madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[leeperry]

madshi, do you know why colours aren't in the same place in EVR and MadVR? Is it to do with the fact that chroma subsampling isn't strictly defined in terms of position?

In the example below you can see the coloured text is shifted by a pixel to the left in MadVR compared to EVR. I have no idea which is correct, if there is a "correct".

MadVR (http://www.aotplaza.com/Files/HTPC/Screengrabs/EVR%20Scaling/MPC-HC%20MadVR.png)
EVR (http://www.aotplaza.com/Files/HTPC/Screengrabs/EVR%20Scaling/MPC-HC%20EVR-CP.png)
I think the best solution to proper MPEG1 placement with mVR atm would appear to be an automatic profile in ffdshow forcing it to output MPG1 as P216 = problem solved :)

I've not tried it, I don't have a CRT. But cyberbeing has tried it on his CRT and he reports that he doesn't see *any* FRC artifacts whatsoever at ~90Hz or something like that.

So you're using the old rendering path on XPSP3? That might be an explanation.
As it turns out, it's really my 8800GS that couldn't cope with J3AR scaling + FRC on top of it....Ideally if you could see what's going so terribly wrong with 660's on XPSP3, I would instantly upgrade my GPU....otherwise I might stick to bicubic75 for a while, until I find the motivation to install win8.1 or sumthing :p

Anyway, I've been using FRC for a few weeks now and the smoothness in 89.91/96Hz on a CRT is really jaw dropping....especially how it drastically increases the pop effect, I can see why some ppl push for 48fps instead of UHD(or shall I say 2160p, as Joe Kane seems terribly upset about that (http://youtu.be/0ZqhA3iIHm4) :D)

I just ordered yet another LCD screen but this one is pretty much spot-on REC.709, provides 3800:1 CR at D65/100 cd/m², 0.02 cd/m² black and very good response times for an AMVA panel....can't wait to see how FRC will look on this thing :)

It's also said to support up to 1:1 72Hz and it's got a DisplayPort as well so FRC will hopefully impress me even further :devil:

[digitech]

I think the best solution to proper MPEG1 placement with mVR atm would appear to be an automatic profile in ffdshow forcing it to output MPG1 as P216 = problem solved :)


As it turns out, it's really my 8800GS that couldn't cope with J3AR scaling + FRC on top of it....Ideally if you could see what's going so terribly wrong with 660's on XPSP3, I would instantly upgrade my GPU....otherwise I might stick to bicubic75 for a while, until I find the motivation to install win8.1 or sumthing :p

Anyway, I've been using FRC for a few weeks now and the smoothness in 89.91/96Hz on a CRT is really jaw dropping....especially how it drastically increases the pop effect, I can see why some ppl push for 48fps instead of UHD(or shall I say 2160p, as Joe Kane seems terribly upset about that (http://youtu.be/0ZqhA3iIHm4) :D)

I just ordered yet another LCD screen but this one is pretty much spot-on REC.709, provides 3800:1 CR at D65/100 cd/m², 0.02 cd/m² black and very good response times for an AMVA panel....can't wait to see how FRC will look on this thing :)

It's also said to support up to 1:1 72Hz and it's got a DisplayPort as well so FRC will hopefully impress me even further :devil:

What does "FRC" stands for? Sorry if i don't know but i got curious for what you can do or achieve with it and madvr, thanks

[nekromantik]

Hi people

I installed MPC BE with LAV and MadVR.
I got Jinc 3 tap for chroma and image upscale, is this good or should I put chroma upscale to SoftCubic?
My main question is, I have selected "Only when needed" for smooth motion and have deleted 1080p24 on my display resolution switcher in MadVR.
If I play back 480p or 720p video fileswhich are 23.976fps will MadVR upscale to 1080P on my TV if I have disabled the display mode switcher?

edit:

Just tried a 720P 24fps H264 video in exclusive fullscreen mode and Im getting around 130ms render time but in windowed fullscreen around 40ms. Putting chroma upscale and image upscale to Lanzos 4 taps does not make much of a difference.

Im using software decoding on a i5 3337U CPU with HD 4000 and Radeon 8730m dGPU.
Thanks

[ryrynz]

What does "FRC" stand for?

Frame Rate Changer or Frame Rate Conversion.


madVR v0.86.0 released
Added smooth motion frame rate conversion algorithm

[Hiritsuki]

I got a problem about 4K (3840x2160) @ 120fps 's H264 Video
on 24" LCD U2410@60hz

It's seem lag .... but change to EVR will be play normal
Video file is Girls.Generation.Oh.4in1.201002.HDTV.x264.2160p.120fps.DTSES.6.1ch

[LigH]

3840x2160 pixel * 120 fps = 995,328,000 pixels per second to be processed for chroma interpolation. Which GPU is fast enough?

Check the GPU utilization (e.g. with ProcessExplorer), is it used to capacity?

[TheElix]

I just ordered yet another LCD screen but this one is pretty much spot-on REC.709, provides 3800:1 CR at D65/100 cd/m², 0.02 cd/m² black and very good response times for an AMVA panel....can't wait to see how FRC will look on this thing :)

It's also said to support up to 1:1 72Hz and it's got a DisplayPort as well so FRC will hopefully impress me even further :devil:Which one is that?

[Hiritsuki]

3840x2160 pixel * 120 fps = 995,328,000 pixels per second to be processed for chroma interpolation. Which GPU is fast enough?

Check the GPU utilization (e.g. with ProcessExplorer), is it used to capacity?

GPU is GTX680

[rahzel]

Hi madshi,

I see this bug has been reported (http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=53&PHPSESSID=0c5946cca8fadba8ff7cf7c2341a4c6f), but I just want to say that I have the same issue. Using the latest Intel drivers on my HD4000 (3570K) the seekbar doesn't disappear on some videos. Reverting back to the previous driver solves it.

Using same drivers as the bug report above, but I'm using MPC HC, LAV 0.57.

[petran79]

"lower in quality" :confused:

Is the refresh rate properly detected? Is the problem still there with the old rendering path?

Anyway, thanks for the feedback as you are the second person mentioning that 660's are unusable with mVR on XP and I was just about to order one.....I guess I'll have to find the motivation to install and thorougly testbed W7/W8 before ordering a new GPU, bummer....but apparently W8 comes with its own bag of new problems, m$ doesn't want to release W7 SP2(critical hotfixes were released for audio & USB since SP1) and madshi might very well not care all that much about XP anymore. Oh well, don't fix it if it's ain't broken and I'll be saving money in the process too I guess ^^


.

by lower quality I mean if it is encoded in XVID or DIVX that is lower in resources. If its in H264, problem is more likely to occur.

But you have to forget about MadVR Jinc algorithm. Video are totally useless with dropped frames.

[leeperry]

by lower quality I mean if it is encoded in XVID or DIVX that is lower in resources. If its in H264, problem is more likely to occur.

But you have to forget about MadVR Jinc algorithm. Video are totally useless with dropped frames.
righty, but you didn't answer any of my questions :o

Is the refresh rate properly detected? Is the problem still there with the old rendering path?

:thanks:

Which one is that?
more feedback when it'll be sitting on my desk. As an additional appetizer, I can also state that it comes with 360Hz PWM flicker so motion blur shouldn't much of an issue in 60Hz :cool:

[TheElix]

madshi, it seems that "disable GPU gamma ramp" stopped working. This isn't an issue exclusive to my system: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471169/madvr-argyllcms

[kiccolsd]

Hi, I'm using madvr with success for months (Intel HD4000 9.18.10.3111) and I'm experiencing an issue the exclusive mode tag, upper left, is fixed no way to made it disappear. Same for rendering info (CTRL+J) no way to trash them, if I try the portion on the black zone seem to be fixed instead the part over the video disappear. The issue was present also with previous Intel driver. Someone can help me?? :(

[Asmodian]

Which player are you using? Does this happen in MPC-HC?

madshi, it seems that "disable GPU gamma ramp" stopped working. This isn't an issue exclusive to my system: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471169/madvr-argyllcms

It works on my system in FSE or when using "Windowed Overlay (win7 or newer)". Are you running XP?

[ryrynz]

Hi, I'm using madvr with success for months (Intel HD4000 9.18.10.3111) and I'm experiencing an issue the exclusive mode tag, upper left, is fixed no way to made it disappear. Same for rendering info (CTRL+J) no way to trash them, if I try the portion on the black zone seem to be fixed instead the part over the video disappear. The issue was present also with previous Intel driver. Someone can help me?? :(

MadVR is glitchy with the new 3xxx Intel drivers on HD4000, I suggest reverting to the 29xx series if you want MadVR to play nice.

[TheElix]

Which player are you using? Does this happen in MPC-HC?
It works on my system in FSE or when using "Windowed Overlay (win7 or newer)". Are you running XP?I am using the latest SVN MPC-HC.1.6.7.7114.x86 on Win 7 x64.

[Plutotype]

MadVR is glitchy with the new 3xxx Intel drivers on HD4000, I suggest reverting to the 29xx series if you want MadVR to play nice.

Planning a Haswell notebook, is this a madvr related issue or Intels fault?

[Buckster]

with some content (1080p) - my Render buffer drops to 0 - thus causing dropped frames - yet other its at a more healthy 6+

can I check that the Render buffer is GPU related not CPU related ? (I'm trying to work out where my weak link is)

I've had got set Chroma Upscaling to Jinc3 but have dropped to Spline3 which has reduced no. of instances of the buffer dropping to 0 - but not totally eliminated it

CPU is a E7400 overclocked to about 3.5

GPU is a ATI 5670 overclocked to about 900 core, 512MB GDDR5 VRAM

I'm guessing although the CPU is not great - that its the GPU that is not coping ?

I have "smooth motion" enabled, as MadVR seems to do a better job than my TV does with native 24

thanks for any help

thanks for suggestions - it seems it was the Chroma Upsampling that was bogging down my 5670

Bicubic Soft is just about ok for most content without dropping frames

seems perhaps I need a new GPU at some point :)

[ryrynz]

Planning a Haswell notebook, is this a madvr related issue or Intels fault?

I would say Intel's as I havent seen MadVR having issues like this with anything else. Haswell's 4600 will likely have the same issues I'm experiencing on the 4000.

The latest drivers also cause some serious juddering with smooth motion enabled. It's likely Madshi knows about this owning an 4000 himself, but he's been a little quiet (hopefully working on a new version of MadVR)
We'll have to wait for him to comment about it.

[kiccolsd]

MadVR is glitchy with the new 3xxx Intel drivers on HD4000, I suggest reverting to the 29xx series if you want MadVR to play nice.

Hi man, thx for your reply. Can you advice me a working release of those drivers? Maybe 15.28.12 2963??

I would also tank Madshi for his work... thx!!

[petran79]

righty, but you didn't answer any of my questions :o

Is the refresh rate properly detected? Is the problem still there with the old rendering path?

:thanks:



no problem whatsoever regarding refresh rate.

To be frank, after that mediocre performance I was discouraged and didnt use Windows XP for media playback for months.

yesterday I upgraded some containers and Nvidia XP drivers and tried it again.

now with the latest versions of Potplayer, LAV and MadVR, performance improved quite a bit, with frame drops reduced by a great margin. Unfortunately there are still dropped frames when using 10-bit videos and Jinc 3. Something not happening in Windows 7. But at least other videos are now playable

[leeperry]

with the latest versions of Potplayer, LAV and MadVR, performance improved quite a bit, with frame drops reduced by a great margin. Unfortunately there are still dropped frames when using 10-bit videos and Jinc 3. Something not happening in Windows 7. But at least other videos are now playable
OK, sounds good! and what about the old rendering path? the new one randomly hiccups for me when OTOH the old one has always worked flawlessly :)

[Portioli]

@6233638 (and any other scaling maniac :P)

I just assembled an htpc for a friend that has the most awfull collection of avi & divx ever seen.
Right now i use MN for chroma, Softcubic80 for luma.
Any better recommendation for such material.
My main goal is to hide compression artifacts.

[rahzel]

Hi man, thx for your reply. Can you advice me a working release of those drivers? Maybe 15.28.12 2963??

I would also tank Madshi for his work... thx!!
Previous driver should work.

[ryrynz]

For anyone interested in a desktop Haswell I just just came across this info. Intel is doing a 4770R desktop part that includes the Iris Pro 5200 graphics that includes 128MB eDRAM for 3x the performance of the HD 4000. It's BGA of course with a 65W TDP.

Compared to the 4770S it's CPU is clocked 100MHz faster and it's GPU has double the execution units, which along with the 128MB eDRAM makes it around twice as fast as the HD 4600. I'm not sure how it maintains the same TDP as the 4770S but it's damn impressive.

Info at Ars Techina (http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/05/intels-iris-wants-to-change-how-you-feel-about-integrated-graphics/)

Want.

[wanezhiling]

4770R is for oem market, not my taste :p

[Buckster]

I have to say - big thanks to the developers of MadVR - as I'm finding the 24-60hz processing much better for motion etc than my internal 24hz processing on my TV

my TV is a Panasonic PF11 (pro-panel) - and it displays 24p as pure 24hz - should be pretty perfect - but for some reason the MadVR processed to 60 looks a lot better :)

[nekromantik]

What kind of Chroma upscale and Image upscale settings do you guys think is best for a Radeon 8730M gpu?

[ryrynz]

Use Niyawa's guide (http://i.imgur.com/HLv1qmj.png). Pick a combination that doesn't drop frames on the content you typically watch, I also recommend enabling Smooth Motion.

[nekromantik]

Use Niyawa's guide (http://i.imgur.com/HLv1qmj.png). Pick a combination that doesn't drop frames on the content you typically watch, I also recommend enabling Smooth Motion.

Thanks
SM is already on but I seem to get a lot more delay in rendering times in old path exclusive mode. In windowed mode FS I get around 25 - 30 ms rendering time using Softcubic 75 and Jinc3 but in exclusive mode it jumps to 115ms!

Mostly watch 720P H264 on a 1080P TV non anime.

[XRyche]

@6233638 (and any other scaling maniac :P)

I just assembled an htpc for a friend that has the most awfull collection of avi & divx ever seen.
Right now i use MN for chroma, Softcubic80 for luma.
Any better recommendation for such material.
My main goal is to hide compression artifacts.

I'm not a "scaling maniac" and this doesn't really relate to madVR, but try some of the "sharpen complex, deband and denoise" custom pixel shaders from janwillem32's (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=157634) "Video pixel shader pack". I use them myself with madVR for old TV rips and such and they do a stand-up job paired up with madVR.

[andybkma]

On Windows 7 64 bit does having Aero turned on or off effect the playback quality of mVR? I mean does it effect it (better or worse) with stuttering/delayed/dropped frames etc? Reason being I have always have had aero turned off now I am wondering if I am missing out on something. Thanks...

[petran79]

OK, sounds good! and what about the old rendering path? the new one randomly hiccups for me when OTOH the old one has always worked flawlessly :)

Sorry, i am not familiar with that term.

[maco07]

Sorry, i am not familiar with that term.

On the other hand?

[kiccolsd]

Previous driver should work.

Thx man for your help with drivers, i found you setting for Rendering-->Exclusive Mode and I'm going to copy those. One question the last one Flush & Wait, sleep and loop are the same?

[leeperry]

i am not familiar with that term.
In order to revert to the old rendering path, you need to uncheck "present several frames in advance" in the /rendering/exclusive mode settings/ tab and it would also help to check "use managed upload textures (XP only)" in the /rendering/general settings/ tab as that latter option would smoothen windowed/FS changes IME. I've tried the new rendering path on several occasion but it would very often hiccup right after skipping when OTOH the old one has always worked perfectly for me.

you also seem to imply that CUVID hardware acceleration in LAV would be part of the issue, so how about software decoding then?

some additional feedback would be greatly appreciated please if you got time to run more tests. :thanks:

[nekromantik]

Im kinda annoyed lol
This is a new laptop with Radeon 8730M but cant use that card for MadVR as in exclusive mode I get 5 times slower rendering then windowed mode! As its switchable graphivs only solution is to use HD4000 but with that I can only use Lanz3 and BiCubic 75 and I get around 30 - 35ms render for 720P to 1080P.

[yok833]

I am about to commit a bad thing :) ... But I have to do it... :

Madshi, are you close to release a new update or is there nothing to expect in the next couple of weeks ??

[artios]

On Windows 7 64 bit does having Aero turned on or off effect the playback quality of mVR? I mean does it effect it (better or worse) with stuttering/delayed/dropped frames etc? Reason being I have always have had aero turned off now I am wondering if I am missing out on something. Thanks...

There is an option

enable windowed overlay (Windows 7 and newer)

I noticed that with this option enabled, in some particular videos (many videos) when I press the Alt+Enter to enter full screen, the picture starts flashing and I need to close the player to stop the flashes.

This is the only thing that I noticed regarding Aero that has negative effect on playback.

[TheElix]

more feedback when it'll be sitting on my desk. As an additional appetizer, I can also state that it comes with 360Hz PWM flicker so motion blur shouldn't much of an issue in 60Hz :cool:Tell us already! Or else :D

[Incriminated]

Blanked for my stupity, sry.

[namaiki]

I believe that is version 9 vs the current version 86.1...

[Incriminated]

What do you mean. The install.bat only registeres one single file either 0.86.1 or 0.9: madVR.ax
So hitting uninstall.bat, extracting 0.9 over the 0.86.1, then hit install.bat is no "Vs".

PS: The bad thing that 0.9 doesn't work properly for me. The MadVR icon does no more appear in systray plus any video i try to watch via registered output module madVR is at extreme low framerate (1 frame every 6-7 seconds!!!). Made sure i un-/installed correctly with admin-rights and rebooted.

Switching back to 0.86.1 instantly works tough.

SO there's a reason this update is not officially announced.

[Incriminated]

Lol im stupid, now i know what you mean.
It is 0.9 (0.09) not v0.90. OMG, ignore me :D

[LigH]

You are not the first user who got caught by this trap; the same issue has been discussed a few times in the german doom9/Gleitz board too... :o

[paradoxical]

Lol im stupid, now i know what you mean.
It is 0.9 (0.09) not v0.90. OMG, ignore me :D

It's not 0.09 either. Version numbers are not arithmetic decimal numbers. And that can make it confusing if you don't understand the versioning scheme being used. :)

[DragonQ]

There's no reason to not use arithmetic decimal numbers though. Makes things simpler to use fixed version numbering in terms of how many digits there are.

[paradoxical]

There's no reason to not use arithmetic decimal numbers though. Makes things simpler to use fixed version numbering in terms of how many digits there are.

Sure there is. Versions numbers are not for doing arithmetic with. They are simply a way to show that you have made major/minor version changes. So simply going from counting from 1 to whatever is much better than having to format all your numbers with multiple padded out zeros just so it looks like a decimal number. Say for example I know I will possibly have 100 revisions between an alpha release and my 1.0. Why should I go 0.001, 0.002, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005, 0.006, 0.007, 0.008, 0.009, 0.010 instead of simply 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, 0.8, 0.9, 0.10, etc. The former way just seems silly to me since it's simply an incremented number showing your version as major.minor. It is not a decimal to do arithmetic with.

[leeperry]

Tell us already! Or else :D
Well I received it yesterday, and I'm sending it back today....talk about déjà vu :mad:

Here are three reviews: 1 (http://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2013/test-benq-bl2410pt-teil8.html) 2 (http://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/52537_7/Dognat_i_peregnat_IPS._Obzor_i_testirovanie_monitora_BenQ_BL2410PT.html) 3 (http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/monitors/1297303/benq-bl2410pt)

The PWM instantly hurt my eyes and gave me headaches, this youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKhDS7CHDPk) shows exactly how this *** flat-screen makes me feel :scared:

I also tried to force 100% brightness(in order to defeat PWM) and counterbalance from the PC (as this guy did (http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039698072&postcount=11)) but that didn't help at all.

I guess PC monitors makers have a lot to learn from those who make TV's huh....I previously tried a CCFL TV from Hitachi that made me see bright green RBE's but nothing more, even this cheapo TN TV didn't hurt my eyes at all: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00933LX5G

BenQ supposedly have a flicker-free monitor in the works, but I don't think I'll try it if it's like the BL2410PT at max brightness huh(and the contrast spec falls back from 5K:1 to 3K:1): http://www.benq.com/product/monitor/gw2760hs/

In order to remain OT, I would say that it's capped to 1080p@66.66Hz(due to the 165MHz pixel clock limitation of SL DVI, didn't have any DL DVI cable around) and FRC in mVR looked OK'ish, definitely not as smooth as 90Hz on a CRT though IMHO.

Apart from this, gamut and contrast were great, black was also the best I've seen on a LCD screen(even though it "glowed" and wasn't as solid as a CRT but it was really black!), the antiglare layer was a bit annoying due to its pearly appearance(the GW2760HS supposedly comes with a semi-glossy finish), the front panel buttons barely worked(thanks to a craptastic motion detection) and the pivot of the panel was a real pleasure to use. There was also a small round patch in the right bottom corner that looked slightly lighter on a light gray background, humm...I think the blue panel is FUBAR.

And anyway, all those PC monitors work internally in 8bit(and more often than not 6bit, as proven by their poor REC709 gamut coverage), that's really the stone age when all serious TV's work in 12bit and videoprojectors have been working in at least 10bit for over a decade.....oh well, someday I'll find a flat screen that'll make me happy, I'm a believer :p

[DragonQ]

Sure there is. Versions numbers are not for doing arithmetic with. They are simply a way to show that you have made major/minor version changes. So simply going from counting from 1 to whatever is much better than having to format all your numbers with multiple padded out zeros just so it looks like a decimal number. Say for example I know I will possibly have 100 revisions between an alpha release and my 1.0. Why should I go 0.001, 0.002, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005, 0.006, 0.007, 0.008, 0.009, 0.010 instead of simply 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, 0.8, 0.9, 0.10, etc. The former way just seems silly to me since it's simply an incremented number showing your version as major.minor. It is not a decimal to do arithmetic with.
You can do 100 revisions with 1.01, 1.02, etc. How is that unreasonable? The other option of course is to use more than one decimal point; it's more obvious that 1.1.0 is larger than 1.0.2 than 1.10 being larger than 1.2.