madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Hprd]

Originally Posted by Fullmetal Encoder
madshi, is there any chance you could implement your optimized algorithm to provide Lanczos scaling without ringing into madVR? You could call the option madLanczos

As discussed here I believe the consensus was that nnedi3 was superior but your algorithm is obviously far superior to regular Lanczos.

Thank you for all your great works.

Yeah i recall somebody bringing this up a long time ago, but wonder if maybe it uses too much gpu power or something? Obviously would be pretty nice to include (if that isn't one of your plans already?).

[ryrynz]

Would have to assume it is, just a case of when he gets the time and motivation to implement it which I would guess would be before 1.0 hits.

[Xaurus]

madshi hasn't posted on Doom9 since 6th of September (~2 weeks ago):
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1524275#post1524275

I hope everything is OK? :O

[nevcairiel]

He did say that he will take a break from madVR development for a while to attend some other work.

[WontonNoodle]

also, is there a way to get screenshots working with madvr?

[ryrynz]

That's already been discussed in this thread please use the search.
If your taking snaps in exclusive mode there are two popular options FRAPS but MSI Afterburner.
It's either that or switch to windowed mode and use the Print Screen key.

[mzso]

Hi!
So I bought a more modern graphics card and I was thinking of disabling exclusive mode. Are there any drawbacks? So far I only noticed that the presentation glitches line is missing. So is it missing because there's no way to monitor it in windowed mode or it can't happen?

[nevcairiel]

Its not possible to monitor it in windowed mode.

If playback is smooth for you, Windowed mode is also fine.
However, why do you prefer windowed mode, anyway?

[mzso]

I believe the consensus was that nnedi3 was superior but your algorithm is obviously far superior to regular Lanczos.

By the way what does nnedi3 mean. By searching around I only found a deinterlacer for avisynth as nnedi3, but I fail to see how that could be applied to scaling.

[nand chan]

Its not possible to monitor it in windowed mode.

If playback is smooth for you, Windowed mode is also fine.
However, why do you prefer windowed mode, anyway?

Better seek bar, it's the only reason I use windowed mode.

[nevcairiel]

People are way too focused on seeking. Watch the movie already, stop seeking around in it. :)

[mzso]

Its not possible to monitor it in windowed mode.

If playback is smooth for you, Windowed mode is also fine.
However, why do you prefer windowed mode, anyway?

Because of the blinking. I tend to open pop-up menus frequently (changing subtitles, audi streams, checking filters, ...) , in which case madvr switches back to windowed mode.

Better seek bar, it's the only reason I use windowed mode.
In overlay mode with potplayer I can actually can have the same gui as normally, while staying in exclusive mode.

[Xaurus]

People are way too focused on seeking. Watch the movie already, stop seeking around in it. :)
I couldn't agree more. :D

[dansrfe]

People are way too focused on seeking. Watch the movie already, stop seeking around in it. :)

Totally agree...

[nand chan]

People are way too focused on seeking. Watch the movie already, stop seeking around in it. :)

What I don't quite understand is why I would want exclusive mode. Does it offer me any advantages?

All it does it disadvantages: 1. Slower fullscreen switch time, 2. ugly status notification at the top left, 3. ugly seek bar, 4. unable to take screenshots easily.

Because of the blinking. I tend to open pop-up menus frequently (changing subtitles, audi streams, checking filters, ...) , in which case madvr switches back to windowed mode.

This is also extremely annoying.

In overlay mode with potplayer I can actually can have the same gui as normally, while staying in exclusive mode.

I use MPC-HC though so that isn't an option for me.

[Xaurus]

What I don't quite understand is why I would want exclusive mode. Does it offer me any advantages?

4. unable to take screenshots easily.

Why do I read that so many people have problems with this.
I can do this without problems with print-scr...

screenshot in fullscreen mode (http://home.halden.net/mordor/game_of_thrones.png)

[mzso]

Why do I read that so many people have problems with this.
I can do this without problems with print-scr...

screenshot in fullscreen mode (http://home.halden.net/mordor/game_of_thrones.png)

Apparently you're the only one.

[kalston]

What I don't quite understand is why I would want exclusive mode. Does it offer me any advantages?

All it does it disadvantages: 1. Slower fullscreen switch time, 2. ugly status notification at the top left, 3. ugly seek bar, 4. unable to take screenshots easily.



This is also extremely annoying.



I use MPC-HC though so that isn't an option for me.

You can remove the delay when switching from one mode to the other.

I actually like the barely visible, sleek seek bar (I rarely use it anyway).

Dunno about the screenshots I've never tried and some people say it works.

The main advantage is better performance (in my case it reduces the rendering times slightly and the presentation times GREATLY). Not saying I see a difference but it can't hurt, can it? Also being sure that nothing will get in the way of playback (although windowed with "always visible" toggled should work just fine) is a plus.

[nand chan]

You can remove the delay when switching from one mode to the other.

I'm not talking about the 3 second delay, I'm talking about the noticeable flicker/reset as the actual switch happens.

I actually like the barely visible, sleek seek bar (I rarely use it anyway).

I think it looks worse than Apple interfaces, and that's quite a harsh judgment for me to give out.

Dunno about the screenshots I've never tried and some people say it works.

Judging by the shot above it says (old path) so I'm guessing it's some obscure setting or old version. In the regular fullscreen exclusive mode, it doesn't work for me.

The main advantage is better performance (in my case it reduces the rendering times slightly and the presentation times GREATLY). Not saying I see a difference but it can't hurt, can it? Also being sure that nothing will get in the way of playback (although windowed with "always visible" toggled should work just fine) is a plus.

If I remember correctly it actually /decreased/ performance on my machine, but I'm not too sure about that.

[mzso]

I've be testing my new card with madvr and LAV CUVID. My CPU usage was higher than I expected. (based on what I remember with my old card and dxva) So I looked at the threads with process explorer. Got something like this.
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9386/potpthreads.png
I didn't expect madvr to generate significant cpu usage, since it works with shaders and all. Is this normal?
(I also didn't think splitting with LAV would count for 13% cpu usage either)

[nevcairiel]

I didn't expect madvr to generate significant cpu usage, since it works with shaders and all. Is this normal?
madVR will use more CPU usage then other renderers, because it does more stuff.
Also, since you compared to DXVA, of course it'll use more CPU then before.


(I also didn't think splitting with LAV would count for 13% cpu usage either)

The Splitter creates one thread for every stream (audio, video, subtitle), and the decoders usually just decode on that thread, causing the info you see. Its only because LAV Splitter created the thread that its being blamed for them, but the highest CPU thread is probably video, and the second the audio decoder.

[nand chan]

The Splitter creates one thread for every stream (audio, video, subtitle), and the decoders usually just decode on that thread, causing the info you see. Its only because LAV Splitter created the thread that its being blamed for them, but the highest CPU thread is probably video, and the second the audio decoder.

Does it still have such a high CPU usage when using CUVID?

[mzso]

madVR will use more CPU usage then other renderers, because it does more stuff.
Also, since you compared to DXVA, of course it'll use more CPU then before.

Ok, so what does it do on the cpu? Or is it wrong for me to think that all the stuff it does on the GPU doesn't require some sort of CPU support?


The Splitter creates one thread for every stream (audio, video, subtitle), and the decoders usually just decode on that thread, causing the info you see. Its only because LAV Splitter created the thread that its being blamed for them, but the highest CPU thread is probably video, and the second the audio decoder.

Ah ok. Thanks for the explanation. So I guess this might be the same thing that decoding on the GPU (with cuvid) requires some cpu usage too.


Anyway its not like I have a problem, I'm just curious.

[Xaurus]

Judging by the shot above it says (old path) so I'm guessing it's some obscure setting or old version. In the regular fullscreen exclusive mode, it doesn't work for me.
Neither. Version 0.74.

properties:
PC levels (0-255)
8 bit (or higher)

calibration:
disable calibration controls for this display

display modes
blank line & everything below unchecked.

color & gamma
everything disabled

decoding
everything disabled

scaling:
Softcubic 60, Spline 4, Spline 4.

general settings:
No - use managed upload textures (XP only)
Yes - delay playback start until render queue is full
Yes - enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode
No - disable desktop composition (Vista and newer)
No - use a seperate device for presentation (Vista / Windows 7 only)

exclusive mode settings:
Yes - show seek bar
Yes - delay switch to exclusive mode by 3 seconds
No - present several frames in advance
8 - how many backbuffers shall be used
flush
flush & wait (sleep)
don't flush
don't flush

trade quality for performance:
everything disabled

[nevcairiel]

No - present several frames in advance

^ that setting causes it to use the "old" exclusive mode

Does it still have such a high CPU usage when using CUVID?

7% is high?
From all i know, that could as well be the audio decoder decoding some complicated HD audio, putting the video at 4%.

Without knowing anything about the system, judging how much 4 or 7% actually is, is really not possible either.

[nand chan]

7% is high?
From all i know, that could as well be the audio decoder decoding some complicated HD audio, putting the video at 4%.

Without knowing anything about the system, judging how much 4 or 7% actually is, is really not possible either.

Well, I figured the 7% is what you'd get from software decoding. I get around 15% on average 1080p material (8-bit) but my system is quite dated.

[mzso]

Well, I figured the 7% is what you'd get from software decoding. I get around 15% on average 1080p material (8-bit) but my system is quite dated.

How dated? My CPU is an e6750.

[nand chan]

How dated? My CPU is an e6750.

Mine's a Q9550 @ 4.0 GHz :scared:

[Xaurus]

No - present several frames in advance

^ that setting causes it to use the "old" exclusive mode

You're right nev, the screenshot with that setting to "Yes" is only black.

I would try to check out the differences between "old" and "new" since I don't know the difference. At first glance I see presentation glitches now and then, about one each five seconds or so.

[6233638]

What I don't quite understand is why I would want exclusive mode. Does it offer me any advantages?

All it does it disadvantages: 1. Slower fullscreen switch time, 2. ugly status notification at the top left, 3. ugly seek bar, 4. unable to take screenshots easily.
It brings a pretty significant performance boost, and I believe it also improves timing/v-sync control? (should eliminate tearing for people that experience tearing in windowed mode)

[nevcairiel]

As a general rule of course, if windowed mode works fine for you, then don't worry, be happy. :)
Some users need exclusive mode for fluid playback without tearing, if you don't - great! :)

[6233638]

As a general rule of course, if windowed mode works fine for you, then don't worry, be happy. :)
Some users need exclusive mode for fluid playback without tearing, if you don't - great! :)Absolutely, though I hope that once Madshi returns to developing this, we will start to see some advanced scaling algorithms implemented that take advantage of the new FSE mode to operate smoothly.

I was doing some testing upscaling some 1080p content to 4K recently, and none of the available algorithms really did a very good job of it.

For some reason, the scaling issues were far more obvious than with DVD. Perhaps because the source material (good Blu-ray encodes) is that much more detailed to begin with.

Everything, even Lanczos 8 and SoftCubic 100 was very aliased. (but the aliasing had soft edges)


It makes me wonder just how much better even DVDs can get compared to how they are now. (and how they are now, is the best I have ever seen)


I would love to see more advanced multi-frame super-resolution processing eventually, but I suspect that's far beyond the scope of madVR.

[nand chan]

In a related note, how about an emulation mode for the old XP option for a “single display mode” which would treat a multi-monitor setup as one large display?

For example, some users use an IBM T221 screen to display movies, which has a resolution of 3840 × 2400 and is connected using four DVI ports - Windows sees these as four separate 1920x1200 monitors.

In XP, you could set it to work as a single display so running a fullscreen program would fullscreen it over all four “displays”, while Windows 7 lacks this feature - so fullscreen applications will only appear in a single quadrant.

[BeNooL]

I couldn't agree more. :D

ditto :)

[kalston]

As a general rule of course, if windowed mode works fine for you, then don't worry, be happy. :)
Some users need exclusive mode for fluid playback without tearing, if you don't - great! :)

I don't have tearing in any mode but exclusive gives me far better performance. For example on a 60fps file I played today, windowed mode didn't look like 60fps at all while exclusive mode was butter smooth like you'd expect from a 60fps file.

Can't say I notice much of a difference for 1080p24 playback though.

[JustinChase]

I'm upgrading my HTPC to include an nVidia card (GeForce GTX 550 Ti (Fermi) 1GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16), but the motherboard I wish to use has only a PCIe 1.1 x16 slot.

Will this make any difference in madVR (or LAV CUVID)'s ability to fully utilize the new card?

I'm guessing even 1.0 has enough bandwith to render the images fine, as I think the real work is done in the GPU.

But, before I get it all built, I thought I'd ask, since it's easier to change the motherboard before I install it :)

thanks.

[nevcairiel]

The bandwidth should be sufficient.
I have no idea if it works at all, but i guess it does.

[JustinChase]

Thanks. from my reading...

The PCIe 2.0 standard doubles the per-lane throughput from the PCIe 1.0 standard's 250 MB/s to 500 MB/s.

I assume 250 MB/s is plenty for our needs.

It seems the cards/slots are backwards compatible between versions, so I'll hopefully get it built tonight or tomorrow and finally get full hardware de-interlacing :)

[jmone]

I have two PC's with nvidia GPU but I'm seeing radically diffrent Present Times:

- GTS450 (ddr5): Present time is usually between 0.1 to 0.2ms in both Exclusive and Windowed Mode
- GTX550Ti (ddr5): Present time is usually between 0.1 to 0.2ms in Exclusive Mode but blows out to 10 - 30ms (eg 100 times slower) in Windowed Mode so it drops frames.

I've tried updating Drivers, Bios etc on the GTX550Ti but I have No Idea why the very high Present Times in Windowed Mode on this unit - any hints?

Thanks
Nathan

Edit: Even my Laptop with a 320M has OK present times.....

[jmone]

EDIT - Fixed the issue by reapplying the Std Windows 7 Aero Theme (Control Panel --> Personalization). Seems if you have a "Basic" theme then the presentation times go up by x100. With the Aero Theme applied all is fine (no idea how I had a non-aero theme in the first place).

[CruNcher]

Vsync only get applied to non Fullscreen with Aero enabled, and you should be really carefull with any internal vsync stuff then :)

[Portioli]

can anybody tell me which are MAdVR`s input luminance levels?

if i send yuv12 using ffdshow which are the luminance levels that i send to madVR?
does ffdshow leave the yuv12 luminance levels untouched?


p.s. i watch 99% (16-235) bluray movies

[markanini]

Question regarding the 'color & gamma' tab. Assuming my monitor more or less corresponds to sRGB, does 'changing pure power curve' to 'BT.709/601' make output more accurate/like intended?

[mindbomb]

I have two PC's with nvidia GPU but I'm seeing radically diffrent Present Times:

- GTS450 (ddr5): Present time is usually between 0.1 to 0.2ms in both Exclusive and Windowed Mode
- GTX550Ti (ddr5): Present time is usually between 0.1 to 0.2ms in Exclusive Mode but blows out to 10 - 30ms (eg 100 times slower) in Windowed Mode so it drops frames.

I've tried updating Drivers, Bios etc on the GTX550Ti but I have No Idea why the very high Present Times in Windowed Mode on this unit - any hints?

Thanks
Nathan

Edit: Even my Laptop with a 320M has OK present times.....

i have a guess.

When you are using 2 display devices with 2 different refresh rates, things get messy without exclusive mode

[jmonier]

On one of my machines, madVR will not go into exclusive mode. This particular machine has 4 monitors on two different video adapters and I suspect that may be the reason. If so, it's no big deal, but I'm interested in any comments.

[Andy2222]

Hi Madshi,

i noticed a "strange" problem on my new media box, during playback in windowed/fullscreen windowed mode and even during pausing a file the CPU/GPU is still active at around 35%/20%?
I did some tests and even reinstalled windows and found one combination of setting that "fixes" this behavior, resulting in 0% CPU/GPU usage. Also the CPU usage in general is higher in all the "problematic" cases.

Here are my setting on Win7, madVR 0.74, MPC-HC (1.5.3.3734). I also tested other players, with the same result. Also process explorer shows the CPU usage in the "madvr.ax" process.

The first case is the "fixed" version which solves this problem only in this particular setting combination. Note how the "exclusive" mode changes directly also influences the windowed mode playback.

FIXED 1:
general: "enable automatic exclusive fullscreen mode" = ON
exclusive: "present several frames in advance" = OFF

FAIL 1:
general: "enable automatic exclusive fullscreen mode" = ON
exclusive: "present several frames in advance" = ON

FAIL 2:
general: "enable automatic exclusive fullscreen mode" = OFF
exclusive: "present several frames in advance" = ON/OFF

NOTE: All other settings scaling, presentation, thread, number backbuffers ... don't influence the outcome. I did not test all the sync options (flush, wait) and did leave those at default values.

Test-System Spec:
Win7 32bit (all updates + SP1)
Pentium T630 CPU + H67 chipset (Intel HD GPU not used, no driver installed)
nVidia GT 520 GPU (280.26 drivers)

I also tried to duplicate this problem on my main Core2Duo 775 system under WinXP and Win7, but could not do so.

In general all the "fail" settings also result in 30% higher additional cpu usage during playback, compared to the "fixed" case. As a side-note the playback is "smooth" in all tested cases, without any dropped frames. CPU and GPU usage is never above 70% in total.

bye Andy

[Thunderbolt8]

madshi, do you have any plans to add DXVA-HD support in the future?

[Defiler]

This is simply the finest thing ever.
Now that Zoom Player has followed suit and started using MadVR's OSD API to display its own menus, a feature I have been wanting since 2002 has finally come into being.
How can I send you money?

[Defiler]

In a related note, how about an emulation mode for the old XP option for a “single display mode” which would treat a multi-monitor setup as one large display?

That would be extremely handy for the kind of setup that is most prone to tearing in the first place. Good idea.

[pirlouy]

FIXED 1:
general: "enable automatic exclusive fullscreen mode" = ON
exclusive: "present several frames in advance" = OFF
I confirm what Andy2222 said.
If I use "old" path, the processor is less used. I don't remember if this option is important for better quality. :/

So many options. I still hope someone will want to create a guide for madVR options. :D