madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[glc650]

Hi,

I just upgraded from a Gigabyte Radeon HD 7870 to a XFX Radeon RX 580 GTS and now I get dozens of presentation glitches every second when playing any video if the HDMI Scaling slider is set above 0% in the AMD Radeon Settings GUI.

I tried updating the Radeon drivers to 18.12.2 (was on 17.12.1 with the old card). but still get the issue. I've also tried restoring madVR's default settings. And I tried it with the same madVR settings I used with the previous card. I also tried the previous version of madVR.

Never had this issue with the 7870 and I had the HDMI scaling slider set to 3% (which is where I also need it set for the new card).

Thanks,

>g.

[actarusfleed]

Did someone ever compared (only with madvr) a gtx 1070ti vs rtx 2070?

Some YouTube videos are about this but only on the videogame side...

I'm only interested to evaluate this by the madvr point of view...

[tp4tissue]

Did someone ever compared (only with madvr) a gtx 1070ti vs rtx 2070?

Some YouTube videos are about this but only on the videogame side...

I'm only interested to evaluate this by the madvr point of view...


Peeps are just cranking the upscaling to arbitrarily high setting to saturate their cards.

I'm not sure we can call that Performance.. :rolleyes:

at 2 meters from my tv, I can't even see the difference between bilinear chroma and nnedi..

I guess you could make a case for scaling 4K up to 8K tvs..

I have an old 7970, and it can do 4K jinc chroma, shader to SDR in 15ms..

[tp4tissue]

do you have a screen that can do more than DCI P3? well no so you don't have to care the 3D LUT will do the gamut mapping anyway. just use the default setting.


clearly not 10000 so feel free to use the measured peak brightness.
i personally don't think this is a useful measuring anyway on an x900f the peak brightness for 10% is far higher than 2%.

You misunderstood my question huhn..

My question is,

How does changing the Sent meta data from rec2020 to dci-p3 change the image, if at all.

How does changing the peak nit part of the meta data affect the image..

If, there is a change at all, what does the tv DO with that meta data, does it pop into different modes.

[SirSwede]

Peeps are just cranking the upscaling to arbitrarily high setting to saturate their cards.

I'm not sure we can call that Performance.. :rolleyes:

at 2 meters from my tv, I can't even see the difference between bilinear chroma and nnedi..

I guess you could make a case for scaling 4K up to 8K tvs..

I have an old 7970, and it can do 4K jinc chroma, shader to SDR in 15ms..

Still on Bicubic 75 for Chroma here; never changed it. Looks splendid on my TV. Two metres here as well. :p

But, then again, it is madVR - after all. :D

[border.community]

I am mostly playing UHD mkv rips and was wondering which madvr settings actually affect the picture since I am neither upscaling or downscaling.

Seems like only the settings under Devices, Processing and Rendering would make a difference, and Scaling Algorithms would not---but if I were to change NGU Anti-Alias to "High quality" it would obviously affect performance which begs the question: what are Scaling Algorithms doing to files that do not need to be scaled?

[SamuriHL]

Chroma still needs to be scaled. It's not about resolution. Chroma data is stored in 4:2:0 and needs to be scaled to 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 depending on what you're sending to your display. However, whether you can tell the difference between NGU High AA or bicubic75 or not is an individual thing and only you can decide with your eyes if you can see a difference.

[border.community]

Chroma still needs to be scaled.

Ah, thanks. I have a 1050ti and a C8 as well. Chroma upscaling is really the only thing I have turned on. Do you have anything else turned on, such as any of the Processing options?

[SamuriHL]

I've got a 1060 6gb and I've got quite a few things enabled yes. I've had to change some of my settings recently because of new HDR tonemapping options that will be in the upcoming madvr release. It's a little more punishing than it is in the current release build. It's always a trade off of performance vs quality which is why you see so many people shelling out cash for 1080's and 2080's to make sure they have some breathing room. Everyone's configuration in madvr is going to be different based on what content they're viewing and what they're looking for in terms of quality.

[huhn]

How does changing the Sent meta data from rec2020 to dci-p3 change the image, if at all.
if your screen can do bt 2020 natively it would do something if it is close to DCI P3 it should do nothing at all.
How does changing the peak nit part of the meta data affect the image..

If, there is a change at all, what does the tv DO with that meta data, does it pop into different modes.

who knows literally what ever they want. HDR tonemapping doesn'T have a real one way is correct spec.
the difference should be the image dynamic until it hits it max brightness then it does what ever it wants.

as i said before there is no clear answer.
Chroma still needs to be scaled. It's not about resolution. Chroma data is stored in 4:2:0 and needs to be scaled to 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 depending on what you're sending to your display.

and in madVR case it will always be scaled to 4.4:4 and only RGB is send to the GPU driver that's why sending 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 is bad for the applied dithering and chroma quality the driver has to RGB -YCbCr convert which alone creates floatpoint numbers downsacle the chroma which again results in float point numbers. chroma sub sampling is just storing chroma in a lower resolution than luma so it's pretty much resolution.

and as a fun fact 8 bit RGB has more BPP as 10 bit YCbCr 4:2:2.

chroma is for most scenes not important up to a point that bilinear will be enough but as soon as an image get's chroma heavy or even based (red text on black background as an example) it shows significant differences especially on BDs where you are now literal using an good scaler on SD.

[NM20]

O.k. I have read a fair bit and you guys (and gals) seem to know what you are talking about.

I have a 1080ti and sending the image to a JVC projector that is 4k capable.

My questions are:

I am using 'tone map HDR using pixel shaders'. Would ticking 'measure each frame's peak luminance' be the correct thing to do?

Also, where do I check the DXVA scaling/decoding? Is it in LAV filters?

Thanks

[SamuriHL]

Quite true. That's where the compromises come into play if you're on a performance limited card, however. Do you lean more toward the HDR processing (I am right now) or toward chroma upscaling? It really depends on what you've got under the hood and the content you're trying to watch. And that's also where profiles can come into play. Something I've still not delved into myself yet but really should soon. Cause you can crank up chroma upscaling if you're e.g. scaling a blu-ray to UHD resolution and sacrifice chrome upscaling to save performance for HDR tonemapping when watching UHD content. That's just one example, but, you get the idea.

At the moment I'm fighting with my 1060, AVR, and TV to get my picture to not be cut off. I tried activating scaling in the nVidia control panel but it kills HDR as soon as I enable it. So I'm stuck with native res that's now for whatever reason getting cut off on the TV. I really can't win. LOL

[ryrynz]

However, whether you can tell the difference between NGU High AA or bicubic75 or not is an individual thing and only you can decide with your eyes if you can see a difference.

Yeah, there will be scenes where I think I would notice a difference but it's not a question of that, it's that I know from my own investigations that NGU AA is superior to Bicubic 75 and I have the performance to use it, the card is there to be used to why not eek everything I think is worth it out of it? Nothing wrong with Bicubic 75 though, it's one of the better lower end choices, nobody is going to knock you for using that.

It really depends on what you've got under the hood and the content you're trying to watch. And that's also where profiles can come into play.

Very much this, people need to be using profiles, they're so easy to set up.
For full HD content on my 1080 I do a 2x supersample with NGU sharp and downscale with SSIM 2D, it's demanding as hell but because I have no other sharpening on my set or with madVR the resulting picture is very nice.. the edges are sharp and the picture does not look sharpened at all and the whole thing has a very high res sort of pop to it.
For hand drawn animated content I don't do this because the detail isn't there (most anime is actually captured at 720P, so much of it is upscaled anyway) and I've tested what I gain from supersampling this and it's next to nothing.. You got to know where to invest those resources. From the 750ti->960->1060 6GB-> 1080 it's been a balancing act I think I've managed particularly well, not a lot has changed when it comes to non HDR content upscaling/processing.

O.k. I have read a fair bit and you guys (and gals) seem to know what you are talking about.

I am using 'tone map HDR using pixel shaders'. Would ticking 'measure each frame's peak luminance' be the correct thing to do?


It's something you can do for better highlights, there's nothing right or wrong about any of the options. If you can enable it without frame drops then do it.


Also, where do I check the DXVA scaling/decoding? Is it in LAV filters?


Yes, those options are under 'Hardware decoder to use'.
You may wish to select the chroma DXVA options in 'Trade quality for performance' if you want the best performance from your card at the expense of image quality, evaluate for yourself.

[NM20]

Yes, those options are under 'Hardware decoder to use'.
You may wish to select the chroma DXVA options in 'Trade quality for performance' if you want the best performance from your card at the expense of image quality, evaluate for yourself.

What option should I be picking in LAV with a 1080ti to get the best performance and the HDR tone mapping? CUVID? Native? Copy back?

Thanks for the help so far.

[SamuriHL]

Yeah, there will be scenes where I think I would notice a difference but it's not a question of that, it's that I know from my own investigations that NGU AA is superior to Bicubic 75 and I have the performance to use it, the card is there to be used to why not eek everything I think is worth it out of it? Nothing wrong with Bicubic 75 though, it's one of the better lower end choices, nobody is going to knock you for using that.


I only changed to bicubic75 in the latest test build because I'm preferring the tonemapping options right now as they are quite impressive. Eventually I'll tweak everything and settle on a happy medium somewhere. I agree wholeheartedly that NGU AA absolutely rocks and I can definitely see a difference depending on content. I'll get back to it. Then again, I'm looking at some rebuilding of machines this year at some point so I'll have the horsepower to crank everything back up. The 1060 was a compromise when I bought it. I really wanted a 1070 but the stupid crypto nonsense was going on and I couldn't find one local and online prices were ridiculous. Everything is a compromise.


Very much this, people need to be using profiles, they're so easy to set up.
For full HD content on my 1080 I do a 2x supersample with NGU sharp and downscale with SSIM 2D, it's demanding as hell but because I have no other sharpening on my set or with madVR the resulting picture is very nice.. the edges are sharp and the picture does not look sharpened at all and the whole thing has a very high res sort of pop to it.
For hand drawn animated content I don't do this because the detail isn't there (most anime is actually captured at 720P, so much of it is upscaled anyway) and I've tested what I gain from supersampling this and it's next to nothing.. You got to know where to invest those resources. From the 750ti->960->1060 6GB-> 1080 it's been a balancing act I think I've managed particularly well, not a lot has changed when it comes to non HDR content upscaling/processing.


Profiles are absolutely my next time investment. I just haven't gone there yet but it's definitely needed now. When I get back from vacation that's top of the list.

[SamuriHL]

What option should I be picking in LAV with a 1080ti to get the best performance and the HDR tone mapping? CUVID? Native? Copy back?

Thanks for the help so far.

Unless you NEED copy back for whatever reason (black bar detection, deinterlacing, etc), I would personally recommend D3D11. It's what I've been using for a long time now and it works very well.

[ryrynz]

Should really be asked in the LAV forum, but use D3D11 preferably as Samurai said.

[Warner306]

Definitely D3D11 Native with pixel shader tone mapping.

[tp4tissue]

if your screen can do bt 2020 natively it would do something if it is close to DCI P3 it should do nothing at all.




who knows literally what ever they want. HDR tonemapping doesn'T have a real one way is correct spec.
the difference should be the image dynamic until it hits it max brightness then it does what ever it wants.

as i said before there is no clear answer.




So, everything pretty much work as expected now on my 1050ti and 1060. thx alot huhn.

However, my basement ATI 7870xt isn't showing the measure screen nit and the highlight restoration seems to have no effect.. is it not hooking into the old gpu's direct compute ?

[el Filou]

I just upgraded from a Gigabyte Radeon HD 7870 to a XFX Radeon RX 580 GTS and now I get dozens of presentation glitches every second when playing any video if the HDMI Scaling slider is set above 0% in the AMD Radeon Settings GUI.Sounds like an AMD driver bug then. As scaling for TV overscan compensation is one of the very last driver steps before sending out the picture, it may explain the presentation glitches.
Have you tried exclusive mode? Does your TV really not have any mode with no overscan, even an hidden one like in a service menu or something?

[glc650]

Sounds like an AMD driver bug then. As scaling for TV overscan compensation is one of the very last driver steps before sending out the picture, it may explain the presentation glitches.
Have you tried exclusive mode? Does your TV really not have any mode with no overscan, even an hidden one like in a service menu or something?If it was an AMD bug wouldn't this have shown up on my previous AMD based card though?

I tried exclusive mode but it made no difference.

My TV is pretty old (Mitsubishi LaserView, purchased in '08) and doesn't have many options. The video format options it does has are more for people dealing with black borders or 4:3 content. And I only have slight (1 or 2 letters cutoff on the madvr ODR) overscan on all 4 sides. Not really noticeable when I'm watching something but enough to make navigating Windows fun.

[huhn]

SHowever, my basement ATI 7870xt isn't showing the measure screen nit and the highlight restoration seems to have no effect.. is it not hooking into the old gpu's direct compute ?

without knowing your setup i can only guess.

@glc650

look into the AMD driver for something similar to adjust desktop size and position that nvidia has.

this option is creating a smaller moved image not by scaling it down like an underscan but by creating a new resolution so everything stays bit perfect on the PC side which is preferable worth a shoot my fix the presentation issue.
what type of windows version are you running and can you make a screen of your OSD.
forced over scan is sadly a not unusually for older screens.

[glc650]

@glc650

look into the AMD driver for something similar to adjust desktop size and position that nvidia has.

this option is creating a smaller moved image not by scaling it down like an underscan but by creating a new resolution so everything stays bit perfect on the PC side which is preferable worth a shoot my fix the presentation issue.
what type of windows version are you running and can you make a screen of your OSD.
forced over scan is sadly a not unusually for older screens.I'm not sure how to do this. There is a "Custom Resolutions" section in what is left of the Catalyst Control Center settings but I'm not sure what to input. I'm already running at 1920x1080 according to both Windows Display Properties and AMD CCC/Radeon settings.

edit: enabling the option in CCC made it available in Radeon Settings (see pic)
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnsGKXR_EKR0hCYcEtxKSYFM0GeS

[madjock]

I seem to be going backwards some days with the HDR side.

What seems to be the most constant nVidia drivers for toggling HDR ?

It seems it all depends on which way the wind is blowing, I did have no issues, but now it does toggle with no TV indication and I have to re-select the input on my TV for it to actually display ? I have tried various drivers, some work, then stop, I think the hard part is its mostly indications on my TV I am having issues with as it does look to go to HDR as such, as when I reslect the TV input and the HDR Signal comes on the screen, nothing changes apart from the feedback I get from the TV on colour space.

[huhn]

I'm not sure how to do this. There is a "Custom Resolutions" section in what is left of the Catalyst Control Center settings but I'm not sure what to input. I'm already running at 1920x1080 according to both Windows Display Properties and AMD CCC/Radeon settings.

edit: enabling the option in CCC made it available in Radeon Settings (see pic)
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnsGKXR_EKR0hCYcEtxKSYFM0GeS

i don't use AMD cards right now i don't even know if they have something like this it would just be a little bit more disappointing then usual if they don't have this. a custom resolution may work to.

you didn't say what windows version this is but you seem to have 2 displays and this can create a lot of presentation glitches.

[Klaus1189]

I seem to be going backwards some days with the HDR side.

What seems to be the most constant nVidia drivers for toggling HDR ?

It seems it all depends on which way the wind is blowing, I did have no issues, but now it does toggle with no TV indication and I have to re-select the input on my TV for it to actually display ? I have tried various drivers, some work, then stop, I think the hard part is its mostly indications on my TV I am having issues with as it does look to go to HDR as such, as when I reslect the TV input and the HDR Signal comes on the screen, nothing changes apart from the feedback I get from the TV on colour space.

Try 18.11.2 and do a complete uninstall of currently installed driver.
This is the first time an AMD driver makes some trouble, on Nvidia side I had already more than 5 times trouble with driver.

@all: Do you think a dedicated thread for driver versions and its issues of AMD/Intel and Nvidia would be a nice idea?
Then you don't have to look up one specific post of this monster thread.

[Warner306]

If you wanted to maintain a thread on driver versions, go ahead. You would likely get few reports to verify if the reports are true or false for everyone.

[madjock]

If you wanted to maintain a thread on driver versions, go ahead. You would likely get few reports to verify if the reports are true or false for everyone.

Especially when I was asking about nVidia drivers :)

[chros]

I remember that madshi said that 4K HDR pixel shader internally uses 2.2 gamma. Is there any "hard" rule what gamma (2.2/2.4/bt1886/etc) should be used in the actual device? Or is it like with SDR content?

Btw, here's the current state of madVR in this regard: image comparison (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/3040072-madvr-tool-madmeasurehdr-optimizer-measurements-dynamic-clipping-target-nits-5.html#post57388852)

[huhn]

the brightness level of the none compressed parts match at gamma 2.2.

so if you want the correct brightness levels you set this screen is already calibrated to your screens response where unlike SDR madVR will automatic change your "gamma" for HDR sources to 2.2.

as i said before i'm not a friend of this inconsistent behaviour between HDR and SDR.

[tp4tissue]

the brightness level of the none compressed parts match at gamma 2.2.

so if you want the correct brightness levels you set this screen is already calibrated to your screens response where unlike SDR madVR will automatic change your "gamma" for HDR sources to 2.2.

as i said before i'm not a friend of this inconsistent behaviour between HDR and SDR.

What does this mean ?

I have a rec709 3dlut (2.4 gamma)

I turn on pixel shader hdr->sdr

The shader outputs 2.2 gamma, then the rec 709 lut brings it down to 2.4 gamma ?

Or does everything still come out at 2.2 ?

Should I make a rec709 lut for 2.2 gamma ?

[huhn]

in this case it kind of needs a 2.2 3D LUT to make correct brightness levels that match HDR. madVR has to assume it'2 2.2 not sure if newer version can read from the 3D LUT what gamma it uses or if this is present in the 3D LUT at all.

[sat4all]

What does this mean ?

I have a rec709 3dlut (2.4 gamma)

I turn on pixel shader hdr->sdr

The shader outputs 2.2 gamma, then the rec 709 lut brings it down to 2.4 gamma ?

Or does everything still come out at 2.2 ?

Should I make a rec709 lut for 2.2 gamma ?

fhoech (Displaycal):
<<For SDR, madVR doesn't alter relative luminance of the original signal at all (unless you enable gamma processing or choose "this display is calibrated to" with a gamma that is not 2.2), so if a calibration 3D LUT is used that really is the only thing (apart from the display itself) that affects the resulting tone response (and if not using a 3D LUT, the display itself is the only thing affecting relative luminance of the decoded signal).
For HDR to SDR, madVR decodes the signal with SMPTE 2084 (PQ), applies BT.2390 roll-off and re-scaling using the chosen target peak nits, and then re-encodes to gamma 2.2, and then feeds it into any SDR calibration 3D LUT. So, in both cases, a gamma 2.4 SDR calibration 3D LUT makes the result darker compared to a gamma 2.2 SDR calibration 3D LUT. For SDR, this may be the desired effect (e.g. BT.1886 on an OLED results in an effective 2.4 pure power curve), but for HDR PQ, which is based on absolute luminance, this effect is undesirable.>>

So you should make an rec709 lut for 2.2 gamma.

[tp4tissue]

fhoech (Displaycal):
<<For SDR, madVR doesn't alter relative luminance of the original signal at all (unless you enable gamma processing or choose "this display is calibrated to" with a gamma that is not 2.2), so if a calibration 3D LUT is used that really is the only thing (apart from the display itself) that affects the resulting tone response (and if not using a 3D LUT, the display itself is the only thing affecting relative luminance of the decoded signal).
For HDR to SDR, madVR decodes the signal with SMPTE 2084 (PQ), applies BT.2390 roll-off and re-scaling using the chosen target peak nits, and then re-encodes to gamma 2.2, and then feeds it into any SDR calibration 3D LUT. So, in both cases, a gamma 2.4 SDR calibration 3D LUT makes the result darker compared to a gamma 2.2 SDR calibration 3D LUT. For SDR, this may be the desired effect (e.g. BT.1886 on an OLED results in an effective 2.4 pure power curve), but for HDR PQ, which is based on absolute luminance, this effect is undesirable.>>

So you should make an rec709 lut for 2.2 gamma.


You make I understand. I thank you !! :D

[glc650]

i don't use AMD cards right now i don't even know if they have something like this it would just be a little bit more disappointing then usual if they don't have this. a custom resolution may work to.

you didn't say what windows version this is but you seem to have 2 displays and this can create a lot of presentation glitches.The option exists with AMD (see the pic I posted). Most of what I read online seems to be adding custom resolutions for resolutions that aren't there in the first place. I'm already using the default 1920x1080 so I'm just not sure what I would fill out for all the values.

Latest Windows 10 pro. One of the monitors (shows up as #1 under Windows) is actually a display port to hdmi adapter w/HDMI cable going to my AVR (my AVR is too old to use as a switch). The actual monitor being used is of course my TV (via standard HDMI cable).

[mclingo]

The option exists with AMD (see the pic I posted). Most of what I read online seems to be adding custom resolutions for resolutions that aren't there in the first place. I'm already using the default 1920x1080 so I'm just not sure what I would fill out for all the values.

Latest Windows 10 pro. One of the monitors (shows up as #1 under Windows) is actually a display port to hdmi adapter w/HDMI cable going to my AVR (my AVR is too old to use as a switch). The actual monitor being used is of course my TV (via standard HDMI cable).

out of interest why are you using scaling if you are using the default 1080p, dont you just need to use normal scaling to full panel?

Have to admit I dont know much about this, havent had to scale anything for a decade or more and ive never even seen that slider in my settings.

[glc650]

out of interest why are you using scaling if you are using the default 1080p, dont you just need to use normal scaling to full panel?

Have to admit I dont know much about this, havent had to scale anything for a decade or more and ive never even seen that slider in my settings.The image is not displayed perfectly (it's cutoff/offscreen a bit on all 4 sides) on my TV. I was using the HDMI Scaling option in Radeon Settings to make this more livable. Without it, things like mpc-hc's status bar are cutoff to where it is hard to read the time indicator. And the first couple letters of the madvr stats are cutoff and the Windows start button is only half visable. And the X to close windows is partially cutoff. My TV's horiz/vert adjustments (available in PC or game mode) only allow for moving the entire imagine up/down and left/right buth with those controls and HDMI Scaling set to 3% I am able to basically make all the stuff in the examples above fully viewable again with only the outermost parts of the image un-viewable.

[el Filou]

What are your presentation times in madVR stats? Do they increase when the 3% overscan compensation is enabled?
You could try lowering some madVR setting for rendering and see if it improves things? Maybe if the rendering + presentation is too close to frame time it can cause problems when the GPU has to do overscan compensation on top.

I don't know why the issue appeared when you just changed from one Radeon to a newer one, maybe the newer one is using a different way to do overscan compensation.
Is it exactly the same driver? Did you try doing a total driver cleanup with DDU and then reinstalling it?
Edit: did you try a reset to defaults of madVR settings and then reconfiguring it manually?

[huhn]

The option exists with AMD (see the pic I posted). Most of what I read online seems to be adding custom resolutions for resolutions that aren't there in the first place. I'm already using the default 1920x1080 so I'm just not sure what I would fill out for all the values.
that a screen of the custom res that not what i'm talking about. this may work but there is no way to know for me the number you have to type in.
i would use screen shoot technic to figure the numbers out with some simple math. nvidia has an on screen guide to do that where you just have to line up some lines and every console too. AMD should have something like this too but i can'T check.
Latest Windows 10 pro. One of the monitors (shows up as #1 under Windows) is actually a display port to hdmi adapter w/HDMI cable going to my AVR (my AVR is too old to use as a switch). The actual monitor being used is of course my TV (via standard HDMI cable).

so "one of your monitors" soi you have 2 or more?
i still need a screen shoot of the OSD to get a better picture.

[glc650]

that a screen of the custom res that not what i'm talking about. this may work but there is no way to know for me the number you have to type in.
i would use screen shoot technic to figure the numbers out with some simple math. nvidia has an on screen guide to do that where you just have to line up some lines and every console too. AMD should have something like this too but i can'T check.Sorry I don't follow.


so "one of your monitors" soi you have 2 or more?
No. I only have one monitor/tv/display hooked up. But I also have an AVR hooked up (but for audio only).


i still need a screen shoot of the OSD to get a better picture.What OSD? The TVs?

[huhn]

No. I only have one monitor/tv/display hooked up. But I also have an AVR hooked up (but for audio only).
that's a dual screen setup for windows and that can easily produce presentation glitches.
What OSD? The TVs?

control+j the madVR OSD where you saw the presentation gliches.

[zapatista]

can some of you video experten please comment on my Q below. i am going slightly troppo trying to setup mpc-hc madvr for playing 4k video files on my HTPC

setup. intel 4770k i7 (haswell) , 32 gb ram, 1060 3gb, with latest lav and madvr on win 8.1 64 bit
display: 1080 tv with 10/12 bit RGB 4.4.4 60fpsec input setting confirmed as working correctly over hdmi 1.4 input

Q: with some of the earlier advice given in this thread i can now play many of my 4k video files fairly well (will need further tweaking in madvr for quality improvement) eg many 4k AVC and 4k HEVC files at different frame rates, mbsec, and bit depth rates
- cpu load +/- 20%, GPU load 50-60 % with only 50 - 60 % of 3GB vram used usually

but some 4k video files play very poorly (lots of stutters) , and their specs all seem to be 4k AVC 10 bit rec 709 with HDR.
- cpu load goes bezerk to 98%, but GPU activity drops to 10% and only 20% of gpu vram used
- i am aware 4k bluray discs should be using HEVC, but some of the 4k test files i found online seem to be AVC and include official 4k promotion files provided by samsung or sony etc..

do i have a setup error in mpc-hc madvr options that is shifting the workload to the CPU ? how can i divert this to the GPU ?

or am i using some "out of spec" test video files (found online) that are not compliant with the video decoder instruction set of my pascal GPU ?
these nvidia spec sheets would seem to suggest that for 4k AVC video files the limit might be 8 bit ?
https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-video-codec-sdk
https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-decode-gpu-support-matrix
- the confusing part is that the next newer nvidia series (2070 etc) according to those same spec sheets seem to have similar limitation with 4k 10 bit AVC files, and i would have expected newer hardware to gradually increase features

and if my logic so far is correct, does the pascal GPU simply then defaults to letting the CPU try and deal with the video file and this overloads its processing ? (explaining the stuttering video on screen, but madvr is not reporting any dropped frames ?), and are newer intel cpu's able to cope with hardware decoding/playing this file format ?

[huhn]

AVC 10 bit isn't supported by hardware decoder and this will nearly for sure never change.

so looks like your CPU can't handle it. AVC decoding scales pretty well with more core so they a newer high end consumer CPU may play it in realtime.

[nevcairiel]

the confusing part is that the next newer nvidia series (2070 etc) according to those same spec sheets seem to have similar limitation with 4k 10 bit AVC files, and i would have expected newer hardware to gradually increase features

10-bit AVC/H.264 has never been used commercially, and practically no consumer hardware supports it. Additionally, no-one is going to invest into improving AVC support now, because if you want 10-bit, you use newer codecs like HEVC, VP9 or maybe even AV1 already, all of which have (or will have) hardware support.
Honestly if anyone makes 10-bit AVC files with HDR, they are just doing it wrong. Use HEVC, or VP9.

[glc650]

that's a dual screen setup for windows and that can easily produce presentation glitches. Except it didn't with my previous video card. And it doesn't with the new video *IF* HDMI scaling is at 0. And I have to cable my system up this way as I've had too many issues when using my AVR as and HDMI switch.


control+j the madVR OSD where you saw the presentation gliches.Well now I'm getting another result with scaling on lots of dropped frames and high queue times. Before it was lots of glitches with normal queue times.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnsGKXR_EKR0hCfOm_6m0n5aXCFL

[chros]

What does this mean ?
:D I had to read @huhn's answer couple of times as well to understand it :)

I have a rec709 3dlut (2.4 gamma)
...
Should I make a rec709 lut for 2.2 gamma ?
Exactly that's why I asked it, thanks!

What target nits setting do you use with gamma 2.4 3dlut? And what's the actual brightness of your display? (See below why ...)

fhoech (Displaycal): ...

So you should make an rec709 lut for 2.2 gamma.
Thanks for quoting! Perfect answer!

I watched contents with 2.4 gamma 3dlut + hdr2sdr pixelshader on SDR TV in the last 3 months: screen brightness is ~120 nits, I use target nits 120 (!) in madVR. The result is vivid/alive and still nothing too bright with these settings. (The only (obvious) title was (out of those I watched) The Meg with which I had to modify the target nits value.)

After reading your answer and creating a 2.2 gamma 3dlut@120nits for the TV yesterday, I compared couple of frames (although it's not that easy since you have to look at them on the actual display, after changing every settings in madVR and on the TV as well) with the new and previous settings. This is what happened (I compared the 2.2 frames to the 2.4 ones, since I got used to latter one in the past months):
- to reach similar (but not the same!) results with gamma 2.2 I had to raise the target nits to at least 150 but with some frames in the same movie even to 180/200
- images are more alive, have more pop with 2.4 settings than with the raised 2.2 settings (maybe over-saturation, higher gamma, etc ?)

It's like gamma 2.4 would balance the brightness of the content more.
I'm not telling that it's the correct way to use it, all I'm telling is how it behaves.

as i said before i'm not a friend of this inconsistent behaviour between HDR and SDR.
Thanks, what do you think would be a better approach?

[zapatista]

@ nevcairiel & huhn,

thank you for the clarification :)

[mclingo]

Except it didn't with my previous video card. And it doesn't with the new video *IF* HDMI scaling is at 0. And I have to cable my system up this way as I've had too many issues when using my AVR as and HDMI switch.

Well now I'm getting another result with scaling on lots of dropped frames and high queue times. Before it was lots of glitches with normal queue times.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnsGKXR_EKR0hCfOm_6m0n5aXCFL

its unusual to have scaling issues these days with a HDTV, have you got an odd aspect ratio on your TV, what model is it, assume you are not using two displays?


You may also have better luck using FSE, turning off motion smoothing and using refresh rate switching.

[huhn]

Thanks, what do you think would be a better approach?

move it to color & gamma by adding a HDR-SDR gamma processing that is ticked by default with pure gamma curve 2.20 and a warning to not change it.
this makes sure you can still properly gamma process SDR and don't ruin HDR with this option.

this makes sure gamma is only processed with this tab and well 3D LUTs so it is consistent as it should be.

the next thing i would add is an info in the 3d LUT what the gamma this 3D LUT target is so this will be treated like "this display is already calibrated" and you are done with 3D LUT and get the correct gamma.

i guess for BT 1886 you take the effective gamma and add this as an info. it's usually between 2.1-2.4 and this is better then nothing.

@glc650
windows is changing the WDDM driver like they have nothing better to do. your old card may just use an older better working WDDM i have no deeper look into this i just know they change it and this can produce presentation issue with are pretty normal with 2 screens.

try dx9 FSE. overlay would be a workaround too. but i doubt AMD added it.
it's clearly an presentation issue.
if it comes from the scaling alone and no other combinations of settings you need to send an custom resolution and hope the TV except it this is an advanced topic. doesn't look like amd has an resize feature someone else would have pointed out the name of it in this thread already the HDMI scaling or custom resolution are not the same.

[glc650]

its unusual to have scaling issues these days with a HDTV, have you got an odd aspect ratio on your TV, what model is it, assume you are not using two displays?


You may also have better luck using FSE, turning off motion smoothing and using refresh rate switching.It's 16:9. Mitsubishi LaserView 65". I have a TV attached to the only HDMI port on the card and an AVR attached to one of the display ports with a DP to HDMI adapter (I can't use my AVR as an HDMI switch). FSE doesn't work for me even with scaling at 0. I have to use motion smoothing as my TV doesn't handle 23/24 properly.