madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[mochevolete]

ops, sorry, forgot to mention, just tried a couple of Blu-Ray encoded in AVC, CPU usage is about 55%

ok, in Codecs: H.264 > libavcodec
Output: Planar YUV > only YV12 is checked (is this ?)
Packed YUV has everything checked, so is RGB, do I have to uncheck all ?
No other filter is activated, nor Shader

I'll set the other things in MPC_HC,

thanks for now :)

[noee]

I would set h.264 to ffmpeg_mt for higher bitrate material
Uncheck all output formats except YV12

[mochevolete]

OK, the "trick" was to set ffdshow as external video decoder and .. to set ffmpeg_mt instead of libavcodec,
unfortunately is VERY prone to crash if I alt-tab to other apps, and once it crashes I have to restart the system coz the audio goes in loop.

BTW in fullscreen works perfectly, why madshi says it can't ?

Nik :)

[mochevolete]

re-reply, unfortunately it's not yet perfectly fluid compared do EVR custom and DXVA,
anyway, thanks for this great enhancement madshi !

Nik

[Mark_A_W]

Does FFDShow video queue output samples option work with MadVR?


madVR has it's own queue.

[Hypernova]

OK, the "trick" was to set ffdshow as external video decoder and .. to set ffmpeg_mt instead of libavcodec,
unfortunately is VERY prone to crash if I alt-tab to other apps, and once it crashes I have to restart the system coz the audio goes in loop.

BTW in fullscreen works perfectly, why madshi says it can't ?

Nik :)

I think he refer to exclusive fullscreen?

[sepheas]

For Nvidia users, Do we need a madvr update/fix or newer drivers ?

[edison]

For Nvidia users, Do we need a madvr update/fix or newer drivers ?

I think a madVR update will be much more exciting. :)

[pie1394]

The madVR's color processing and Lanczos3 scaling make it still my preferred video renderer for AVC/H.264 contents. To me the most stable one is still v0.9 (especially for seeking). Fortunately the huge horse-powered 260GTX+ can handle it well under most situations.

For MPEG-2 contents(DVD, HDTV), I still feel the nVidia PureVideo MPEG2 video decoder + VMR9 renderless mode under WinXP produces better image output. For MPEG-2 1080i content which are native to my PDP TV display, any other combination w/i or w/o madVR never produces the same detailed and vivid-color output if compared to PureVideo decoder.

Unfortunately madVR cannot accept DXVA input, and thus it does not seem able to turn on most advanced video post-processing in GT200. (Ex: pixel adaptive deinterlace, de-ring, de-blocking, noise reduction...)


In addition I found that MPC-HC new EVR sync mode has improved a lot in D3D Exclusive mode under WinXP. It now runs smoothy for FILM content's frame playback at 1080p24 output unless the weird a/v sync logic sometimes still makes the screen frozen for several seconds. Anyway it does not produce such result if the output is 1080i60 or 1080p60 for FILM contents.

So I guess once madVR has the D3D Exclusive mode and functional OSD pin implementations, the entire playback system could become more mature with MPC-HC + madVR.

[jmone]

FYI - JR Media Center is adding support for madVR - http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=55933.0

[noee]

Has anyone yet had the opportunity to try one of the "new" 5450 or 5570 cards with madVR?

[chuuey]

well i gave the renderer a shot again, still crazy tearing on my 9400 with latest 196 driver, but the videos start every time at least ;) hope this will work better with a new release, i really am looking forward to it :)

[mikelebron]

Yea.. its unusable with my 9400 also...

well i gave the renderer a shot again, still crazy tearing on my 9400 with latest 196 driver, but the videos start every time at least ;) hope this will work better with a new release, i really am looking forward to it :)

[chuuey]

Yea.. its unusable with my 9400 also...

well the 0.09 version has been working very well for me even with 24hz, unlike 0.11 which tears all over the place even on my 4890, i'm sure this will be fixed someday :)

[cyberbeing]

Personally I think the 9400GT is just too weak to use with madVR.
It only is able to hit 67.2 GFlops in shading performance and the 128bit memory controller only has 12.8GB/s of bandwidth.

For nVidia's line, madVR really seems to need >200GFlop of shading performance and at least 512MB of memory with >50GB/s of bandwidth to use all its scaling options and features.

The 9600GSO 512, 9600GT, and GT 240 (DDR5 version) are probably the lowest common denominators of nVidia's line that will work well with madVR.

[namaiki]

My 9600M GT works fine with MadVR .11 @ 1920x1080 32-bit 60p with MadVR default settings(if there are more GPU intensive features, I can try them if you would like).

Specs:
32 Stream Processors.
500 MHz core clock.
1250 MHz shader clock.
800 MHz memory clock.
256MB VRAM.
128-bit memory interface.
25.6 GB/s memory bandwidth.

I think it's 120GFlops..

[cyberbeing]

Using a 3dlut:

Try scaling a 1920x1080 video to 1280x720 (or 1600x900) using Spline64 for luma and chroma.

Also try scaling a 1280x720 video to 1920x1080 using Spline64 for luma and chroma.

Try playing back a 1920x1080 video at 1920x1080 with Spline64 set for luma and chroma.

If you have a bigger display handy, try scaling a 1920x1080 video to 2560x1440 with Spline64 set for luma and chroma. This seems to require >512MB of ram.


If you really want to kill your GPU:

Try playing back a 1280x720 at 1280x720 60fps video using Spline64 for luma and chroma.

Try playing back a 1920x1080 at 1920x1080 60fps video using Spline64 for luma and chroma.

Try scaling a 1280x720 or 1920x1080 60fps video using Spline64 for luma and chroma.


If you see increasing dropped or delayed frames during playback and/or the render queue drops below 8/8 , your GPU isn't powerful enough.

[chuuey]

well that's strange, one time i launched the 0.11 version changed some settings and a movie played without a single hiccup with coreavc 2 and cuda enabled, i launched another one, choppy as hell, every resampler was set to bilinear, i don't know where this randomness comes from ;) if 9400 is weak, which i'm sure it is, it handles the 0.09 version at 24hz and cuda enabled very well, so unless something was drastically changed in the next versions i don't know why the latest ones shouldn't work, 256 mb vram on my setup

[namaiki]

If you have a bigger display handy, try scaling a 1920x1080 video to 2560x1440 with Spline64 set for luma and chroma. This seems to require >512MB of ram.
Yes, I know that from my experience 1920x1080 appears to be the limit of a 256MB card.

Using a 3dlut:
Try scaling a 1920x1080 video to 1280x720 using Spline64 for luma and chroma.
Fine without 3dlut. With 3dlut, render queue will drop. Oh well, it's my laptop and only computer with a half decent video card. :p

[somy]

I'm really looking forward to a new version of MadVR that works without Aero :)

[JarrettH]

Been 4 months :scared:

[kostik]

What pixel format is better to use with Madvr?
RGB limited
ycbcr 4:2:2
ycbcr 4:4:4
I just still dont get it which one gives better results.

I've got Pioneer 428XD Plasma which supports these formats and Ati hd4850.

thanks.

[leeperry]

What pixel format is better to use with Madvr?
more than likely both your graphic card and your HDTV work internally in 0-255 RGB...so avoid any lossy conversion and simply output full range RGB(or limited RGB if your HDTV doesn't allow full range).

[cyberlolo]

Hi. I have an ATI HD4850 and I'm trying to use madVR with MPC-HC. My problem is that when I play the AVCHD test pattern to calibrate the display, I have no flashing bars below 17, which would be ok, but I also don't have any flashing bar from 233, so it's definately clipping whites. I've tried to adjust the brightness and contrast in the AVIVO Video (CCC 9.12), but it has no effect, so I don't know how can i have wtw (and btb) preserved. Is there any way?

Thanks in advance.

[leeperry]

if you set it on "TV levels", there's no levels conversion.

[cyberlolo]

Yes, but in that mode, I have to decrease brightness so much that the resulting image is too dark.

I have the HTPC connected via HDMI to a plasma TV (RGB Full Pixel Format). What do you recommend? PC Levels or TV Levels?

[leeperry]

I'd recommend to calibrate your display to D65/2.3 if that's not the case yet...you can get a cheapo Spyder2 second hand or better an Eye One Display 2.

and you'd also need to find out what your TV expects...PC or TV range, sometimes it also depends on the resolution/input format.

[cyberlolo]

I'd recommend to calibrate your display to D65/2.3 if that's not the case yet...you can get a cheapo Spyder2 second hand or better an Eye One Display 2.

I will have my TV calibrated (ISF) in a couple of months, because right now is too new and I have to wait for it to be settled down.

and you'd also need to find out what your TV expects...PC or TV range, sometimes it also depends on the resolution/input format.

What I want is very simple: to have clipped blacks from 0-16, and preserve whites until 254. With other renderers (like EVR CP), I can make that tweaking with the CCC Avivo Video settings (brightness and contrast). But with madVR, I can't do it. Am I losing info if I stick to PC Levels and have >235 clipped?

It would be great if madVR had it's brightness/contrast controls. I think that would solve the problem. Will that controls be included in the next version?

[leeperry]

ok, but a calibration will degrade over time...in a few months, it'll prolly be quite off.

and it'll be dependent on your graphic card/drivers version/resolution/refresh rate...change any of these and your calibration is very much likely to be off too.

why would you wanna clip anything? if your TV accepts full range RGB, set mVR to do the TV>PC conversion...it'll avoid lossy conversions in whatever your ATi drivers or your TV...plus it'll be far more accurate than a crappy IC in your TV doing the conversion.

if your TV only accepts TV levels, then it's a different story...if you only care for movies, disable any levels conversion in mVR/ATi drivers = movies will be 16-235 untouched, but windows will be messed up as it's only able to output 0-255 by design....or set mVR to do the levels conversion, and set your ATi drivers to RGB limited(a lot of useless lossy conversions here, though)

[Mark_A_W]

ok, but a calibration will degrave over time...in a few months, it'll prolly be quite off.

And that comment is based on what evidence?


My projector hasn't really changed in years. And yes, I have a HCFR setup to check it.

[leeperry]

And that comment is based on what evidence?
My projector hasn't really changed in years. And yes, I have a HCFR setup to check it.
you have a 3 eyed monster, maybe it's different...but a regular CRT, a flat screen or a UHP based display has a drifting colorimetry by design....anyone w/ a projector will tell you that, sometimes even those pesky ATi drivers versions can change the gamma curves(yes, it's been confirmed by many ppl).

HCFR? like the cheapo HCFR sensor? or you're using an Eye One Display of some sort?

mastering studios get their monitoring CRT's recalibrated using Minolta spectrophotometers on a weekly basis...figures?

[cyberlolo]

ok, but a calibration will degrave over time...in a few months, it'll prolly be quite off.

and it'll be dependent on your graphic card/drivers version/resolution/refresh rate...change any of these and your calibration is very much likely to be off too.

why would you wanna clip anything? if your TV accepts full range RGB, set mVR to do the TV>PC conversion...it'll avoid lossy conversions in whatever your ATi drivers or your TV...plus it'll be far more accurate than a crappy IC in your TV doing the conversion.

if your TV only accepts TV levels, then it's a different story...if you only care for movies, disable any levels conversion in mVR/ATi drivers = movies will be 16-235 untouched, but windows will be messed up as it's only able to output 0-255 by design....or set mVR to do the levels conversion, and set your ATi drivers to RGB limited(a lot of useless lossy conversions here, though)

Thanks in advance, Lee, you're helping me a lot...

No, i don't want to clip anything. I want 0-16 (reference black) to be all total black, and then begin to grow from 17. And in the other hand, I want the white point at 254, but if it's not possible, I would stick to have it at 235 (reference white).

And yes, my TV accepts full range RGB (it's a KURO KRP-500), and I have that pixel format selected. So with this configuration, you advice me to set mVR to do the TV>PC conversion. How do I do that? Selecting output settings to "PC levels" in madVR?

[leeperry]

yep, leave your ATi drivers on "full range RGB", check "PC levels" in mVR so it'll do the conversion, get your TV calibrated...and then get the calibration report from the ISF technician, input the RGB primaries coordinates in cr3dlut(to get a perfectly matched LUT)..and you'll be as close to colorgasm as you could possibly get http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/ayuluna.gif

US movies essentially need SMPTE-C gamut mapping, and EUR need EBU...the icing on the cake will be running Reclock in 24/48Hz :D

[cyberlolo]

yep, leave your ATi drivers on "full range RGB", check "PC levels" in mVR so it'll do the conversion, get your TV calibrated...and then get the calibration report from the ISF technician, input the RGB primaries coordinates in cr3dlut(to get a perfectly matched LUT)..and you'll be as close to colorgasm as you could possibly get http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/ayuluna.gif

US movies essentially need SMPTE-C gamut mapping, and EUR need EBU...the icing on the cake will be running Reclock in 24/48Hz :D

Regarding your explanation of the levels and calibration, thank you!!! Now I think I have it perfectly clear. Although I think it would be great if next version of madVR includes it's own brightness/contrast controls.

By the way, I'm not using Reclock because I'm not having any judder issues. I can output at 24, 50, and 60 Hz depending on the frame rate of the video I want to watch. Why would I need Reclock?

[leeperry]

if you're perfectly fine w/o Reclock, then be it! because once you're hooked to butter smooth playback, you are doomed.

[cyberlolo]

if you're perfectly fine w/o Reclock, then be it! because once you're hooked to butter smooth playback, you are doomed.

:) lol

Do you mean I will have a smoother playback with Reclock?

[leeperry]

try it in a 24Hz multiple, you'll see. run it for a week, then turn it off..if you dare :D

and mVR creates separate LUT's for PC/TV levels,but you can cheat and use one for SMPTE-C, one for EBU...and switch on the fly, pretty handy :)

[cyberlolo]

Ok, I'll give it a try.

Which version do you recommend me? In the web I've found a lot of them!

[namaiki]

The latest, or 1.8.6.1 and newer especially if you're going to use WASAPI.

[Mark_A_W]

you have a 3 eyed monster, maybe it's different...but a regular CRT, a flat screen or a UHP based display has a drifting colorimetry by design....anyone w/ a projector will tell you that, sometimes even those pesky ATi drivers versions can change the gamma curves(yes, it's been confirmed by many ppl).

HCFR? like the cheapo HCFR sensor? or you're using an Eye One Display of some sort?

mastering studios get their monitoring CRT's recalibrated using Minolta spectrophotometers on a weekly basis...figures?

Yeah, they all change, but unless you mess with the source end, it's gradual, not drastic.

And we compared (and calibrated) my HCFR sensor against a $5000 Colorfacts system and the result was basically identical. There is a difference between cheap and crap.

You need to stay grounded leeperry, and not overstate things - you make it sound like a calibration is needed every second day.

[leeperry]

Yeah, they all change, but unless you mess with the source end, it's gradual, not drastic.

And we compared (and calibrated) my HCFR sensor against a $5000 Colorfacts system and the result was basically identical. There is a difference between cheap and crap.

You need to stay grounded leeperry, and not overstate things - you make it sound like a calibration is needed every second day.
of course it's gradual...I never said it wasn't, but the ΔE will be down the drain after a few months(and again, new ATi drivers version could completely screw up your calibration)...besides you have the most innacurate sensor on the market, so I find it funny that you talk to me like that :D

the HCFR sensor is blind w/o a "driver" file, and these are very innacurate too(I can give you links on the HCFR forum where its designer MLill was VERY honest about it)...I am well aware of how this 50 EUR sensor works, as I used to own one. You could try reading what real world users and the ARGYLLCMS coder have to say about it: http://www.argyllcms.com/doc/instruments.html#HCFR
The accuracy of this instrument does not seem to be comparable to the commercial instruments

keep thinking that your 50 EUR sensor is great if you like, and that calibrations never worsen up...that's cool w/ me!

professionals get their CRT screens recalibrated on a weekly basis using calibrated spectrophotometers, and I like to recalibrate every month using my i1d2...do it every year if you like, at least it'll make noticeable improvements by then :p

[kostik]

Leeperry I've got a question.

I have the color coordinates in this format:
0.8479866, 0.1455006, 0.0065128, 0,
0.0127898, 0.9873329, -0.0001228, 0,
0.0108641, 0.0219475, 0.9671884, 0,
0, 0, 0, 0
I made it for pixel shader in mpc which looked this way:

BT701 pioneer 428



sampler s0 : register(s0);
float4 p0 : register(c0);

static float4x4 r2r =
{
0.8479866, 0.1455006, 0.0065128, 0,
0.0127898, 0.9873329, -0.0001228, 0,
0.0108641, 0.0219475, 0.9671884, 0,
0, 0, 0, 0

};

float4 main(float2 tex : TEXCOORD0) : COLOR
{
float4 c0 = tex2D(s0, tex);
c0 = pow(c0, 1/0.45);
c0 = mul(r2r, c0);
c0 = saturate(c0);
c0 = pow(c0, 0.45);

return c0;
}

How do I put those coordinates in the right forman in cr3dlut?
thnx

[leeperry]

How do I put those coordinates in the right forman in cr3dlut?
you used the .xls file to create this script...get the coordinates directly from it, or recalibrate your display...as previously discussed your display colorimetry is not stable by a long shot.

[kostik]

you used the .xls file to create this script...get the coordinates directly from it, or recalibrate your display...as previously discussed your display colorimetry is not stable by a long shot.

the problem is that I dont know how to get the direct coordinates :(
Can you help me? My friend helped me to do this and we are not talking anymore hehe

[leeperry]

the problem is that I dont know how to get the direct coordinates :(
Can you help me? My friend helped me to do this and we are not talking anymore hehe
I've got no idea how you can get the coordinates back from the final coeffs....try asking on AVS in its own thread maybe? but it doesn't seem possible.

[cyberlolo]

yep, leave your ATi drivers on "full range RGB", check "PC levels" in mVR so it'll do the conversion, get your TV calibrated...and then get the calibration report from the ISF technician, input the RGB primaries coordinates in cr3dlut(to get a perfectly matched LUT)..and you'll be as close to colorgasm as you could possibly get http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/ayuluna.gif

US movies essentially need SMPTE-C gamut mapping, and EUR need EBU...the icing on the cake will be running Reclock in 24/48Hz :D

Hi again Lee. I've installed Reclock and you were right. The video is smoother now, and the sound has also improved a lot with Wasapi. Now I have 2 doubts:

1) You said to try it at 48 Hz. How can I do that? The PC outputs at 24 Hz (or 50, or 60), and ReClock doesn't have any option to change the refresh rate...

2) Regarding the sound, I've configured ReClock in 24 padded to 32/192kHz, as you advised in head-fi forums. As I'm using it with AC3Filter, how do I have to set AC3Filter output (PCM24, PCM32, PCM Float)?

Thanks in advance again!

[Mark_A_W]

of course it's gradual...I never said it wasn't, but the ΔE will be down the drain after a few months(and again, new ATi drivers version could completely screw up your calibration)...besides you have the most innacurate sensor on the market, so I find it funny that you talk to me like that :D

the HCFR sensor is blind w/o a "driver" file, and these are very innacurate too(I can give you links on the HCFR forum where its designer MLill was VERY honest about it)...I am well aware of how this 50 EUR sensor works, as I used to own one. You could try reading what real world users and the ARGYLLCMS coder have to say about it: http://www.argyllcms.com/doc/instruments.html#HCFR


keep thinking that your 50 EUR sensor is great if you like, and that calibrations never worsen up...that's cool w/ me!

professionals get their CRT screens recalibrated on a weekly basis using calibrated spectrophotometers, and I like to recalibrate every month using my i1d2...do it every year if you like, at least it'll make noticeable improvements by then :p

You are full of FUD again.

You did not say it was gradual, you said it was drastic. In a few months it will only be off a tiny bit, not "way off". It will change most with a bulb projector as the bulb settles in, so always, one should wait a bit before calibration, but once the display has a run a while, it will be reasonably stable.

Every 6 months or a year it will need a "tweak", but it will not be far off, in general. Home use is not the same as professional use.


I'll say it again. My HCFR setup, measured basically identically to a Colorfacts setup. The "driver" file was created for my projector using the Colorfacts system by my friend and me, not downloaded.

It measures the same as Colorfacts because we set it that way, although it wasn't far off before we created the driver file.

In the real world, the difference between the calibrations using either setup was not noticable.


Next thing you'll be telling me you can hear the difference between op-amps. :rolleyes:

[leeperry]

1) You said to try it at 48 Hz. How can I do that? The PC outputs at 24 Hz (or 50, or 60), and ReClock doesn't have any option to change the refresh rate...

2) Regarding the sound, I've configured ReClock in 24 padded to 32/192kHz, as you advised in head-fi forums. As I'm using it with AC3Filter, how do I have to set AC3Filter output (PCM24, PCM32, PCM Float)?
1) any multiple of 24Hz is cool, if 48Hz(might need to create custom res.) is not possible 24Hz is fine...the higher the refreh rate the more stable the picture, but many displays actually show 24Hz at 48 or 96(some even go up to 240Hz in the Sony VPL-VW serie)

cinema projectors show 24fps@48Hz....I like it old school :D

2) you should always feed lossy audio as 32float to Reclock to avoid rounding errors....but the dts decoder in ac3filter sounds terrible, compare it w/ libavcodec in ffdshow, you'll see what I mean.

and the resampler DLL in Reclock b58 sounds much better to my ears than in b60+, but YMMV ;)

[cyberlolo]

1) any multiple of 24Hz is cool, if 48Hz(might need to create custom res.) is not possible 24Hz is fine...the higher the refreh rate the more stable the picture, but many displays actually show 24Hz at 48 or 96(some even go up to 240Hz in the Sony VPL-VW serie)

cinema projectors show 24fps@48Hz....I like it old school :D

2) you should always feed lossy audio as 32float to Reclock to avoid rounding errors....but the dts decoder in ac3filter sounds terrible, compare it w/ libavcodec in ffdshow, you'll see what I mean.

and the resampler DLL in Reclock b58 sounds much better to my ears than in b60+, but YMMV ;)

You're right with the refresh rate. My TV has a mode that shows 24Hz at 72Hz, so I've activated it and it's quite smooth.

Regarding the sound, I'll give a try to ffdshow instead of ac3filter.

Cheers again for your great help, Lee.

[cyberlolo]

Hi again Lee.

I've disabled AC3Filter and gave a try to ffdshow, but I'm having problems using ffdshow to decode the audio of the videos (mainly ac3 contained in mkvs). Can you post here your ffdshow audio decoder settings so I can see if I'm doing anything wrong?

Btw, you say KMPlayer is the best player for audio/video (althought I'm only interested in videos). Right now I'm using MPC-HC, but I wanted to try KMPlayer and I'm having a weird issue: when I set Reclock as audio renderer, I get no sound and the Reclock icon doesn't load in taskbar, but if I select DirectSound Default Device as audio renderer, then I get the sound back, and Reclock loads ok. So you know why is this?