madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[KeVe1983]

Hey guys,

maybe someone can help.

I'm running Kodi 17.4 DSPlayer with madVR, LAV Filters, XySubfilter on Windows 10 with a Nvidia GT 1030 card and latest driver.
Desktop resolution is set to 4K native with RGB full.

HDR was not recognized.

So i switched Desktop to 1080p with RGB full and 12 Bit.
HDR was recognized fine and is switching on/off automatically.
But i only can play one 4K file.
If i stop the file and play the next one i will go back to my desktop in 4K resolution and the left top quarter is just black.
Have to kill kodi in taskmanager.

Then i switched back to desktop 4K resolution with RGB full.
I noticed the colordepht entry is just grey, it did not switch back to 8 bit automatically.

But HDR still plays fine on/off automatically, even after a reboot.

So switching to 1080p and back to 4K is the resolution for HDR.

My problem is TV Levels/PC Levels and normal SD, HD and 4K movies.

When i set madVR to PC Levels normal SD and HD movies looking fine, but HDR is to dark and a lots of details are missing.
When i set madVR to TV Levels normal SD and HD movies looking to bright or as they have to much contrast, but HDR is correct with right brightnes and colors.

How can i fix this?

Is it possible that madVR switch between PC and TV Levels depending on which kind of file is played?
Maybe by a rule or something like that?

Or do i need other settings in madVR?

Thanks

[cork_OS]

@madshi
These new algorithms pretty darn good for image processing:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/121039
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/121038
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/121040

I think you should release a tool or even better a paint.net plugin for these, they're worthy of it. I couldn't get a palatable result result for these images with paint.net filters ( even including some third party plugins)
Photoshop plugin is more profitable.

5) There's a new option called "don't reduce texture detail", which activates a slightly modified "reduce compression artifacts" algorithm. The original algo included some random noise reduction over the whole video frame. The modified algo tries to do noise reduction only near edges. The difference is not overly dramatic, though. Which option do you like more? I think I'm going to switch to the "don't reduce texture detail" algo variant and remove the option in the next build, but wanted to give you the chance to compare first.
It seems I was late for the discussion, but anyway: I prefer "don't reduce texture detail" for RCA strength 1-5 maybe 1-4. Not sure about higher strength RCA, I'll check later.

[huhn]

My problem is TV Levels/PC Levels and normal SD, HD and 4K movies.

When i set madVR to PC Levels normal SD and HD movies looking fine, but HDR is to dark and a lots of details are missing.
When i set madVR to TV Levels normal SD and HD movies looking to bright or as they have to much contrast, but HDR is correct with right brightnes and colors.

How can i fix this?

Is it possible that madVR switch between PC and TV Levels depending on which kind of file is played?
Maybe by a rule or something like that?

Or do i need other settings in madVR?

Thanks

first of all make sure it is working correctly with a player like mpc-hc.

now levels.
When i set madVR to TV Levels normal SD and HD movies looking to bright or as they have to much contrast, but HDR is correct with right brightnes and colors.

changing from PC levels to Tv makes an image less bright and it losses a lot of contrast compared to the PC level screen.

so first of all you should make sure the levels are correctly setup for your screen.
you can start here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/948496-avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration.html
the black clipping file is all you need. 16 has to be black if anything below 16 is visible you are most likely running TV level where it should be Pc levels.

a file can be full range and that no problem as long as the file is correctly created with a full range flag if not it can only manuelly be fixed and the file could be considered broken.

[mrmojo666]

Hi,
I was thinking.......
I know that amd is not the best for madvr, but rx460 is not a weak card. Seems that is not able to manage any artifact removal or upscaling that is not dxva.
just activating reduce banding artifact adds 10ms and gpu goes at 100%.

Seem a bit too much 100% gpu for this simple filter or for a bicubic upscaling from 1080 to 4k at 50fps

Are we sure that amd doesn't need some coding modification for work correctly as done for HDR switching ?

[huhn]

AMD cards are generally good cards for madVR.
the problem are the newer AMD cards polaris has major problem with NGU.
in the same price range AMD cards are usually faster than nvidia cards for madVR.

but if i see this right you are using a rx 460 for UHD correct?
well it is a 2Gb version? if yes you may just run out of Vram and there is little to nothing AMD can do about this.

[mzso]

Photoshop plugin is more profitable.
Perhaps. Though my impression is that madshi is not doing it for money.

Anyway, I was thinking of paint.net because it simple and freeware and quite widespread.

[aufkrawall]

Deband isn't cheap for high res. And it sounds more like driver problems, I had a R9 390 and a GTX 980 and the 390 wasn't really worse.

[huhn]

debanding is nothing a RX 460 can't do at 1080p50 it's so cheap.
my 960 doesn't really care about debanding and this card is only ~50% faster.

[mclingo]

Hi, started getting an odd problem recently, it either LAV or MADVR causing it but I cant decouple these to diagnose further. There seems to be a problem where changing back and forth from 1080p to 2160p and 3D I get a loss of handshake and I have to use DEVCON reset to get it back.

This is what happens (both KODI and MPC)

I play a 3D movie, after a few seconds on a blank screen my TV switches 3D mode and plays the movies no problems. If I stop the movie the TV comes out of 3D mode and then I get black screen.

If I put my HTPC into 1080p resolution this doesnt work so its something to do with how MADVR and LAV filters are dealing with refresh rate and resolution switching.

Any ideas anyone?

[aufkrawall]

my 960 doesn't really care about debanding and this card is only ~50% faster.
I could swear it was slower in the past on Nvidia than it is now. :o

[huhn]

@mclingo
lavfilter is not switching the resolution or refreshrate of your screen.

so what windows version and GPU driver are you using.

there was an windows 10 insider build back in the days that did just that for me with every resolution change.

[Jtacdf]

I think full hd to 4k upscaling, with most default bells and whistles activated, is an impossible task for the RX 460. It was only designed for full hd gaming after all. You might have to think of madvr full features performance in a similar mindset to gpu video gaming performance.

[HillieSan]

AMD cards are generally good cards for madVR.
the problem are the newer AMD cards polaris has major problem with NGU.
in the same price range AMD cards are usually faster than nvidia cards for madVR.

What problem with NGU and RX?

[HillieSan]

Hi,
I was thinking.......
I know that amd is not the best for madvr, but rx460 is not a weak card. Seems that is not able to manage any artifact removal or upscaling that is not dxva.
just activating reduce banding artifact adds 10ms and gpu goes at 100%.

Seem a bit too much 100% gpu for this simple filter or for a bicubic upscaling from 1080 to 4k at 50fps

Are we sure that amd doesn't need some coding modification for work correctly as done for HDR switching ?

Use d3d11 with the RX card. You must set d3d11 in madvr and in LAV. Put the error detection on random or ordered in madvr (this is faster and you don't see a difference). Also, uncheck all 'trade quality for performance' options. Let the display switch to the frequence of the movie (23/24 Hz) and do not use 60 Hz.

[HillieSan]

I think full hd to 4k upscaling, with most default bells and whistles activated, is an impossible task for the RX 460. It was only designed for full hd gaming after all. You might have to think of madvr full features performance in a similar mindset to gpu video gaming performance.

I think that HD -> 4K with NGU medium will work on the RX 460 with d3d11 (not with d3d9) on 24 Hz (perhaps not on 60Hz). Most movies are 23/24 Hz.

[mclingo]

I think that HD -> 4K with NGU medium will work on the RX 460 with d3d11 (not with d3d9) on 24 Hz (perhaps not on 60Hz). Most movies are 23/24 Hz.


I gave up my RX 480 in favour of the power saving on the RX 550, this was a really bad idea as it turned out, its pretty weak with MADVR, pretty much had to move down to laczos on everything, it never occurred to me how much GPU MADVR was using.

[mclingo]

@mclingo
lavfilter is not switching the resolution or refreshrate of your screen.

so what windows version and GPU driver are you using.

there was an windows 10 insider build back in the days that did just that for me with every resolution change.

MADVR is swapping resolutions and refresh rates to match the video, i'm using win 10 latest build ATi RX 550 latest driver.

it also happended when I switch my desktop from 1080p to 2160p manually so it may in fact be a windows 10 or ATI problem, I might roll back some GFX drivers this weekend.

[Jtacdf]

madvr is dependent on various component like Vram, shaders performance, FLOPS. It's one of the reason why I still stick with an r9 290x. Though it's getting really long in the tooth now and I'm considering a change of gpu.

[mrmojo666]

Thank you all for the answers and i want to say madvr is the best in smoothness (if i use all DXVA) and colors, much much better than EVR

AMD cards are generally good cards for madVR.
the problem are the newer AMD cards polaris has major problem with NGU.
in the same price range AMD cards are usually faster than nvidia cards for madVR.

but if i see this right you are using a rx 460 for UHD correct?
well it is a 2Gb version? if yes you may just run out of Vram and there is little to nothing AMD can do about this.

it is a 4gb, gpu-z says 2,2 GB mem used

Deband isn't cheap for high res. And it sounds more like driver problems, I had a R9 390 and a GTX 980 and the 390 wasn't really worse.

unfortunately it's happening from when i got the card and many drivers has been changed and it happens also with 578p 50 hz broacast streams


debanding is nothing a RX 460 can't do at 1080p50 it's so cheap.
my 960 doesn't really care about debanding and this card is only ~50% faster.

sorry i don't understand what do you mean

I think full hd to 4k upscaling, with most default bells and whistles activated, is an impossible task for the RX 460. It was only designed for full hd gaming after all. You might have to think of madvr full features performance in a similar mindset to gpu video gaming performance.

DXVA upscaling is doing his job perfectly (5 ms) , I'm not interested in crappy low low res videos to upscale,I'm curious and i want just to try something different from DXVA, but seems pretty strange (for me that i don't know anything about GPu code developing ) that it is so awful even with simple upscaling algoritms or processing filters. With games it is not so terrible.


Use d3d11 with the RX card. You must set d3d11 in madvr and in LAV. Put the error detection on random or ordered in madvr (this is faster and you don't see a difference). Also, uncheck all 'trade quality for performance' options. Let the display switch to the frequence of the movie (23/24 Hz) and do not use 60 Hz.

yep, i'm already using dx11 for lav and madvr. Weak performance is with PAL broadcast 1080i e 578p 50hz, honestly about movies I don't see any big difference using DXVA upscaling or NGU or whaterver watching BD disks.
Anyway i'm going to try the other proposed tweaks.

[nussman]

Afaik with D3D11 native decoding (GPU) deinterlacing is still not implemented in madVR. So atm its not recommend for pal broadcast. Hope we will see deinterlacing with D3D11 sooner or later, because D3D decoding works really well for me with AMD RX hardware.

[Blackwalker]

i'd like to thx el Filou and who give me some tips!
Now it's not perfect, but now i can play without shuttering hdr 4k movie!

I have to test more and more for better result but i wanna say thx!

reducing decode CPU and GPU at 4 (both) helped and set also bilinear and dvxa everywhere in madvr settings helped too.

Continue with testing! :)

[HillieSan]

I gave up my RX 480 in favour of the power saving on the RX 550, this was a really bad idea as it turned out, its pretty weak with MADVR, pretty much had to move down to laczos on everything, it never occurred to me how much GPU MADVR was using.

The 550 is like the 450. The 550 is more suitable for overclocking. Try to overclock the 550.

BTW 480 is like the 580. The 580 is just a little bit faster and lesser heat production than the 480.

The 480 is now faster than when it hit the market. Thanks to the driver improvements. This applies to games, not to MadVR.

[HillieSan]

Afaik with D3D11 native decoding (GPU) deinterlacing is still not implemented in madVR. So atm its not recommend for pal broadcast. Hope we will see deinterlacing with D3D11 sooner or later, because D3D decoding works really well for me with AMD RX hardware.

I thought that LAV supports deinterlacing.

[HillieSan]

unfortunately it's happening from when i got the card and many drivers has been changed and it happens also with 578p 50 hz broacast streams


Have you checked Kodi dsplayer 17.4?

[Jtacdf]

DXVA upscaling is doing his job perfectly (5 ms) , I'm not interested in crappy manga low low res videos to upscale,I'm curious and i want just to try something different from DXVA, but seems pretty strange (for me that i don't know anything about GPu code developing ) that it is so awful even with simple upscaling algoritms or processing filters. With games it is not so terrible.


yep, i'm already using dx11 for lav and madvr. Weak performance is with PAL broadcast 1080i e 578p 50hz, honestly about movies I don't see any big difference using DXVA upscaling or NGU or whaterver watching BD disks.
Anyway i'm going to try the other proposed tweaks.

DXVA is hardware acceleration while madvr work is mostly done by gpu shaders. A Rx 460 has only 896 shaders.
In comparison, the much older r9 290x that I have has 2816.

A video content playing back at 50fps on a 50hz screen has a maximum limit of 20ms to render before frames are dropped.
What is your rendering stats, when you fully switch to using madvr, for full-hd to 4k 50hz upscaling?

[mrmojo666]

DXVA is hardware acceleration while madvr work is mostly done by gpu shaders. A Rx 460 has only 896 shaders.
In comparison, the much older r9 290x that I have has 2816.

A video content playing back at 50fps on a 50hz screen has a maximum limit of 20ms to render before frames are dropped.
What is your rendering stats, when you fully switch to using madvr, for full-hd to 4k 50hz upscaling?

ngu is at best 30/40

[mclingo]

The 550 is like the 450. The 550 is more suitable for overclocking. Try to overclock the 550.

BTW 480 is like the 580. The 580 is just a little bit faster and lesser heat production than the 480.

The 480 is now faster than when it hit the market. Thanks to the driver improvements. This applies to games, not to MadVR.

I got the 550 as I worked out my always on PC bill was about £800 a year to run, trying to get my idle power consumption down so I dont really want to overclock.

Ultimately changing to the 550 was a mistake.

[KeVe1983]

first of all make sure it is working correctly with a player like mpc-hc.

now levels.


changing from PC levels to Tv makes an image less bright and it losses a lot of contrast compared to the PC level screen.

so first of all you should make sure the levels are correctly setup for your screen.
you can start here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/948496-avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration.html
the black clipping file is all you need. 16 has to be black if anything below 16 is visible you are most likely running TV level where it should be Pc levels.

a file can be full range and that no problem as long as the file is correctly created with a full range flag if not it can only manuelly be fixed and the file could be considered broken.

Messing around for 2 hours again.
Cant get it to work correctly

Thats what it looks like:

Full range (0-255)

HD ok:

https://abload.de/thumb/20171019_205236x1si2.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=20171019_205236x1si2.jpg)

HDR to dark/details missing:

https://abload.de/thumb/20171019_205154h9st9.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=20171019_205154h9st9.jpg)


Limited (16-236)

HDR ok:

https://abload.de/thumb/20171019_2056005fs75.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=20171019_2056005fs75.jpg)

HD to bright/to much contrast/grey vail:

https://abload.de/thumb/20171019_20563231sms.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=20171019_20563231sms.jpg)



How can i fix this?

[mparade]

@madshi

So it seems to me that the "3D" test doesn't actually work. Can anybody confirm that? madVR does show "3D" in the Ctrl+J OSD, right?

Ctrl+J OSD when playing 3D.ISO MVC content as follows:

http://s4.toldacuccot.hu/letoltes?sid=0e20b221e3241825b337104bd2786541&file=madVR_screenshot2_3D.png

[cork_OS]

Im unable to watch dota with any kind of smoothing which lowers sharpness. guess this is what you get for starting off with RoC dota :D
I hate mosquito noise, which is grew up due to UI changes in 7.00 Dota. It's great that thanks to madVR, now there is a choice between sharpness and a less dirty picture.
So we need to come to a decision whether to have "don't reduce texture detail" enabled or disabled. *However*, I'm willing to compromise by turning "don't reduce texture detail" on or off, depending on the selected strength. So e.g. we could have it off for strength 1-3, and have it on for strengths 4-12, or something like that.
RCA is less effective on blocking artifacts than on mosquito noise etc., so a touch of RRN is useful for sources with blocking.
I assume that dedicated deblocking algorithm would be better and could preserve some more detail, but 1-4 drtd / 5-12 or 1-5 rrtd / 6-12 is good compromise for RCA in my opinion.

[Manni]

@Madshi @Nevcairiel

Did you get a chance to look at the DVD playback issue with the Klute sample?

As far as I can see the issue is still there with the latest LAV+MadVR.

Thanks!

[nevcairiel]

@Madshi @Nevcairiel

Did you get a chance to look at the DVD playback issue with the Klute sample?

Disable XySubfilter. Its conflicting with all the things.

[Manni]

Disable XySubfilter. Its conflicting with all the things.

I tried the internal subtitles or no subtitles, that doesn't seem to make any difference here, the problem is still there (using MPC-BE and restarting the player after each change).

Also why would there be a problem only with a few titles?

[nevcairiel]

Who knows. Plays perfectly for me in MPC-HC without XySubfilter installed (uninstalling may be required to ensure its not interfering, just unselecting it for subs isn't enough). madshi could reproduce troubles with XySubfilter as it tried to force itself in there, went away without it.

[Manni]

Who knows. Plays perfectly for me in MPC-HC without XySubfilter installed (uninstalling may be required to ensure its not interfering, just unselecting it for subs isn't enough). madshi could reproduce troubles with XySubfilter as it tried to force itself in there, went away without it.

Sorry but even uninstalling yxsubfilter doesn't change anything.

It doesn't make sense anyway, because whether xysubfilter is installed or not, if I select EVR-CP as the renderer in MPC-BE the problem goes away and the menus are absolutely fine, so that suggests a MadVR issue (or a MadVR configuration issue).

Installing/uninstalling xysubfilter = no difference
Selecting MadVR / EVR-CP = issue / no issue

[mclingo]

trying to understand why my CPU is getting hammered by MADVR, thought the processing happened on the GPU.

CPU us halved why I choose DXVA NATIVE instead of COPYBACK, is this because this is essentially turning the MADVR scaling tweaks as COPYBACK is required?

[nevcairiel]

Sorry but even uninstalling yxsubfilter doesn't change anything.

It doesn't make sense anyway, because whether xysubfilter is installed or not, if I select EVR-CP as the renderer in MPC-BE the problem goes away and the menus are absolutely fine, so that suggests a MadVR issue (or a MadVR configuration issue).

Installing/uninstalling xysubfilter = no difference
Selecting MadVR / EVR-CP = issue / no issue

EVR-CP doesn't support the special XySubfilter interface, so that comparison is quite mood, since it doesn't enter the picture anyway.

Anyway, it plays perfectly for me, and XySubfilter was never installed on my system. madshi could only reproduce it with XySubfilter installed, once he removed it, it was fine. So either you didn't really remove it, or your setup is screwed up even further then that.

[huhn]

MADVR is swapping resolutions and refresh rates to match the video, i'm using win 10 latest build ATi RX 550 latest driver.

it also happended when I switch my desktop from 1080p to 2160p manually so it may in fact be a windows 10 or ATI problem, I might roll back some GFX drivers this weekend.

if this happen without madVR i don't see a reason why this is an issue with madVR.

What problem with NGU and RX?
NGU is very slow on polaris compared to pascal/maxwell or even GCN 1-2.

i told you that before and it is confirmed by other user.
it is a 4gb, gpu-z says 2,2 GB mem used

so it is not an mem issue.
sorry i don't understand what do you mean

it means debanding is supposed to be "free" maybe ~2 ms.

DXVA upscaling is doing his job perfectly (5 ms) , I'm not interested in crappy low low res videos to upscale,I'm curious and i want just to try something different from DXVA, but seems pretty strange (for me that i don't know anything about GPu code developing ) that it is so awful even with simple upscaling algoritms or processing filters. With games it is not so terrible.

5 ms for DXVA scaling ok there has to be something totally wrong.

can you create a folder in the madVR folder called showrendersteps and make me a screen of the OSD.

Messing around for 2 hours again.
Cant get it to work correctly

How can i fix this?
do you have a sample. and what level setting is correct the test?

I thought that LAV supports deinterlacing.

it supports software deinterlancing which is not cheap at 1080p and stops you from using madVR IVTC so it is not an ideal solution.

[noee]

....
NGU is very slow on polaris compared to pascal/maxwell or even GCN 1-2.
...


Still the case with latest drivers? I have an RX560 4Gb here, scaling DVD NGU 4x (Med)/SSIM LL Down (NGU AA Chroma) with RCA 1/Deband Low to 1080P, with headroom. Is this a reasonable test or would 4K be the real test? I don't have 4K screen yet to test with.

[huhn]

you can test it by supersampling 1080p23.
an 960 takes 26-28 ms for NGU sharp high with chroma set to high (NGU low). shown with ShowRenderSteps.

maybe it is limited by the comparable slow pixel fill rate of polaris. fp16 texel rates are slow on polaris too maybe this counts for int16 too.
it has to be something computer games clearly don't care about.

[noee]

You're right, I can only get to med. High pushes it up into the high 40s.

[huhn]

i get about 11 ms with med and i'm talking about the NGU renderstep alone ignoring the other steps.

and don't forget a 960 is about 30% faster card.

[sneaker_ger]

EVR-CP doesn't support the special XySubfilter interface
MPC-HC/EVR-CP does support XySubFilter. Or do you mean it uses yet another interface?

[nevcairiel]

MPC-HC/EVR-CP does support XySubFilter. Or do you mean it uses yet another interface?

He uses MPC-BE, which does not, as far as I know. Additionally, LAV Video only uses this interface with madVR, so with any other renderer there would be no conflicts.

[sneaker_ger]

Ah, MPC-BE. I didn't read carefully enough.

[Aleksoid1978]

MPC-BE support XySubFilter long time ago.

[mclingo]

trying to understand why my CPU is getting hammered by MADVR, thought the processing happened on the GPU, DXVA hardware decoding and everything on the shaders, the CPU should not be touched surely?

If I use NATIVE instead of COPYBACK the CPU use is halved suggesting some of MADVR's work is happening on the CPU, is this nornal?

I've only got a lowly I5 2400

[huhn]

even with DXVA native i get easily 12 x more CPU usages than EVR. in my eye it is should be investigated.

[dvd1]

how to figure out if the video card GPU is at the limit?

[huhn]

same answer as last time if your AVG rendertimes are over the frame tiems you will drop frames because the GPU can't handle it.

or in short if you drop frames your GPU is usual over it's limited