madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Guest]

This sample is field blended. Meaning that it's not suitable for IVTC. The only way to achieve output without combing is to use video mode deinterlacing.

Oh, sorry for not seeing that, I didn't realize I had PureVideo deinterlacing enabled when I viewed it. :)

Still, my answer was correct for the field mode selection.

BTW, DGDecNV 2043rc1 now supports DXVA-quality deinterlacing.

[Boltron]

With overlay disabled:

00000519 Render Overlay Caps: -

ATI HD 5670, Catalyst 12.8
Win7 x64
MPC-HC (older version), LAV

[madshi]

Oh, sorry for not seeing that, I didn't realize I had PureVideo deinterlacing enabled when I viewed it. :)

Still, my answer was correct for the field mode selection.
No worries, and thanks for the heads-up on how to use DGindex for things like this.

[madshi]

madVR v0.83.1 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* fixed: Overlay is only activated for GPUs/drivers which support it
* fixed: Overlay stopped working in certain situations (e.g. switching subs)
* Overlay is now not activated by default, anymore
Seems that AMD does not support Windows 7 Hardware Overlay. That's really a pity!

[leeperry]

XP Users will notice the same thing - had to roll back
What do you mean :confused:

madVR v0.83.1 released
:thanks: for the new build and the new features!

Anti-ringing is not yet supported for downscaling.
Looking forward to it then :)

Have you updated to the latest NVidia WHQL drivers? My 9400M works very well it with the new path.

Have you tried the new Overlay windowed mode option? It should behave quite similar to the old exclusive mode path.
Can you please leave it there? nVidia are constantly changing their drivers behavior and the 296.10 work perfectly on XP for me, and these days I really go by the "don't fix if it ain't broken" saying.....spending +1H uninstalling the 296.10 properly(2 reboots), installing the new ones, recreate all my custom resolution, reset Reclock, find out that it might not work as well as it did before, roll back, yada yada.....I've got no problem waiting a bit for things to work out as it all works perfectly atm :D

If nvidia change their code behavior again, I can always use the good ole proven-to-work old rendering path :)

And it might also be useful for Intel/AMD users on XP or Vista, so considering how flawlessly this code works, please be so kind as to leave it there.....it's not like it's harming anyone :p

Overlay Is W7+ only and the only reason I will consider upgrading to W7SP2 when it's out is to benefit from a twice lower windows timer resolution(0.9766>0.5ms), all the rest works perfectly for me on XP so I don't plan on fixing anything that works at this point ^^

[Reith]

So is hardware overlay not activated at all if I have an AMD card? I tried turning it on in 0.83.1 and nothing bad happens, but I'm not sure if that's because it actually works or if it just isn't activated since it detects AMD.

[madshi]

Can you please leave it there?
Oh well, I guess I can, for now...

So is hardware overlay not activated at all if I have an AMD card? I tried turning it on in 0.83.1 and nothing bad happens, but I'm not sure if that's because it actually works or if it just isn't activated since it detects AMD.
If you turn it on and your AMD card can't do it you should see an error message for a few seconds. Maybe your AMD can do it, after all? I don't really know. If you upload a debug log I can tell you for sure.

[Reith]

How do I get a debug log? I downloaded the .pdb thing from xhmikosr's page but I have no idea what to do with it.

[madshi]

The MPC-HC debug stuff is only needed if you have a freeze when closing MPC-HC/madVR. You only want to know whether Overlay is working, correct? In that case you don't need the MPC-HC debug version. Instead just double click the file "activate debug mode.bat" in the madVR folder. Then load a video in windowed mode for 2-3 seconds. After that you'll find a file "madVR - log.txt" on your desktop. Zip it up and upload it somewhere. Also don't forget to double click "activate release mode.bat" to switch back to the release mode madVR.

Which OS are you using, btw?

[strumf666]

Debug mode works correctly for Potplayer?

[madshi]

Not sure what you mean. madVR debug mode works with every player. However, if you get a freeze, I'm not sure if PotPlayer itself has debug info built in to help finding the cause of the freeze.

[Xaurus]

mad, did you forget to rename the updated version to 0.83.1 or is it just my installation pulling my leg? It still says 0.83

[Mercury_22]

No error with "windowed overlay" here too :)
Log file (http://www13.zippyshare.com/v/40878594/file.html)

[strumf666]

Not sure what you mean. madVR debug mode works with every player. However, if you get a freeze, I'm not sure if PotPlayer itself has debug info built in to help finding the cause of the freeze.
I was curious in case I get a crash, but also I have ati hd7750 card and I wanted to test the overlay mode.

[madshi]

mad, did you forget to rename the updated version to 0.83.1 or is it just my installation pulling my leg? It still says 0.83
Ooops. Reuploaded with correct version number.

[madshi]

No error with "windowed overlay" here too :)
Not sure why the error doesn't show for you (it does on my PC), but the log says it:

00000921 Render Overlay supported: -
00000921 Render This GPU/driver does not support Overlay mode.

I was curious in case I get a crash, but also I have ati hd7750 card and I wanted to test the overlay mode.
If you have a crash, the madVR crash report should work just fine. But if you have a freeze, the situation may be different. Anyway, it seems AMD drivers simply don't support Overlay at all. Which I don't understand because supporting Overlay seems to be a WHQL requirement. Very confusing...

[Andy o]

In the AVS 5000 series thread there was a bug discovered in the RGB-YCbCr conversion, when output was set to YCbCr, where there was a greenish tint in the blacks. When using protected video path players and content (basically just bluray and TMT/PDVD), this bug was bypassed, and it was suspected the players were using overlay because of this. I'll test this with my 4670, but I don't have my 5770 anymore.

[strumf666]

Running hd7750, Cat 12.8 on win7 x64 and Potplayer:

00001634 Render Overlay supported: -

[Reith]

Oh well, I guess I can, for now...


If you turn it on and your AMD card can't do it you should see an error message for a few seconds. Maybe your AMD can do it, after all? I don't really know. If you upload a debug log I can tell you for sure.
Ok, here's the debug log.

http://www.mediafire.com/?iscybspcb443pan

My OS is Windows 7 Pro x64. My GPU is a Radeon HD 6970. I did a ctrl F in the log for overlay and saw stuff like this, so I'm not sure what to think:

00000123 Render This GPU/driver does not support Overlay mode.

[jmone]

JR Media Centre: Did a quick test and looks good with "Enable Windows Overlay" with no issues on OSD, Subs etc + it has the benefits of the stability of Exclusive Mode with the Windows Mode smoothness when bringing up menus etc. Tested on:
- nVidia 550Ti = No Issues / video nice and stable
- Intel i7-2600K with IGP3000 = Still have to use Mitchell-Netravali as anything with Taps is too much for this GPU, but appart from that it is nice and stable. If you try to switch to "Enable Windowed Overlay" when playing a vide you get a red madVR error saying the GPU could not be restarted (I can get the exact msg if needed).

Looks good!

[madshi]

00000123 Render This GPU/driver does not support Overlay mode.
Running hd7750, Cat 12.8 on win7 x64 and Potplayer:

00001634 Render Overlay supported: -
Yeah, same results for all AMD users: Overlay not supported by the AMD driver, unfortunately!

NVidia and Intel seem to support it just fine.

If you try to switch to "Enable Windowed Overlay" when playing a vide you get a red madVR error saying the GPU could not be restarted (I can get the exact msg if needed).
Can you create a madVR debug log for that? FWIW, it works here, but tested with MPC-HC. Anyway, no big deal, I guess, since there's no real need to change these settings in the middle of playing a video... :p

[jmone]

Can you create a madVR debug log for that? FWIW, it works here, but tested with MPC-HC. Anyway, no big deal, I guess, since there's no real need to change these settings in the middle of playing a video... :p

Correct no big deal as you would just change it once. Tried swapping between Exclusive and the new mode and this time I did not see the error msg but the Video would just freese though the movie (inc sound) would still place. Here is the log file. - https://dl.dropbox.com/u/59011278/madVR%20-%20log.zip

[Boltron]

Ok so I just don't get it. Madshi has created the ultimate renderer with a variety of scaling algorithms and even anti-ringing filters. So many people on this thread debate the best settings for these.

Why is it when I try playing around with these settings, I don't see a difference? Am I that much of a loser :( I can see GPU usage change but that's about it. I try switching between Mitchell-Netravali to Lanczos 4 with AR filter for chroma and luma upscaling for example.

I am testing on a 1920x1200 24" IPS monitor. My movies are all Bluray rips to mkvs at full resolution and no compression. I have been testing a few movies including Avatar and Pulp Fiction. I haven't tried any tests on my htpc and 55" TV.

Can anyone enlighten me :(

[Keiyakusha]

Boltron
If you watch blurays (or full reslolution rips) on this screen, obviously no scaling occurs. Except for chroma but this is not something average user can see. In fact many features are just toys for perfectionists and not easily seen if you just watch stuff and not comparing screencaps under 800% magnification. And the real difference between some algorithms is really pretty low even under close artificial comparison.

[Gary.M]

JR Media Centre: Did a quick test and looks good with...

What's required with jrmc? Just drop the updated madvr on top of the jrmc installed one?

Sent using Tapatalk

[Pat357]

Just installed 0.83.1.... missed 0.83..;)
First impressions :

- New windowed-Overlay mode works nice : no tearing anymore in windowed mode !!
- No problems on closing player yet discovered.

I'm going to make some more tests..

NV gtx-570 / i7-970 Hexa-core @3.9Ghz / Win7 / all latest drivers

[Pat357]

Oh, sorry for not seeing that, I didn't realize I had PureVideo deinterlacing enabled when I viewed it. :)

Still, my answer was correct for the field mode selection.

BTW, DGDecNV 2043rc1 now supports DXVA-quality deinterlacing.
Hmm.. sounds very nice !
Any binaries available for testing it ?
Thx.

[ryrynz]

Overly mode is not affecting IQ here on my Intel HD3000, have switched to using it. GPU utilization is down 5% when enabled.
Is it possible to have the filename displayed on the left hand side of the seekbar in exclusive mode? Or perhaps done in the same fashion as in MPC-BE (filename within the seekbar)

[27049215]

One small suggestion:
List all hotkeys in a separate text file, it is hard to find a specific one in the loooooong changelog

Thanks in advance

[gvanbrunt]

I also tested overlay on JRiver Media Center with Nvidia card. It works great. I have to use exclusive as windowed caused occasional glitches. Works as good as exclusive so far, but I haven't tested very long.

If this works smoothly for most people I would say it should be default. That way noobs etc get best experience by default.

[jmone]

What's required with jrmc? Just drop the updated madvr on top of the jrmc installed one?

Sent using Tapatalk

Yup, drop it over the top of the instance in C:\Users\{USERNAME}\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 18\Plugins\madvr (or wait till JR rolls out the new version)

[oddball]

I have an issue I don't know whether is in the splitter, the decoder, the renderer or even the player. Using latest offical build of MPC-HC and LAV filters for splitting and decoding. I mentioned it in the MPC thread but want to ask here too just in case it's something related to MadVR. When I try to play 29.970p material using auto switching in either MPC or MadVR it outputs as 23.976Hz instead of 59.940Hz and I get tons of dropped frames (actually looks smooth on one video but jerky on another). Any ideas?

[ryrynz]

Overlay's screen maximizing/minimizing isn't particularly elegant (black/green screen for a couple of seconds) can that be improved? Same deal with resizing (although I don't expect many users to be doing this)
Upon playback and player close I get a black screen for a second. HD3000 (W7 2849 drivers) and the player does need to be restarted once it's enabled (video changes to a black screen)

As it currently stands I wouldn't enable it by default.

[oddball]

Actually I think I am being dense. Isn't 29.970 IVTC'd to 23.976 on-the-fly? I am getting frame drops like crazy though and it's jerking all over the shop.

EDIT: Nevermind. I think I figured it out. When doing IVTC does MadVR show the discarded frames as frame drops? The jerky video playback appears to be an issue with this encode switching between pure 23.976 and 29.97.

[Keiyakusha]

Overlay's screen maximizing/minimizing isn't particularly elegant (black/green screen for a couple of seconds) can that be improved?

I also have green screen. Also transparent parts of the window are opaque and greenish.

[SamKook]

I haven't looked into it in details, but I have a macro key that resize the player(brings up the menu using alt+space and a bunch of arrows and enters afterwards with 10ms delays between each keys) to remove black bars for 720p video and move the player on the right so I can see stuff in the background on the left, but with overlay enabled, it seems that the player takes too long to react to the change and it doesn't get resized but kind of tries while staying the same size(the player does get moved to the right like it should though).

I mostly use the FSE mode and only switch out of it to check on whats in the background for a few seconds so I disabled overlay, but in it's current state, it's not ideal. Kind of like using directx11 which took too long to initialize and made my tv think it lost the signal for a second. If there is a way to speed up its response time it would be much better.

[cyberbeing]

For the next version, you should add a note to the settings dialog that Overlay mode will disable any calibrated GPU Gamma Ramps. It may also be a good idea to move Windowed Overlay into either the 'Calibration' section, considering GPU Gamma Ramps need to be taken into account when creating a 3DLUT, or the 'Trade Quality for Performance' section.

[Andy o]

Actually I think I am being dense. Isn't 29.970 IVTC'd to 23.976 on-the-fly? I am getting frame drops like crazy though and it's jerking all over the shop.

EDIT: Nevermind. I think I figured it out. When doing IVTC does MadVR show the discarded frames as frame drops? The jerky video playback appears to be an issue with this encode switching between pure 23.976 and 29.97.

Are you forcing IVTC? That's only for interlaced content. If you have a progressive 29.97 source which was reencoded from original 24p encoded in 59i, like many anime titles, you don't need to IVTC. You'll have to just do decimation, which I don't know if madVR is designed to do right now. I use avisynth, I think it's tdecimate or some such, I set it up in ffdshow.

[madshi]

Tried swapping between Exclusive and the new mode and this time I did not see the error msg but the Video would just freese though the movie (inc sound) would still place. Here is the log file. - https://dl.dropbox.com/u/59011278/madVR%20-%20log.zip
Hmmmm... Everything looks alright in that log. I think madVR just failed to update the color key in this specific situation. That shouldn't be too hard to fix.

Why is it when I try playing around with these settings, I don't see a difference?
The scaling algorithms can only show a difference if you actually put them to use. When watching Blu-Rays on a 1080p display there is no scaling performed at all (except for Chroma upsampling). Try upscaling a very good (sharp & detailed) DVD to 1080p, then you might see bigger differences between the various scaling algorithms. If the source is soft, the scaling algorithms won't show much of a difference. And if you scale only by a very small amount, you might not be able to see much of a difference, either. Generally, the differences between the various algorithms are not like night and day, except maybe for Nearest Neighbor upscaling which looks very different for big upscaling factors.

First impressions :

- New windowed-Overlay mode works nice : no tearing anymore in windowed mode !!
- No problems on closing player yet discovered.
Overly mode is not affecting IQ here on my Intel HD3000, have switched to using it. GPU utilization is down 5% when enabled.
I also tested overlay on JRiver Media Center with Nvidia card. It works great. I have to use exclusive as windowed caused occasional glitches. Works as good as exclusive so far, but I haven't tested very long.
Glad to hear it works well for some of you guys, thanks for the feedback! It's working quite well with my NVidia 9400, too.

Is it possible to have the filename displayed on the left hand side of the seekbar in exclusive mode? Or perhaps done in the same fashion as in MPC-BE (filename within the seekbar)
Possible? Yes. The problem is that if I start adding one thing after the next to the seekbar, it will be flooded with information pretty well. You're asking for the filename, the next user might ask for some other information to be added, e.g. the video decoder or the video codec. I think some day in the future I'll have to make a list of what should be shown and then find a new seekbar/UI design for exclusive mode which shows all the needed information. For now I'd like to keep things as simple as possible. I think the position/runtime information I added now was the most important missing thing. Everything else (like filename, decoder, codec etc) are nice extras which aren't really crucial. As such I'd like to delay adding them until I do a complete redesign of the exclusive mode UI.

One small suggestion:
List all hotkeys in a separate text file, it is hard to find a specific one in the loooooong changelog
Adding customizeable hotkeys is on the top of my to do list. That will nicely replace such a text file.

When I try to play 29.970p material using auto switching in either MPC or MadVR it outputs as 23.976Hz instead of 59.940Hz and I get tons of dropped frames (actually looks smooth on one video but jerky on another). Any ideas?
The only way to play 29.970p/59.940i material in 23.976Hz is by using proper IVTC. That's only possible for pure movie content, of course. Depending on how the content was encoded, you may have to force madVR to turn on deinterlacing, furthermore you'll have to force madVR into film mode. Then it should work, if the content is really telecined movie content. If it's not clean telecined movie content, then displaying it as 23.976Hz won't work. In that case you should go 59.940Hz.

Overlay's screen maximizing/minimizing isn't particularly elegant (black/green screen for a couple of seconds) can that be improved? Same deal with resizing (although I don't expect many users to be doing this)
Upon playback and player close I get a black screen for a second. HD3000 (W7 2849 drivers) and the player does need to be restarted once it's enabled (video changes to a black screen)
I should be able to fix the player restarting problem, maybe the black screen (not sure). I kinda doubt I can do much about the maximizing/minimizing/resizing. But I'll try...

I haven't looked into it in details, but I have a macro key that resize the player(brings up the menu using alt+space and a bunch of arrows and enters afterwards with 10ms delays between each keys) to remove black bars for 720p video and move the player on the right so I can see stuff in the background on the left, but with overlay enabled, it seems that the player takes too long to react to the change and it doesn't get resized but kind of tries while staying the same size(the player does get moved to the right like it should though).
It stays that way forever? Or does it just take a long time (how long?) to resize properly?

For the next version, you should add a note to the settings dialog that Overlay mode will disable any calibrated GPU Gamma Ramps. It may also be a good idea to move Windowed Overlay into either the 'Calibration' section, considering GPU Gamma Ramps need to be taken into account when creating a 3DLUT, or the 'Trade Quality for Performance' section.
Nobody will look for this option in the calibration section, so moving it there would be really confusing for most users. Hmmmm... Overlay disables GPU gamma ramps? I didn't know that! That might be a good sign, though: It could indicate that the GPU lets overlay content passthrough untouched.

[cyberbeing]

Overlay mode has its own unique color and gamma controls (though these have no effect on madVR, so I assume driver defaults are used?) which are completely separate and ignore the global Gamma Ramps and Color Controls, at least that's how it's always been with NVIDIA.

[madshi]

madVR doesn't use the same Overlay mode that was always available (e.g. in XP etc). madVR uses the rather new "D3D9 Hardware Overlay" functionality introduced in Windows 7. This functionality was not available on Vista or any other older OS. I suppose those color and gamma controls might only apply to the "old" Overlay stuff but not to the new one used by madVR? I'm only guessing right now, though, I don't really know.

[cyberbeing]

So then I guess the question is, if "D3D9 Hardware Overlay" doesn't internally use the "Old Hardware Overlay" on NVIDIA, can madVR do something which wasn't possible with "Old Hardware Overlay" and apply the global calibrated gamma ramps to the overlay surface?

[madshi]

Applying GPU gamma ramps shouldn't be that hard, I guess. The other question is if all GPU manufacturers implement the new Hardware Overlay the same way? If I manually add gamma ramps via pixel shaders, maybe with e.g. Intel we'll get double gamma ramps? Can anybody with an Intel GPU on win7 test whether GPU gamma ramps affect madVR's Overlay mode?

[Nicola]

Some more questions abouth GPUs and madvr...
Resume: playing 1080p (gpu 50%) content on fullhd monitor is fine with default madvr setting, 720 is not (gpu 100%). New GPU needed.
I upgraded the budget, and now I have some doubts.
GeForce GT640, GeForce GTS 450, GeForceGTX550 Ti. Those 3 are the new candidates, since madshi said the 610 was a bit on the low side.
Let aside price and power usage considerations, I see some have 1GB, some 2GB, but one has double number of shaders, while some shows more BW... I am in despair, what does actually matters for madvr?
Can someone help me, please? Thanks.

[cyberbeing]

Freeze when reloading video (CTRL+E) in Fullscreen Exclusive mode while video is playing:

madVR debug log and freeze report with MPC-HC pdb (http://www.mediafire.com/?iu9lpazavisx8od)

[l0rdraiden]

Taking into account the new anti-ringing option what the the recommended upscaling filters for HD content?

What is this exactly?
* added "enable windowed overlay (Windows 7 and newer)" option

[ryrynz]

Possible? Yes. The problem is that if I start adding one thing after the next to the seekbar, it will be flooded with information pretty well. You're asking for the filename, the next user might ask for some other information to be added, e.g. the video decoder or the video codec. I think some day in the future I'll have to make a list of what should be shown and then find a new seekbar/UI design for exclusive mode which shows all the needed information.


Could you just add the filename and call it quits from that point until the resdesign? I'd really appreciate it. It wouldn't clutter the seekbar up (text on either side at the top would look fine)
That along with a keyboard shortcut to show the seekbar and I'd be happy.. at least until I can get the devs of MPC to add in all the other stuff (codec info etc) for display without having to
minimize the screen and leave exclusive mode, which will avoid you having to add the other stuff in, thanks.

Taking into account the new anti-ringing option what the the recommended upscaling filters for HD content?


Lanczos 3 with AR seems to be the favorite for luma upscaling, but it all depends on your content, current sharpness levels, contrast etc. Your best deciding this for yourself.


What is this exactly?
* added "enable windowed overlay (Windows 7 and newer)" option

A different method of presentation with less chance of tearing and better performance (It's all there in Madshi's post) enable it and see how it goes.

[madshi]

Some more questions abouth GPUs and madvr...
Resume: playing 1080p (gpu 50%) content on fullhd monitor is fine with default madvr setting, 720 is not (gpu 100%). New GPU needed.
I upgraded the budget, and now I have some doubts.
GeForce GT640, GeForce GTS 450, GeForceGTX550 Ti. Those 3 are the new candidates, since madshi said the 610 was a bit on the low side.
Let aside price and power usage considerations, I see some have 1GB, some 2GB, but one has double number of shaders, while some shows more BW... I am in despair, what does actually matters for madvr?
Can someone help me, please? Thanks.
(prices from froogle)

640: 88$, slow, much too expensive for the speed, not recommended
450: 66$, reasonably good performance, best bang for the buck
550: 101$, faster than 450, but also more expensive
650: 110$, slightly faster than 550, very power efficient

Looking at those prices, if you want to save money, I'd get the 450. If you want more speed, the 550 and 650 both look priced ok. If power consumption is important to you, I'd get the 650.

1GB should be enough, unless you want to upscale to 4K, then maybe 2GB would be worth it. But I guess 4K is too far away for now, so I think 1GB should be good enough.

[andybkma]

What I have noticed while using the new ""enable windowed overlay (Windows 7 and newer)" option is that it takes the player noticeably longer to actually stop playing a vid when the media player stop button is pressed. Guess that is a by product of the new option? When I disable that new feature, the vids stop playing faster than with that option disabled but still slower than before in earlier versions than v83

[madshi]

Freeze when reloading video (CTRL+E) in Fullscreen Exclusive mode while video is playing:

madVR debug log and freeze report with MPC-HC pdb (http://www.mediafire.com/?iu9lpazavisx8od)
Thank you, that's very helpful. MPC-HC does this in its main thread:

CAMEvent e;
m_pGraphThread->PostThreadMessage(CGraphThread::TM_CLOSE, 0, (LPARAM)&e);
e.Wait(); // either opening or closing has to be blocked to prevent reentering them, closing is the better choice
So basically the main thread waits for the graph thread to close down, without handling messages. In exclusive mode the MPC-HC main window is the Direct3D device window. So when closing down Direct3D in exclusive mode, Direct3D probably tries to contact the MPC-HC main window, but that doesn't react because the main thread isn't handling messages. I believe this is a "bug" in MPC-HC. The main thread should handle messages at all times. Not handling messages while closing down the graph thread is an open invitation to get freezes, IMHO.

Any MPC-HC dev reading this? Is there any chance to have the MPC-HC behaviour modified? MPC-HC really does have to handle messages while waiting for the graph thread to close down!

Edit: I'll take this to the MPC-HC thread.

Could you just add the filename and call it quits from that point until the resdesign?
But adding the filename is just *your* wish! Do the other madVR users share the same wish? Maybe some of them would rather have the video decoder or codec displayed instead of the file name? If all madVR users agree that the file name is the most important thing to show now, then I could add it, but I doubt there will be agreement. I think some users will want information A while others want information B.

What I have noticed while using the new ""enable windowed overlay (Windows 7 and newer)" option is that it takes the player noticeably longer to actually stop playing a vid when the media player stop button is pressed. Guess that is a by product of the new option? When I disable that new feature, the vids stop playing pretty much instantaneously
In which way does the stopping take longer? Can you describe it in more detail, please? Thanks.