[scoz]

Yes both return mouse to centre. From madvrs point of view it can't assume the mouse won't get reverted to centre so I'm not sure what the software solution is. All that I and others can do is perform workarounds here or there until some sOrt of elegant solution can be devised between madvr and software players perhaps.

Are you using some sort of "Smart Move" setting for your mouse? I think its a setting available in windows, I know its also available in Logitech's mouse software.

[mark0077]

I have logitech software installed but don't use that feature, maybe others that have the issue could confirm if logitech software is the cause?

All I'm saying is alot of people seem to have the center mouse issue which I think the renderer / mpc-hc should be able to get around in future versions to make exclusive mode less painless and more seamless.

[jmone]

I've contacted the tech that did my ISF calibration reagrding the colour space and this was his response:

The plasma makes a decision to use 601 or 709 based on the resolution of the input signal. This affects the way in which the colours are decoded. In the case of your old Foxtel Signal which was passed through the receiver at 576i the plasma recognised this as a standard definition signal and treated it as 601. When you watched the HTPC through the same input at 1080p the plasma recognized this as a HD signal and treated it as 709. So in your case this is automatic and that is why you can simply attach your new fox HD box and the plasma will assume correctly 70-9 and the HTPC settings are correct.

I have been purely talking about the colour decoding in my above paragraph. 601 and 709 also specify Luminance and Colour for primary and secondary colors. The Pioneer plasma does not have a full CMS system and cannot be adjusted to compensate for the differences in 601 and 709 primarys/secondaries.
I am making a booking for a few weeks time to re-do the calibration. Any advice of what (if anything) I should get him to do etc.
Thanks
Nathan

[FarQueue]

Anyone else not able to play VOB files with madVR and the latest MPC-HC?

http://i55.tinypic.com/2wrmexl.png

That's the error I get. Everything is fine using EVR.



Seems to be MPC-HC's internal MPEG-2 filter.

Options -> Internal Filters -> MPEG-2 Video -> Tick 'Set interlaced flag in output media type'

That fixed it.

[cyberbeing]

Any advice of what (if anything) I should get him to do etc.

After he finishes re-calibrating your display to whatever target you decide on, just make sure to have him give out a long list of XYZ (or Yxy) measurements for the following:

White point
Black point
Primary Colors (Red, Green, Blue)
Grayscale IRE measurements from 0-100 IRE (increments of 1, 2, 5, or 10 with smaller increments being better)


Optionally you could also get the following for potential use in future yCMS revisions:

Secondary Colors (Yellow, Cyan, Magenta)
Primary Colors IRE measurements from 0-100 IRE
Secondary Colors IRE measurements from 0-100 IRE
Mixed Color IRE measurements from 0-100 IRE like the following:
Red IRE Green IRE Blue IRE
25.000 25.000 0.0000
50.000 25.000 0.0000
75.000 25.000 0.0000
100.00 25.000 0.0000
25.000 50.000 0.0000
50.000 50.000 0.0000
75.000 50.000 0.0000
100.00 50.000 0.0000
25.000 75.000 0.0000
50.000 75.000 0.0000
75.000 75.000 0.0000
100.00 75.000 0.0000
25.000 100.00 0.0000
50.000 100.00 0.0000
75.000 100.00 0.0000
100.00 100.00 0.0000
25.000 0.0000 25.000
50.000 0.0000 25.000
75.000 0.0000 25.000
100.00 0.0000 25.000
0.0000 25.000 25.000
25.000 25.000 25.000
50.000 25.000 25.000
75.000 25.000 25.000
100.00 25.000 25.000
0.0000 50.000 25.000
25.000 50.000 25.000
50.000 50.000 25.000
75.000 50.000 25.000
100.00 50.000 25.000
0.0000 75.000 25.000
25.000 75.000 25.000
50.000 75.000 25.000
75.000 75.000 25.000
100.00 75.000 25.000
0.0000 100.00 25.000
25.000 100.00 25.000
50.000 100.00 25.000
75.000 100.00 25.000
100.00 100.00 25.000
25.000 0.0000 50.000
50.000 0.0000 50.000
75.000 0.0000 50.000
100.00 0.0000 50.000
0.0000 25.000 50.000
25.000 25.000 50.000
50.000 25.000 50.000
75.000 25.000 50.000
100.00 25.000 50.000
0.0000 50.000 50.000
25.000 50.000 50.000
75.000 50.000 50.000
100.00 50.000 50.000
0.0000 75.000 50.000
25.000 75.000 50.000
50.000 75.000 50.000
75.000 75.000 50.000
100.00 75.000 50.000
0.0000 100.00 50.000
25.000 100.00 50.000
50.000 100.00 50.000
75.000 100.00 50.000
100.00 100.00 50.000
25.000 0.0000 75.000
50.000 0.0000 75.000
75.000 0.0000 75.000
100.00 0.0000 75.000
0.0000 25.000 75.000
25.000 25.000 75.000
50.000 25.000 75.000
75.000 25.000 75.000
100.00 25.000 75.000
0.0000 50.000 75.000
25.000 50.000 75.000
50.000 50.000 75.000
75.000 50.000 75.000
100.00 50.000 75.000
0.0000 75.000 75.000
25.000 75.000 75.000
50.000 75.000 75.000
75.000 75.000 75.000
100.00 75.000 75.000
0.0000 100.00 75.000
25.000 100.00 75.000
50.000 100.00 75.000
75.000 100.00 75.000
100.00 100.00 75.000
25.000 0.0000 100.00
50.000 0.0000 100.00
75.000 0.0000 100.00
100.00 0.0000 100.00
0.0000 25.000 100.00
25.000 25.000 100.00
50.000 25.000 100.00
75.000 25.000 100.00
100.00 25.000 100.00
0.0000 50.000 100.00
25.000 50.000 100.00
50.000 50.000 100.00
75.000 50.000 100.00
100.00 50.000 100.00
0.0000 75.000 100.00
25.000 75.000 100.00
50.000 75.000 100.00
75.000 75.000 100.00
100.00 75.000 100.00
0.0000 100.00 100.00
25.000 100.00 100.00
50.000 100.00 100.00
75.000 100.00 100.00

[rmp459]

How exactly? What caused the sync issues?


@ Madshi

regarding my audio sync issues @ 24p...

I didnt wanna hound the forum, but im open to get some feedback or do some testing since I created a baremetal image of my entire partition with my known working settings...

I am running nvidia beta drivers which seems to have cleaned up most of the tearing (bottom blurred line is gone, but i still get an occasional ripple on the top 1/3 for like a single frame once every 4-10 minutes) its enough to make me happy for now considering the mess my settings and playback were a week ago.

On to the settings:

Currently I am running ffdshow for audio passthrough/aac->ac3 resample and encoding. i am also using ffdshow for video decoding and have disabled all internal mpc-hc filters. I have mpc-hc audio switcher enable, but all regain/normalize off. Mpc-hc is using resolution autochange and launch files in full screen. only the bottom two resolution settings really need to be changed... 24p content --> 23hz (actually 23.9xxx) and 29.97 ntsc --> 59hz

Ffdshow audio and video are both prefered in mpc-hc external filters.

For my mpc-hc audio device, i selected reclock.

In reclock I am using wasapi exclusive for both PCM and bitstream. On the first page, I selected accept bitstream input which is not recommended because I understand reclock will drop packets to try to keep sync, so i also selected disable media adaptation w/ bitstream audio. In this sense, with PCM, reclock does its thing and will sync both audio and video, but with multich bitstream audio, it will just allow me to use wasapi exclusive for my output device to my AVR and not change the speed of the content. I have reclock vsync off and have just been letting madvr handle that itself. It seems decent so far, but this hinges on the nvidia drivers themselves.

I have tried fullscreen exclusive mode, but if i recall, my render times shoot through the roof and my render queue drops to 0-2 or something along those lines which results in occasional stuttering... i would adjust flush settings because I would really like to use FsX, but i hear if i disable flushing at some steps, those queue counters no longer mean anything.

do you know why the render times go so high in fsx? I have tried this with my extremely well overclocked gt220 and my gtx 470 and have had the same result, so I do not believe it is a lack of processing power on my end... MY CPU is a Q9550 running at 4.0GHz. And yes my OC is 100% stable. its stab tested over 24 hours and i went back to stock clocks just to make sure this was not my cause for sync issues.

I have a feeling alot of my rendering issues was caused by selected codecs in ffdshow... Originally I had a bunch selected like the default setting, but opted to deselect them all and enable them 1 by 1 as I needed them for content. I had a few times where conflicting or similar ffdshow codecs would cause my mpc-hc install to literally hang using up an entire core of CPU usage for up to 1 minute while loading a file before it would actually play the content back...

TBH i do not know the exact fix, but since i now have an image I may go back and start isolating one thing at a time to see if I can find out what was doing it exactly.

it was extremely obvious and was causing video to come in from ~250ms to 1000ms behind my audio.

[scoz]

Currently I am running ffdshow for audio passthrough/aac->ac3 resample and encoding.

Have you tried just straight decoded stereo pcm output? So use the most minimal in audio settings, no ac3 encoding, resampling, passing through, etc, just straight directshow audio. For fun go ahead and try with reclock not using exclusive, just straight directshow.

In reclock I am using wasapi exclusive for both PCM and bitstream. On the first page, I selected accept bitstream input which is not recommended because I understand reclock will drop packets to try to keep sync, so i also selected disable media adaptation w/ bitstream audio. In this sense, with PCM, reclock does its thing and will sync both audio and video, but with multich bitstream audio, it will just allow me to use wasapi exclusive for my output device to my AVR and not change the speed of the content. I have reclock vsync off and have just been letting madvr handle that itself. It seems decent so far, but this hinges on the nvidia drivers themselves.

This ac3 encoding may be your issue. You have it set to bitstream and not drop packets. Audio and video will never be perfect. You may have yourself setup where both the audio and video refuse to drop to keep in sync and so your feeling the effects. Try enabling media adaptation. See if you get audio drops, but also see if it stays in sync.

Is the 220 the gpu your trying to work with? NVidia's site says it has HDAudio but I'm not sure if your specific card does. If so you should be able to just do multichannel pcm instead of encoding to ac3.

[Mark_A_W]

I've contacted the tech that did my ISF calibration reagrding the colour space and this was his response:


I am making a booking for a few weeks time to re-do the calibration. Any advice of what (if anything) I should get him to do etc.
Thanks
Nathan


Did Aaron do the calibration for you?

[jmone]

Did Aaron do the calibration for you?

Yup - post the DTVFourm Pio Group buy 3 years ago

[Mark_A_W]

Yup - post the DTVFourm Pio Group buy 3 years ago

Small world :)

Well, not really, this is a video playback forum after all.

[rmp459]

Have you tried just straight decoded stereo pcm output? So use the most minimal in audio settings, no ac3 encoding, resampling, passing through, etc, just straight directshow audio. For fun go ahead and try with reclock not using exclusive, just straight directshow.



This ac3 encoding may be your issue. You have it set to bitstream and not drop packets. Audio and video will never be perfect. You may have yourself setup where both the audio and video refuse to drop to keep in sync and so your feeling the effects. Try enabling media adaptation. See if you get audio drops, but also see if it stays in sync.

Is the 220 the gpu your trying to work with? NVidia's site says it has HDAudio but I'm not sure if your specific card does. If so you should be able to just do multichannel pcm instead of encoding to ac3.

Media adaptation seems to make it not work since its bitstream.. and having it not adjust the audio/video when I am bitstreaming makes it work...(i think there was something else going on as well though...

Directshow seems to get mixed up with windows a bit and with my sound card (xonar stx) tends to lock up my system if i continuously play/pause any video or audio. This happens randomly with onboard sound occasionally... I hate directshow lol...

I also use the coax on my sound card to connect to my receiver and hdmi directly to the TV. Originally i didnt have a handle on the upscaling/video settings on the AVR, but i think it doesnt affect my quality at all now since I have it set up correctly, so perhaps I will try HDMI directly to the receiver in order to see if I can get multich pcm to work... Up until I rebuilt my machine a month ago and ran some new wires through the walls it wasnt even an option, but i could definitely do that now.

If i can get multich pcm to work i would imagine I could have ffdshow just decode all audio and pass multich pcm to the receiver i suppose...

Would it pay to work madflac into that mix as well to better quality audio ?

[bjd]

First off, congrats and thx to Madshi once again for top notch software that is streets ahead of anything else.

Quick question though, I have Windows 7/Mpc-HC/MadVR/ReClock playback on AMD5000/Nvidia7600-256mb and playback is generally very good given age/power of GPU.

I also have XP/Mpc-HC/MadVR/ReClock playback on AMD5200/Nvidia8400GS-512mb and this drops more frames and there are a lot of late frames.

Does XP DirectX 9c against Win7 DirectX 11 make a performance difference.

Drivers and software versions are just about the same on both, but I would expect the 8400GS to perform better and it does not.

[adam777]

Hello all,
At the moment madVR does not support the subtitle pin of MPC-HC, so in order to watch soft subs, you have to use DirectVobSub or FFDShow's subtitle filter (right? :)).
My question is, suppose I'm using FFDShow's subtitle filter, are there any differences quality-wise by letting FFDShow add the subtitle to the video source comparing to not using subtitles at all or using DirectVobSub?
Thanks.

[toniash]

First off, congrats and thx to Madshi once again for top notch software that is streets ahead of anything else.

Quick question though, I have Windows 7/Mpc-HC/MadVR/ReClock playback on AMD5000/Nvidia7600-256mb and playback is generally very good given age/power of GPU.

I also have XP/Mpc-HC/MadVR/ReClock playback on AMD5200/Nvidia8400GS-512mb and this drops more frames and there are a lot of late frames.

Does XP DirectX 9c against Win7 DirectX 11 make a performance difference.

Drivers and software versions are just about the same on both, but I would expect the 8400GS to perform better and it does not.

perhaps this http://forums.techarena.in/operating-systems/1151024.htm can help (look for "/USEPMTIMER")

[namaiki]

I prefer DirectVobSub. I will demonstrate in pictures why.

FFDShow 3730
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/50/ffdshow.th.png (http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/50/ffdshow.png)

VSFilter/DirectVobSub 2.40
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6136/vsfilter.th.png (http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6136/vsfilter.png)

[dansrfe]

ffdshow has a known bug with karoke subtitles and some ssa subs too. I personally have a system setup with ffdshow. I use my AutoResize script: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=157872 and I get perfect subtitle positioning every time.

[dansrfe]

First off, congrats and thx to Madshi once again for top notch software that is streets ahead of anything else.

Quick question though, I have Windows 7/Mpc-HC/MadVR/ReClock playback on AMD5000/Nvidia7600-256mb and playback is generally very good given age/power of GPU.

I also have XP/Mpc-HC/MadVR/ReClock playback on AMD5200/Nvidia8400GS-512mb and this drops more frames and there are a lot of late frames.

Does XP DirectX 9c against Win7 DirectX 11 make a performance difference.

Drivers and software versions are just about the same on both, but I would expect the 8400GS to perform better and it does not.

Ok so here's the thing I figured out about madVR on XP vs 7. DirectX 11 apparently does make a difference because the gamma adjustments or any ICC profile adjustments that might have been made are in fact honored in exclusive mode. That means you can get D3D exclusive playback without losing your manual calibrations. That's a big plus point which I think can be attributed to DirectX 11.

DirectX11 seems smoother in general, I don't know it might just be me. :)