madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Thunderbolt8]

anything special to regard or look out for when playing 1080i 29.97fps content & downscaling ?

[zn]

Is it possible to use madVR with MPlayer?

[6233638]

New problem on my nvidia 9400 system. Trying out different chroma resampling options. Some of them are too slow and I get dropped/delayed frames but some of them (softcubic) report no dropped/delayed frames though the picture stutters on pans. (perfect on bilinear)

[actarusfleed]

I've found this problem when I watch films (m2ts) on my system:
Ati Radeon HD4850
Catalyst 9.6 and 9.7
Windows Vista and Windows 7
MPC HC 1.2.1169
MadVR 0.10
Reclock 1.848
PJ JVC RS20

The tearing is a orrible cutting line in the lower portion of the image:

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7482/tearingc.th.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tearingc.jpg)

In the image above is not possible to se the tearing-line but I've signed the position with a red "X".
You can see that I've checked "Enable VSYNC Correction" in reclock and I've centered the target in the midle of the VSYNC cursor without resolving the problem.
I've already checked the function "Enable VSYNC correction for all renders" in the config. prompt of reclock.

The tearing is visible only if I select 1080p@24Hz in the ATI Control Center. If I select 1080p@50Hz or 60Hz the tearing vanish!

Follows the infos that MPC HC reports when I play the same video at different fps:

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7076/at60.jpg

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/2312/at24.jpg

Can some one help me to solve this problem?

Thank you,
acta.

[noee]

Try this:
Turn off all Vsync options in Reclock
Make sure the "Hardware Access Method" is Auto
In CCC, under 3D/All Settings/Wait For Vertical Refresh == On, unless application specifies (this is probably superfluous as madVR turns it on anyway)

Use MPC-HC 1230 or 1237

What happens then with 24Hz?

[6233638]

It is just madvr or does moving a window on the desktop tear as well?
If the desktop tears too then its a video timing problem.

[actarusfleed]

Use MPC-HC 1230 or 1237

Can you post a download link?

Tonight when I'll go home I'll try all your tricks.:thanks:

I'll see also if the windows generate some tearing effect ... but I do not think so .... normally I've never seen any problem and normally I watch films with EVR custom with out tearing.

stay tuned,
thank you,
acta.

[actarusfleed]

:(
I've setted "wait 4 vertical refresh" Always ON in the CCC:
The tearing persists.

I've setted reclock like your specification:
The tearing persists.

I've downloaded MPC HC 1237 (thanks 4 the link):
The tearing persists.

At this point I've verified if there is any tearing over the windows in the Vista desktop.
Big surprise!
If I move fast a window I can see the broken borders! :eek:

This happens @24Hz, @50Hz and @60Hz in the same way and entity.

I've repeated this test on another PC connected to a LCD monitor and I see the same problem.

Are all my timings wrong?

If yes, powerstrip is the only way to adjust my timings?

If I've not perfect timings why they do not produce tearing watching films in EVR?

Thank you so much, acta.

[yesgrey]

If I've not perfect timings why they do not produce tearing watching films in EVR?
Which cpu do you have?

[leeperry]

tearing persists.
[..]why they do not produce tearing watching films in EVR?
you could try many things:
-set the PCI-E speed at 101MHz in the motherboard BIOS
-use Reclock/MPC tearing tests and look for tearing for a few mins, to make sure that your display doesn't play funky tricks on you
-check the CPU load? set back mVR to its default settings?
use some vanilla ffdshow-mt on low bitrate stuff? this can create tearing as well.

I only had tearing in mVR when using CoreAVC CUDA, apparently CUDA was creating too much GPU latency on genuine BD high bitrate content...720p files were fine.

[Mark_A_W]

For Tearing:

Turn on Aero.

Or, alternately, turn off Aero.

;)

[actarusfleed]

For Tearing:

Turn on Aero.


What is "Aero"?:confused:

acta.

[Leak]

What is "Aero"? :confused:
No Aero:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/263/noaero.jpg

Aero'd:
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2481/aerod.jpg

How?
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4194/aerohowto.jpg

np: Jackie Leven & The Celtic Soulmen - Glenarm, Burning Box Of Beautiful Things (The Haunted Year: Spring - Man Bleeds In Glasgow)

[actarusfleed]

Which cpu do you have?

I’ve a Q9550.

For Tearing: Turn on Aero.

I’ve turned ON Aero but tearing persists.

-set the PCI-E speed at 101MHz in the motherboard BIOS

I’ve made tests with the BIOS-overclock settings@AUTO and with a MANUAL-overclocking (PCI-E@101Mhz) and the tearing persists.

-use Reclock/MPC tearing tests and look for tearing for a few mins, to make sure that your display doesn't play funky tricks on you
use some vanilla ffdshow-mt on low bitrate stuff? this can create tearing as well.

I do not have in my chain ffdshow.
Tonight I’ve tested some VOB files taken from a standard DVD.
Tearing still there!
Like you can see in the picture below with this material the “Vsync adaption” tools in reclock was OFF.
When I play files like m2ts taken from BDs this options are avaliable.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2605/21082009048.th.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21082009048.jpg)

-check the CPU load? set back mVR to its default settings?

MadVr is still with its default settings. I’ve never changed it.
The Cpu load is very lower : 10%-20%

Any other suggestions?

acta.

[leeperry]

well you're in S/PDIF pass-through mode in Reclock, so as it shows in the control panel Reclock can't do anything to help smooth playback. you may wanna disable it and use plain analog output, so it will slow down 25@23.976...maybe this won't help tearing, but this won't hurt either.

so if you stare for a few mins at the MPC HC tearing test(CTRL+T) in EVR, and Reclock's tearing as well(check "tearing test" in its control panel)...they don't hiccup whatsoever? only w/ madVR?

your DirectX/graphic card drivers/BIOS are up to date?

[actarusfleed]

Thank you all 4 you feedback....

well you're in S/PDIF pass-through mode in Reclock, so as it shows in the control panel Reclock can't do anything to help smooth playback.

Yes, you’re right but I’ve made a very fast test using my old DVD pal without changing settings that I normally use with BDs.
Anyway tonignt I’ll do a test without “S/PDIF pass-throught mode”.

so it will slow down 25@23.976...maybe this won't help tearing, but this won't hurt either.

Infact tearing still there with m2ts 23.976 outputted @23.976

so if you stare for a few mins at the MPC HC tearing test(CTRL+T) in EVR, and Reclock's tearing as well(check "tearing test" in its control panel)...they don't hiccup whatsoever? only w/ madVR?

My poor english ... I don’t understand what you mean ....
Are you suggesting me to play 2 tearing tests (MPC + Reclock) at the same time?

Can you explain better? Like you’re telling it to a baby.:)

your DirectX/graphic card drivers/BIOS are up to date?

Yes, all things are updated. Yesterday I’ve intsalled last Catalyst 9.8.
Tearing still there.

Now I’ve to do another test .... I want to test my HTPC with a different display capable of 24fps.
If the problem persists I’ve good reasons to exlude a “timings” problem.

I’m right?

Acta.

[leeperry]

you would need to get Reclock working(whatever 25@24 or 25@23.976) in analog mode, and then enable its tearing test...and stare at the moving bar for a few mins to see if it tears. then try it w/ MPC HC's tearing test, just to be sure. I guess you could use both simultaneously in EVR.

this will rule out your display doing internal 60Hz conversion....but if Reclock's tearing test is fine in EVR and not w/ mVR, then I'm not too sure. also, don't use BD m2ts files, to exclude CPU overload ;)

[actarusfleed]

Like you suggest I've turned OFF S/PDIF pass-through mode in Reclock.
So I've loaded a VOB file taken from a standard DVD.
My output is@24Hz

MadVr= tearing!
EVR= perfect!

With MadVr was not possible to activate any tearing test (MPC + Reclock).

So I've loaded a m2ts file.
The CPU stays @ 20%

MadVr= tearing!
EVR= perfect!

With MadVr was not possible to activate any VSync function (tearing test too) in MPC HC.
Only reclock's tearing test was avaliable.
I've execute it and for 6 minutes I've watched the white vertical line broken by the tearing.

With EVR was not possible to activate any VSync function (tearing test too) in RECLOCK.
Only MPC HC's tearing test was avaliable.
I've executed it and for 6 minutes I've watched the red vertical lines perfectly moving without any tearing effet.

I'm going desperate ....

acta.

[leeperry]

what's your graphic card again? did you try older builds of mVR?

so Reclock's tearing test is fine w/ EVR but not mVR? rather strange..you're running Vista or W7?

[actarusfleed]

what's your graphic card again?

ATI RADEON 4850 Gigabyte Fanless

did you try older builds of mVR?


No, never. Can you post some link for previous release?

so Reclock's tearing test is fine w/ EVR but not mVR?

No, in EVR the only tearing test avaliable is MPCHC.
Reclock tearing test is unselectable.
The opposite happens with MadVr:
Reclock test is avaliable,
Mpc Hc test is unselectable.

Anyway the tests confirm what my eye see: madVr tears@24Hz on my system.

A litte question: There is some people in this forum that normally use MadVr@24Hz with ATI radeon 48xx and Vista/Win 7?

you're running Vista or W7?
In this moment I use Win Vista Ultimate but some weeks ago I've made some tests with Win 7 and the story do not change: madVr tears @24Hz!

acta.

[leeperry]

Reclock's tearing test should work w/ EVR...but I think you nailed it, 24Hz tears w/ mVR...48Hz is fine for me.

[zn]

Is it possible to use MadVR anywhere else except MPC?

[Snowknight26]

Yes, it is.

[actarusfleed]

Somewhere I've read that the tearing effect is generated by the slow time that the video render/video card need to refresh the image on the screen.

I suppose that MadVR is good.
So ,in may case, maybe the video card is too slow.

So I think: Maybe a video card overclocking can resolve my problem?

What do you think about it?

I've a gygabite ATI Radeon 4850 fanless (http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=gigabyte_hd_4850.html).

And this are my actual settings:

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6601/240820091609.jpg

What do I have to change?

thank you,
acta

[Leak]

So I think: Maybe a video card overclocking can resolve my problem?

What do you think about it?
Forget it - overclocking your card definitely won't help you with tearing.

And I'm really not sure what else it could be as my Radeon 4850 works totally tearing-free in Windows 7 x64.

np: Tosca - Fluss (Session 9) (Dehli9 (Disc 2))

[leeperry]

Somewhere I've read that the tearing effect is generated by the slow time that the video render/video card need to refresh the image on the screen.
I think mVR is known to tear in 24Hz? I think I remember someone mentioning it...does it tear in 48Hz for you? not for me.

[actarusfleed]

my Radeon 4850 works totally tearing-free in Windows 7 x64.

You use it @24Hz?
Some weeks ago I've installed win 7 x64 and the tears was there (only @ 24Hz).:(

does it tear in 48Hz for you?

I've not yet tried 48Hz.
Some days ago I've installed Powerstrip 3.80.625 to make some test but under Vista it seems do not work.:(

Do you know some other utility that creates "custom resolutions"?

In the next days I'll re-install Win 7 to check if Powerstrip can works normally.
If yes I'll try 1080@48Hz.

I hope well.

thank you,
acta.

[Leak]

You use it @24Hz?
Some weeks ago I've installed win 7 x64 and the tears was there (only @ 24Hz).:(
Nope, just the default 60Hz as of now - haven't watched anything on my projector (which I usually run at ~48Hz, 50Hz or ~60Hz, depending on the DVD) lately.

Also, PowerStrip 3.86 was released this month with the announcement saying "under every OS from the original retail release of Windows 95 to the 64-bit Edition of Windows 7." - have you tried it yet?

np: Jared Emerson-Johnson - Roy G. Biv (Sam & Max Season One OST (Disc 2))

[leeperry]

Do you know some other utility that creates "custom resolutions"?
I know Seb.26 contacted ATi concerning that matter, coz their drivers are completely useless for HTPC use...and they told him to try his luck w/ pstrip and Ati Tray Tools. apparently ATT can also create them, but it doesn't seem too convenient.

and pstrip is buggy because it's not officially supported by ATi, Entech has to reverse engineer and figure out how to program GPU timings...

48.000Hz was giving 48.548 on my HD2600XT...after a lot of whining on the pstrip forums, they finally fixed it...this made Reclock and my DLP pj a lot happier :D

when I moved to nvidia cards(again), I was very happy w/ their drivers: official custom resolution timings, much more accurate, far more stable as they know the official specs to change the PLL coeffs. my HR jitter improved a hell lot in 48Hz w/ HR+Reclock & the GF9600 over my previous HD3850...and no more MOM.exe/CCC.exe(written in VB?) + the 2 pesky system services :rolleyes:

when I get the chance, I'll try 24Hz on my GF9600 if you want.

[actarusfleed]

Nope, just the default 60Hz

Ok, that's explain all.
On my system Tearing appers anly @24Hz.

Also, PowerStrip 3.86 was released this month

That's a REAL GOOD NEWS!
I'm going to downaload it now!
Unfortunately I do not have more my pj.
Today I've sold it.
In the next days another one comes in.:)
So I will test 1080p@24Hz.



apparently ATT can also create them, but it doesn't seem too convenient.

Can you explain better "convenient"?
I do not know AtiTrayTool ....

when I get the chance, I'll try 24Hz on my GF9600 if you want.

Thank you.

acta

[6233638]

If it helps at all the official timings are:

1080p 24/50/60:

Horizontal Front Porch: 638 / 528 / 88
Active Horizontal Pixels: 1920
Horizontal Total: 2750 / 2640 / 2200
Horizontal Sync Width: 44

Vertical Front Porch: 4
Active Vertical Lines: 1080
Vertical Total: 1125
Vertical Sync Width: 5

1080p24 timings are applicable to both 23.976Hz & 24.000Hz
1080p50 is 50.000Hz
1080p60 timings apply to 59.940Hz & 60.000Hz

The 1080p24 timings work just as well for 48Hz here too, but I changed the horizontal front porch setting to shift the image over as my CRT was at its maximum range.

[pankov]

1080p24 timings are applicable to both 23.976Hz & 24.000Hz
1080p50 is 50.000Hz
1080p60 timings apply to 59.940Hz & 60.000Hz

what do you mean by "the timings are applicable for both refresh rates"? How is this possible?

[6233638]

what do you mean by "the timings are applicable for both refresh rates"? How is this possible?
Maybe I misread the document (EIA/CEA-861-B) but the only thing that changed was the H.Scan Rate and Pixel Clock.

In the nVidia panel I use the same timings and then in the advanced parameters I tell it I want either 24.000 or 23.976 and I get the correct refresh rate on the screen.

I can say for certain that the timings are definitely right for 24.000, 50.000 and 60.000.

Perhaps I've got 23.976 and 59.940 wrong?

1080p 23.976 / 24.000 / 59.940 / 60.000
H.Freq: 26.973 / 27.000 / 33.716 / 33.750
Pixel Freq: 74.175 / 74.250 / 74.175 / 74.250

(nVidia's control panel sets these automatically)

[pankov]

on a second thought you are absolutely right. There is no problem having everything same except the Pixel Clock and H.Scan rate.
Sorry for not trusting you
;)

[Maldark]

I've just started experimenting with your filter the chroma sampling is much much improved from what i was used to before.

I'm having trouble trying to get gamut conversion working though I have no idea how i'm supposed to use cr3dlut to do it, is there a simple guide somewhere I can follow? I've got my monitor's primaries and it's already calibrated to 2.2 gamma, I just need to do the transform to get rid of the terrible oversaturation.

Any help would be awesome!

[yesgrey]

is there a simple guide somewhere I can follow?
Only the readme...
I've got my monitor's primaries and it's already calibrated to 2.2 gamma
If you want, post here your primaries and white point coordinates and I will help you. ;)

[stumped]

is madVR a codec or a video render thing like EVR?

I'm really confused as to what exactly it is. I tried it last night with a straight blu-ray copy of 007 Casino Royale (audio converted to 5.1 dolby and remuxed, not recompressed into a .mkv file) and it stuttered. I'm pretty sure the gpu in my laptop can handle it (ATi Radeon Mobility HD4530 w/ 512MB gpu memory)

If madVR is only a rendering system and not a codec, can i use CoreAVC along with it?

Thanks and sorry if this has already been answered.

[Astrophizz]

It's a video renderer and you can use CoreAVC with it. I'm not sure why it stuttered though.

[yesgrey]

it stuttered. I'm pretty sure the gpu in my laptop can handle it (ATi Radeon Mobility HD4530 w/ 512MB gpu memory)
At which resolution are you watching? If it's less than 1920x1080 try changing the luma downscaling. It defaults to Lanczos4 and that's too much gpu intensive; try Softcubic50, you will not notice any quality diference.

[Thunderbolt8]

check your notebook CPU usage.

[zn]

Anyone can confirm that it will not with Intel GMA X3100?

[stumped]

It's a video renderer and you can use CoreAVC with it. I'm not sure why it stuttered though.

At which resolution are you watching? If it's less than 1920x1080 try changing the luma downscaling. It defaults to Lanczos4 and that's too much gpu intensive; try Softcubic50, you will not notice any quality diference.

Thanks you for the responses. I was watching at 1920x1080. I should have tried it on my laptop's native res of 1600x900. Also, i'm utterly confused as to how to use cr3dlut. i read both the simple readme and the long readme, and i can't for the life of me figure out how to create a .lut for my blu-ray rips. if anyone can post a commandline of a cr3dlut and 1080p h.264 material (striahgt blu-ray rip, not a recompress) then i'd so be glad. Also, i'm gonna switch to 32bit Win7 and Vista (haven't tested madVR in vista yet) see if that helps with anything.

How do i go about changing the luma downscaling? I've tried in both the special MPC-HC builds along with the latest MPC-HC build, and no luck finding anything like that.

Also, if i can figure out how to get this working i might use it on my new HTPc (785g board with amd 4600+)

[Matthias Hutter]

My template textfile is
Input_Bit_Depth 8
Input_Video_Format HD YCbCr
Output_Bit_Depth 16
Output_Video_Format HD RGB_PC
Output_Primaries 9 [insert display color primaries here]
The comandline is (with HD_PC beeing the template):
C:\Program Files\madVR\cr3dlut>cr3dlut.exe HD_PC.txt HD_PC.3dlut
Then place the .3dlut files in the madvr Folder and name it "HD - PC.3dlut".

Next, you need to make shure that the input is YV12
Then you can find the options in: right click-> Filter -> MadVR Renderer. Be shure to check "Use 3D Lut"

Regards, Matt

[leeperry]

ok, new KMP version arose today..and it supports mVR http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/2/binaryprocess.gif

http://www.kmplayer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14901&page=2

http://thumbnails15.imagebam.com/4863/cc4f7d48623108.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/cc4f7d48623108)

hopefully it won't drop frames after 1H of playtime like in MPC?! or maybe some newer mVR build will stick to the VSYNC more tightly :o

PS: humm, mVR is far smoother than HR in 96Hz...I will try 89.91Hz now :p

PS2: oops, it tears at the very top of the screen and stutters a bit in 89.91Hz..

[chuuey]

for some reason i can't get this renderer to display any image, used ffdshow, coreavc filter, nothing displays any image, with multiple mkvs tested, using mac mini with geforce9400m 128mb vram, going to upgrade ram to get 256mb for vram but i read that 128 is the minimum hence it should work?

[yesgrey]

for some reason i can't get this renderer to display any image
Are you feeding madVR with YV12?

[chuuey]

yeah, i even tried to deselect all other output modules in CoreAVC and just leave YV12 on, still the playback doesn't start and mpc-hc crashes

[leeperry]

humm, and there's still the problem that mVR won't always catch the VSYNC properly w/ Reclock when opening a new file...reseeking is required. HR never misses it :o

[chuuey]

Are you feeding madVR with YV12?

I think it has something to do with the graphics card, since it's 128vram, i tried on another machine at my house with exactly same codec settings, worked like a charm but that card has 512mb

[yesgrey]

I think it has something to do with the graphics card, since it's 128vram
Try disabling the 3dlut option in madVR's settings.