madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) [Archive] - Page 1037

huhn

24th July 2018, 01:04

bt 2020 is not a gamma curve it is a colorspace a "gamut".
no screen can show it not even professional ones.

if you don't have calibration equipment leave it at default.even if you select something like DCI P3 which is nearly doable on these screen you wll not get DCI P3.

SamuriHL

24th July 2018, 01:15

That's what I get for doing things from memory and not looking. You are correct, that's colorspace.

Gamma: BT.1886

That is what I meant to say.

wnholt01

24th July 2018, 02:32

This isn't a madVR problem specifically I think, but I encounter it when using madVR with resolution switching. Anyone else use RGB 12 bit for 4K 23.976 with Nvidia card and have a problem getting the 12 bit to stick. Works fine if I leave in 23.976, but when switching between 23.976 and other refresh rates like 60 every once in awhile RGB for 4K 23.976 switches back to 8 bit, which of course screws up HDR until manually toggling back to 12 bit.

Asmodian

24th July 2018, 02:57

SamuriHL

24th July 2018, 03:13

I'm seeing the same with 8bit on my C8. Working very well with HDR.

huhn

24th July 2018, 04:14

That's what I get for doing things from memory and not looking. You are correct, that's colorspace.

Gamma: BT.1886

That is what I meant to say.

that't a gamma choicen on the black level of a display a oled should respond with a 2.4 gamma in that setting but they obviously don't do that.

but no matter what you change as a gamma setting there is nothing to change in madVR.

wnholt01

24th July 2018, 05:14

Yes, this is a known issue with current Nvidia drivers. :(

Try 382.53 or 385.28.

edit: It doesn't have to mess up HDR though, my LG OLED (C7) handles 8 bit HDR even better than 10 bit HDR (less banding, madVR's dithering is better than the TVs - or something).

Thanks. I know 8 bit HDR is technically supported but I thought it wasn't recommended. For some reason image goes mostly pink when sending RGB 8 bit HDR to my JVC projector. Good to know it isn't caused by a limitation of 8 bit HDR.

Asmodian

24th July 2018, 07:23

Yes, I think that is due to the projector not handling it correctly, because all HDR capable hardware players output 10+ bits, rather than a limitation of HDR itself. You do need good dithering to avoid banding with 8 bit HDR content, something that does not live through compression (like the HEVC on a UHD bluray) but does for madVR's output or video games.

that't a gamma choicen on the black level of a display a oled should respond with a 2.4 gamma in that setting but they obviously don't do that.

Interestingly I do not measure a notable difference between my LG C7's 2.4 and BT.1886 settings, but they are not exactly pure power 2.4 near black either (it actually rises slower, I think to make shadows look very deep). The 2.2 setting is pretty close to 2.2 though.

SamuriHL

24th July 2018, 13:31

that't a gamma choicen on the black level of a display a oled should respond with a 2.4 gamma in that setting but they obviously don't do that.

but no matter what you change as a gamma setting there is nothing to change in madVR.Good to know thanks. Like I said I'm still learning on this 4k stuff so I'll probably ask a bunch of stupid questions while I get it dialed in. Thanks for your patience!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Manni

24th July 2018, 16:41

Thanks. I know 8 bit HDR is technically supported but I thought it wasn't recommended. For some reason image goes mostly pink when sending RGB 8 bit HDR to my JVC projector. Good to know it isn't caused by a limitation of 8 bit HDR.

It's not caused by a limitation of 8bits HDR, it's a bug in the JVCs.

The only thing you need to do to get the JVC to work with HDR 8bits, as reported a few times, is to disable "Send HDR Metadata" if using passthrough, or use the HDR to SDR conversion wiht Pixel Shader.

The magenta bug in the JVCs is far worse with recent nVidia drivers. It's only at 4K60p with 385.28 while it's all 8bits modes with the more recent ones. So it could be nVidia rather than JVC.

madFloyd

25th July 2018, 23:07

I'm trying to optimize madVR playback to avoid dropped and repeated frames. I *think* this boils down to subjects:

1) are there any obvious background processes that one should disable for a dedicated HTPC? I can't be sure that this is part of the problem, but I'm guessing it certainly wouldn't hurt.

2) My HTPC desktop runs at 3840x2160 23.979 (nVidia 1060 driver v385.28, running Kodi DSPlayer) so I don't have to change resolution (and experience HDMI handshake with my JVC projector) when playing movies.

I cannot get it to run at 23.976. I've tried custom resolutions specifying 23.976 to no avail. I've been told that only Intel graphic cards will do 23.976. If this is true, I will have to live with a frame repeat every so often and so be it, but can someone confirm?

Thanks in advance.

huhn

25th July 2018, 23:42

1. shouldn't affect repeated dropped frames.

2. read this: http://madvr.com/crt/CustomResTutorial.html
getting 23.976 is not the point of this.

Asmodian

26th July 2018, 00:23

Redemption80

26th July 2018, 00:29

As someone who has spend about a decade being annoyed by this (eventually giving up and speeding things up to 24fps for about 4-5 years) my main advice would be do not overthink it, and use your eyes as the judge, not an OSD reporting frame drops/repeats.
Driver 390.70 and an optimised custom res was what i stuck with for most of 2018, a nice little custom res that only dropped a frame every couple of days,but every driver after that the sane custom res (Created within MadVR) would fail.

Recently Nvidia fixed their drivers and 398.36 has proper 23.976 support after years of 23.970, and from a few weeks of testing i think its great. OSD did trigger my OCD with the reported drop every 12-13mins, but i can't see it and i have really looked

Browsing this thread, i've saw that JVC projecters and newer Nvidia drivers may have issues so that may not be an option, but 385.28 should be good if you let MadVR optimise for 30-60mins and afterwards you have a good selection of custom resolutions to test.

Again, as someone who used to get overly techincal but has fallen behind with old age, my main advice would have minimal exposure to any OSD or stats.

Q-the-STORM

26th July 2018, 06:38

I get a very nice ~1 day between drops/repeats estimated (with no drops/repeats during playback) with an Nvidia GPU, drivers 398.36, Windows 10, and a custom resolution

8 bit or 10/12 bit?

I just updated to 398.36 to see if it works with my 1080ti, but when I create a custom resolution it always switches to 8 bit.

Asmodian

26th July 2018, 08:57

8 bit, my TV works better with 8 bit input anyway but it is a limitation of custom modes with current drivers. :(

ryrynz

26th July 2018, 09:06

Has anyone documented the various issues with their latest drivers and actually reported them? I don't get why theses issues are still around almost a year after they surfaced.

Manni

26th July 2018, 13:35

Browsing this thread, i've saw that JVC projecters and newer Nvidia drivers may have issues so that may not be an option, but 385.28 should be good if you let MadVR optimise for 30-60mins and afterwards you have a good selection of custom resolutions to test.

There is no need to run the 30-60mn optimize with the JVC, none of the options work except the default EDID/CTA, which gives one hour or so without a frame drop/repeat in 4K23p and about a day at 1080p (with 385.28).

Has anyone documented the various issues with their latest drivers and actually reported them? I don't get why theses issues are still around almost a year after they surfaced.

Has anyone ever had success reporting any bug to nVidia? I've never got any reply or seen any improvement, so I haven't bothered with the recent bugs, as it looks like many of them are JVC specific, so they couldn't care less as they wouldn't be able to reproduce.

Here is my recap (I've given up trying new drivers, I'll try one when someone with a JVC reports that a new driver works fine). Note that this is with the rig described in my sig, testing 4K23p RGB 12bits 4:4:4 for all 23p HD and UHD 2D content, 4K50/60p RGB 8bits 4:4:4 for all 50/60p content and 1080p23FP for 3D Mkvs. I have no idea what results others get.

https://imgur.com/a/xekcsZ6

madFloyd

26th July 2018, 13:38

1. shouldn't affect repeated dropped frames.

2. read this: http://madvr.com/crt/CustomResTutorial.html
getting 23.976 is not the point of this.

Thank you! Fascinating stuff.

sniper

26th July 2018, 18:37

What subtitle renderer are you using? The function doesn't work with subtitle filters that render on the video themselves ((xy-)vsfilter), only with those that use a separate subtitle interface (MPC-HC ISR, XySubFilter, AssFilter(Mod)).

It used to worked before with just the "don't draw subtitles" option checked, I haven't changed any settings since last year.

pirlouy

26th July 2018, 18:41

I get a very nice ~1 day between drops/repeats estimated (with no drops/repeats during playback) with an Nvidia GPU, drivers 398.36, Windows 10, and a custom resolution (added and tuned by madVR) for my LG C7. It is possible on something besides Intel. :o
I'm jealous ! :)
With the same driver, I can't create custom resolutions, either with madVR or nVidia tool. It doesn't let me add custom resolution because it considers I already have a 23 & 24 resolution.
If I delete 24 in my EDID, I can add a custom resolution, but only 23 and not 24 (since the 23 is considered a 24, old bug). So in case I had a 24fps video, I wouldn't be able to play it correctly.
So I gave up and use nVidia new standard 23.976Hz (resulting in 1 frame repeat every 11-12 minutes). :o

veggav

26th July 2018, 20:01

After reading you guys talking about the 23p situation on nvidia I tried to see if I could fix it on my end.

I'm on driver 398.36 and I'm using
Horizontal: 1276 + 88 + 416
Vertical 8 + 10 + 60
pixel clock 301.58 mhz.

In the OSD I get 23.97670hz but the composition rate changed to 23.978 instead of sticking to 23.976xx

Also in the optimized timming parameters I get 1 frame repeate every 4:40 minutes and it seems it doesn't matter that timing or pixel clock I choose.
Every time I change the current timing it shows the same 4:40 minutes, even if I use one of the optimized pixel clock that show no frame drops/repeats after a reboot it shows 1 frame repate every 4:40 minutes.

Also, I'm trying full screen exclusive now and while in FSE I get composition rate 60hz? Is that a bug or something?
The display is at 23.976

arcspin

26th July 2018, 20:10

In the OSD I get 23.97670hz but the composition rate changed to 23.978 instead of sticking to 23.976xx

Hi,
Can someone please explain what the composition rate is and why it is different from the osd refresh rate.

(I asked this question earlier in this thread but I think my question got lost in a couple of other questions I had in the same post.)

Cheers,
Peter

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

veggav

26th July 2018, 20:56

Hi,
Can someone please explain what the composition rate is and why it is different from the osd refresh rate.

(I asked this question earlier in this thread but I think my question got lost in a couple of other questions I had in the same post.)

Cheers,
Peter

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Yeah, I actually would like to know this myself.

Asmodian

26th July 2018, 21:33

el Filou

26th July 2018, 21:42

Has anyone ever had success reporting any bug to nVidia? I've never got any reply or seen any improvement, so I haven't bothered with the recent bugs, as it looks like many of them are JVC specific, so they couldn't care less as they wouldn't be able to reproduce.Last year I reported a bug, never got any feedback, but then it was fixed in the next driver branch. No idea if it was luck or if me reporting it helped.

arcspin

26th July 2018, 22:38

The composition rate is the Desktop Window Manager (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/dwm/dwm-overview) which controls when screen updates actually happen. It is pretty good in Windows 10 (though Windows 8.1 is the best one according to madshi), and it is required for proper playback.Great and thank you for an concise answer.
Is the composition rate anything to take into account when trying to set custom refresh rate or is it what it is. Is the Composition rate something that can and should be changed.

For me I have different refresh rates showing in Nvidia, Win 10 composition rate and in Vertex.

Again, thank you for sharing. This is s very interesting topic.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Asmodian

26th July 2018, 22:52

I would not worry about small differences in the composition rate, but it will cause trouble if the composition rate is 60 Hz while the refresh rate is 23.976 Hz or drastic mismatches like that. The composition rate should be close to the refresh rate, e.g. Windows 10 will set it to 24.000 Hz for a 24 Hz refresh rate or 23.977 Hz for a 23.976 Hz refresh rate.

arcspin

26th July 2018, 22:56

amayra

26th July 2018, 23:19

do i need new GPU with HDR support to watch 10bit video in my 10bit display with madvr ?

Asmodian

27th July 2018, 00:23

No, but your GPU has to support 10 bit and enough bandwidth for the resolution and refresh rate. HDR does not enter into it.

JarrettH

27th July 2018, 01:46

madshi, can smooth motion be further improved to retain sharpness like the original frame? Thanks.

ryrynz

27th July 2018, 08:00

Only via some motion interpolation (in which case just use your TV, apparently Sony is the best in this area) I did suggest the idea of sharpening only the blended frames some years back to madshi to combat this, but I guess it wasn't that great an idea.

huhn

27th July 2018, 08:13

frame interpolation is far less sharp because the main idea behind it is creating blurred frames in motion to hide artifacts

foozoor

27th July 2018, 08:38

madshi, can smooth motion be further improved to retain sharpness like the original frame? Thanks.
Yes, with the new madshi's algo and two or three nvidia 1180 GTX. :cool:

Siso

27th July 2018, 08:40

A question about refresh rate since I'm always using custom resolution with 72hz, if I install windows 8.1 some day, do I need to enable this option in madvr - "hack Direct3D to make 24.000Hz and 60.000Hz work"?

ryrynz

27th July 2018, 13:09

frame interpolation is far less sharp because the main idea behind it is creating blurred frames in motion to hide artifacts

Not overall less sharp, this is why you get Soap Opera effects. Blending is far more soft in practice, I can quite clearly see this enabling Smooth motion vs enabling Frame Creation on my TV.

sauma144

27th July 2018, 15:47

JarrettH

27th July 2018, 16:20

Yes, with the new madshi's algo and two or three nvidia 1180 GTX. :cool:

:p:D:D

The sharpness difference isn't devastating. If the original frame is 5/5, then smooth motion is 4/5. Thought it might be something to think about if smooth motion is improved.

franketto

27th July 2018, 17:26

I have W10 build 17134 with i7-7700 integrated Intel HD630 on a Asrock mini-itx.
I also did a 3d-LUT with displayCal with MadVR.
I get random crashes with BlueScreen (first screen freezes, then becomes black, then audio get crazy, then BOD) when playing video with madVR enabled, using MPC-HC or Potplayer. When I disable madVR, i.e. with EVR all is fine.
BOD Error VIDEO_SCHEDULER_INTERNAL_ERROR
Can pass also 10 days with no crash, but sooner or later...
Generally I get the crash when scrolling the wheel to jump forward or backward.
What can I do to solve this?

Asmodian

27th July 2018, 17:42

That sounds like a hardware issue, maybe overheating?

A question about refresh rate since I'm always using custom resolution with 72hz, if I install windows 8.1 some day, do I need to enable this option in madvr - "hack Direct3D to make 24.000Hz and 60.000Hz work"?

You only need to enable that if you get 59.940 or 23.976 Hz when you ask for 60.000 or 24.000 Hz.

franketto

27th July 2018, 17:49

I thought of overheating, but I don't think: without madVR I get no crash at all with the same room temp for weeks.

Siso

27th July 2018, 18:03

That sounds like a hardware issue, maybe overheating?

You only need to enable that if you get 59.940 or 23.976 Hz when you ask for 60.000 or 24.000 Hz.

Thank you for the info, sir.

huhn

27th July 2018, 18:11

Not overall less sharp, this is why you get Soap Opera effects. Blending is far more soft in practice, I can quite clearly see this enabling Smooth motion vs enabling Frame Creation on my TV.

not here to talk about what you see but how it works.

motion interpoalted frames are blurry and this is less sharp and motion interpolations are blending frames all the time too if they simply can't guess more presicely. while smoothmotion creats ghosting frames which are more or less visibile depending on how fast your screen is. if you have a very slow VA panel it is not much different from normal playback without over driving the not much different part has to be taking with a lot of salt.

the deal changer is the refreshrate blending a frame to a 120 HZ screen or to a 60 HZ is vastly different most motion interpolationals do this at 120 HZ. smoothmaotionat 120 Hz is so good it is not worth disabling.

changing the bblended frame make it mathematical incorrect.

zaemon

27th July 2018, 18:26

Not overall less sharp, this is why you get Soap Opera effects. Blending is far more soft in practice, I can quite clearly see this enabling Smooth motion vs enabling Frame Creation on my TV.

I’m using it with anime content only. It gets rid of the poor motion of some 24p content without adding the soap opera effect. Soap opera effect would not be an issue with those content though. I don’t really understand why I don’t like anime content at 24p but I’m fine with movies. I don’t know if those shows are really « rendered » with 24 different frames per second.

Ver Greeneyes

27th July 2018, 19:24

I thought of overheating, but I don't think: without madVR I get no crash at all with the same room temp for weeks.
madVR can be quite stressful for the GPU, especially NGU (which causes coil whine for some people because it's so taxing). You should test with something like GPU-Z and see what kind of temperature your GPU reaches while running madVR.

Asmodian

27th July 2018, 19:28

Movies have motion blur captured by the camera and anime doesn't.

franketto

27th July 2018, 19:43

madVR can be quite stressful for the GPU, especially NGU (which causes coil whine for some people because it's so taxing). You should test with something like GPU-Z and see what kind of temperature your GPU reaches while running madVR.
Hi Ver, I tested with GPU-Z:

1080p 49° avg 57%GPU 52°CPUmax
2160p 52° avg 80%GPU 59°CPUmax

So, I would exclude a problem in T°, all seems quite normal even at 4k.

More, I'm sure I got a BOD playing a SD 720x480 video one time...

EDIT:
In EVR I get 43° instead of 49°, so not so much difference, of course mad is more GPU intensive but not uncontrollable in my system.

veggav

27th July 2018, 20:42

madVR can be quite stressful for the GPU, especially NGU (which causes coil whine for some people because it's so taxing). You should test with something like GPU-Z and see what kind of temperature your GPU reaches while running madVR.

Oh so that was whar I was hearing here.
I could this whinning when trying different pixel clocks here.

It stopped after a while.

Asmodian

27th July 2018, 21:39

I tested with GPU-Z:

1080p 49° avg 57%GPU 52°CPUmax
2160p 52° avg 80%GPU 59°CPUmax

Those are really low temps for a GPU at 80% load, do you have aftermarket cooling or a model with extreme cooling? I notice you quote CPU max temps, which seem like max values you might expect given those average temps. Are you sure those are your GPU temps?

How about other GPU heavy loads, maybe Heaven (https://benchmark.unigine.com/heaven)?