madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[hubblec4]

i believe those "sync-strips" are what we call "video tearing" easy fix for that is to enable vsync in your nvidia/amd/intel gpu control panel.

Ok, thanks I will have a look.

so i guess an hd 4400 ?

than you broke some settings try resetting madVR to defaults with the "restore default settings.bat"
a screen from the OSD would be useful too (control+ j).

I have reset the settings, deinstalled madvr0.9x and installed 0.88.21 and it works a lot better (not perfect, a very rare stuttering is there). After I set all features to Biliniar(like nevcairiel said) the resualt was better, and then I activate the smooth motion and now it works 99,9%.

(Sorry that I have made no screenshot)

[lanzorg]

Hey madshi, are you still working on VapourSynth support with madVR?

[ryrynz]

Hey madshi, are you still working on VapourSynth support with madVR?

He's doing what now? I've not seen a post with him mentioning this at all, In fact almost nobody knows what he's working on at any particular time.

[lanzorg]

He's doing what now? I've not seen a post with him mentioning this at all, In fact almost nobody knows what he's working on at any particular time.
http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2757

[baii]

http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2757
Interesting, personally I watch alot of 60i content so better deinterlacing is great .But at current rate of development, I have a feeling most broadcast would moved to progressive by that time, since I think there are more wanted feature than a better deinterlacer.

Sent from my 306SH

[hu1kamania]

Better deinterlacing would be welcomed here.

I watch a lot of over the air broadcast TV and older TV shows on DVD. I find yadif to be a more consistent option, but when MadVR's dxva deinterlacing is working, it's fantastic. I have followed MadVR's development for a long time, and I know better deinterlacing has been a monkey on Madshi's back.

[6233638]

Just set things up to test 3D playback and have encountered a handful of issues:

1. With madVR set to enable/disable 3D on playback start/stop, the display is being left at 23Hz until I close JRMC, instead of restoring the previous 60Hz mode.

2. There is a huge delay switching in/out of 3D mode on my display. Is it possible to have madVR pause playback for a user-defined time when switching? I'd need something like 15-20 seconds.
This might be nice to have for 2D content switching in/out of FSE mode or changing refresh rates too - though not as important.

3. If the OS 3D mode is enabled, madVR always outputs frame-packed 3D and ignores the 3D format options.

4. SBS playback doesn't work for me at all in windowed mode. I get a second or so of SBS playback then I either get a frozen and stretched frame filling the window, or if I just switched from FSW/FSE to windowed mode, I get a black screen.
If I enter FSW/FSE mode, I get a "copying backbuffer failed (new mode)" error, and then after a second or two, SBS playback does begin to work.
Now people are probably not going to want to use SBS in windowed mode anyway, since it's not going to work with their display. I was really just using it to check if 3D playback was actually working at all (I'm re-ripping quite a few Blu-rays now)
Perhaps madVR should just be rendering 2D in Windowed mode anyway? Frame-packed 3D does work in a window, but is that a thing that people want?

5. Switching 3D mode on/off while a video is playing seems to break playback.
I tried using profiles to switch 3D on/off depending on whether FSE mode was in use or not.
This also made me realize that it would be useful if "Windowed" and "Full-Screen Windowed" could be treated as separate things in profiles.
Thinking about it more, I would probably want FSW/FSE to share the same settings in most profiles, while keeping Windowed mode separate.
The simplest solution for that would probably be to add a new "fswMode" boolean, instead of changing how "Windowed" behaves. So "Windowed" covers windowed/FSW, but "fswMode" only applies to FSW.

[Nullack]

Windows 10 build 11102 has known issues with fullscreen and 3D modes which includes madVR from my testing:

Some PC games will crash switching from windowed mode to full screen, upon game resolution change, or upon launch due to a bug in Windows graphics stack. We have observed this with The Witcher 3, Fallout 4, Tomb Raider, Assassin’s Creed, and Metal Gear Solid V but it may occur with other titles as well.

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/01/21/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-11102/

But the good news Madshi is that these crashes I and others were getting with Nvidia drivers with 3D stereoscopic mode on, its all related and allot of focus is being put on it between Microsoft and Nvidia. So I'm expecting results as new releases comes out.

EDIT: Nvidia is largely blaming MS on this one. Fellow Win 10 / Nvidia users, we need you to upvote the feedback to the Microsoft insiders program to get their attention on this one with the work going on Windows 10 in January. I detail it here http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1754371#post1754371

[bcec]

Just got around trying 3D, and everything is working as expected (frame packed 1080p 3D on a 4k uhd tv).

@madshi: could you add a keyboard shortcut for 3D left/right eye swap? This information is not maintained in mkv files (but embedded into actual bray), and some studios have left eye first, some have right eye. Keyboard shortcut would be helpful for things like creating a button on a virtual remote.

[nevcairiel]

This information is not maintained in mkv files (but embedded into actual bray), and some studios have left eye first, some have right eye.

If someone has a direct line to the MakeMKV developers, it would be interesting to bring that topic up with them.

[bcec]

Another thing I noticed is the 3D subtitle support. While subtitles work as usual, they don't have any depth, which makes them quite hard to read at times. Not quite sure if there is anything madshi can do about this.. .

[bcec]

If someone has a direct line to the MakeMKV developers, it would be interesting to bring that topic up with them.
I see this from a while ago, I wonder if it was ever specced out:
http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7863#p33739

[Aleksoid1978]

Hello madshi.
Any chance that you add support output 3D in Row Interleaved format, like PowerDVD/TMT and Stereoscopic Player.
Also, for Row Interleaved format, need options for select left/right eyes first.

[huhn]

Hello madshi.
Any chance that you add support output 3D in Row Interleaved format, like PowerDVD/TMT and Stereoscopic Player.
Also, for Row Interleaved format, need options for select left/right eyes first.

already supported in the current version of madVR.

3D format line/column alternative.

eye swapping is there too.

[Aleksoid1978]

Yes, i see in change log:

* 3D: added top-and-bottom, line alternative and column alternative modes


But don't see in options how i can select different 3D format.

Alse don't see

"swap left / right eye" option


Where is ??

[huhn]

device -> "your device name" -> properties

finally you can test it!

[Aleksoid1978]

Thanks. Amazing - it's work :)

[6233638]

Another thing I noticed is the 3D subtitle support. While subtitles work as usual, they don't have any depth, which makes them quite hard to read at times. Not quite sure if there is anything madshi can do about this.. .I can't imagine it being difficult to render subtitles with depth.
Instead of rendering the text in the same position for the left and right eye, you move them an equal distance either towards or away from the "center" to adjust their height.

My only concern would be that the depth might interfere with elements of the film.
If the subtitle depth is "behind" an object in the film, that's probably going to look very bad.
I can see where adding a small amount of depth to move the subtitles off the "surface" of the display might help though.
I threw together a very quick side-by-side test in Photoshop, and offsetting the left/right eye text even just a couple of pixels can have quite an effect on its depth. (ranges from -2 to +2 px) (http://abload.de/img/sbs-subtitles5eoei.png)

[Manni]

@Madshi & Nev,

As/when you're working on m2ts support for 3D, will you be able to read the left eye/right eye information in the m2ts file to make sure that MadVR displays the 3D stream appropriately? As far as I understand this info isn't transferred to the mk3d file.

[madshi]

Im having a very different problem than everyone else. Since .90, madvr has been crashing my display driver, often non recoverable. Where I need to hit the reset button because my monitor turns off.
Are you using Windows 10 build 11102? Also, can you please recheck with v0.89.19 to make sure it's really a new issue with v0.90.x? That's *very* important for me to know.

JRiver MC21 is a bit of a different, albeit weird, story. When I play my 3D mkv's in MC21, they're 2D. Until, that is, I move the mouse and bring up the OSD for the player. Then it pops everything into 3D properly until the OSD hides, then back to 2D. WTF? LOL I won't have time to mess with it again til this weekend but I thought that was rather peculiar.
Will look into that.

I understand.
Thank you for the effort.
If I can help in any way (logs, testing, etc.) just let me know.
Well, if you create a debug log, I can check if I can see something.

Can you link content where it "fails", also is it real world content?
aufkrawall's favorite Anime sample is one of those. Here (http://madshi.net/ChromaShort.mkv)'s another.

Can someone tell me how HDR content mapping works when display calibration controls are disabled. What color gamut and gamma does madVR map to?
In that case it defaults to BT.709 and a pure power curve of 2.2.

I get an error in the upper left corner that says something like: Could not read display mode. It only happens if I disable FSE. AMD control panel crashes and windows behave very strangely and I will have to restart.

Windows 10 x64
MPC-HC x86 latest
madVR x86 latest
AMD R9 270 with latest driver
Display 1920x1080 60Hz
Can you double check whether this is a new problem with v0.90.x or whether this also occurs with v0.89.19?

Pardon my ignorance but does that mean it'll never work on Win7?
The Win8.1+ requirement only applies to outputting the 3D video in frame packed format. You can also play 3D video on Windows 7 with madVR. It will then only use a different output format, such as side-by-side.
^

Was hoping someone could help me understand why the audio/video clock deviation changes depending on the audio format?
The "master" clock in a DirectShow graph is usually generated by the audio renderer. And the audio renderer probably behaves differently depending on which audio format it plays back. TrueHD has very small sized audio frames, maybe that helps keeping jitter low, I don't know. None of that is madVR specific, in any case, and I don't have any influence whatsoever on that.

sorry for the late answer...

I retested everything today with the newest version 0.90.3.
Sadly same result..

i try to explain it better..

0.90.0 - starting video is no problem, Video is out of sync and too fast sometimes. If i go Fullscreen the video still runs, but is totally out of sync now and the speed is wrong, also when i move my mouse the video stutters, wich never happened before, when i now go back into windowed mode, the video is black/green and sound is still playing..
I can normaly exit the player (mpchc64bit) with my mouse.Theres no error report...


0.90.1 - Same behavior as above
0.90.2 - Same behavior as above
0.90.3 - Same behavior as above

0.89.19 - Works Flawless
I can confirm the same issue with v0.90.3. Let me know if you require more info around profiles, etc.
Ok, I'll create some test builds between 0.89.19 and 0.90.x later for you to test.

AFAIK specific calibration is necessary for 3D. Does that mean that 3D 3DLUT needs to be made and applied or does madVR somehow compensate on top of existing 3DLUT's, made for 2D?
You can create a separate 3dlut for 3D if you want, by creating profiles for calibration and auto switching them depending on whether content is 2D or 3D. How to actually do a 3D calibration I don't know. Please refer to the AVSForum calibration threads for that purpose.

-the main issue is that the new chroma SR adds EE as previously observed by har3inger (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1753284&postcount=35338) and sxbr25 rings quite a bit so RS being far from soft it turns into very obvious EE, even with SR set to 1
Maybe when using Reconstruction, you can turn off chroma SuperRes instead to avoid the EE?

-RS indeed appears to be the most transparent algorithm for the job in mVR, really great looking on HD video content

Long story short, could you allow us to only run NEDI & sxbr for luma doubling and not chroma?
"Reconstruction" is strictly only for chroma upscaling, it can't be used for chroma doubling. At least it wouldn't make sense there.

I finally figure out reclock's problem, but I will see some judder during play. Madvr's osd told me 0 frame drop/repeat and 0 present glitch. I'm not sure if it is my monitor's problem.

I've tried latest madvr & lavfilters, I still get massive frame drop after play 1h10min. It happens before, only in frame packed 3D playback.
I'm not sure I understand: Does this frame drop problem only occur with 3D playback, or also with 2D playback?

MadVR 0.9x don't work smooth. The video is stuttering (original settings). What ever I change in the settings it will be not better.
Can you please double check v0.89.19 to make sure it's really a new issue introduced with v0.90.x? That's quite important.

If one does this resolution is lost isn't it because madVR will shrink SBS and the panel will stretch it again when it makes it 3D?
Yes, for active shutter displays using SBS does cost resolution. For passive displays that's not the case, though, because the display itself is already built to lose resolution, and if you let madVR directly render to "line alternative", you might even get slightly better image quality than when using frame packed 3D output. The display will not know that it's doing 3D playback in that case, though. Not sure if that's important. Might be if the display switches into a different mode internally for 3D playback which has some benefits (like higher brightness or something). In that case using frame packed 3D would be better.

There may also be the issue where any madVR image enhancements will merge parts of both pictures together where the left and right image join?
No, madVR processing always strictly handles left and right view separately. Only in the last processing steps the left and right views will be merged together.

I have reset the settings, deinstalled madvr0.9x and installed 0.88.21 and it works a lot better (not perfect, a very rare stuttering is there). After I set all features to Biliniar(like nevcairiel said) the resualt was better, and then I activate the smooth motion and now it works 99,9%.
That 99,9% is that with 0.88.21 or 0.90.x? If it's with 0.88.21 and 0.90.x is clearly worse for you, then please try 0.89.19 as a test to see whether the new issue was introduced between 0.88.21 and 0.89.19, or between 0.89.19 and 0.90.0.

1. With madVR set to enable/disable 3D on playback start/stop, the display is being left at 23Hz until I close JRMC, instead of restoring the previous 60Hz mode.
Is that with "restore os stereo 3d settings" activated or deactivated? And do you have display mode switching turned on or off? If on, do you have display mode restauration turned on or off?

2. There is a huge delay switching in/out of 3D mode on my display. Is it possible to have madVR pause playback for a user-defined time when switching? I'd need something like 15-20 seconds.
This might be nice to have for 2D content switching in/out of FSE mode or changing refresh rates too - though not as important.
At some point, maybe. But for now my priority is on fixing all problems first.

3. If the OS 3D mode is enabled, madVR always outputs frame-packed 3D and ignores the 3D format options.
Ooops. That said, wouldn't it be strange/useless to output side-by-side, when the GPU sends frame packed 3D to the display? I'm not sure how to solve this properly. Some GPUs *ALWAYS* send frame packed 3D if the OS 3D mode is enabled. Some switch it on only when the first application tries to output frame packed 3D.

4. SBS playback doesn't work for me at all in windowed mode. I get a second or so of SBS playback then I either get a frozen and stretched frame filling the window, or if I just switched from FSW/FSE to windowed mode, I get a black screen.
If I enter FSW/FSE mode, I get a "copying backbuffer failed (new mode)" error, and then after a second or two, SBS playback does begin to work.
Which OS? Which GPU? Which media player? x64 or x86? Are you using D3D11 presentation or D3D9 presentation or Overlay?

5. Switching 3D mode on/off while a video is playing seems to break playback.
Do you mean the OS 3D mode or do you mean the "enable stereo 3d playback" in madVR? The latter should be setup once and then left in that stage.

This also made me realize that it would be useful if "Windowed" and "Full-Screen Windowed" could be treated as separate things in profiles.
Thinking about it more, I would probably want FSW/FSE to share the same settings in most profiles, while keeping Windowed mode separate.
The simplest solution for that would probably be to add a new "fswMode" boolean, instead of changing how "Windowed" behaves. So "Windowed" covers windowed/FSW, but "fswMode" only applies to FSW.
I don't like that, to be honest. Would make more sense to add a "fullscreen" boolean. You can combine that yourself with the already existing "windowed" or "fseMode".

Windows 10 build 11102 has known issues with fullscreen and 3D modes which includes madVR from my testing
Oh, interesting!

could you add a keyboard shortcut for 3D left/right eye swap?
Wouldn't it make more sense to add file tagging support for that?

Another thing I noticed is the 3D subtitle support. While subtitles work as usual, they don't have any depth, which makes them quite hard to read at times. Not quite sure if there is anything madshi can do about this.. .
How do Blu-Ray players solve this? Are there actual 3D subtitles stored on a 3D Blu-Ray disc? Or do they simple let the user choose at which depth to show subtitles?

As/when you're working on m2ts support for 3D, will you be able to read the left eye/right eye information in the m2ts file to make sure that MadVR displays the 3D stream appropriately? As far as I understand this info isn't transferred to the mk3d file.
nevcairiel is aware of the issue and I'm sure he'll implement it properly. madVR itself relies on that the decoder sends the frames in the right order atm. So unless we change the interface between madVR and LAV, it's currently LAV's job to switch left/right eye view, if the content requires it.

Yes, i see in change log:

[...]

But don't see in options how i can select different 3D format.
Well, I'm trying to put the options where they belong logically. In a multi-monitor setup one display might work best with "frame packing", while another one might want "line alternative". So these settings belong into the device/monitor specific settings in madVR.

When you test this, can you please compare image quality to PowerDVD to see if madVR is better/same/worse? Also one thing that I would find very interesting: When PowerDVD does 3D playback, does your display know that it's doing 3D?

[ryrynz]

aufkrawall's favorite Anime sample is one of those. Here (http://madshi.net/ChromaShort.mkv)'s another.


Yeah... Bilateral it's pretty disappointing there. I wish there was something that just aced it all. I'd rather have a chroma upscaler be able to deal with swathes of red in an acceptable way rather than have it look consistently more natural overall.. which I probably wouldn't notice anyway.. Think I'll have to consider reconstruction soft.

[madshi]

Spoke to soon on the 2nd Issue - here is a log: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59011278/madVR%20-%20log3.zip that should show playback in D3D9 no D3D11 (3D) mode with some seeks where post seek you see a bit of SBS then it goes into a std 2D image.

I think this is also related to my observation of "If move or right click the mouse to go into madVR settings and more often I get a visual effect like when leaving "Exclusive" mode" is actually it falling out of 3D to 2D
Ok, found one more potential issue. Please retest with the next build, whenever it occurs.

[hubblec4]

Can you please double check v0.89.19 to make sure it's really a new issue introduced with v0.90.x? That's quite important.

Ok, I will test it then.


That 99,9% is that with 0.88.21 or 0.90.x? If it's with 0.88.21 and 0.90.x is clearly worse for you, then please try 0.89.19 as a test to see whether the new issue was introduced between 0.88.21 and 0.89.19, or between 0.89.19 and 0.90.0.


The 99,9% is with 0.88.21. In very very rare case the video is stuttering and only for a half second.
I will try 0.89.19 (Nevcairiel said you had change a lot of DVD playback in 0.89x thats why I try 0.88x)

[a8213711]

How come for some files I see in ctrl+j 'DXVA' in chroma upscale instead of the chosen Bilinear?

[huhn]

do you use DXVA image upscaling?

[leeperry]

Maybe when using Reconstruction, you can turn off chroma SuperRes instead to avoid the EE?
Oh no, I cannot live without SR anymore as I find motion blur very distracting and I now become a RS believer but I can't use both in combination with NNEDI3/sxbr chroma doubling because 1) RS is very detailed and unforgiving 2) SR adds chroma EE 3) NNEDI3/sxbr chroma doubling ring, especially the latter so the ringing+EE combo give a cartoon look to every moving object.

SR+RS is pretty much all dandy without chroma doubling on HD or with NEDI chroma doubling on SD as the latter doesn't appear to ring nearly as much as sxbr for instance. Sorry to ask again, but would it be technically possible to allow luma doubling only for NEDI/sxbr? I'm not in the market for chroma ringing, especially when it gets the merciless RS+SR treatment :o

BTW it's quite fun to play videos at half-speed in combo with FRC :)

[Aleksoid1978]

When you test this, can you please compare image quality to PowerDVD to see if madVR is better/same/worse? Also one thing that I would find very interesting: When PowerDVD does 3D playback, does your display know that it's doing 3D?

Image quality is the same, i don't see diference. About my TV - it do not show any information about 3D. I just start playback, take 3D glass and enjoin :)
And what cool - that i can see 3D only in window(with TMT/madVR). PoweDVD do not show 3D in window.

[madshi]

How come for some files I see in ctrl+j 'DXVA' in chroma upscale instead of the chosen Bilinear?
When using DXVA decoding or deinterlacing, madVR uses DXVA chroma upscaling, unless you change the "trade quality for performance" settings.

Oh no, I cannot live without SR anymore as I find motion blur very distracting and I now become a RS believer but I can't use both in combination with NNEDI3/sxbr chroma doubling because 1) RS is very detailed and unforgiving 2) SR adds chroma EE 3) NNEDI3/sxbr chroma doubling ring, especially the latter so the ringing+EE combo give a cartoon look to every moving object.
I think motion blur is more of a luma thing, and less chroma. I didn't mean to suggest to turn luma SuperRes off, just chroma SuperRes. Which shouldn't affect motion blur much, I think.

Sorry to ask again, but would it be technically possible to allow luma doubling only for NEDI/sxbr?
Technically possible: Yes. Coming any time soon: No, sorry. You're the only one who's asked for that yet, and it would complicate the rendering pipeline.

Image quality is the same, i don't see diference. About my TV - it do not show any information about 3D. I just start playback, take 3D glass and enjoin :)
And what cool - that i can see 3D only in window(with TMT/madVR). PoweDVD do not show 3D in window.
Ok, good to hear!

One question: If you enable the Ctrl+J OSD, it is being rendered a little bit differently, depending on whether playback is paused or running (you can see that very clearly when looking at your TV without the 3D glasses on). Without the glasses on it's pretty clear which rendering method looks better (= when paused). But I'm wondering how it is with glasses on? I can't change the way the OSD looks like in paused state, but I could change it during playback. The same thing applies to all kinds of OSD, so it's not unimportant.

[huhn]

for line/column alternative is the picture for both image shifted by half a pixel? so the image has kind of the same position.

[madshi]

It's shifted by 0.25 pixels each. 0.5 would be too much. You can see that in the Ctrl+J OSD. It looks nice and smooth in 3D playback. With 0.0 or 0.5 pixel shifting it would look quite ugly.

[huhn]

i guess i did the math wrong but you have thinked about it so it is fine.

and i can't test it.

[evil-doer]

Are you using Windows 10 build 11102? Also, can you please recheck with v0.89.19 to make sure it's really a new issue with v0.90.x? That's *very* important for me to know.

My Windows 10 says version 1511 (OS Build 10586.63)

I ran 0.89.19 for a long time with no issues, and the second I installed the first 0.90 build, without touching a single setting, I was getting the crashes.

[madshi]

Ok, for all those of you who have new problems with v0.90.x which you didn't have in v0.89.19, here's a collection of test builds which are all intermediate steps between v0.89.19 and v0.90.x:

http://madshi.net/zzz - builds.rar

Some notes for optimal testing:

1) These are all 32bit builds, so please use a 32bit media player. You can switch builds simply by replacing the "madVR.ax" file. No need to uninstall/install madVR.
2) Please don't use any of the new features of v0.90.x. Make sure you have them all deactivated (e.g. all the 3D options/checkboxes, chroma "Reconstruction" etc).
3) Please make sure you have 3D deactivated in the OS settings (only applies if you have a 3D capable display).
4) Build 1 is the most likely to still show the problem. Build 10 is the least likely to still show the problem.
5) In order to save time, I'd suggest to start with build 5. If the problem occurs with build 5, it will also occur with builds 1-4. In that case try build 7 or 8. If the problem does not occur with build 5, then it will also not occur with builds 6-10. In that case try build 2 or 3. Etc... This way you should be able to find the exact build which introduced the problem pretty quickly.

Thanks!

[madshi]

i guess i did the math wrong but you have thinked about it so it is fine.

and i can't test it.
Well, if you think about it, the image needs to be downscaled vertically by 2x first. After that a 0.25 pixel shift is the same as a 0.5 pixel shift before downscaling. So we're probably both right, depending on whether we talk about the pixel shift before or after downscaling. Anyway...

[SamuriHL]

JRiver MC21 is a bit of a different, albeit weird, story. When I play my 3D mkv's in MC21, they're 2D. Until, that is, I move the mouse and bring up the OSD for the player. Then it pops everything into 3D properly until the OSD hides, then back to 2D. WTF? LOL I won't have time to mess with it again til this weekend but I thought that was rather peculiar.



Will look into that.


Thanks. If that gets fixed I'm golden on 3D. We gave a bit more information on this situation in the JRiver thread as you know. Basically if the disable for 2D, enable for 3D, and restore settings options on the 3D options page are set, we get this messed up behavior with the MC21 UI and it switching in and out of 3D. With those options unset, and only the option to enable 3D turned on, then it plays 3D just fine. I can't replicate this in MPC-HC, so, it's some weird issue that seems specific to MC21. If you need any testing, let me know.

[aufkrawall]

I wish there was something that just aced it all.
Imho that's still NNEDI3.
It's not perfect, but: it has the least ringing problems, it is a good compromise between sharp and soft and never fails in an obvious way (at least with chroma).

[Uoppi]

Any ideas why present queue shows 2 as the max value, regardless of what is set in madVR's settings? Previously everything has worked fine. Sometimes the OSD shows the correct present queue number at first but quickly changes to 2 and is then stuck there.

[madshi]

Any ideas why present queue shows 2 as the max value, regardless of what is set in madVR's settings? Previously everything has worked fine. Sometimes the OSD shows the correct present queue number at first but quickly changes to 2 and is then stuck there.
That's most probably the low latency mode, which the media player activates when drawing any kind of OSD that needs quick reaction times (madVR's Ctrl+J OSD does *not* activate it, though). It also gets activated when the madVR exclusive mode seekbar is visible.

[hubblec4]

Hi madshi

here are the test pictures. (http://forum.videohelp.com/attachments/35331-1453567578/madvr_test.7z)
(MPC-HC with LAV 0.67.30 all 64bit)

I have reset the settings, install madvr0.89.19 and deactivate the exclusive mode -> video is stuttering.
Then I set all to Bilinear (disabled deinterlace funtion) -> video looks better but also stuttering.
Activate the Smooth motion -> 99,9% works (stuttering barely perceptible)

Then reset the settings again, installed madvr0.90.03, only set the devices (Pinoeer VSX-930-s -> Sony50W805C) and it looks very good.
Then I do the same procedure, no exclusive mode, Bilinear, then smooth motion activate. With smooth motion 99,9% works.

It seems to me that it works with the exclusive mode but without the video is stuttering.
I have yet not tested madvr0.88.21 with exclusive mode but I thinks it works.

mmh, but i don't like the exclusive mode(sorry).

[madshi]

I have reset the settings, install madvr0.89.19 and deactivate the exclusive mode -> video is stuttering.
Then I set all to Bilinear (disabled deinterlace funtion) -> video looks better but also stuttering.
Activate the Smooth motion -> 99,9% works (stuttering barely perceptible)

Then reset the settings again, installed madvr0.90.03, only set the devices (Pinoeer VSX-930-s -> Sony50W805C) and it looks very good.
Then I do the same procedure, no exclusive mode, Bilinear, then smooth motion activate. With smooth motion 99,9% works.

It seems to me that it works with the exclusive mode but without the video is stuttering.
I have yet not tested madvr0.88.21 with exclusive mode but I thinks it works.

mmh, but i don't like the exclusive mode(sorry).
Hmmmm... I'm not sure about the conclusion of your test? It seems all of them can be smooth or stuttering, depending on settings? I'm not clear about which version is best now, because you seem to have tested different things with different versions.

Hmmmmm... Which OS is that? If you don't like exclusive mode, then try activating Aero, that might improve the situation. Or try Overlay in the madVR settings, if you have an NVidia or Intel GPU.

[leeperry]

I think motion blur is more of a luma thing, and less chroma. I didn't mean to suggest to turn luma SuperRes off, just chroma SuperRes. Which shouldn't affect motion blur much, I think.
Both help IME, together they work on the same EE as far as I can see and it sure looks like a winning combo to my eyes but eventually the GIGO principle very much applies with RS and both SR's engaged all together :devil:

Technically possible: Yes. Coming any time soon: No, sorry. You're the only one who's asked for that yet, and it would complicate the rendering pipeline.
Figured thanks, no sweat as it's hard to deny that NNEDI3 luma-only and NEDI are fully usable. I believe some ppl don't like sxbr due to its ringing, I can see some truth to that.

[hubblec4]

Hmmmm... I'm not sure about the conclusion of your test? It seems all of them can be smooth or stuttering, depending on settings? I'm not clear about which version is best now, because you seem to have tested different things with different versions.

Hmmmmm... Which OS is that? If you don't like exclusive mode, then try activating Aero, that might improve the situation. Or try Overlay in the madVR settings, if you have an NVidia or Intel GPU.

The test was ever the same. Disabled exclusive mode, Bilinear and activate smooth motion. have tested madvr 0.88.29/0.89.19 / 0.90.03
Only for 0.90.03 i try it with the exclusive mode.

Win7 64 bit, no themes activated (classic windows).

Aero is not available, i could try the Overlay settings in madvr.

Thanks madshi.

[madshi]

The test was ever the same. Disabled exclusive mode, Bilinear and activate smooth motion. have tested madvr 0.88.29/0.89.19 / 0.90.03
Only for 0.90.03 i try it with the exclusive mode.
But you tried 0.90.3 without exclusive mode, too? So which of the 3 versions works well for you and which doesn't?

Win7 64 bit, no themes activated (classic windows).

Aero is not available, i could try the Overlay settings in madvr.
Overlay might work well for you. If not, you could try a theme which allows Aero to work.

[evil-doer]

Ok, for all those of you who have new problems with v0.90.x which you didn't have in v0.89.19, here's a collection of test builds which are all intermediate steps between v0.89.19 and v0.90.x:

http://madshi.net/zzz - builds.rar

Some notes for optimal testing:

1) These are all 32bit builds, so please use a 32bit media player. You can switch builds simply by replacing the "madVR.ax" file. No need to uninstall/install madVR.
2) Please don't use any of the new features of v0.90.x. Make sure you have them all deactivated (e.g. all the 3D options/checkboxes, chroma "Reconstruction" etc).
3) Please make sure you have 3D deactivated in the OS settings (only applies if you have a 3D capable display).
4) Build 1 is the most likely to still show the problem. Build 10 is the least likely to still show the problem.
5) In order to save time, I'd suggest to start with build 5. If the problem occurs with build 5, it will also occur with builds 1-4. In that case try build 7 or 8. If the problem does not occur with build 5, then it will also not occur with builds 6-10. In that case try build 2 or 3. Etc... This way you should be able to find the exact build which introduced the problem pretty quickly.

Thanks!

Followed instructions to the T.

5: works
6: works
7: Totally red screen in the video player
8/9/10: Long buffering wait, dialog box reading: ResampleX[1,0,0], Resample shaders logic error(3), black screen in player with audio playing for a bit, then the player crashes.

[Manni]

How do Blu-Ray players solve this? Are there actual 3D subtitles stored on a 3D Blu-Ray disc? Or do they simple let the user choose at which depth to show subtitles?


There are some 3D subtitles on 3D blurays and you can even select on which plane they are supposed to be set to (based on the info in tsmuxer when remixing to a 3D ISO).
If you import the main mlps of a 3D bluray into tsmuxer and select ISO output, you'll see what I mean.


nevcairiel is aware of the issue and I'm sure he'll implement it properly. madVR itself relies on that the decoder sends the frames in the right order atm. So unless we change the interface between madVR and LAV, it's currently LAV's job to switch left/right eye view, if the content requires it.


Got it, thanks.

[sneaker_ger]

Some basic info about 3D BluRay subtitles can be found on the official website:
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/Downloadablefile/BD-ROM_Audio_Visual_Application_Format_Specifications-18780.pdf

Looks complicated.

[madshi]

Followed instructions to the T.

5: works
6: works
7: Totally red screen in the video player
8/9/10: Long buffering wait, dialog box reading: ResampleX[1,0,0], Resample shaders logic error(3), black screen in player with audio playing for a bit, then the player crashes.
Ooops, sorry. Here's an updated set of builds:

http://madshi.net/zzz - builds2.rar

Only builds 8-10 changed. Can't fix build 7. So please test builds 8-10.

Some basic info about 3D BluRay subtitles can be found on the official website:
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/Downloadablefile/BD-ROM_Audio_Visual_Application_Format_Specifications-18780.pdf

Looks complicated.
It seems there's two different ways 3D subtitles can be stored on 3D Blu-Ray:

1) Just one image, which is drawn on both left and right views, but there's an SEI block in the MVC video stream which tells us at which depth the subtitle is supposed to be drawn.

2) Or true 3D subtitles, with different images for left and right eyes.

I've no idea how many Blu-Rays are using approach 1) vs 2). No current subtitle renderer supports 2), so I don't think that's easy to solve right now. The splitter would have to output the data somehow and the subtitle renderer would have to render it. You could ask nevcairiel to look into splitting, but I doubt he'd do it any time soon.

Solution 1) shouldn't be that hard to implement. The splitter would have to parse the SEI blocks, though, and forward them to me. That's something nevcairiel and I could look into at some point, because it seems to be fairly simple. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. We don't even have SSIF splitting yet!

[evil-doer]

Ooops, sorry. Here's an updated set of builds:

http://madshi.net/zzz - builds2.rar

Only builds 8-10 changed. Can't fix build 7. So please test builds 8-10.

No problems with any of them.

[madshi]

No problems with any of them.
Oh. I just noticed we tested in the wrong order. As I wrote in my original post:

> If the problem does not occur with build 5, then it will
> also not occur with builds 6-10. In that case try build 2 or 3.

You said you had no problem with build 5, so your next test should have been build 2 or 3, and not build 6+. Sorry, didn't notice that before...

[IceB]

Hello everybody.
Since I have updated madvr I have a strange issue with the full screen exclusive dx11 mode.
While I start the movie (1080p bdremux), I can see the present and gpu/cpu queue gets full and the picture is smooth with the render time about 20ms. After couple of minutes I can see a minor picture glitch and the queue gets to down to 0. The render time gets a bit higher after that bur overall I still get no drop frames with 0 queue. I tried to lower the present queue, gpu/cpu queue but unfortunately the queue drop still exists. Switching to the dx11 windowed full screen fills up the queue immidiately. But switching back to FSE drops the queue immidiately back to 0.
I use the latest ATI/AMD drivers with 2x7970 crossfire. AFAIK madvr is not operating with CF the the second gpu is irrelevant. Chroma up scaling nnedi 64 with super res x3 is active. No smooth motion. Refresh rate changes to 23.974... (video source is 23.976). Activating nnedi 128 drops the queue to 0 even faster - maybe a minute or two.
I had no such issue with the previous madvr 8x version I had earlier. Couldn't find similar issue reports searching the threqd.Am I missing something ? Any workaround besides rolling back to the previous madvr version ?
Thanks

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