madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[takenori]

Yep, and still nothing done about broken Custom Resolutions.

are you referencing to your post here ?https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1835189&postcount=49376
because i have the same problem with my tv (2013 sony fhd) but not with my monitor (1440p chg70 samsung)

[FDisk80]

are you referencing to your post here ?https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1835189&postcount=49376
because i have the same problem with my tv (2013 sony fhd) but not with my monitor (1440p chg70 samsung)

Yes, this! It looks like the issue might be only with HDTV's and not PC monitors. I reported the issue to nvidia with each driver release, 4 driver releases after nothing is fixed.
Maybe more people need to report this for nvidia to notice. (http://www.nvidia.com/object/driverqualityassurance.html)

[mclingo]

Out of interest, why are people setting custom resolutions in NVIDA when they can be created in MADVR without any fuss, is it so you can create custom bit rates and colour space as well, I dont know much about the NVIDIA side of things though.

[Axelpowa]

Hi everybody!

I've been doing some tests lately with madvr and an oppo203 a friend let me few days.

Something very strange happens to me and I don't know if this is normal or not.

First of all, at the options for calibrating display in madvr, if I set a power curve gamma, the deeper I set the value in the Gamma field the more washed out it gets the image.
So far I know, the higher the gamma, darker it should get.

I use a JVC with a 2.4 gamma at the proyector settings. If I set a gamma of 2.2 in madvr it gets darker and if I set a 2.4 it washes out, if I set 2.6 it washes more.

Aslo regarding to sdr2020 conversion I detected something strange also. I like to test my settings with the last film of Harry Potter.

At arround 1h35 there is some scenes of high hdr content. Very bright images with lots of highlights.

With the oppo doing sdr2020 in this scenes there are a little magenta tones in the highlights.
In madvr this tones dont show up when doing sdr2020 and setting display calibrated to bt2020 , but if I set the display is not calibrated this tones show up exactly as the oppo does.

Also have detected this with faces and with yellow explosions or fire. At the oppo the magenta tint (very subtle) is present and in madvr sdr2020 with display calibrated to bt2020 they are missing.

Also with the color of Bumblebee in Transformers 5, it shows like a yellow lemon desaturated the tone and in oppo it shows a deeper yellow with more magenta mixed, the same as if I turn of the display calibration settings in madvr.

Regards!

[Warner306]

Hi everybody!

I've been doing some tests lately with madvr and an oppo203 a friend let me few days.

Something very strange happens to me and I don't know if this is normal or not.

First of all, at the options for calibrating display in madvr, if I set a power curve gamma, the deeper I set the value in the Gamma field the more washed out it gets the image.
So far I know, the higher the gamma, darker it should get.

I use a JVC with a 2.4 gamma at the proyector settings. If I set a gamma of 2.2 in madvr it gets darker and if I set a 2.4 it washes out, if I set 2.6 it washes more.

Aslo regarding to sdr2020 conversion I detected something strange also. I like to test my settings with the last film of Harry Potter.

At arround 1h35 there is some scenes of high hdr content. Very bright images with lots of highlights.

With the oppo doing sdr2020 in this scenes there are a little magenta tones in the highlights.
In madvr this tones dont show up when doing sdr2020 and setting display calibrated to bt2020 , but if I set the display is not calibrated this tones show up exactly as the oppo does.

Also have detected this with faces and with yellow explosions or fire. At the oppo the magenta tint (very subtle) is present and in madvr sdr2020 with display calibrated to bt2020 they are missing.

Also with the color of Bumblebee in Transformers 5, it shows like a yellow lemon desaturated the tone and in oppo it shows a deeper yellow with more magenta mixed, the same as if I turn of the display calibration settings in madvr.

Regards!

What did you set HDR under devices to? This could alter the image as HDR -> SDR conversion is possible. I'm not sure if the Oppo does this. The image should be identical with native content.

Is it possible your display is calibrated to Rec.709 in SDR mode? When calibration controls are disabled, I think it defaults to Rec.709, but this has not been made clear. No display can do Rec.2020. It would be DCI-P3 at best. As for the gamma, any mismatch would alter the brightness. If you choose the correct value, it should be fine. But again, I think disabling calibration control defaults to a gamma of 2.20, so this is not clear either.

[Axelpowa]

What did you set HDR under devices to? This could alter the image as HDR -> SDR conversion is possible. I'm not sure if the Oppo does this. The image should be identical with native content.

Is it possible your display is calibrated to Rec.709 in SDR mode? When calibration controls are disabled, I think it defaults to Rec.709, but this has not been made clear. No display can do Rec.2020. It would be DCI-P3 at best. As for the gamma, any mismatch would alter the brightness. If you choose the correct value, it should be fine. But again, I think disabling calibration control defaults to a gamma of 2.20, so this is not clear either.

Hi,

Thanks for your answer.

Im setting in madvr hdr to sdr with pixel shader.
At my jvc I have a dedicated slot with gamma 2.4, color temperature 6500 and color profile bt2020.

Its just strange the thing with the gamma power curve.

With the oppo comparing with madcr who knows, they could use different algorithms sure, but to achieve the same result I have to tell madvr as if my display was rec709 instead of bt2020.

Regards!

[StinDaWg]

GTX 960. Latest drivers, latest Win10.

I set up a custom 2160p23 resolution in madVR. This gives a perfect 23.97600 with 1 frame drop every 1 day+.

After I reboot my pc and play a video the framerate changes to 23.978 and composition is listed as 23.980. I am using windowed fullscreen.

If I change madVR to full screen exclusive then the framerate goes back to the correct 23.97600. This is so frustrating. It will not play the correct framerate in windowed mode no matter what I do. I prefer windowed mode.

Is this an Nvidia bug? madVR? Windows?

Has this happened to anyone else?

[Warner306]

Hi,

Thanks for your answer.

Im setting in madvr hdr to sdr with pixel shader.
At my jvc I have a dedicated slot with gamma 2.4, color temperature 6500 and color profile bt2020.

Its just strange the thing with the gamma power curve.

With the oppo comparing with madcr who knows, they could use different algorithms sure, but to achieve the same result I have to tell madvr as if my display was rec709 instead of bt2020.

Regards!

Did you enable gamma processing? According to Asmodian's guide, the gamma setting only matters if you enable gamma processing. This should be turned off.

[Axelpowa]

Did you enable gamma processing? According to Asmodian's guide, the gamma setting only matters if you enable gamma processing. This should be turned off.


I think not, but Im not sure right now.

So far I remember I have nothing active at the tab of color and gamma.

Regards!

[SamuriHL]

I've been away for a while, but, I wanted to report back for those that care that the latest Windows 10 build (which is potentially going to be RTM) and today's nVidia driver have solved my 3D playback issues that I reported a few months ago when I started messing with insider builds. I still get frame drops which is sadly normal for my setup, but, the UI is no longer broken when playing a 3D movie. Hurray...I guess :)

[sneaker_ger]

Win 8.1/Skylake-S (HD 530)
[...]
I tried the "madVR low-end preset for low-end GPUs such as Intel built-in GPUs" settings from LAV Filters Megamix (https://anime.my/tutorials/watching-h264-videos-using-compute-unified-device-architecture-cuda/#checklist) - which should be madVR default anyway.
Dropped frames all over the place...
Even on 4K H.264-AVC MPEG-4 [29.970fps][19Mbps][8bits]...
Show us the OSD (ctrl+j, then screenshot). Maybe RAM is too low? Then you can lower queue sizes (madvr settings -> "rendering" -> "general settings"). Or does this not happen because it can use the system RAM which is plenty?

[MrGlasspoole]

8GB RAM and task manager says 38% usage.
MPC-HC CPU usage goes up to 70% with madVR and QS in LAV.
With copy-back it's ~45%

With EVR the Sony HEVC 59/60fps Videos work up until ~25 seconds and sometimes one minute. Then the sound starts to stutter and slowly the Frame rate in the MPC-HC statistics window is going down.

The attachment is:
4K H.264-AVC MPEG-4 [60.000fps][8-35Mbps][8bits][DD 5.1 (AC-3)] Big Buck Bunny
in madVR.

With EVR this movies video is smooth but sound is totally out of sync. Sync Offset, dropped and Jitter show all 0.

[mclingo]

Sorry guys to bang on about my colour issues again but DCP-P3 is defo not right, still far too red. I've found something else though which i'm hoping might give someone an idea whats going on and its an odd one... this problem stops and reverts colour too normal when I play a movie in 60hz instead of the correct res of 23,976, yup, WTF???

I first thought, well it must be invoking a different profile on my TV so I changed a few settings on 60hz, stopped the movie, went back to 23hz and the settings were still changed so its not a profile on my TV, surely someone must have an idea whats going on now?

anyone?


EDIT - just to make sure I wasnt going made, i've test EVR renderer in 23/60 hz, no issues so has to be an issue with MADVR, not sure what to do with this now, I cant watch everything in 60hz :(

[Warner306]

I think not, but Im not sure right now.

So far I remember I have nothing active at the tab of color and gamma.

Regards!

I found an old post from madshi that claims disable calibration controls sends the source gamut, so you shouldn't be too far off. That could have changed in subsequent builds.

I would suggest trying DCI-P3. Although your projector claims it is displaying Rec.2020, it is almost guaranteed it is less than 100% of DCI-P3. There is a fair difference between the size of the two gamuts.

If selecting DCI-P3 and turning off gamma processing doesn't fix anything, then I don't know what is going on.

[Manni]

I found an old post from madshi that claims disable calibration controls sends the source gamut, so you shouldn't be too far off. That could have changed in subsequent builds.

I would suggest trying DCI-P3. Although your projector claims it is displaying Rec.2020, it is almost guaranteed it is less than 100% of DCI-P3. There is a fair difference between the size of the two gamuts.

If selecting DCI-P3 and turning off gamma processing doesn't fix anything, then I don't know what is going on.

BT2020 is the correct setting on the JVC for HDR content. What counts is not the native gamut (it is true that the JVC reaches about DCI-P3, not BT2020), but the content is encoded into a BT2020 container, so to display it properly you have to select a BT2020 color profile, which will use BT2020 saturations. If you use DCI-P3, the color is right at the edge, but not inside the gamut. If you use BT2020, the color is right always (and clipped/tonemapped when it goes beyond the native capacity of the display).

DCI-P3 is irrelevant for consumer content. Unless you only use MadVR, which can convert to any gamut you want, BT2020 is the correct option.

So selecting DCI-P3 in MadVR would only be correct if a DCI-P3 calibration was made in the JVC, which isn't an option unless you create and upload with the Autocal software a specific DCI-P3 colour profile. Out of the box, the correct choice is therefore BT2020 if you want a wide color gamut, and so BT2020 should also be specified in MadVR, otherwise the colors will be wrong inside the gamut.

[mclingo]

right.

I managed to finally get some decent shots of whats going on here and i'm right about BT2020 being the best fit on my setup, still no idea why.

check these out.

Left to right, (1) standard EVR render, (2) calibration off in MADVR, (3) calibration on in MADVR set to DCI-P3, (4) calibration on in MADVR set to BT3030

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1ob95e391y15tl/Image7.jpg?dl=0

Even with my mobile phones poor performance its managed to capture some differences in saturation at least, obviously in person the EVR and BT2020 look more natural than this.

[Warner306]

BT2020 is the correct setting on the JVC for HDR content. What counts is not the native gamut (it is true that the JVC reaches about DCI-P3, not BT2020), but the content encoded into a BT2020 container, so to display it properly you have to select a BT2020 color profile, which will use BT2020 saturations. If you use DCI-P3, the color is right at the edge, but not inside the gamut. If you use BT2020, the color is right always (and clipped/tonemapped when it goes beyond the native capacity of the display).

DCI-P3 is irrelevant for consumer content. Unless you only use MadVR, which can convert to any gamut you want, BT2020 is the correct option.

So selecting DCI-P3 in MadVR would only be correct if a DCI-P3 calibration was made in the JVC, which isn't an option unless you create and upload with the Autocal software a specific DCI-P3 colour profile. Out of the box, the correct choice is therefore BT2020 if you want a wide color gamut, and so BT2020 should also be specified in MadVR, otherwise the colors will be wrong inside the gamut.

Ok, sounds convincing.

[ryrynz]

Is this an Nvidia bug? madVR? Windows?


I'm using 390.77, I'd recommend giving that a shot.

Warner, can you calm down on your quoting? You can edit the quotes down in size like I did above.
I swear half this thread is useless full post quotes...

[maxkolonko123]

This was covered in great length over the past couple of days. Set it to RGB to avoid color conversions and the loss of chroma upscaling when anything besides 4:4:4 is sent.

I think u didnt understood me

When i set PC label on lg and set full range RGB 8bit colors are fine, but they look same as YCbCr 422 10bit etc, like i dont see any difference.

When i set HDMI label on LG and set full RGB 8bit then black i way over dark, but when i set it to YCbCr 422 10bit or YCbCr 444 8bit its fine ( and the colors looks like full RGB on PC label )

So do you mean i should leave on PC label and set to full RGB 8bit ?

cheers

[mclingo]

right.

I managed to finally get some decent shots of whats going on here and i'm right about BT2020 being the best fit on my setup, still no idea why.

check these out.

Left to right, (1) standard EVR render, (2) calibration off in MADVR, (3) calibration on in MADVR set to DCI-P3, (4) calibration on in MADVR set to BT3030

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1ob95e391y15tl/Image7.jpg?dl=0

Even with my mobile phones poor performance its managed to capture some differences in saturation at least, obviously in person the EVR and BT2020 look more natural than this.


EDIT, i've installed an ancient version of MADVR/LAV/AMD drivers, guess what, no longer broken, these are all from aug 2016.

so to see if it is MADVR I installed the latest MADVR on top of the old LAV/AMD drivers, broken again.

I'll see if I can work out at what point this broke in MADVR, MADSHI might then be able to work out what was done, might take me a while though so if anyone has an idea which version this problem started with please let me know.

I'm currently on V09024, will start working forwards.

[mclingo]

ok, got that wrong, this old version of MADVR didnt have use DIRCT3D11 tick, it turns out this is actually whats causing the problem, eveything was ok until I ticked that, so there are now three ways to stop this problem,. 3 bits of evidence.


- Put my TV in PC mode - problems goes away
- turn off refresh rate switching and play movie at 60hz
- turn of use DIRECT3D11

I might be even more baffled now :(

[Warner306]

When i set HDMI label on LG and set full RGB 8bit then black i way over dark, but when i set it to YCbCr 422 10bit or YCbCr 444 8bit its fine ( and the colors looks like full RGB on PC label )

So do you mean i should leave on PC label and set to full RGB 8bit ?

cheers

The idea is the same...

On the HDMI label of your display, change the HDMI black level to full range. This might be set by default on the PC label. The black level could have a number of names depending on the display, so you may have to search for it in the menus.

Then, set it as follows:

(madVR) RGB Full -> (GPU) RGB Full -> (Display) RGB Full

This treats your display as a PC monitor as it is connected to a PC.

As for your choice of bit depth, read the discussion that starts here: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1836967#post1836967

[maxkolonko123]

The idea is the same...

On the HDMI label of your display, change the HDMI black level to full range. This might be set by default on the PC label. The black level could have a number of names depending on the display, so you may have to search for it in the menus.

Then, set it as follows:

(madVR) RGB Full -> (GPU) RGB Full -> (Display) RGB Full

This treats your display as a PC monitor as it is connected to a PC.

As for your choice of bit depth, read the discussion that starts here: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1836967#post1836967

Ok cool now it make sense, cause tbh with you buddy im kinda noobish in all this :p

Madvr i have set to RGB full, black levels are set to low on hdmi port.

One more question for you, i use my lg mostly for hdr/4k movies i dont do much playing at all, so would i benefit more from full RGB 8bit rather then YCbCr 422 10bit?

[Warner306]

One more question for you, i use my lg mostly for hdr/4k movies i dont do much playing at all, so would i benefit more from full RGB 8bit rather then YCbCr 422 10bit?

You can set your desktop to 8-bit RGB at 60Hz. Then play a movie with a 24 fps frame rate and return to the GPU control panel. Set it to 10/12-bits. That way, you don't have to compromise. The desktop remains at RGB Full and video playback remains at RGB Full; and the video playback is at 10-bits, not 8-bits.

[mclingo]

got a nice easy workaround in place for my color issues - ive setup two profiles, HDR and SDR, HDR has DIRECT3d on SDR has it off, seems to work a treat.

If (HDR) "HDR"

If (not HDR) "SDR"

[maxkolonko123]

You can set your desktop to 8-bit RGB at 60Hz. Then play a movie with a 24 fps frame rate and return to the GPU control panel. Set it to 10/12-bits. That way, you don't have to compromise. The desktop remains at RGB Full and video playback remains at RGB Full; and the video playback is at 10-bits, not 8-bits.

I did try your way, by setting RGB full 8bit in desktop then play movie and try to change it to 10bit but, highest i can set over RGB is 8bit, only on YCbCr 422 i can set to 10-12bit.

Next thing what i notice is :

When set RGB full 8bit and left black level on tv to low ( which is when is way to dark) and opened madshi chrome pattern i can clearly see 422 but i cant see 444 only small shade of it. But when i change black level to high ( then is not over dark ) i cant see any number on pattern, either 422 or 444.

When i set YCbCr 422 i can see clearly both number 422 and 444 ( 422 is brightish and 444 is darkish font )

But when i set RGB full on PC label input on tv the 422 number is visible but kinda like fainting, but 444 is really clearly then so it's like opposite to what i can see over HDMI label input and PC label input.

So my question is what i should see or what should be more visible over another in what mode ? cause this is really confusing for me

[Warner306]

Highest i can set over RGB is 8bit, only on YCbCr 422 i can set to 10-12bit

Did you play a 24 fps video and return to the GPU control panel while it was playing? Start at 8-bits RGB. You set different values for lower refresh rates.

[Warner306]

got a nice easy workaround in place for my color issues - ive setup two profiles, HDR and SDR, HDR has DIRECT3d on SDR has it off, seems to work a treat.

If (HDR) "HDR"

If (not HDR) "SDR"

Have you tried using the calibration settings posted by ratings.com for your display? This is good enough to consider your display calibrated.

[maxkolonko123]

Did you play a 24 fps video and return to the GPU control panel while it was playing? Start at 8-bits RGB. You set different values for lower refresh rates.


Yeah i did, but other funny thing as well is that whenever i try to change refresh rate from 59hz in nvidia, to any other like 23hz 24hz etc, its automatically change back to 59hz

I do see P010, 10bit, 4:2:0 in madvr osd though

I tried it either with 4k movie in HDR and SDR 1080p movie

madvr osd on 1080p 24 fps movie is like that : h264, 8bit, 4:2:0 -> NV12, 8bit, 4:2:0

With HDR movie madvr doesnt have the second part after 4:2:0 like u see above in 1080p movie osd

[Asmodian]

One more question for you, i use my lg mostly for hdr/4k movies i dont do much playing at all, so would i benefit more from full RGB 8bit rather then YCbCr 422 10bit?

Yes, madVR has very good chroma scaling and 10 bit is a very small improvement over 8 bit with high quality dithering.

YCbCr 4:2:2 loses 1/3 of the video data, both chroma channels are resized to half of their resolution horizontally by the GPU. This also requires converting the RGB output of madVR to YCbCr first and then the display converting back to RGB how ever it does.

[brazen1]

@Manni

Your recent post re: DCIP3 vs BT.2020 has confused me. I understand you are relaying what works for you on your JVC 12bit but I'm seeing a problem on my Samsung 10bit and not sure if what you say applies to me as well? According to your info, if I use BT.2020 for HDR10, it should be best because I'm inside the spectrum and not on the cusp of the smaller spectrum - DCIP3. Or does this not apply because I'm peaked at 10bit and still within the smaller spectrum?

My HDR titles look the same no matter if I use BT.2020, DCIP3, BT.709, or disable calibration controls. Forget that I'm dialed back to 8bit output because of the banding issue. I reset to 12bit to test. Shouldn't I be seeing a big difference in color when I toggle these using HDR 10bit titles? Fwiw, it is in HDR mode and it looks very good using any of those. Just no difference between any of them. I'm fairly certain this is because I'm passing HDR through and I'm sending metadata to the display but if memory serves me right, so are you? I couldn't find the post where you clarified that so excuse me if I'm making a wrong assumption.

If I select BT.2020, HDR looks fine but SDR looks under saturated. SDR 8 or 10bit only looks good if I select DCIP3 or BT.709. So, I could use BT.709 and satisfy SDR and HDR, but I think the spectrum is smaller using BT.709 even though in my case it shouldn't matter due to I can't see a difference playing HDR. So, I use DCIP3 and satisfy SDR and HDR this way. Would it be better to profile SDR with DCIP3 or BT.709 and create another profile for HDR and set it to BT.2020 or one the others?

I'm concerned that my HDR titles don't respond to any of those settings and I'm confused how best to satisfy SDR and HDR? I'm hoping you and/or others might chime in and advise me. If you guys were me, how would you select the relevant settings?
I setup custom modes today with the new driver at 8bit and not 12 because of the banding (until 10bit is released if they ever step up and actually do it) and forced to drop it down if that matters. But I did test in 12bit.

[Asmodian]

madvr osd on 1080p 24 fps movie is like that : h264, 8bit, 4:2:0 -> NV12, 8bit, 4:2:0

With HDR movie madvr doesnt have the second part after 4:2:0 like u see above in 1080p movie osd

This is simply because madVR has a special case for H.264. For H.264 madVR reports both the source format and the format it received, in your example the source is h264 8bit 4:2:0 and madVR received NV12 surfaces of 8bit 4:2:0 video. For other codecs (4K is usually HEVC) madVR only reports the format madVR received from LAV Video.

[Asmodian]

DCI-P3 is irrelevant for consumer content. Unless you only use MadVR, which can convert to any gamut you want, BT2020 is the correct option.

I believe you are only talking about your JVC's BT.2020 option? It is doing the conversion (tone mapping, etc.) and it knows the source gamut so why does it even have a setting? Shouldn't it simply map to its native gamut? :confused:

This is just about how it does HDR tone mapping when using its different options, it cannot be applied to any other TVs or projectors.

So selecting DCI-P3 in MadVR would only be correct if a DCI-P3 calibration was made in the JVC, which isn't an option unless you create and upload with the Autocal software a specific DCI-P3 colour profile. Out of the box, the correct choice is therefore BT2020 if you want a wide color gamut, and so BT2020 should also be specified in MadVR, otherwise the colors will be wrong inside the gamut.

Again, this is only on your display. I believe you for your projector but for most HDR displays, in their wide gamut mode, setting DCI-P3 in madVR is more correct for SDR content or if madVR is doing the tone mapping to SDR. With SDR setting BT.2020 will map BT.709 into BT.2020 and then the display will display it in its native gamut without doing another conversion.

For HDR content it is different, I don't have as much calibration experiance but my TV assumes the source content is BT.2020 when doing its tone mapping. Its HDR mode works better when the 3DLUT maps to HDR BT.2020 or "process HDR content by using pixel shader math" targets BT.2020.

does this not apply because I'm peaked at 10bit and still within the smaller spectrum?

No, bit depth and color gamut are independent. Using too wide of a gamut with too low of a bit depth can cause banding but 12 bit does not allow you to display more intense colors, only to have more steps between colors.

In wider gamuts all brightness levels of pure red are simply more red. BT.709's pure red is a shade of orange in BT.2020. Actually displaying BT.2020 would take something like lasers of the precise wavelength so pure red does not stimulate the human green or blue color sensing cells at all, and the same for the green and blue light sources. :cool:

All that said, which options do you have on your display? Do you have BT.2020, DCI-P3 or BT.709 options? My TV only has "wide" (close to DCI-P3) and "enhanced" (closer to BT.709). I leave it on "wide" and would use DCI-P3 for SDR in madVR if I did not use 3DLUTs.

For HDR what options are you using in madVR? With "passthrough HDR content to the display" the setting in the calibration page does not apply, the metadata has that information and the display handles any conversions.

[Warner306]

Yeah i did, but other funny thing as well is that whenever i try to change refresh rate from 59hz in nvidia, to any other like 23hz 24hz etc, its automatically change back to 59hz


The fact that you can't switch to 23Hz in the control panel doesn't sound good. I'm assuming the movie switches to 23.976Hz when played? Did you set up madVR's display modes?

I would first update my GPU drivers if you haven't already. If this persists, then set everything to 8-bit RGB. You really won't be missing much as the difference between 8-bits and 10-bits is hard to notice during normal viewing. It is not one of the important settings in madVR.

As for the 4:4:4 thing, I'm guessing your PC input is 4:4:4 and your other inputs are 4:2:2. That image you are using is 1080p, to my knowledge, so that could skew the results. But that is the most likely scenario.

[Warner306]

Yes, as Asmodian said, HDR mode is not used with calibration settings in madVR. madVR sends the gamut, transfer function and metadata, so there is no conversion. The only exception is HDR -> SDR conversion. What you have to worry about is your SDR calibration. Also known as the standard mode on your display when nothing HDR is played.

The gamut could remain wide, but, with proper calibration, it should not exceed 100-120 nits of luminance.

[maxkolonko123]

The fact that you can't switch to 23Hz in the control panel doesn't sound good. I'm assuming the movie switches to 23.976Hz when played? Did you set up madVR's display modes?

I would first update my GPU drivers if you haven't already. If this persists, then set everything to 8-bit RGB. You really won't be missing much as the difference between 8-bits and 10-bits is hard to notice during normal viewing. It is not one of the important settings in madVR.

As for the 4:4:4 thing, I'm guessing your PC input is 4:4:4 and your other inputs are 4:2:2. That image you are using is 1080p, to my knowledge, so that could skew the results. But that is the most likely scenario.

Hey,


Yeah i did install newest nvidia drivers 391.24. My modes in madvr are like that 2160p60, 2160p59, 2160p50, 2160p29, 2160p30.

Here is the screenshot from 1080p movie https://imgur.com/a/R6COj
So i dont really know if it does switch to 23.976hz ?

Here is screenshot from from 2160p HDR movie https://imgur.com/a/UT4Bx

About the chroma pattern image, im using right now hdmi input YCbCr in nvidia panel and i can see both numbers clearly in full screen.

But when set to Full RGB and change black level on TV to high/auto then i cant see just the shade off 422 but 444 is not visible at all, both scenario in hdmi label input on TV.


I just notice that i can change refresh rate in nvidia panel but when no playing any movie, then refresh rate stay to what i choose, but once i play movie it automatically change to 59hz

[jespermart]

How to configure profile rules:

The madVR settings profiling logic is very flexible, but also requires a bit of scripting for best effect. Script language is pretty easy. Basically scripting is expected to be a string of "if", "else if" and "else" statements. Every "if" (or "else if") statement contains of one or more value comparisons and selects one profile to be activated. Each value comparison must be placed in brackets. By using the logical operations "and" or "or" you can check multiple values to create more complex decisions.

Let's look at an example. The following script selects one of 4 profiles, depending on the source dimensions and the frame rate after deinterlacing. I think the script is pretty much self explaining:
if (srcWidth <= 1050) and (srcHeight <= 768) and (deintFps < 31) "SD 24fps"
else if (srcWidth <= 1050) and (srcHeight <= 768) "SD 60fps"
else if (deintFps < 31) "HD 24fps"
else "HD 60fps"

Supported keywords and operators:
if/else statements: "if", "else if", "elseif", "elsif", "else"
logical operators: "and", "or", "&&", "||"
equal check: "==", "="
unequal check: "!=", "<>", "#"
bigger/smaller check: "<", ">", "<=", ">="
boolean "not" operator: "not", "!"

Supported numerical values:
srcWidth, srcHeight src width/height (cropping according to settings)
croppedSrcWidth, croppedSrcHeight cropped src width/height
uncroppedSrcWidth, uncroppedSrcHeight uncropped src width/height
AR, uncroppedAR, encodedAR cropped AR (aspect ratio), uncropped AR, encoded AR,
targetWidth, targetHeight width/height after scaling (cropping according to settings)
croppedTargetWidth, croppedTargetHeight width/height after scaling cropped source
uncroppedTargetWidth, uncroppedTargetHeight width/height after scaling uncropped source
scalingFactor.x/y overall scaling factor
fps, deintFps, bitDepth source frame rate, framerate after deinterlacing, bitdepth
displayMode.x/y, refreshRate display mode information
runtime movie runtime (in minutes)

Supported boolean values:
4:2:0, 4:2:2, 4:4:4, RGB which pixel format does the source have?
HDR is the video HDR?
srcInterlaced is the source interlaced?
filmMode is film mode (IVTC) active?
MPEG2, VC-1, h264 which codec is the source encoded in?
exclusive, overlay, windowed rendering mode
fullscreen is playback borderless fullscreen (can be windowed or exclusive)
AMD, nVidia, Intel which GPU manufacturer are we rendering on?
smoothMotion is smooth motion FRC active?
variableAR does this video have variable ARs?
hdr is the video HDR?
battery is this a laptop running on battery?

Supported string values:
mediaPlayer media player exe file name
filePath, fileName, fileExt e.g. "c:\movie.mkv", "movie.mkv", "mkv", wildcards supported
display name of the active display device

One more example to show how to use numerical, boolean and string values:
if ((not 4:2:0) or (AR = 16:9)) and (fileName = "*horribleSubs*.mkv") "Weird profile" else "Normal profile"

Does the scripting support unc path

[mclingo]

unfortunately MADSHI doesnt feel my colour issue with DIRECT3D11@23hz is a MADVR problem even though it only occurs with MADVR, I dont agree there isnt much I can do, if anyone else has similar issues can they post.

recap:
Happens only with AMD RX generation cards ( think)
I only see if with SDR material running @ 23hz
happens only when "use DIRECT3D11" ticked in MADVR
Putting TV in PC mode corrects the problem.

i'm going to log this on AMD forums but there isnt really much for AMD to go really as it only happens with MADVR, doubt they will even bother to look at it. The reason others havent picked up on this yet is may that there still arent that many 4K HDR TV owners out there using MADVR with RX cards, at present only one other person has reported similar issues.

[huhn]

ok let's see that this happen with MPDN with 3d11?

Putting TV in PC mode corrects the problem.
this alone is resason enough that it is NOT a madVR problem.

edit: ahh yeah the AMD forum is not there to report GPU driver bugs it is there to get help from other >user< NOT from AMD.

[mclingo]

ok let's see that this happen with MPDN with 3d11?


this alone is resason enough that it is NOT a madVR problem.

edit: ahh yeah the AMD forum is not there to report GPU driver bugs it is there to get help from other >user< NOT from AMD.


its a difficult one this, the fact that other renderers can process colour correctly at the same resolution, refresh rate and TV mode suggest that MADVR is getting tripped up somewhere by something, not that there is a fault somewhere in a GPU driver, surely if that were the case they'd all get tripped up.

Obviously MADVR is doing things differently to other renderers but this is the reason why you call it a bug with MADVR and not with the AMD gpu driver, they wont wirte their drivers to work with MADVR, surely its up to MADSHI to write MADVR to work with their drivers. AMD's response if the was one would likely be what is MADVR doing that all other renderers are not?

I've got a workaround that works for now, not a fan of workarounds as a like a simple setup but MADSHI is busy and i'm already eternally grateful for all the work he's already done so it wouldnt be fair to put further pressure on him.

if this doesnt get fixed its not the end of the world but I'd still like it to be acknowledged as a bug with MADVR and not with the GPU driver.

However, if MADSHI does nothing at all with this but still continues to develop MADVR i'll be happy enough with that. :)

[mclingo]

i've never installed or used MPDN before, i'll have a look tonight, if its fine in MPDN what does that tell us though?

[FDisk80]

Out of interest, why are people setting custom resolutions in NVIDA when they can be created in MADVR without any fuss, is it so you can create custom bit rates and colour space as well, I dont know much about the NVIDIA side of things though.

Since nvidia broke the support for custom resolutions it doesn't work anywhere, trying to set it in madVR also doesn't work anymore, it gives you this error when you try.

https://i.imgur.com/11brC9Q.png

It just doesn't allow any new modes to be added. Just the default ones that are already there can be applied. I'm guessing nvidia changed some security setting that doesn't allow some registry keys to be changed if it recognizes that an HDTV is connected. I'm not really sure. Maybe there is some registry tweak that we can do to allow new modes to be created again.

[Manni]

@Manni

Your recent post re: DCIP3 vs BT.2020 has confused me.

99.99% of consumer commercial UHD HDR content (mostly UHD Blurays) is mastered to BT2020 with a D65 white point. A few titles are mastered in UHD rec-709 SDR (such as The Fourth Phase), but they are really a handful.

Out of these BT2020 titles, 99.99% are graded on a monitor with DCI-P3 capabilities, but they are still using a BT2020 container. A few titles (more and more as both grading displays and consumer displays evolve) are starting to use beyond DCI-P3, so report a grading monitor with BT2020 capability.

For the user, it doesn't matter. The only correct calibration to use for consumer content is BT2020. It doesn't matter if the capability of the consumer display is limited to DCI-P3 or not (most are), the saturations/calibration has to be BT2020.

If your display only says "wide", then you have to measure it (not only at 100% saturation, but also within the gamut at say 25%, 50% and 75%) in order to establish if the calibration tracks DCI-P3 or BT2020 saturations. For example, on the JVCs, the first HDR models had a reference mode that tracked DCI-P3, which was incorrect. I had to create a BT2020 color profile tracking BT2020 (even if the native gamut was still not wider than DCI-P3) to reproduce HDR content correctly. JVC soon after released exactly the same calibration to correct their initial error.

There is no way to know which display is doing what, so whether they are doing it correctly or not. The only thing I can tell you is that consumer content (ie content you purchase, not early demos) are almost all using a BT2020 container. So you have to use a BT2020 calibration if you want to reproduce the colors correctly.

That is in passthrough mode or with sources other than MadVR.

If you use HDR to SDR conversion, then you simply have to either select what the source expects (for example, the UB 900 or the Oppo 203 players will output SDR BT2020 or SDR BT709 with a power gamma of 2.4, so you should select a calibration that does the same), or if you're using MadVR you can tell MadVR what your display is calibrated to, and MadVR will do the conversion for you.

So if you use only MadVR and are happy with the HDR to SDR mode, you can tell MadVR to convert to DCI-P3, and it will do it. But if you want to use the same calibration with other sources, then you have no other way than creating a BT2020 calibration, because no consumer source will ever output DCI-P3. DCI-P3 isn't a consumer format. It won't be in any consumer content, and it won't be sent by any consumer source.

So you have two ways to approach this:

- If you want consumer HDR sources other than MadVR to use the same HDR calibration, or if you want to use MadVR in passthough mode, you have to create/select a BT2020 calibration.
- If you only use MadVR, or if you can create a 3D LUT converting to whatever your display needs, or if you're happy with MadVR HDR to SDR conversion, you simply have to know which gamut your display is tracking in it's "wide" mode, and specify this to MadVR / use the correct 3D LUT.

I believe you are only talking about your JVC's BT.2020 option? It is doing the conversion (tone mapping, etc.) and it knows the source gamut so why does it even have a setting? Shouldn't it simply map to its native gamut? :confused:

This is just about how it does HDR tone mapping when using its different options, it cannot be applied to any other TVs or projectors.

Again, this is only on your display. I believe you for your projector but for most HDR displays, in their wide gamut mode, setting DCI-P3 in madVR is more correct for SDR content or if madVR is doing the tone mapping to SDR. With SDR setting BT.2020 will map BT.709 into BT.2020 and then the display will display it in its native gamut without doing another conversion.

For HDR content it is different, I don't have as much calibration experiance but my TV assumes the source content is BT.2020 when doing its tone mapping. Its HDR mode works better when the 3DLUT maps to HDR BT.2020 or "process HDR content by using pixel shader math" targets BT.2020.



No, not just my display, it depends on each display but the above applies to any display. It also depends if you're using a different calibration for SDR BT709 and HDR BT2020, or if you're happy to have MadVR convert everything to a single calibration (usually the widest).

It's not an option with projectors because you lose a lot of performance in either HDR or SDR if you use the same calibration for both.

It is risky to assume that because the native gamut is closest to DCI-P3, its "wide" setting, because it measures close to DCI-P3, is actually tracking DCI-P3.

It might be the case if it's an early HDR display, an SDR display or a poorly/wrongly designed HDR display, but it shouldn't really. It should be tracking BT2020 saturations.

You have to understand the distinction between the maximum native capability (the edge of the gamut) and the way the calibration tracks within the gamut.

If your display is a HDR consumer display and has a valid/decent HDR mode, it should be using a BT2020 calibration so that it tracks properly BT2020 content, even if the edge of its native gamut doesn't go beyond DCI-P3.

Otherwise you will have correct colors at the edge of the gamut, but incorrect colors within.

This changes if you're using an HDR to SDR calibration with MadVR, or if you're using 3D LUTs to convert from one gamut to another.

This is frankly off topic here, but you are making a lot of wrong/risky assumptions in what you are describing.

[mclingo]

Since nvidia broke the support for custom resolutions it doesn't work anywhere, trying to set it in madVR also doesn't work anymore, it gives you this error when you try.


It just doesn't allow any new modes to be added. Just the default ones that are already there can be applied. I'm guessing nvidia changed some security setting that doesn't allow some registry keys to be changed if it recognizes that an HDTV is connected. I'm not really sure. Maybe there is some registry tweak that we can do to allow new modes to be created again.

have you tried tweaking the timings at all by a single digit, I was doing that with my 1050 to try and maximise the frame drop internal, I say that as some of the timings gave this error suggesting they were out of scope, you might find one thats close enough to use in the meantime.

[huhn]

its a difficult one this, the fact that other renderers can process colour correctly at the same resolution, refresh rate and TV mode suggest that MADVR is getting tripped up somewhere by something, not that there is a fault somewhere in a GPU driver, surely if that were the case they'd all get tripped up.

Obviously MADVR is doing things differently to other renderers but this is the reason why you call it a bug with MADVR and not with the AMD gpu driver, they wont wirte their drivers to work with MADVR, surely its up to MADSHI to write MADVR to work with their drivers. AMD's response if the was one would likely be what is MADVR doing that all other renderers are not?

I've got a workaround that works for now, not a fan of workarounds as a like a simple setup but MADSHI is busy and i'm already eternally grateful for all the work he's already done so it wouldnt be fair to put further pressure on him.

if this doesnt get fixed its not the end of the world but I'd still like it to be acknowledged as a bug with MADVR and not with the GPU driver.

However, if MADSHI does nothing at all with this but still continues to develop MADVR i'll be happy enough with that. :)

yes madVr does something different is is able to use d3d11 for presentation. you even point out that this is the problem...

[mclingo]

thats only half the story though, putting my TV in PC mode and leaving DIRECT3D11 ticked produces the correct image, as does turning off refresh rate switching and having movies play at 60hz, none of this makes sense, its not as simple as just saying either its a D3D problem or a GPU driver issue, you cant say that until you know the exact cause, I dont think anyone does.

[Warner306]

Hey,

Yeah i did install newest nvidia drivers 391.24. My modes in madvr are like that 2160p60, 2160p59, 2160p50, 2160p29, 2160p30.

Here is the screenshot from 1080p movie https://imgur.com/a/R6COj
So i dont really know if it does switch to 23.976hz ?

Read the first line, "display." Your display is not switching to 23.976. Are you sure your display supports this?

A list of available refresh rates for the connected display can be viewed in Windows:

Right-click on the desktop and select Display settings then Advanced display settings;
Choose Display adapter properties -> Monitor;
A list of compatible refresh rates is shown in the drop-down.


As for the HDR movie, it doesn't look like passthrough is active. Are you using passthrough? Does your GPU and display support HDR playback?

And the 4:4:4 image? Don't worry about it. There is nothing you can change in madVR to alter this. The mode you are using might be 4:2:2, but this won't matter too much. Look up your display on Ratings.com (https://www.rtings.com/tv) for more technical information.

[huhn]

thats only half the story though, putting my TV in PC mode and leaving DIRECT3D11 ticked produces the correct image, as does turning off refresh rate switching and having movies play at 60hz, none of this makes sense, its not as simple as just saying either its a D3D problem or a GPU driver issue, you cant say that until you know the exact cause, I dont think anyone does.

sorry but you don't known what correct it...
if mpdn has the same problem it is clearly not a madVR problem.

everything points at your TV everything...

[mclingo]

both my TV's are doing it, my EF950 2015 OLED and my 2016 Samaung MU7000 so its not my main TV, its something to do with my GFX card, I acknowledge that as it didnt do it when I put the NVIDIA 1050 in, however, the question is, does a tweak need to be made in MADVR or with the AMD driver or elsewhere to resolve this, thats the question we need answering, I would have thought MADSHI was the only person who could answer that.

What if MPDN doesnt have the same problem, its definitely MADVR then?

[Asmodian]

If your display is a HDR consumer display and has a valid/decent HDR mode, it should be using a BT2020 calibration so that it tracks properly BT2020 content, even if the edge of its native gamut doesn't go beyond DCI-P3.

Otherwise you will have correct colors at the edge of the gamut, but incorrect colors within.

This is good info and an important way to think about these issues. :thanks:
However, I did a lot of measuring and I am pretty convinced that for SDR my display is best used with madVR by setting DCI-P3 in madVR. If I set BT.2020 in madVR it is under saturated everywhere, not simply at the edges.

This changes if you're using an HDR to SDR calibration with MadVR, or if you're using 3D LUTs to convert from one gamut to another.


I think you misunderstood my post because I completely agree with you when the display is in HDR mode. It is only in its SDR "wide" mode that it seems to be calibrated to DCI-P3. I never have the TV in HDR mode while watching SDR content.

You are in a weird situation because the options on the calibration page in madVR normally do not affect the output when watching HDR content on an HDR display. For HDR setting DCI-P3 or BT.2020 is only an option when using "process HDR content by using pixel shader math", and when using that option almost everyone should use BT.2020. Again, this is only on madVR's hdr page, not its calibration page.