madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[4h4h270]

after update to madvr .90.2 everything work fine on my system, happy! :D

just playback a whole movie for test, get some present glitch and frame drop ocasionally, and a massive frame drop during playback at half time, I pause it for some sceconds, it's gone.

[x7007]

I have Present Queue issue, when watching 1080p the present queue drops randomly to 1-2/3 and sometimes 0-2/3 and I have presentation glitches and sometimes dropped frames.

[Warner306]

I have Present Queue issue, when watching 1080p the present queue drops randomly to 1-2/3 and sometimes 0-2/3 and I have presentation glitches and sometimes dropped frames.

Your settings are too aggressive. Try lowering them slightly or using some of the trade quality for performance checkboxes.

[apgood]

One thing I haven't tried is Crimson vs Catalyst (I only tried with Catalyst 14.12). This bug could have been fixed with Crimson, which is quite a big redesign.

- Is it only AMD users who complain about this re 3D with LAV+MadVR?

- Has any AMD owner managed to get 3D to work with LAV+MadVR without the perspective/eye reverse AMD Bug?

- If any AMD user managed to get 3D to work properly, are they using Catalyst or Crimson drivers?
I'm using the latest version of the AMD Crimson drivers and while my projector switches in 3D mode it does seem to have any depth to it (i.e. just looks like 2D).

This is on Windows 10 pro and player is jriver MC.

Note: I haven't tried MadVR 90.2 yet though.

[jmone]

Ok - I've had it working twice but not consistently. In all cases I'm getting NV12, 8bit, 4:2:0 (3D) (so LAV is decoding), but most of the time I ether get:
- D3D9 & Side By Side, or
- MC Crashes

I'll test more tomorrow but no obvious pattern, as after one play it stopped working the second time.

[apgood]

Ok - I've had it working twice but not consistently. In all cases I'm getting NV12, 8bit, 4:2:0 (3D) (so LAV is decoding), but most of the time I ether get:
- D3D9 & Side By Side, or
- MC Crashes

I'll test more tomorrow but no obvious pattern, as after one play it stopped working the second time.
Mine was more stable when I unticked the switching to 2D for 2D movies option in MadVR, but haven't tried it often enough to confirm this has fixed the crashing in MC

[omarank]

Oh, good catch. Will have to disable SmoothMotion forcefully, when using 3D. Probably makes no sense to have it enabled, anyway, since movie and display refresh will should always match when playing 3D.
Right.

Reproduced and "fixed" (by always using 8bit for 3D).
Yes, it’s fixed in v0.90.2. I guess Direct3D doesn’t allow 10 bit for 3D output.

Interesting. I've now modified the logic to always assume 1080p23 for 3D playback. Hope it fixes this issue. Can you confirm?
Yes, it fixes the issue as tested with the 3D MKV sample I have, but there are two things to consider here:
1. In India, Blu Rays are mastered at 24 fps and not 23.976 fps. I guess it happens the same in most other PAL countries too. So ideally you should force 23p/ 24p for 3D playback depending upon the source fps, if you aren’t already doing that.
2. When you implement processing of SBS and TBB content, for the broadcasted SBS/ TBB you may want to output 50p/ 60p frame packed 3D. However, such content is rare and 3D is anyway not so popular.

That's weird. It works for me. Just to be safe, can you try making the monitor primary, if it's still secondary right now?
I was outputting to only one display – TV. But this problem is fixed in v0.90.2. So no worries.

[Manni]

I'm using the latest version of the AMD Crimson drivers and while my projector switches in 3D mode it does seem to have any depth to it (i.e. just looks like 2D).

This is on Windows 10 pro and player is jriver MC.

Note: I haven't tried MadVR 90.2 yet though.

Thanks. This is what I experienced when LAV wasn't installed properly.

Please install the latest MadVR and lastest LAV (not sure if jRiver uses its own versions though, you might want to use MPC-BE to be able to test the independent versions of LAV and MadVR) and report what MadVR displays in the OSD, just to be sure everything is working as it should. It should report 3D both for content and rendering, which is what it does on my system.

Also does your display switch to 1080p24 (FP)? Does it work in 3D with PowerDVD or similar? You can install a demo of PowerDVD if you don't own it, just to make sure your system and display are able to play 3D properly.

[TheRyuu]

Hey everybpdy, someone could tell me what the new luma scalling option use sigmoidal light does? when should i use this? should i leave this aways check like linear light on downscalle?
Sometimes it improves upscaling quality by reducing aliasing and ringing slightly. Sometimes it can also increase aliasing and ringing, though. So it needs some serious testing to come to a conclusion whether it should be enabled by default or not.

I asked for the option after noticing some differences between madvr and mpv and their scaling. It can be very subtle but can also be obvious on certain things. In my experience with it I'd say it's likely to be better most or all of the time and it's unlikely to be noticeably worse so I think it's safe to always have on. For comparison mpv always uses sigmoidal upscaling with their opengl-hq video out driver.

Scaling (only) in linear light is only useful for downscaling in case anyone was wondering why the option was replaced. Sigmoidal upscaling actually implies scaling in linear light.

I have Present Queue issue, when watching 1080p the present queue drops randomly to 1-2/3 and sometimes 0-2/3 and I have presentation glitches and sometimes dropped frames.

Remind us again what's wrong with using the default settings for those?

[Aleksoid1978]

madshi - i check latest version, don't work 3D, only side-by-side picture.
I try set TV as primary device, set only only TV in system - don't help.
Try reset settings - don't help.

[Sunset1982]

Is 3d supported in the profile rules? Cause watching 3D movies raises my rendertimes to 75ms and I get dropped frames because it selects my 23p profile...

[madshi]

madVR doesn't activate the correct interlacing mode (film) for PAL sample (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1752069#post1752069) and switches to 50 Hz with default deinterlacing settings (+ LAV's YADIF disabled + ReClock's PAL speed down enabled).
Currently madVR doesn't have a good auto-detection for film mode vs video mode. So unless you force film mode, madVR always uses DXVA deinterlacing in double frame rate. That is currently by design.

I'm using the latest version of the AMD Crimson drivers and while my projector switches in 3D mode it does seem to have any depth to it (i.e. just looks like 2D).

This is on Windows 10 pro and player is jriver MC.

Note: I haven't tried MadVR 90.2 yet though.
Please try v0.90.2. If that doesn't help, please browse through the AMD control panel to see if there's any setting there which you might have changed which might make a difference. Try to set everything to "application controlled" or default settings.

Ok - I've had it working twice but not consistently. In all cases I'm getting NV12, 8bit, 4:2:0 (3D) (so LAV is decoding), but most of the time I ether get:
- D3D9 & Side By Side, or
- MC Crashes

I'll test more tomorrow but no obvious pattern, as after one play it stopped working the second time.
Interesting. NVidia, right?

Does any AMD or Intel user have 3D crashes? I think it's limited to NVidia? On my PC it doesn't occur, though (as usual :().

Yes, it fixes the issue as tested with the 3D MKV sample I have, but there are two things to consider here:
1. In India, Blu Rays are mastered at 24 fps and not 23.976 fps. I guess it happens the same in most other PAL countries too. So ideally you should force 23p/ 24p for 3D playback depending upon the source fps, if you aren’t already doing that.
2. When you implement processing of SBS and TBB content, for the broadcasted SBS/ TBB you may want to output 50p/ 60p frame packed 3D. However, such content is rare and 3D is anyway not so popular.
Yes, I'm aware of 23p vs 24p. But for now I just wanted to stick to the most common standard and make that stable first, before looking at corner cases.

My projector doesn't support frame packed 3D at 50p/60p, AFAIK. I'm not sure if many other display do?

i check latest version, don't work 3D, only side-by-side picture.
I try set TV as primary device, set only only TV in system - don't help.
Try reset settings - don't help.
If you do that (primary device), do you then get a 3D checkbox in your OS display resolution control panel (see screenshots for Windows 8.1 and 10 earlier in this thread)? This is the key thing you need to achieve. If you don't get that checkbox, then Direct3D11 will most probably not allow me to switch to 3D.

Do you use some sort of EDID override? It seems to me that your OS doesn't recognize that your display can do 3D. We need to find out why. Maybe if you don't have an EDID override now, it might be worth trying to do one which announces 3D support, so the OS and GPU actually understand that your display can do 3D?

Is 3d supported in the profile rules?
Not yet, but probably next weekend.

[Aleksoid1978]

If you do that (primary device), do you then get a 3D checkbox in your OS display resolution control panel (see screenshots for Windows 8.1 and 10 earlier in this thread)? This is the key thing you need to achieve. If you don't get that checkbox, then Direct3D11 will most probably not allow me to switch to 3D.

Do you use some sort of EDID override? It seems to me that your OS doesn't recognize that your display can do 3D. We need to find out why. Maybe if you don't have an EDID override now, it might be worth trying to do one which announces 3D support, so the OS and GPU actually understand that your display can do 3D?


I don't have 3D options in OS (Win 10 Ent x64) - but PowerDVD/TMT playback in 3D perfect.

[Sunset1982]

Originally Posted by madshi
Oh well, then I don't know why it's not working for you. It seems to be a problem with the GPU drivers (?). You could try reinstalling those, or try a different version.

tried 3-4 different versions. no difference. any other idea?



Originally Posted by madshi
Not yet, but probably next weekend.

that would be great! thx.



Ok - I've had it working twice but not consistently. In all cases I'm getting NV12, 8bit, 4:2:0 (3D) (so LAV is decoding), but most of the time I ether get:
- D3D9 & Side By Side, or
- MC Crashes

I'll test more tomorrow but no obvious pattern, as after one play it stopped working the second time.

same problems here. GTX 970 (361.60), Win 10, all latest software and 64bit.

[apgood]

Thanks. This is what I experienced when LAV wasn't installed properly.

Please install the latest MadVR and lastest LAV (not sure if jRiver uses its own versions though, you might want to use MPC-BE to be able to test the independent versions of LAV and MadVR) and report what MadVR displays in the OSD, just to be sure everything is working as it should. It should report 3D both for content and rendering, which is what it does on my system.

Also does your display switch to 1080p24 (FP)? Does it work in 3D with PowerDVD or similar? You can install a demo of PowerDVD if you don't own it, just to make sure your system and display are able to play 3D properly.
I did replace the versions in jriver with latest nightlies of LAV (dated 13 Jan) and MadVR (90.1 at the time) and my projector was reporting that was receiving a 3D frame packed video stream it just doesn't look 3D. Also, when I disabled 3D in MadVR it was displaying a SBS video stream so I assume it was working.

I have a PowerDVD license and uses to use it for 3D viewing but don't really like it, so I swapped to a Mede8er for 3D movies which handles 3D really well, but if I can get a LAV and MadVR combo to work then I'll probably switch to that because the zoom functionality is so seamless in changing aspect ratios on my scope screen.

Good idea. I'll try to get some time tomorrow night to install mpc-be as a control just to make sure it isn't can issue with jriver mc and I how I've installed LAV.

[madshi]

I don't have 3D options in OS (Win 10 Ent x64) - but PowerDVD/TMT playback in 3D perfect.
As I mentioned earlier, PowerDVD/TMT probably use a special protected media playback path offered by Microsoft, which has the main purpose of protecting content from being ripped. See here:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa376846(v=vs.85).aspx#pmp

Using that path requires MediaFoundation and uses a special video renderer which you cannot replace and probably runs through different GPU driver routines and uses different APIs. Because of all that what PowerDVD/TMT do is *VERY* different to what madVR does. If we wanted to achieve the same result as PowerDVD/TMT, then MPC-HC/BE would have to use a MediaFoundation 3D splitter and decoder, which would have to be specially code-signed to work inside of the protect media playback path, and MPC-HC/BE would then have to use the stock OS video renderer, because the video renderer can not be replaced in the protected media player path. So this would be the opposite of using madVR.

I can only work with the APIs that the OS offers to me, which is Direct3D11, which is the same that games etc can use. I'm pretty sure that games will not be able to output 3D on your PC, either.

You didn't answer my question, though: Are you currently using an EDID override of some sorts?

tried 3-4 different versions. no difference. any other idea?
You could try going through the GPU control panel to see if anything is set to non-default values. Try "application controlled" everywhere, and default values where "application controlled" is not available. Also disable GSync, FreeSync, or other related extra features.

when I disabled 3D in MadVR it was displaying a SBS video stream so I assume it was working.
No no no. If you disable 3D in madVR, you're supposed to see simple 2D, not SBS!!!

Are you really playing an MVC MKV? Or are you playing an SBS encoded MKV? Those are two *totally* different things. The new 3D support is atm only for MVC MKVs, which are straight remuxes from 3D-BluRay to MKV by using MakeMKV. MKVs encoded as side-by-side are not supported atm.

[Aleksoid1978]

I not using any EDID override.

[Aleksoid1978]

About PowerDVD - it's not MediaFoundation. It's use a DirectShow mechanism.

[GCRaistlin]

Currently madVR doesn't have a good auto-detection for film mode vs video mode. So unless you force film mode, madVR always uses DXVA deinterlacing in double frame rate. That is currently by design.
Do I understand it right then that the best practice currently is to have madVR's "forced film mode" set (as the most interlaced sources are telecined and, besides that, DXVA deinterlacing doesn't work properly in a number of cases) and to enable LAV's YADIF video mode deinterlacing when playing natively interlaced videos?

[madshi]

About PowerDVD - it's not MediaFoundation. It's use a DirectShow mechanism.
The Microsoft "protected media path" is based on MediaFoundation and I believe all official players like PowerDVD/TMT *must* use it to protect the content. Maybe PowerDVD uses DirectShow for unprotected sources, but I don't think they're allowed to do that for protected content. Or am I wrong?

I not using any EDID override.
Ok. Might make sense then to analyze your display's EDID to double check whether it announces 3D support or not. Can you please create a report with this tool:

http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

Please use the "real-time" information for your 3D display, and do "File -> Save Report".

Do I understand it right then that the best practice currently is to have madVR's "forced film mode" set (as the most interlaced sources are telecined and, besides that, DXVA deinterlacing doesn't work properly in a number of cases) and to enable LAV's YADIF video mode deinterlacing when playing natively interlaced videos?
That depends on how many telecined and how many native video sources you're typically using. The "set-and-forget" option would be video/DXVA deinterlacing. If you're willing to manually switch based on the exact video source you're playing, then I'd switch between forced film mode and either DXVA or YADIF. Usually DXVA is better than YADIF, but sometimes YADIF might be better. Might depend on the video source, and also on the GPU. DXVA algorithms are totally different between different GPU manufacturers and sometimes even models or drivers.

[Aleksoid1978]

Here moninfo - http://pastebin.com/F9gSN8TE

[Aleksoid1978]

madshi - you say that use D3D11 for 3D output. As i understand you use side-by-side packing type ??

I read some about D3D11 stereo format here https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh447669%28v=vs.85%29.aspx and here i see info about row interleaved format.

Here https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh447667%28v=vs.85%29.aspx write about stereo 3D capabilities for D3D11. And here we have too some info about row interleaved capabilities.

Maybe you do some test utilites or log/debug in madVR - that we can see stereo 3D capabilities for D3D11 and supported 3D format ??

Maybe it's help :)

[Sunset1982]

ok, I'll give it up for now. Can't get 3D running in with madvr/nvdia/win10.

I'll wait till end 2016 to get a new gen AMD card. Hopefully madvr's 3d support has fewer problems till then and I hope it will work with a new AMD card.

Maybe we should donate to get madshi a testrig with win10/nvidia card to investigate the problems further?

[XTrojan]

Regarding the 3D, I use stereoscopic player with "Side By Side" 4k 23p Playback, this makes the movie 1080P (1920x2160) and not half vertical res as most SBS converts.

The reason behind this is because MVC subtitles generally are buggy with MKV because there's no subtitle plane tracking in the MKV container, this will make the subtitles 2D, and if the movie is 16:9 the 3D effect will cut through the subtitles, often disrupting the viewing and making it annoying, if not dangerous for the eyes.

The only way to fix this "bug" on MVC MKVs was by putting the MVC video on the right and the 2D on left with subtitles on both sides and playing it side by side, if you don't have a 4k TV this would cut vertical res in half as said, but it's better than buggy playback.
Another thing is that you can't use .srt subtitles with MVC 3D effect as far as i'm aware, you need the original pgs in .m2ts container with the MVC VUI/SEI.

I wonder if you'll add this onto MadVR, as it would be a great feature if you can't fix the MKV 3D MVC subtitles.

[madshi]

Here moninfo - http://pastebin.com/F9gSN8TE
Hmmmm... I'm not 100% sure how to interpret this report. It could indicate that your display supports all the mandatory 3D formats, plus some more resolutions as "top-and-bottom". But it could also be interpreted as saying that your display only supports "top-and-bottom", but not "frame packed".

Then according to your earlier report, you've setup your display to be "row interleaved". That's one more 3D format, which is different from side-by-side and frame packed. The moninfo report doesn't say anything about row interleaved, but it's possible that the moninfo report isn't complete, I don't know, because "row interleaved" is pretty exotic.

Right now my best guess is that your display doesn't support frame packed 3D. Or at least that the OS and/or your GPU drivers think that it doesn't. Are you sure that it does?

If you think that your display does support frame packed 3D, then one thing you could is to make an EDID override to make it clearer to the OS and your GPU that frame packed 3D is supported. This process is explained here:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/jj133967(v=vs.85).aspx
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/1091403-edid-override-thread.html

One quick try would be to use the EDID of my projector with which 3D frame packed playback works just fine:

http://madshi.net/jvc.inf

If you decide to test this, I think you have to reboot after doing the EDID override. Afterwards, if you're using an NVidia GPU, please make your 3D TV primary monitor, then close and reopen the OS display resolution control panel. Do you then finally see the 3D checkbox appear there?

You could also try installing 3D Vision (not "3dtv play", which I think is something else), just to check if it makes a difference.

you say that use D3D11 for 3D output. As i understand you use side-by-side packing type ??
I'm telling Direct3D11/DXGI to output 3D. Which exact format the output is sent as it not under my control. It should usually be "frame packed" and not side-by-side. My projector reports that it's receiving "frame packed" 3D, from all Intel, NVidia and AMD GPUs.

I read some about D3D11 stereo format here https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh447669%28v=vs.85%29.aspx and here i see info about row interleaved format.

Here https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh447667%28v=vs.85%29.aspx write about stereo 3D capabilities for D3D11. And here we have too some info about row interleaved capabilities.
These are D3D11 DXVA processing properties. They affect the way DXVA processes video. I don't think this has much to do with actual 3D output to the display, because DXVA just processes, it doesn't output/present.

Maybe you do some test utilites or log/debug in madVR - that we can see stereo 3D capabilities for D3D11 and supported 3D format ??
I've searched up and down the internet. There is not even an official API that allows me to ask whether the current display is stereo, let alone tell me which type of stereo! E.g. normally you would use EnumDisplaySettings(Ex) to ask the current display mode. But it doesn't return any information about stereo.

The only thing I can do is ask DXGI to return a list of supported display modes. Some of them are marked with a "stereo" boolean value. That's all I get. And when presenting 3D, all I can do is tell Direct3D11/DXGI that I want to render & present stereo content. I can't configure whether I want frame packed, side-by-side, row interleaved or whatever. That's all outside of my control.

Regarding the 3D, I use stereoscopic player with "Side By Side" 4k 23p Playback, this makes the movie 1080P (1920x2160) and not half vertical res as most SBS converts.
And your TV actually understands that? I think that's one possible 3D format, but not a lot of TVs can handle it.

The reason behind this is because MVC subtitles generally are buggy with MKV because there's no subtitle plane tracking in the MKV container, this will make the subtitles 2D, and if the movie is 16:9 the 3D effect will cut through the subtitles, often disrupting the viewing and making it annoying, if not dangerous for the eyes.

The only way to fix this "bug" on MVC MKVs was by putting the MVC video on the right and the 2D on left with subtitles on both sides and playing it side by side, if you don't have a 4k TV this would cut vertical res in half as said, but it's better than buggy playback.
Another thing is that you can't use .srt subtitles with MVC 3D effect as far as i'm aware, you need the original pgs in .m2ts container with the MVC VUI/SEI.

I wonder if you'll add this onto MadVR, as it would be a great feature if you can't fix the MKV 3D MVC subtitles.
I don't subtitles should be a problem for the way madVR renders 3D. madVR simply draws all subtitles on both left and right eye view at the same position. I think that should work just fine.

Maybe we should donate to get madshi a testrig with win10/nvidia card to investigate the problems further?
I have an nvidia windows 8.1 machine and 3D works just fine here. I will probably upgrade to windows 10 sooner or later, but I doubt it will make a difference.

[Manni]

ok, I'll give it up for now. Can't get 3D running in with madvr/nvdia/win10.

I'll wait till end 2016 to get a new gen AMD card. Hopefully madvr's 3d support has fewer problems till then and I hope it will work with a new AMD card.

Maybe we should donate to get madshi a testrig with win10/nvidia card to investigate the problems further?

Before switching to AMD, better make sure there is at least one user able to display 3D with MadVR + LAV on AMD without the same bug as with stereoscopic player.

I have an AMD HD7870 (as per sig) and although LAV+MadVR do display 3D and report source and render in 3D, the depth isn't correct because there is a one frame delay on one of the eyes. This is a bug in the AMD driver, and isn't something Nev or Madshi can do anything about.

See https://community.amd.com/thread/168983 for more details.

I'm still waiting for someone to confirm this is working on AMD, and with which driver (I'm using Catalyst and haven't tried with Crimson).

[har3inger]

I have some quick feedback re: chroma superres.

From what I can see, the superres for chroma is quite similar to the superres for image refinement right now. However, while the algorithm is great for luma, it's not good for chroma. In luma, superres enhances small details and edges by increasing contrast (darks become darker, lights become lighter at image transients), and the same happens to the chroma layers. However, in chroma, light vs dark is actually green vs red, or blue vs yellow, etc. When the edges have their contrast increased, you get increased wrong-color ringing.

In actual content, I haven't found any live action image that actually looks different with SR on or off. In cartoon, it can help in many situations, but also increase artifacts and ringing in others. It's also quite dependent on source quality. All in all, I don't find the performance hit to be really worth it.

[6233638]

I'll have to do some testing to see when this changed, but I just watched my first PAL DVD in some time, and noticed that srcHeight is using the cropped values again, instead of the source height, so it ended up using my NTSC profile instead.

As a temporary fix I've had to change my profile rules to use uncroppedsrcHeight. (I still think that should be how srcHeight always works...)

[apgood]

No no no. If you disable 3D in madVR, you're supposed to see simple 2D, not SBS!!!

Are you really playing an MVC MKV? Or are you playing an SBS encoded MKV? Those are two *totally* different things. The new 3D support is atm only for MVC MKVs, which are straight remuxes from 3D-BluRay to MKV by using MakeMKV. MKVs encoded as side-by-side are not supported atm.

It is definitely not SBS or OU as it will play as normal 2D of I play it in jriver, but was a few months ago that I converted it to a 3D mkv.

Sorry from memory I can't remember if I had all the 3D tick boxes unticked in MadVR or just the 3D switching for 3D movies one.

Hopefully I'll get more time tonight to play around with it and I'll convert a 3D mk with the latest version of makemkv.

I'll also note what is outputted depending on which tick boxes are ticked in the 3D section of MadVR.

[leeperry]

The best OS for video playback currently seems to be Windows 8.1. It's better than Windows 7 because it has a much better desktop composition.
Fair enough, but does it matter if we don't like Aero and have it disabled in W7? It's not all that clear whether DWM is just the fancy name for that Aero thing that makes desktop windows transparent :o

[MSL_DK]

Hello ... I just bought a Panasonic TX-55CX700. I have a problem with obtaining 1080p/60Hz 4:4:4. AMD is set to Full RGB. madVR to 0-255. Panasonic is set to "HDMI RGB RANGE" Full. But the only thing I see is 4:2:2. Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong. I had no problem with my Samsung TV.

[AngelGraves13]

Fair enough, but does it matter if we don't like Aero and have it disabled in W7? It's not all that clear whether DWM is just the fancy name for that Aero thing that makes desktop windows transparent :o

Leave Aero enabled, but disable transparency. That way your desktop is drawn in 3D instead of 2D.

[leeperry]

Leave Aero enabled, but disable transparency. That way your desktop is drawn in 3D instead of 2D.
Thing is, I don't even like the "glass" effects and I don't see why I should pay for GPU consumption when using the windows desktop. It can apparently be disabled(at least in W7) (http://www.sevenforums.com/customization/78746-can-horrible-glass-effect-removed.html) but I'm mostly asking whether DWM has any impact on mVR itself. I don't see what's wrong with 2D desktop windows, that's how I like them anyway. If I want to be thrilled by my GPU, I just fire up mVR :scared:

[Aleksoid1978]

Question to all - anybody who have LG TV(or other TV models with "passive 3D") can do 3D output using madVR ??

[jmone]

I think I've found the 3D issue for me in MC and it has something to do with "Bookmarks" and how playback is commenced (100% repeatable):
- If I play the 3D MKV from the beginning it works.
- If I seek while playing it works.
- If I double stop (reset book mark) then playback will commence from the beginning and 3D works
- If I stop/play (so playback commences from where I left off and not from the begining) it will go to SBS / using D3D9. If I try to force D3D11 in the madVR Settings it will crash MC.

My test setup was as simple as I could get it:
- Fresh install of madVR with default settings (but Windows Exclusive unchecked) No other changes
- Put Win 10 64-Bit Desktop into 3D
- Put the nVidia Control Panel into 1080/23hz/3D (so no switching is required by madVR)
- Commence playback testing

I'll cross post this over at MC as well.

Thanks
Nathan

[ryrynz]

Hello ... I just bought a Panasonic TX-55CX700. I have a problem with obtaining 1080p/60Hz 4:4:4. AMD is set to Full RGB. madVR to 0-255. Panasonic is set to "HDMI RGB RANGE" Full. But the only thing I see is 4:2:2. Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong. I had no problem with my Samsung TV.

Try 24hz?

[har3inger]

I have a bug on my setup that cropped up recently, after the 90.x builds, not sure if anyone else experiences this:

Subtitles rendered in black bars will play at 1x speed even if video is set to 2x speed. Leads to desync.

[huhn]

Hello ... I just bought a Panasonic TX-55CX700. I have a problem with obtaining 1080p/60Hz 4:4:4. AMD is set to Full RGB. madVR to 0-255. Panasonic is set to "HDMI RGB RANGE" Full. But the only thing I see is 4:2:2. Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong. I had no problem with my Samsung TV.

go to picture -> options settings and use 1080p Pixel by 4 pixels it's the closes you can get at 1080p. pure direct mode should result in a better all over picture. but chroma test picture doesn't really work.
the general scaler in this TV is bad.

UHD 4:4:4 works flawlessly with 4K pure direct mode.

23p doesn't really work on this TV so don't bother. is smooth motion or judder.

feel free to make a new thread I know a lot about this screen.

[AngelGraves13]

Thing is, I don't even like the "glass" effects and I don't see why I should pay for GPU consumption when using the windows desktop. It can apparently be disabled(at least in W7) (http://www.sevenforums.com/customization/78746-can-horrible-glass-effect-removed.html) but I'm mostly asking whether DWM has any impact on mVR itself. I don't see what's wrong with 2D desktop windows, that's how I like them anyway. If I want to be thrilled by my GPU, I just fire up mVR :scared:

Almost everything will benefit from having it on. Try dragging a window around back and forth with it on and off. Which looks smoother?

[Warner306]

Try 24hz?

Post deleted.

[omarank]

My projector doesn't support frame packed 3D at 50p/60p, AFAIK. I'm not sure if many other display do?

I am not sure either, but if there is a utility to check that capability different users can confirm whether their TV has it or not.

And when presenting 3D, all I can do is tell Direct3D11/DXGI that I want to render & present stereo content. I can't configure whether I want frame packed, side-by-side, row interleaved or whatever. That's all outside of my control.

I think you can create Row/Column Interleaved and Checkerboard frames from stereo frames and output as 2D, just like you output SBS as a fallback method. For passive 3D sets, Row/Column Interleaved output should result in higher image quality as compared to frame packed 3D where the TV will use its internal processing to convert to Interleaved.

[Aleksoid1978]

I think you can create Row/Column Interleaved and Checkerboard frames from stereo frames and output as 2D, just like you output SBS as a fallback method. For passive 3D sets, Row/Column Interleaved output should result in higher image quality as compared to frame packed 3D where the TV will use its internal processing to convert to Interleaved.

It's a good idea, i think it's can help :)

[leeperry]

Almost everything will benefit from having it on.
even FSE?

[TheRyuu]

even FSE?

FSE, like its name implies, will bypass the DWM. So from that standpoint it's neutral. But you really shouldn't have to disable the dwm for anything.

[XTrojan]

And your TV actually understands that? I think that's one possible 3D format, but not a lot of TVs can handle it.


I don't subtitles should be a problem for the way madVR renders 3D. madVR simply draws all subtitles on both left and right eye view at the same position. I think that should work just fine.


I have an nvidia windows 8.1 machine and 3D works just fine here. I will probably upgrade to windows 10 sooner or later, but I doubt it will make a difference.

It's basically 23fps 2160p, but when you enable "side by side" or "over under", vertical or horizontal resolution gets cut in half as it combines two sides into 3D or over/under into 3D. Most TVs should support this, it doesn't require 3D planes either since one side = one eye, and subtitles are rendered at both. The downside is that 4k is needed otherwise it's gonna be something like 960x1080 or 1920x540, no software is needed as the TV does all of the work, the player only needs to show the MVC stream at right or left and 2D stream at other, with subtitles at both.

http://www.roadtovr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/avatar-sbs-example.jpeg
Side by Side without the TV combining them to 3D, MVC stream at right, original at left.

If MadVR can handle 3D subtitles without it bugging, then sure I have no issues using frame-packed, it's just that my past experience subtitles are 2D which is unacceptable or they are 3D but without the 3D information/plane which causes buggyness.

[leeperry]

FSE, like its name implies, will bypass the DWM. So from that standpoint it's neutral. But you really shouldn't have to disable the dwm for anything.
Thought so, so to make myself perfectly clear that quote from madshi doesn't appear to apply to FSE in which case W7 is just as good as W8?

I don't care for bs 3D effects on my desktop windows and I only care for FSE in mVR.

[Qaq]

I just bought a Panasonic TX-55CX700. I have a problem with obtaining 1080p/60Hz 4:4:4. AMD is set to Full RGB. madVR to 0-255. Panasonic is set to "HDMI RGB RANGE" Full. But the only thing I see is 4:2:2. Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong. I had no problem with my Samsung TV.
AFAIK, Panasonic always (any model) converts RGB to YCbCr 4:2:2 for internal processing. Last series are capable to pass YCbCr 4:4:4 in 'pure direct' mode, but I'm not sure its same for TX-55CX700 and anyway with YCbCr in the videodriver you will lose luma information even more than chroma with RGB.

[MrBonk]

Fair enough, but does it matter if we don't like Aero and have it disabled in W7? It's not all that clear whether DWM is just the fancy name for that Aero thing that makes desktop windows transparent :o

Video Playback in the old DX9 exclusive pack is essentially perfect here with Aero disabled in W7.

Aero is horse garbage anyway, input lag and performance issues and stuttering galore when it interacts with things it shouldn't..
Not giving people the ability to disable Vsync after W7 is strange.

Thought so, so to make myself perfectly clear that quote from madshi doesn't appear to apply to FSE in which case W7 is just as good as W8?

I don't care for bs 3D effects on my desktop windows and I only care for FSE in mVR.

DWM in W7 isn't good. But also enabling Aero in W7 is what enables DX11 FSE, with Aero disabled it uses DX9 FSE.
In my past testing with a GTX 980, DX9 FSE had faster rendering times.

The only benefit from DWM in W7 is Vsync when streaming video through a web browser.

[XTrojan]

I have a question regarding the upcoming UHD Blurays.

Will Dolby HDR and HDR10 be supported? And how will ripping work with HDCP 2.2 protection?

I heard that currently Nvidia nor AMD doesn't support HDR, but upcoming AMD Polaris will.

[sneaker_ger]

And how will ripping work with HDCP 2.2 protection?
Decrypting will likely be your responsibility, madVR does not use any protected paths, i.e. a HDCP display would not be required.
But as of today there are neither discs nor decryption software available. It's too early for those questions.

I heard that currently Nvidia nor AMD doesn't support HDR, but upcoming AMD Polaris will.
Currently no special HDR hardware support is required by madvr as it does not output any HDR metadata. Madshi explained it at bit here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1749826&postcount=34630

Full fixed function 10 bit HEVC decoding is currently only available on Nvidia GeForce GTX 750 SE, GTX 950, GTX 960. For AMD and Intel it will probably come with Polaris/Kaby Lake. A fast CPU might be able to at least do 2160p24 in software, though.

I will leave the answer about the different HDR variants to madshi but I'm pretty sure not all of them are supported at the moment. Nev and madshi will probably require at least the specs and samples and we might not get the latter before we can decrypt the discs (metadata might even be in playlist file, not HEVC SEI). Let's hope the new encryption will not be too big of a hurdle.