madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) [Archive] - Page 872

creativeopinion

1st May 2017, 07:10

Hi!

I'm not sure if my settings are correct but when playing HDR content my picture mode doesn't change so it stays at cinema pro. I thought it will automatically switch to HDR mode but please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here. Thanks!

Sony KD55-9305XD
Nvidia GeForce 1070
Latest madVR 91.9
MPC-HC nightly version: 1.7.10.296

madVR is setup -> tv -> hdr -> passthrough HDR content to the display -> send HDR metadata to the display -> use Nvidia's private API

Ginnoji

1st May 2017, 08:41

This is how I was able to get HDR videos to pass through the HDR metadata to my TV:

Software used:
madVR v0.91.9
LAV Filters 0.69.0-44
MPC-HC 1.7.11.13 x64
Nvidia display driver 381.89
Windows 10 1703

Nvidia Control Panel:
http://i.imgur.com/M5KxTx3.png

Windows 10 System settings:
http://i.imgur.com/23Mp535.png

Media player Windows properties:
http://i.imgur.com/CMDgYy2.png

madVR settings:
http://i.imgur.com/qoR6NV6.png
http://i.imgur.com/XpRAzbx.png
http://i.imgur.com/4Pl6Rk1.png

Image quality was similar to the TV's internal media player.
Choosing Nvidia's API or Microsoft's API didn't seem to have an impact on image quality.
I used a 980 Ti to conduct the above test.

sneaker_ger

1st May 2017, 09:49

Operating System? Nvidia driver version? Screenshot of madvr OSD during playback (ctrl+j)?

creativeopinion

1st May 2017, 10:06

Operating System? Nvidia driver version? Screenshot of madvr OSD during playback (ctrl+j)?

Windows 7, x64
Nvidia Driver version: 381.89, release date 25/04/2017
OSD: https://www.sendspace.com/file/gkrisg

mueslibrown

1st May 2017, 11:53

Creators update applied yesterday - all working fine for me ...

JRiver MC22 22.0.97
Nvidia GTX 980
Madvr 0.91.8
Geforce 381.65
Lav Nightly 0.69.0-44

ryrynz

1st May 2017, 12:17

Also just updated to Creators, changed NV control panel back to adaptive, re added the custom 24hz mode and it's running beautifully.

Knight77

1st May 2017, 16:50

Hi guys, semi-OT here: my HTPC is using a GTX1070, let's say 99% just for madvr/Kodi and music. My Nvidia drivers are ones of a January release and everything works fine, should I update anyway or since everything is running well just let it be? What's your opinion on this topic?

Knight77

1st May 2017, 16:54

lunnar

1st May 2017, 17:28

lunnar

1st May 2017, 17:33

When a JVC projector receives HDR metadata it gets locked into HDR mode. This doesn't actually do anything other than turning off the dynamic iris and defaulting to a JVC predefined HDR-gammacurve. The major selling point for a JVC is the black levels, hence we want the dynamic iris. Also, custom gamma curves give better results than JVC's own solution so it's nice to have a user mode properly setup for HDR that doesn't default to a worse JVC curve.

The current go-to solution to get the best result with UHD material is to buy an HDFury Linker for 200$ in order to strip the hdr metadata before the JVC receives it. With Madvr, we are basically getting this functionality without having to buy a separate device.

All information can be found on avsforum.

Wow I totally understand now, thanks.

Q-the-STORM

1st May 2017, 21:31

ryrynz

1st May 2017, 21:59

Can you guys stop quoting entire posts and writing one line replies to it, it's annoying as hell.
All you have to do is delete everything but what you're replying to within the quote /quote statements.. Pretty simple stuff.

Tobiwan

2nd May 2017, 10:07

Hi,

I have a few questions about the madVR settings with Nvidia etc and maybe someone can help me with it, because I always had a AMD card in the past and its very hard to understand all off it now, even with the wikis etc.

Nvidia have several VSYNC settings, I try fast (which I use for gaming too) but get video/picture disturbances at the playback; VSYNC off make nothing no speed benefit to VSYNC on... what are you use?

I'm trying a lot of settings to get a good rendering time for my 4K display with my 1060 card, what are you think about it?

Config1: 1080p
Chroma NNEDI3-64 / doubling xbr 100 / scaling Lanczos3 AR = ~20.45ms
Config2: 1080p
Chroma Lanczos4 AR / doubling xbr 100 / scaling Lanczos3 AR = ~10ms
Config3: 1080p
Chroma Lanczos4 AR / upscaling Jinc = ~14.80ms

ryrynz

2nd May 2017, 11:02

Ditch NNEDI3 for chroma and look at NGU AA, also compare NGU vs xbr and decide what you like there. Lanczos AR is fine for extra scaling, I also like Jinc AR here.

Tobiwan

2nd May 2017, 11:53

Thank you ryrynz for your help:

NGU AA low + xbr 100 + Lanczos3 AR = ~11ms
NGU AA med + xbr 100 + Lanczos3 AR = ~12.80ms
NGU AA high + xbr 100 + Lanczos3 AR = ~16.00ms

XBR runs best as doubling on my system, I can use NGU's at low or the xbr 100...

What brings more benefit the upscaling or the doubling? If I use NGU AA for the chroma upscaling which NGU I should use for the doubling? What should be the target ms at the end?

Ver Greeneyes

2nd May 2017, 12:42

I'd prioritize it like this: luma doubling > other enhancements > further upscaling/downscaling > chroma upscaling > chroma doubling. There are some situations where the chroma upscaling algorithm can make a noticeable difference, but they're few and far between, and the difference between chroma doubling algorithms will likely be invisible. The target ms depends on the frame rate of the content you watch, with 24fps content it's 41.67ms and with 60fps content it's 16.67ms. However you should probably leave 1-1.5ms of headroom. Ultimately what matters is that your buffers stay full, so just crank up your settings until your card can't keep up anymore and dial them back from there.

Tobiwan

2nd May 2017, 13:24

41.67ms is very high, everything over 30ms is no go for me, the video lags even with smooth motion

Ver Greeneyes

2nd May 2017, 13:46

Well, like I said it depends on the content. If anything over ~30ms lags then you're probably watching 30fps content (a frame every 33.33ms). You can create profiles with different settings for different kinds of content.

Tobiwan

2nd May 2017, 15:14

I'm not really sure what are you mean Ver Greeneyes. The rendering time in ms only means how fast it card works with the settings what does this have to do with the fps? Smooth motion is always on for me because my PC display doesn't support the original timings, so why should I care about the fps? Smooth motion "fix" the issue, I only need a fast and good rendering setting.

huhn

2nd May 2017, 16:22

the rendertime give on how long it takes to render a frame.

with a 24 fps source you have ~42 ms to render this frame with a 30 FPS source you have ~33 ms to render a frame and with a 60 fps source you have ~16 ms.

so stable rendertime of 38 ms for a 24 FPS source should be totally stable.

Tobiwan

2nd May 2017, 17:06

Ok thank you, I think I understand it now. If I can run a 23fps without problems I can run every fps, so I tweak here. Good.

Did I get glitches and dropped frames because the settings are to high? I already go from NGU AA high to med but glitches too.

Ver Greeneyes

2nd May 2017, 17:39

If I can run a 23fps without problems I can run every fps, so I tweak here. Good.

No, not really. Think of every frame as a still image. The time your card needs to upscale that image (or whatever else) depends on how big the image is, and how big the result is. So for example, it might take 12ms to upscale 720p input to 1440p, and 27ms to upscale 1080p input to 2160p.

But the frame rate of the content you're watching determines the budget your card has to actually finish what it's doing. So with the previous example you'd be able to watch 30fps content (33.33ms budget) at full speed in both cases, but for 60fps content (16.67ms budget) the 1080p video would stutter whereas the 720p video would still be fine.

So you have two options:
1) select settings that work for the highest resolution, highest frame rate content you have (e.g. 1080p at 60fps). Those settings should then work for everything else too*.
2) create settings for each kind of content you care about - one set of settings for 720p at 30fps, one set for 1080p at 60fps and so on. This is more work, but it lets you use more demanding options for lower quality content.

* There is a caveat to this - if you're displaying 1080p content on a 1080p monitor it doesn't have to do any upscaling, so half the settings will go unused. In that case upscaling 720p content might be more expensive.

Tobiwan

2nd May 2017, 18:01

I try different profiles with my old AMD card but wasn't happy and give up, so I need to find anything for all. My display is 4K, everything is upscale from 1080p to 2160p. That's the point about my question "What brings more benefit the upscaling or the doubling?", because its already doubled on my display and if I understand it right its two times doubled 1x upscaling from 1080p to 2160p + 2160p doubled with XBR...

My old config runs not that bad: chroma Lanczos3 AR + xbr 100 doubled = ~12.30ms with peaks of 41ms max... but did I really need the two or quad doublings? I have no idea why the are presentation glitches 105 / 9min the are on every setting, I also check the general settings etc and try a bit.

Asmodian

2nd May 2017, 19:30

You don't want extra doubling, super sampling video has very limited benefits and some costs. Unless you are using the super sampling option in madVR's image doubling (not recommended) you don't get any extra doubling, the doubling algorithm is simply the algorithm used to do the 1080p to 2160p resize.

When using your old config and watching 1080p the video was simply doubled to 2160p using xbr 100, Lanczos3 did not to do anything after that because you wanted to display it at 2160p. If you needed to upscale it a little bit after doubling (e.g. if it was cropped 1080p) Lanczos3 would be the method used to upscale it further.

edit: The pure doubling algorithms (NGU, NNEDI3, xBR) can offer better quality than the equation based methods like Jinc, Lanczos, Cubic, etc. because they can treat edges differently and other similar tricks involving more complex models of image content.

Tobiwan

2nd May 2017, 20:16

Very interesting Asmodian! Any idea why I have the presentation glitches and dropped frames? Its not any of the algorithms settings, not separate devices settings, vsync is on with present a frame for every VSync... Display: "vsync 16.67ms, frame 41.71ms" Nvidia driver is 381.89 latest

ryrynz

2nd May 2017, 22:00

Georgel

3rd May 2017, 00:54

Seems that I've found a very happy place with madVR settings for my rather lower quality, not so well encoded content (anime music videos).

The settings are basically debanding to max, some edge thinning and everything running in soft cubic.

For movies it looks a bit too soft, but for anime music videos and especially for those that weren't properly encoded, it looks awesome!

mrmojo666

3rd May 2017, 13:10

Hi all,

I have a question on HDR (maybe on metadata).

I have a amd rx460

When i try to play HDR video with madvr seems that something is not going as I expected .

Image looks washed out and color not correctly saturated. Even Tv switch correctly to HDR mode.

I start to think metadata are not sent to TV, because if i check / uncheck "send metadata.." nothing changes. (obviously win10 api is selected)

If if play that file using win10 tv and video player looks gorgeous: deep black , bright whites and colored.

If turn off HDR in win10 slider i got totally wrong image in win10 tv and video player and in madvr i got a good sdr version of video.

How can I debug this behavior ?

Tobiwan

3rd May 2017, 13:18

Are we talking only a few glitches and dropped frames or all the time? Are you in Adaptive mode for your Nvidia graphics card?
Upload your files somewhere else, it takes days to get approved here.
For starters reset madVR to defaults using the batch file inside the directory and test that, if that doesn't change anything uninstall and reinstall your drivers then report back.

The MPC runs at maximum power mode. I have reset all the settings and the problems are gone, I don't know why, but no glitches and dropped frames anymore, before the reset 115 dropped frames and 100 glitches in 10min.

I also find good stats for me: chroma NGU AA high + xbr 100 double = ~16-27ms / 23.976fps smooth motion on

At the old configs there was always double+quad xbr active, result was 40+ms, now without quad its ok for me I think.

pose

3rd May 2017, 13:52

Is there any point in ticking "this display is already calibrated" if you only use an ICC profile for your monitor?

Tobiwan, what videocard are you using?

Tobiwan

3rd May 2017, 14:13

I'm using a MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X with 6GB.

huhn

3rd May 2017, 15:00

Is there any point in ticking "this display is already calibrated" if you only use an ICC profile for your monitor?

yes that's what it is made for you can set it to the target of your ICC file.

and don't use an ICC file to calibrate the output of madVR just saying you can get better results in term of quality.

Ver Greeneyes

3rd May 2017, 17:00

Is there any point in ticking "this display is already calibrated" if you only use an ICC profile for your monitor?
I think it enables some extra processing to yield more accurate colors. However, your ICC profile will do nothing in any program not written to process it (LUT loaded into your GPU aside), and that includes madVR. If you own a physical calibrator, you should consider making 3DLUTs for madVR instead.

ryrynz

3rd May 2017, 21:22

The MPC runs at maximum power mode. I have reset all the settings and the problems are gone, I don't know why

madVR's config can get messy with upgrades.

I also find good stats for me: chroma NGU AA high + xbr 100 double = ~16-27ms / 23.976fps smooth motion on

Don't worry about stats, as long as you're under the frame presentation time you're fine. Ideally you want the config to deal with the different content to get the most out of your performance headroom.
Having one config go from 16-27ms is not ideal.

Snowknight26

4th May 2017, 02:05

I can't tell where the issue is but I only see it happen with madVR so I assume that's it. When playing a 2160p 10-bit HEVC video in fullscreen mode on my GTX 950, the colors become completely messed up, almost like the RGB channels are mixed up, and the video is extremely dark (but whites are ok). This only happens with native DXVA - copy-back is ok. With EVR, it's not an issue. Anyone noticed this?

MS-DOS

4th May 2017, 02:41

Anyone noticed this?

It was reported multiple times here by a few people including myself (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1798517#post1798517). Unless I missed it there was no response from madshi yet.

XMonarchY

4th May 2017, 03:17

I didn't mess up my OS. I made a backup image to restore my current build later, but just to humor myself I formatted, and freshly installed Anniversary Edition, all latest drivers, all HTPC software I always use and there was no issue at 23.970Hz. Then I did another format and clean install of Creator's Update, all latest drivers, all HTPC software I use and once again - dropped frames at 23.970Hz and no dropped frames at 24.000Hz.

Why do people assume that if something works for them and not for someone else, then its got to be the user error? There are countless variations of hardware and software used with madVR for playback.

Many people with problems don't even know that they have problems until you show it to them. I am not saying its any of you, but some people say they get 0 dropped frames because their playback is smooth... to their eyes, but they haven't even heard of CTRL+J stats menu...

Creators update applied yesterday - all working fine for me ...

JRiver MC22 22.0.97
Nvidia GTX 980
Madvr 0.91.8
Geforce 381.65
Lav Nightly 0.69.0-44

JRiver is 64bit and has its own Re-Clock-like feature that is also 64bit and made just for JRiver. I am on 32bit MPC-HC and there is only 32bit Re-Clock version. Maybe with your setup I would also have no problems. Thank you for letting me know - I will check it out and report.

huhn

4th May 2017, 03:31

can you make a screen of the OSD ?

mogli

4th May 2017, 07:15

And maybe check your ReClock log, too.

Oguignant

4th May 2017, 07:28

Hi,

I have the "send hdr metadata to the display" option enabled. I tried both, "use nvidia private api" and "use Windows 10 Api", but neither option activates HDR from the Tv. If I active from the Windows 10 screen settings in "HDR and advanced color" the hdr mode on the tv is activated. I have the latest windows 10 update and the latest nvidia gtx 1070 drivers. My tv is a LG OLED ef9500. what am I doing wrong?

SamuelMaki

4th May 2017, 08:13

I think it enables some extra processing to yield more accurate colors. However, your ICC profile will do nothing in any program not written to process it (LUT loaded into your GPU aside), and that includes madVR. If you own a physical calibrator, you should consider making 3DLUTs for madVR instead.

MadVR works just fine with ICC profile, if you have a nvidia card and use the overlay-setting (like you should if you have a nvidia). For example I do not own a calibrator, yet I have an old .icc file which still works (close enough anyways, display quite awful without it). However the target was an sRGB, not sure what I should pick in the "display is already calibrated" point, so I leave it on "disable calibration controls".

Oguignant

4th May 2017, 08:27

MadVR works just fine with ICC profile, if you have a nvidia card and use the overlay-setting (like you should if you have a nvidia). For example I do not own a calibrator, yet I have an old .icc file which still works (close enough anyways, display quite awful without it). However the target was an sRGB, not sure what I should pick in the "display is already calibrated" point, so I leave it on "disable calibration controls".

I have an icc profile (lut matrix v4) for Windows and a 3DLut of 17000 points for madvr. There is a big difference with a 3dlut and an icc. With ICC it only improves a little bit. The big difference you'll notice with a 3DLut. The color is amazing with a 3DLut. To obtain excellent quality of colors, it is not enough with a colorimeter. You need a spectrophotometer to create a profile for your TV/monitor. I have an xrite i1display pro and an i1pro 2 (Calman 5 which does a better job than DisplayCal).

ORIGINAL
http://i.imgur.com/ArGVFhih.jpg

ICC Lut Matrix v4
http://i.imgur.com/4atu4q9h.jpg

3DLut 17000p
http://i.imgur.com/svTLqjIh.jpg

Asmodian

4th May 2017, 08:43

MadVR works just fine with ICC profile, if you have a nvidia card and use the overlay-setting (like you should if you have a nvidia). For example I do not own a calibrator, yet I have an old .icc file which still works (close enough anyways, display quite awful without it). However the target was an sRGB, not sure what I should pick in the "display is already calibrated" point, so I leave it on "disable calibration controls".

Like Windows, madVR uses the linear LUT part of an ICC profile (loaded into GPU hardware) but not the gamut and/or profile information which color managed programs like Photoshop could use. madVR uses the 3DLUT for that. It also doesn't matter which rendering mode or GPU hardware you have, this part of the ICC profile always works. With overlay on Nvidia madVR emulates the GPU hardware, because that mode bypasses it, but the calibration get applied correctly either way.

"disable calibration controls" is actually the same as the defaults for "this display is already calibrated" (which is what you should use as well). madVR has to display the video in some format and sRGB is the normal assumed Windows default. :)

Tobiwan

4th May 2017, 09:13

Having one config go from 16-27ms is not ideal.

The 27ms happens at intensive scenes, I don't know why, is it more intensive to render maybe? It drops down back to a lower time after that. I mean its all better then a 40ms+ render time...

Snowknight26

4th May 2017, 13:03

It was reported multiple times here by a few people including myself (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1798517#post1798517). Unless I missed it there was no response from madshi yet.

Though I saw those posts about black screens, I didn't think they were related as those all appear to be issues exclusive to the AMD RX 4x0 and 5x0 series. Plus, my video isn't completely black like those posts appear to suggest, just badly discolored.

mcn

4th May 2017, 17:46

Since version 0.91.0 I have a noticeable delay (more than 10 seconds) before playback starts.
With the more recent versions the audio starts with a delay of about 5 seconds, but the video still waits about 10 seconds.
Version 0.90.24, and the previous ones, don't have this issue.

This also happens after resetting madVR settings.

Some details on my configuration (apart from the OS everything else is 32-bit):

Nvidia GTX 680 with drivers 381.89

Windows 8.1 x64

MPC-HC 1.7.11
LAV Filters 0.69.0
madVR 0.91.8

This also happens with DVB Viewer Pro 5.5.0.0 instead of MPC-HC.

I checked the changelog for 0.91.0 but I can't see anything that might cause this.
Any suggestions?

Tobiwan

4th May 2017, 18:28

What makes delayed frames? Any setting? Should I worried about a few delayed frames at the windowed overlay mode?

Asmodian

4th May 2017, 18:32

Debanding fade detection is the only thing to watch in my opinion. Maybe set both debanding options to the same level, low/low or med/med?

I have an icc profile (lut matrix v4) for Windows and a 3DLut of 17000 points for madvr. There is a big difference with a 3dlut and an icc. With ICC it only improves a little bit. The big difference you'll notice with a 3DLut.

I suggest not posting screen shots to show the improvements of a 3DLUT, your 3DLUT image looks really bad on my display. Our displays obviously need very different corrections. ;)

I do agree that i1pro2 is much better than my i1 display pro was, there are so many backlight technologies out there that I don't think colorimeters are reliable anymore. :(

Frexxia

4th May 2017, 18:39

I'm encountering some very strange behavior if I disable exclusive mode:

If I seek in the video and keep the seek bar active I'm getting comparable render times to exclusive mode
http://i.imgur.com/64UvGhM.jpg

As soon as the seek bar becomes inactive and madvr changes from D3D9 windowed to D3D9 windowed fullscreen I'm getting very high render times
http://i.imgur.com/MpJU5u0.jpg

But it isn't only related to D3D9 windowed fullscreen, because if I activate the seek bar without actually seeking I'm still getting very high render times
http://i.imgur.com/3nc7OAN.jpg

Edit:
Immediately after posting this I discovered that enabling the option "use Direct3D 11 for presentation" seems to be a solution for my problem.

I've always been able to use NGU Sharp (High) for upscaling, but not after updating to MadVR v0.91.9. I can't guarantee that the update is what did it, though.