madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Budtz]

No settings sadly fixes it for me

I did manage to get it somewhat stable with glitches and fremedrops only about every 15 minutes. before the creators update there none of these issues

threads are starting to pop op around the web with ppl having the same problems

I take that back. disabeling FSE fixes the issue. the system behaves a bit different but its fine.

I have another problem however. i get glitches if i use dxva in lav filters. what could couse this? cuvid is fine

[pose]

madshi, i tested new NGU variants with low res low quality anime (direct quadruple very high vs AA 2x doubling very high) and must say that i still like NGU AA the most. NGU Standard is much better than NGU Sharp for low quality anime as it has much less "oil painting" effect and less aliasing but has some "flat" look to it compared to NGU AA. NGU AA has visibly less focus and sharpness compared to NGU Standard but has less aliasing and looks more pleasing and more uniform to me. So far Standard looks like a good alternative to NGU AA for those that want something sharper but not NGU Sharp level of sharp and with slightly thinner lines. I dont really like NGU Soft as it has less focus than NGU AA, thins lines too much and has more aliasing.

[ryrynz]

I thought NGU soft might be worth a look with a sharper Avisynth script but it still doesn't work as well as AA does, so I won't ever use it.
Since the only low resolution content I watch is anime I don't use the other upscalers so won't be commenting on them.

I'm looking forward to the Avisynth/Vapoursnyth support the most, denoising, deblocking and further improvements to NGU AA chroma/luma.

I've been using the following for denoising/deblocking for a long time through Avisynth, FluxsmoothST(12,4).FluxsmoothT(4).Merge(last,0.49)
If you're using ffdshow raw like I am and you're in need of some real-time denoising until madVR adds it, give it a shot.

[dipje]

Actually, there will be a new product available pretty soon, making most of the madVR algos available to avi/vapoursynth users. There will be a "pro" version of this new product and a free version. The free version will have some limitions, which will hopefully not be too dramatic, but motivate real "pro" users/companies to buy the pro version. This is all I can say about this for now. More details to be announced later.
This is awesome to hear! Does that mean things like ngu and reconstruction are made available as you accelerated plugins ? Or only hdr->sdr related stuff ?

I hope the price of the pro version is within reach for hobby people like me who pretend they need pro features :).

[superperez]

Hi guys!
Can you help me?
If I use Nahimic2_2.5.6 (audio tool for MSI) I do not have madvr. It just does not start. But if I install Nahimic2_2.3.15, then everything works.
The whole trouble is that version 2.5.6 is better sound, as it seems to me

[cork_OS]

I've been using the following for denoising/deblocking for a long time through Avisynth, FluxsmoothST(12,4).FluxsmoothT(4).Merge(last,0.49)
If you're using ffdshow raw like I am and you're in need of some real-time denoising until madVR adds it, give it a shot.
For me KNLMeansCL do much better job both for denoising and deblocking, although I've failed to find really good real-time deblocker.

[Asmodian]

I have done some experimenting with the new NGU Soft and Standard options. Standard seems very good, a nice middle ground between Sharp and Anti-Alias. I don't find NGU Soft to be particularly useful, I generally prefer NGU Anti-Alias over NGU Soft. By default I still use NGU Sharp for high quality and NGU AA for low quality material but I will keep Standard in mind for content where Sharp is too sharp. Impressive work as always. :thanks:

I have noticed that the "let madVR decide" option for chroma quadrupling does not react to direct quadrupling settings so you can get odd results.

Example:
luma doubling = very high, luma quadrupling = direct quadruple -> low, chroma = let madVR decide, results in:
luma > NGU Standard (low) 4x
chroma > NGU Standard (med) 4x

It would be great if the "let madVR decide" option for chroma algorithm quality could reference the luma quadrupling quality option when using direct quadrupling. :)

[Damien147]

Since creators update I had a ''getting display mode failed'' message in madvr.Resetting settings did nothing but it seems a few restarts solved the problem.
Not completely sure about this one but I think that icc profile gets disabled when going fullscreen.I have only ticked ''this display is already calibrated'' in calibration settings.
Also settings in chroma upscaling,image downscaling,image upscaling open behind the open window.

[jerryleungwh]

Not sure if it has anything to do with creator update but with intel hd graphics 4400 I was able watch 1080p source witha 1080p monitor while doing Jinc chroma upscaling but now after playing for a couple seconds the rendering suddenly jumps from around 20 to 40-45 and I get a lot of stutter and frame drops and I need to switch to Bicubic150 so it plays smoothly, anyone having similar issues?

[Asmodian]

I have something similar happen when my GPU downclocks too much. Maybe temperature or too aggressive power saving?

[jerryleungwh]

I have something similar happen when my GPU downclocks too much. Maybe temperature or too aggressive power saving?

Hm I didn't mess with power saving options so unless it is changed by default upon the update I doubt it has something to do with it, and temperature should be somewhat the same as before too

[XMonarchY]

For those mentioning problems with ReClock and the creators update a couple pages back, it's a problem with FSE. Disable that for the moment and clear the clock timings database in ReClock settings.

Yeah, but is the problem with FSE or with Creator's Update or with ReClock? madVR FSE worked perfectly fine before Creator's Update.

For now I am sticking to just using 24.000Hz mode for my TV - that way I can enjoy FSE's 10bit+ color depth.

Has madshi looked into it? I already reported it on ReClock forums and some members there confirmed the existence of this issue. It is specific to Creator's Update, not pre-Creator's Update Windows 10.

[Knight77]

HDR question: I'm playing a HDR BT2020 video and my TV support HDR . In madvr settings I selected HDR passthrough, obviously when I started the video I manually changed TV mode from normal Cinema to HDR video.
When it's playing video info (crtl+J) show

"hdr 1000 nits bt2020 -> dci-p3"

Is it normal/correct? Why "->DCI-P3"?

Thanks!

[sneaker_ger]

It's normal.
It's normal when I play an HDR video with Windows10 and KODI or MPC-HC, the madvr show me this info:

matrix BT.2020
primaries BT.2020
HDR 4000 nits, BT.2020 -> DCI-P3

Why DCI-P3 and not BT.2020?

This is for all HDR videos
Yes. The "-> DCI-P3" is the metadata information that tells us how the studio monitor was calibrated when the movie was graded. It usually also tells us how large a gamut the movie is really using. Almost all movies today use DCI-P3. It's not a surprise because masters for movie theaters also use DCI-P3.

[steakhutzeee]

Noob question, what is this KNLMeansCL? i read about it but i did not understand, i can't use it with madvr?

[cork_OS]

Noob question, what is this KNLMeansCL? i read about it but i did not understand, i can't use it with madvr?
KNLMeansCL (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171379) is GPU-based denoising filter for Avisynth/Vapoursynth. Until madVR has no it's own AVS/VS interface, you can use AVS filters via inserting ffdshow_raw filter in DirectShow filter chain.
Seems easiest way to play with AVS filters is to install SVP, check that it's working, then disable it and paste own Avisynth script in ffdshow_raw settings.

[Allamar]

Hello all,

Thought I would post here. Since I went to the creators update for some reasons files encoded in Hi10p (10bit color) are taking a tremendous amount of GPU power in madVR. If I play a normal 8bit file using NGU AA high on both chroma/image upscaling it uses about 25% of my GPU (1080Ti), but a HI10P files will max it at 100% and drop frames. It wasn't like that before the update! I have no idea what's going on =) Just wondering if anybody else has tested this? I wonder if it has to do with the move to WDDM 1.3.

As a side note its only when I go into full screen on the HI10p files (not FSE). If I play the Hi10p and 8 bit in the same size of window GPU usage is 100% same - but when I maximize the HI10P GPU usage goes ballistic. It didn't do that before. I can make the HI10P window the size of my screen and my GPU usage stays low ,but the second I double click it to maximize it GPU usage is through the roof with dropped frames

[Asmodian]

Hm I didn't mess with power saving options so unless it is changed by default upon the update I doubt it has something to do with it, and temperature should be somewhat the same as before too

The power saving option does change by default when the driver updates, which I think happens when Windows updates itself. I have to set it back to adaptive every time a new driver comes out.

[jerryleungwh]

The power saving option does change by default when the driver updates, which I think happens when Windows updates itself. I have to set it back to adaptive every time a new driver comes out.
Thanks, I just checked and it did changed upon update so I turned off all power saving options but then the problem is still there and is even worse, it does seem like the problem I have is similar to the post above your reply though, anyone else start to have issues after the creator update?

[Oguignant]

Option "Enhance detail" is on two sides: Processing>Image enhancements>Enhance detail and Scaling algorithms>Upscaling refinement>Enhance detail.

What is the difference between the two options? Which one is better to use?

[Oguignant]

I don't think any 3dlut software supports that yet. I've added the option in case some software wants to add support for that.


My apologies if I'm wrong but I think CalMAN 5.x have the option to calibrate bt2020 (hdr and sdr) and also dolby vision (rs65 and rs120) colorspace.

http://i.imgur.com/axh05rll.png

[Asmodian]

Option "Enhance detail" is on two sides: Processing>Image enhancements>Enhance detail and Scaling algorithms>Upscaling refinement>Enhance detail.

What is the difference between the two options? Which one is better to use?

Image enhancements happen before scaling, upscaling refinement happens after.

Before is stronger but after looks better, in my opinion, though there isn't an objectively better one to use. You can use both at the same time too, if you want really a lot of sharpening.

[Oguignant]

Image enhancements happen before scaling, upscaling refinement happens after.

Before is stronger but after looks better, in my opinion, though there isn't an objectively better one to use. You can use both at the same time too, if you want really a lot of sharpening.

Just as he imagined. To me in some cases looks better before and in others looks better after. I have not tried both at the same time. I'm trying out my new video card Gigabyte 1080 ti Aorus X ... it's amazing the performance I get ... much better than with my gtx 1080 g1.

[tingtong5]

I am using a HDMI extender between my HTPC and Projector that is capable of 2160p but max 30 Hz.

Therefore I would like to send 1080p 50/60 fps content in 1080p resolution to my prjector instead of upscaling to 2160p.

Resolution of windows is set to 3840x2160@30Hz

the display properties in madvr to:
2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 1080p50, 1080p60

It works, Madvr sends 1080p @ 50/60 fps content in 1080p 50/60 Hz to my projector, HOWEVER I do see only a quarter of what should be displayed. Seems like the image is still upscaled to 2160p and only a quarter of it is displayed on the projector.

How can I avoid this?

Thanks Ronald

[huhn]

this is maybe the windows 10 internal scaling.

the only way i know to disable it is to set " change the size of text, apps..." to 100%.
maybe fullscreen exclusive mode helps.

this is a guess changing the resolution on windows 10 got quite tricky...

[XMonarchY]

Hello all,

Thought I would post here. Since I went to the creators update for some reasons files encoded in Hi10p (10bit color) are taking a tremendous amount of GPU power in madVR. If I play a normal 8bit file using NGU AA high on both chroma/image upscaling it uses about 25% of my GPU (1080Ti), but a HI10P files will max it at 100% and drop frames. It wasn't like that before the update! I have no idea what's going on =) Just wondering if anybody else has tested this? I wonder if it has to do with the move to WDDM 1.3.

As a side note its only when I go into full screen on the HI10p files (not FSE). If I play the Hi10p and 8 bit in the same size of window GPU usage is 100% same - but when I maximize the HI10P GPU usage goes ballistic. It didn't do that before. I can make the HI10P window the size of my screen and my GPU usage stays low ,but the second I double click it to maximize it GPU usage is through the roof with dropped frames

Yeah, Creator's Update messed something up or changed the way things worked before... I hope madVR developer is looking into it - I am more than willing to test or provide as much info as.possible to debug this problem.

[nevcairiel]

Try disabling the Windows 10 Game bar. I'm not experiencing such slowdowns myself.

[lunnar]

HDR question: I'm playing a HDR BT2020 video and my TV support HDR . In madvr settings I selected HDR passthrough, obviously when I started the video I manually changed TV mode from normal Cinema to HDR video.
When it's playing video info (crtl+J) show

"hdr 1000 nits bt2020 -> dci-p3"

Is it normal/correct? Why "->DCI-P3"?

Thanks!

I got a related question for you guys :

I also watch HDR clips thru MadVR using passthruHDR and it look very good on my JVC HDR projector.

that is for all clips that are "hdr 1000 nits bt2020 -> dci-p3"

but I got a couple of dolby Vision Clips that show :
"hdr 10000 nits bt2020" with no dci-p3 conversion info

now those clips end up with oversaturated color and a greenish tint to it.

What bugs me is that I will have expected the oposite to work since on my projector settings the color space in HDR is BT2020.

For now I will try to make a custom HDR settings on my projector and manually ajust the color to try and get something good, but I wonder what am I missing here?

[tingtong5]

Thanks, but I am running windows 7, not 10. also I am already using exclusive mode.

this is maybe the windows 10 internal scaling.

the only way i know to disable it is to set " change the size of text, apps..." to 100%.
maybe fullscreen exclusive mode helps.

this is a guess changing the resolution on windows 10 got quite tricky...

[dioxholster]

Regarding the upcoming HDR metadata support… will we need to watch out for the HDR format "war" when choosing a display for playing HDR content from a PC with madVR? From what I can tell there is HDR10, Dolby Vision and HLG. Which standards do the nVidia/Microsoft APIs support? Will we need to be careful when shopping for TVs? Does it even matter?

Im in the dark, whats so cool about HDR10? why didnt they have the wide gamut before? I thought HDR was something that looked fake, why would we want that?


NGU Sharp now targets middle ground between gamma and linear light

Im curious about this one, stupid question, if some studios use linear light to downscale, is there no way for us to know somehow?



I think im also getting an error "madvr report: getting display mode failed" This could be because of the creators update. It happens when I raise the volume inside exclusive mode, the movie stutters and it becomes impossible to play anything again unless i restart the PC.

[Asmodian]

Im in the dark, whats so cool about HDR10? why didnt they have the wide gamut before? I thought HDR was something that looked fake, why would we want that?

HDR10 is the lowest common denominator for HDR specs currently available. HDR is finally real HDR, assuming you get a display that is actually capable of real HDR. HDR10 isn't enough to be sure of good HDR performance but at least it is a spec for it.

HDR allows both higher contrast and wider gamuts than previous specs, we have never had content mastered to wide gamuts or with peak brightness so high before, only fake "enhanced" versions.

Im curious about this one, stupid question, if some studios use linear light to downscale, is there no way for us to know somehow?

No, there is no way for us to know what was used. :(

I think im also getting an error "madvr report: getting display mode failed" This could be because of the creators update. It happens when I raise the volume inside exclusive mode, the movie stutters and it becomes impossible to play anything again unless i restart the PC.

I suggest you don't use exclusive mode with Windows 10. It doesn't seem to work well and it doesn't offer any benefits, at least for me.

I am running Windows 10 Pro x64 with the creators update, version 1703, build 15063.138, with a Titan X (Pascal), driver version 381.65. I don't have any issues when using madVR with Direct3D 11 with present frame for every vsync checked or windowed overlay.

[MistahBonzai]

...I suggest you don't use exclusive mode with Windows 10. It doesn't seem to work well and it doesn't offer any benefits, at least for me...
D3D11 exclusive (10 bit) ?

[ryrynz]

That's really all there is to it.. and with many panels you don't stand to gain much of anything from it anyway.

[dipje]

Im in the dark, whats so cool about HDR10? why didnt they have the wide gamut before? I thought HDR was something that looked fake, why would we want that?

What you see as the 'fake HDR look', what that actually is is a lot of dynamic range squeezed into our old SDR displays.

What HDR now is, is a way to _truely_ display that dynamic range, more like our eyes see the world, without having to squeeze the stuff into our old displays.

Very dumbed down, but in your words: HDR-movie tech is exactly meant to show the detail of HDR _without_ that fake HDR look you talk about :)

[oddball]

Win10's 'Film & TV' player plays HDR content correctly. It is just a rubbish player for everything else and has no support for high definition audio codecs like TrueHD or DTS-HD. I also notice using MPC I get a hell of a lot more dropped frames on 4K content.

[foozoor]

Win10's 'Film & TV' player plays HDR content correctly. It is just a rubbish player for everything else and has no support for high definition audio codecs like TrueHD or DTS-HD. I also notice using MPC I get a hell of a lot more dropped frames on 4K content.
The pre-installed win10 video player uses the current microsoft API, madVR and almost everything from doom9 are based on the deprecated directshow.

[Neo-XP]

Another quick comparison between Bicubic60 AR / NGU Sharp low / NGU Sharp med for chroma doubling :

https://s2.postimg.org/v6ya88x51/Bicubic60_AR.png (https://postimg.org/image/v6ya88x51/) https://s2.postimg.org/nqzitd2v9/NGU_Sharp_low.png (https://postimg.org/image/nqzitd2v9/) https://s2.postimg.org/gca70zgzp/NGU_Sharp_med.png (https://postimg.org/image/gca70zgzp/)

As you can see, NGU Sharp is far from perfect for chroma doubling. NGU Sharp med is a nice improvement over NGU Sharp low, but still too sharp.

@madshi Have you considered proposing other NGU variants, and unlocking the "NGU med" option for chroma doubling when "NGU high" is used for luma doubling ?

[huhn]

what has directshow to do with this problem?

[nevcairiel]

what has directshow to do with this problem?

Nothing, just uninformed users buying into "newer is better" hype, while they can't even configure their player correctly for their hardware, and thus get dropped frames.
If you want to match the playback performance of the default video player in windows, set LAV Video to DXVA2 Native and use EVR as your renderer (not EVR Custom, and definitely not madVR).

[foozoor]

what has directshow to do with this problem?

The deprecated term was quite extreme but is correct.
And it's normal to see the win10 video player working with the new win10 hdr feature.

DXVA2 Native

I think the retarded win10 video player uses d3d11va, there is maybe a fallback for deprecated AMD cards that don't support d3d11va (greenish screen bug).

[StinDaWg]

Has anyone played around with Game Mode on latest Windows 10 update? Game Mode can be turned on for any application, and it's supposed to allocate more cpu/gpu resources to that program.

Theoretically this should improve stability with mpc-hc/madVR, so you don't have background processes sucking resources during video playback, no?

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/25/14390990/microsoft-windows-10-game-mode-explanation

[huhn]

i can tell you what VALVE things about it.

i make it short they warn you if it is running and even give you a pop up that you should disable it with linked guides to avoid freezes and other major issues.

feel free to try it out but i don't see a reason that it would help madVR what so ever.

[nevcairiel]

I think the retarded win10 video player uses d3d11va, there is maybe a fallback for deprecated AMD cards that don't support d3d11va (greenish screen bug).

Its just a different API for the same hardware decoder. Performance wise its pretty much identical.

[foozoor]

Its just a different API for the same hardware decoder. Performance wise its pretty much identical.

You're probably right. But what about quality?

dxva2 is not safe. It appears to always use BT.601 for forced RGB conversion, but actual behavior depends on the GPU drivers

d3d11va is usually safe (if used with ANGLE builds that support EGL_KHR_stream path - otherwise, it converts to RGB)

[madshi]

madshi, what about the usage of sharper relaxed AR instead of strict in downscaling after doubling? You said you could reconsider this and apply it more granular depending on the sharpness of a doubling algorithm, as on weak GPUs it adds an excessive load without visible benefits and thus sometimes prevents use of a doubling algorithm with better quality. Can you please apply strict AR at least on NGU AA and maybe also on super-xbr?
Ah yes, forgot about that. I've added it to my to do list.

Ok so, in the past i solved the "flickering" in the black parts of the screen during videos, the letterbox black, changing my monitor settings from 60 Hertz to 75.
But why i still have this sort of horizontal semitransparent flickering only in the video portion of the screen now? If i don't use madvr the flicker goes away. Maybe it's a madvr setting i set not properly?

Just to be clear, letterbox black bars are not flickered, solved by changing Hertz frequence. But i still have it in the video portion "between black bars".
I'm not completely sure how the flickering looks like, and where it comes from. Nobody else seems to have this problem. Can you describe how it looks like in more detail? Or maybe you can shoot a short video with your smartphone and upload it somewhere? (Helps only if the flickering can be seen on the video, of course).

i tested new NGU variants with low res low quality anime (direct quadruple very high vs AA 2x doubling very high) and must say that i still like NGU AA the most. NGU Standard is much better than NGU Sharp for low quality anime as it has much less "oil painting" effect and less aliasing but has some "flat" look to it compared to NGU AA. NGU AA has visibly less focus and sharpness compared to NGU Standard but has less aliasing and looks more pleasing and more uniform to me. So far Standard looks like a good alternative to NGU AA for those that want something sharper but not NGU Sharp level of sharp and with slightly thinner lines. I dont really like NGU Soft as it has less focus than NGU AA, thins lines too much and has more aliasing.
Ok, thanks!

I thought NGU soft might be worth a look with a sharper Avisynth script but it still doesn't work as well as AA does, so I won't ever use it.
Since the only low resolution content I watch is anime I don't use the other upscalers so won't be commenting on them.
Thanks. Seems nobody (including myself) likes NGU soft, so I can remove it. Instead maybe I'll add something in between NGU Sharp and NGU Standard.

I'm looking forward to the Avisynth/Vapoursnyth support the most, denoising, deblocking and further improvements to NGU AA chroma/luma.
Please note that the first Avi/VapourSynth support will be on the other end: Meaning making madVR algos available for Avi/VapourSynth users, for encoding videos etc. Running Avi/VapourSynth scripts inside of madVR is something that also on my to do list, but will come later.

This is awesome to hear! Does that mean things like ngu and reconstruction are made available as you accelerated plugins ? Or only hdr->sdr related stuff ?

I hope the price of the pro version is within reach for hobby people like me who pretend they need pro features :).
Most algos will be available, including all NGU variants and bilateral chroma upscaling. Reconstruction probably not because it requires DirectCompute, but I'm not sure yet. Price for the "pro" Avi/VapourSynth plugin version will be very high (from the view point of an end user), unfortunately, because that's the best way for me to get max income. Big companies don't mind paying high prices for good software. If I made a cheap price, I'd get a somewhat higher number of sold licenses, but overall income would be a LOT lower. Video (re)encoding is a very niche market and in such markets the only way to get reasonable income is to ask high prices.

madVR is a totally different topic because it's for end users, so it's much less of a niche market, compared to video encoding.

I have done some experimenting with the new NGU Soft and Standard options. Standard seems very good, a nice middle ground between Sharp and Anti-Alias. I don't find NGU Soft to be particularly useful, I generally prefer NGU Anti-Alias over NGU Soft. By default I still use NGU Sharp for high quality and NGU AA for low quality material but I will keep Standard in mind for content where Sharp is too sharp. Impressive work as always. :thanks:
Thanks!

I have noticed that the "let madVR decide" option for chroma quadrupling does not react to direct quadrupling settings so you can get odd results.

Example:
luma doubling = very high, luma quadrupling = direct quadruple -> low, chroma = let madVR decide, results in:
luma > NGU Standard (low) 4x
chroma > NGU Standard (med) 4x

It would be great if the "let madVR decide" option for chroma algorithm quality could reference the luma quadrupling quality option when using direct quadrupling. :)
Ooops. Thanks, will look into that.

Not completely sure about this one but I think that icc profile gets disabled when going fullscreen.I have only ticked ''this display is already calibrated'' in calibration settings.
Also settings in chroma upscaling,image downscaling,image upscaling open behind the open window.
Could it be the GPU driver which disables the ICC profile in fullscreen mode? I'm not sure. Did this happen before the win10 update?

Which "open window"? Is that window an "on top" window? The settings dialog should be "on top" all other windows, unless the other windows are "on top", too. That's a specific window style.

Thought I would post here. Since I went to the creators update for some reasons files encoded in Hi10p (10bit color) are taking a tremendous amount of GPU power in madVR. If I play a normal 8bit file using NGU AA high on both chroma/image upscaling it uses about 25% of my GPU (1080Ti), but a HI10P files will max it at 100% and drop frames. It wasn't like that before the update! I have no idea what's going on =) Just wondering if anybody else has tested this?
People have been reporting all sorts of issues with the creators update, but this is the first time I hear about specific problems with 10bit content. Not sure what that could be. You don't have profiles in madVR which may activate depending on the source bitdepth? Other than that, maybe the GPU clocks down which could cause problems? Or maybe some 3rd party software running which might also access the GPU, like GpuZ, f.lux or anything like that?

My apologies if I'm wrong but I think CalMAN 5.x have the option to calibrate bt2020 (hdr and sdr) and also dolby vision (rs65 and rs120) colorspace.
Yes, there is software available which can do HDR calibration via 3dluts. But the special madVR option to "process" HDR content via a 3dlut, but still keep it HDR is somewhat unusual and I don't think any calibration software supports this specific mode just yet.

I am using a HDMI extender between my HTPC and Projector that is capable of 2160p but max 30 Hz.

Therefore I would like to send 1080p 50/60 fps content in 1080p resolution to my prjector instead of upscaling to 2160p.

Resolution of windows is set to 3840x2160@30Hz

the display properties in madvr to:
2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 1080p50, 1080p60

It works, Madvr sends 1080p @ 50/60 fps content in 1080p 50/60 Hz to my projector, HOWEVER I do see only a quarter of what should be displayed. Seems like the image is still upscaled to 2160p and only a quarter of it is displayed on the projector.
Can you make a screenshot of the OSD (Ctrl+J) when this problem occurs? It could be a bug in the media players, asking for this weird "zoom" config. It could be a weird bug in madVR. It could be a bug in the GPU drivers. Or in the OS. It's really hard to say. A screenshot of the OSD might help figuring a few things.

I also watch HDR clips thru MadVR using passthruHDR and it look very good on my JVC HDR projector.

that is for all clips that are "hdr 1000 nits bt2020 -> dci-p3"

but I got a couple of dolby Vision Clips that show :
"hdr 10000 nits bt2020" with no dci-p3 conversion info

now those clips end up with oversaturated color and a greenish tint to it.

What bugs me is that I will have expected the oposite to work since on my projector settings the color space in HDR is BT2020.

For now I will try to make a custom HDR settings on my projector and manually ajust the color to try and get something good, but I wonder what am I missing here?
You used "passthrough" for those Dolby Vision Clips, too? What happens if you display them in normal SDR mode, just like you display a conventional 1080p Blu-Ray? Do they have the typical "washed out" look that HDR videos have when played in SDR mode?

The pre-installed win10 video player uses the current microsoft API, madVR and almost everything from doom9 are based on the deprecated directshow.
Just because MS wants us devs to replace DirectShow with Media Foundation doesn't make that reality. 99% of all video related software both inside and outside of doom9 is using DirectShow, and there's not even a trend to switch to Media Foundation anywhere. And there's no good reason to, other than pleasing MS, maybe.

Whether the pre-installed win10 video player uses Media Foundation or DirectShow doesn't have much to do with HDR. The MS APIs to send HDR metadata to the display are totally separate from both DirectShow and Media Foundation. These new APIs are DXGI which is not video specific but is also used by games etc. Both Media Foundation and DirectShow software will have to use these new DXGI APIs to send HDR metadata to the display.

So in other words: Your comment was totally pointless. Unless you're saying we all have to do what MS wants, regardless of whether it makes any sense or brings any benefits.

Another quick comparison between Bicubic60 AR / NGU Sharp low / NGU Sharp med for chroma doubling :

As you can see, NGU Sharp is far from perfect for chroma doubling. NGU Sharp med is a nice improvement over NGU Sharp low, but still too sharp.
All I'm seeing here is that NGU Sharp is sharper than Bicubic60. But I don't see the "too sharp" here? What is your reference of how sharp the results should be? Are you saying that anything sharper than Bicubic60 is too sharp? If so, then that seems to be a rather subjective opinion to me. Unless you have a groundtruth which shows us that the chroma channel is supposed to be as blurry as in the Bicubic60 image?

I don't really understand the argument that when doubling resolution of an RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4 image, chroma should be doubled with a softer algo than luma. What is the scientific or logic reason for making such an argument? Most photo/video software out there actually scales in RGB, which produces very similar results to upscaling all YCbCr channels with the same algorithm/sharpness. The only reason why I'm doubling in YCbCr instead of RGB is that it allows me to spend more GPU power on the Y channel (which is more important) than the CbCr channels. But if GPU power were no issue, I'd *always* use the same algo for all 3 channels, or even double in RGB. I would even remove the option to choose a different chroma doubling algo. IMHO the only valid reason to use a different chroma algo for doubling is to save performance.

[Neo-XP]

All I'm seeing here is that NGU Sharp is sharper than Bicubic60. But I don't see the "too sharp" here? What is your reference of how sharp the results should be? Are you saying that anything sharper than Bicubic60 is too sharp?

No, I'm saying that NGU Sharp is too sharp and brutal for chroma doubling, even with very HQ content.
The result is unnatural and ugly for me.

Unless you have a groundtruth which shows us that the chroma channel is supposed to be as blurry as in the Bicubic60 image?

I don't think the result should be as blurry as in the Bicubic60 AR image, I think it should be a little less sharp than it is now to be more accurate, natural and pleasing to the eye, and cleaner (less aliasing and other artifacts that you can see now with NGU Sharp low, a little less with NGU Sharp med).
There is visibly room for improvements.

I don't really understand the argument that when doubling resolution of an RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4 image, chroma should be doubled with a softer algo than luma. What is the scientific or logic reason for making such an argument?

Maybe because the source is not RBG or YCbCr 4:4:4, but 4:2:0 (like 99.99% of video content I guess) ?
Chroma upscaling is not perfect either, so upscaling the RBG or YCbCr 4:4:4 result of a 4:2:0 content with the same algorithm for luma and chroma does not seem logical.
It would be logical if the source material was RBG or YCbCr 4:4:4.

What is your opinion on this ?

[madshi]

My opinion is that any problems you're seeing are more likely coming from suboptimal chroma upscaling (4:2:0 -> 4:4:4) than from chroma doubling. As I mentioned a couple times before, I do plan to create an NGU algo for chroma upscaling which makes use of the luma channel for guidance. Once that's implemented, artifacts like aliasing etc should be lower in the chroma channel. I would at least like to wait until then before I add any wild option mixes for different luma vs chroma doubling...

[lunnar]

You used "passthrough" for those Dolby Vision Clips, too? What happens if you display them in normal SDR mode, just like you display a conventional 1080p Blu-Ray? Do they have the typical "washed out" look that HDR videos have when played in SDR mode?


Yea, They got the same Washed out look of typical HDR material when I play them in SDR on my projector.

don't get me wrong, It looks pretty good in HDR, it's just a bit too much color saturation and a green tinted push but nothing like watching an SDR source in HDR mode.

[Neo-XP]

My opinion is that any problems you're seeing are more likely coming from suboptimal chroma upscaling (4:2:0 -> 4:4:4) than from chroma doubling. As I mentioned a couple times before, I do plan to create an NGU algo for chroma upscaling which makes use of the luma channel for guidance. Once that's implemented, artifacts like aliasing etc should be lower in the chroma channel. I would at least like to wait until then before I add any wild option mixes for different luma vs chroma doubling...

That makes sense. If you create the "perfect" algo for chroma upscaling, NGU Sharp should be the best option for chroma doubling.
I can't wait ! :script:

In the meantime, I hope I would be able to select NGU med for chroma doubling without having to buy a new GPU to be able to use NGU very high for luma :p
As already said and tested, NGU med is a big improvement over NGU low for chroma doubling. I have already maximized all the other options in madVR for my GPU and I have GPU resources to spend :)

For fun, here is a little comparison between Bicbic60 AR (with NGU Standard very high for luma) / Bicbic60 AR (with NGU Sharp very high for luma) / NGU Standard med (with NGU Standard very high for luma) / NGU Sharp med (with NGU Sharp very high for luma) for chroma doubling :

https://s18.postimg.org/lsyrw3bmd/Bicubic60_AR_with_NGU_Standard_very_high_for_lu.png (https://postimg.org/image/lsyrw3bmd/) https://s18.postimg.org/dm6s4iljp/Bicubic60_AR_with_NGU_Sharp_very_high_for_luma.png (https://postimg.org/image/dm6s4iljp/) https://s18.postimg.org/mxsu1gy39/NGU_Standard_med_with_NGU_Standard_very_high_fo.png (https://postimg.org/image/mxsu1gy39/) https://s18.postimg.org/68re5k1hx/NGU_Sharp_med_with_NGU_Sharp_very_high_for_luma.png (https://postimg.org/image/68re5k1hx/)

In order of preference : NGU Standard med (with NGU Standard very high for luma), Bicbic60 AR (with NGU Standard very high for luma), Bicbic60 AR (with NGU Sharp very high for luma) and NGU Sharp med (with NGU Sharp very high for luma). Soften edges at 1-2 can also help a lot here with NGU Sharp for chroma doubling.

PS : usually, I like very sharp images, but this new NGU Standard algo is very good !

[madshi]

Yea, They got the same Washed out look of typical HDR material when I play them in SDR on my projector.

don't get me wrong, It looks pretty good in HDR, it's just a bit too much color saturation and a green tinted push but nothing like watching an SDR source in HDR mode.
Well, in HDR passthrough mode madVR should not do anything to the pixels (except convert them from YCbCr 4:2:0 to RGB), so the green push is likely to come either from the source itself, or from the projector handling it incorrectly. You could try disabling the "calibration controls" or to set "this display is already calibrated to BT.2020" or "DCI" or "BT.709", but I think in HDR passthrough mode these settings are ignored, anyway. I'm not 100% sure right now, though.