madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Telion]

trying various algorithms and combinations on actual video content I'm planning to watch, and getting the best bang for the buck in terms of quality-vs.-resource usage (render and queue stats, mostly)
LOL, but you're definitely not a casual user, you even know what are chroma and luma. A typical casual user usually doesn't bother to change settings at all (let alone understand their meaning), or just once blindly sets them according to some random guide found on the net. He also believes there are some magical "best" settings for everyone (or at least for a high-end rig) and assumes they are mostly the ones obtained out of the box. And he definitely won't visit a software's discussion board except when he runs into some problems.

[Damien147]

Now that you mentioned dxva(native) I get black screen when playing P010(<--is this correct way to say it?) movies but cb also sometimes gives me slowdown/jerky playback.I guess hardware decoder set to none will work for me.

[BluesFanUK]

Think I asked this before, but can't find the answer. What's the point in using LAV filters with MadVR? Is it only beneficial to slow PC'/GPU's or does it improve performance regardless of hardware?

[huhn]

lavfilter is giving madVR as many file information as possible.
it is using FFmpeg and is as fast as most other ffmpeg based decoder.

internal filters of player is the only alternative i can think of for lavfilter.

[BluesFanUK]

lavfilter is giving madVR as many file information as possible.
it is using FFmpeg and is as fast as most other ffmpeg based decoder.

internal filters of player is the only alternative i can think of for lavfilter.

So do I need to use it if i'm using Potplayer or MPC-HC?

[iSeries]

Hi guys,

I'd really appreciate some help in figuring out why I don't get a seek bar with windowed/fullscreen overlay. If I switch to exclusive mode, the seek bar is there. Switch back to overlay, no seek bar. Does anyone have any ideas?

[huhn]

which seek bar are you talking about?

[iSeries]

The seek bar which allows navigating through the film - move mouse to bottom of screen, seek bar should appear

[Asmodian]

Hi guys,

I'd really appreciate some help in figuring out why I don't get a seek bar with windowed/fullscreen overlay. If I switch to exclusive mode, the seek bar is there. Switch back to overlay, no seek bar. Does anyone have any ideas?

I think the player needs to use madVR's API to draw the seek bar, I know Zoom Player draws its UI through madVR so the bars (edit: and all its UI elements) work with overlay and without kicking you out of FSE.

[iSeries]

I think the player needs to use madVR's API to draw the seek bar, I know Zoom Player draws it's UI through madVR so the bars work with overlay and without kicking you out of FSE.

So MadVR's own seekbar won't show with overlay? I'm using MPC-HC.

[huhn]

madVR has a fullscreen exclusive seek bar the rest is the work of the player.

[Neo-XP]

So MadVR's own seekbar won't show with overlay? I'm using MPC-HC.

I think you just need to tick "Show controls in fullscreen for" in MPC-HC, as in this screenshot :

https://s23.postimg.org/pbkbfc7pz/Fullscreen.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/pbkbfc7pz/)

And put "0" below, so the seekbar will only appear if you move the mouse at the bottom of the screen.

madVR's own seekbar only shows in exclusive mode.

[har3inger]

There isn't HW decoding for 10 bit stuff yet. When you choose DXVA decoding, it should fall back to regular software decoding.

In general for madvr, if you're struggling with scaling algorithms being too slow, your best bet is to use software decoding only to move load from GPU to CPU. Additionally, many GPUs get locked to a lower clock when doing video decoding by the driver.

If you care about power consumption/noise, you probably shouldn't be using the fancier madvr algorithms anyway.

[StinDaWg]

So do I need to use it if i'm using Potplayer or MPC-HC?
LAV is already built into MPC-HC...

It's already used by default when you play a video.

[Georgel]

What you notice is simply low frame rate video but there is another issue caused by frame time mismatch.

With a 75 Hz display and 23.976 fps video each frame wants to be displayed for 41.71 ms but Vsync is every 13.3 ms. This means that most frames are displayed for 40 ms but every ~8 frames one frame is displayed for 53.3 ms. This isn't too bad, only 33% longer, you might not notice it but it isn't ideal.

The effect is worse at 60 Hz, with half the frames displayed for 33.3 ms and the other half displayed for 50 ms, 50% longer. This is quite visible (to me at least) as uneven choppiness or judder, even worse than normal low frame rate video.

Smooth motion allows madVR to display every frame for exactly 41.71ms. :)

edit: with 29.970 fps video on your 75 Hz display you get a similar effect to 23.976 fps video on a 60 Hz display. Half the frames are displayed for 26.67 ms and the other half for 40 ms, 50% longer.

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation!

One reason or another I don't seem to notice it much, the low frame rate is much more noticeable to me, for example large objects moving fast across the screen make much more of a problem than frame rate, though I will give it a try and see if I can notice smooth motion effects.

For best quality when watching, using Edge thinning with upscaling refinement and using 200% scaling will yield much better and cleaner results than using edge thinning from image enhancements. Seems that it works on a finer level of detail and distorts considerably less when edge thinning comes from upscaling refinement, at least in my tests so far.

Also, seems that lately I prefer using edge thinning at a bit less agressive numbers than in my first tests, right now I'm still looking for the best balance between the sharpness or effect and the amount of distortion added.

Sometimes the distortion either isn't there or it's really okay, while other times it's noticeable, for example on really low resolution videos.

DXVA 2 Native should NEVER be used with madvr.

This should be held on sticky somewhere, and MPC should stop defaulting it to DXVA native when installing.

[mandarynek82]

madVR has a lot of options. I don't know which parameters are best for gtx 1070. I would like to get a smooth image without macroblocks and artifacts. As close as possible to the original.

[Asmodian]

madVR has a lot of options. I don't know which parameters are best for gtx 1070. I would like to get a smooth image without macroblocks and artifacts. As close as possible to the original.

madVR doesn't have any options meant to remove macroblocks but you can enable reduce banding artifacts and/or reduce ringing artifacts if those are an issue in your source.

[Neo-XP]

Strangely, NGU-High (former NGU-Med) is a lot sharper in v0.91.1 VS v0.91.4 :

https://s30.postimg.org/j9854r33x/v0_91_1.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/j9854r33x/) https://s30.postimg.org/4raxwrbst/v0_91_4.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/4raxwrbst/)

Zoomed :

https://s28.postimg.org/6cpr59a89/v0_91_1.png (https://postimg.org/image/6cpr59a89/) https://s28.postimg.org/5bu3tvimh/v0_91_4.png (https://postimg.org/image/5bu3tvimh/)

All the other settings were exactly the same.
Is that normal @madshi ? Did you tone down NGU because some users found it too sharp ?

[ryrynz]

Strangely...

Probably related to this change.


v0.91.2:
* small quality improvement for NGU-Med/High (former NGU-Low/Med)

[70MM]

Im using the 1080 card with madvr...
In the 1080 settings under "Adjust Desktop Color Settings" there is a dropdown box "content type reported to display" If I set it to (Auto-select (recommended) the image has terrible banding, if I set it to "Full screen videos" the image as NO banding and the blacks are more enhanced. The only problem is sometimes when i turn on the PC it has reverted back to Auto-select and Im back to the banding. Even though I save the setting why would it revert back? I only use this card and PC in my HT.

What do others have this setting selected to?

[70MM]

Another setting Im not sure about...
On the 1080 card there is a setting for PhysX and in the dropdown box it states "Processor" - Auto - Geforce GTX 1080 or CPU, what should I set it to?
I dont even know what the setting is for????

[Warner306]

Another setting Im not sure about...
On the 1080 card there is a setting for PhysX and in the dropdown box it states "Processor" - Auto - Geforce GTX 1080 or CPU, what should I set it to?
I dont even know what the setting is for????

PhysX isn't important. You can disable it.

[Warner306]

Im using the 1080 card with madvr...
In the 1080 settings under "Adjust Desktop Color Settings" there is a dropdown box "content type reported to display" If I set it to (Auto-select (recommended) the image has terrible banding, if I set it to "Full screen videos" the image as NO banding and the blacks are more enhanced. The only problem is sometimes when i turn on the PC it has reverted back to Auto-select and Im back to the banding. Even though I save the setting why would it revert back? I only use this card and PC in my HT.

What do others have this setting selected to?

Settings will revert after driver updates. It might be easier if you post an image of the screen you're referring to. I have output set to 8 bpc and Full range.

[70MM]

Settings will revert after driver updates. It might be easier if you post an image of the screen you're referring to. I have output set to 8 bpc and Full range.
I also have my settings at 8 bpc, Full, RGB and 32bit.
Do you have the tab named "Content type reported to display" under adjust desktop color settings?

Maybe this setting isnt on all cards???

[arrgh]

I have the same Problem with mvc-mkv...I tried xysubfilter but also the MPC-BE internal filters. Both times, with "Stereoskopic Subtitles disabled" and enabled as "side by side" I get the Subs in the Display plane...
...
I would be ok with an user-adjusted Option...I'm not talking about the "original Settings in the mpls"...


Hello,

Either I am doing something totally wrong or things are not supposed to work the way I expect them to.

I ripped countless of times my Avatar 3D BluRay disc with latest MakeMKV v1.10.2 and yet the 3D subtitles are not working properly, for that matter they are not working properly even when I directly play the movie from my disc.

The 3D effects of the movie most of the time cut through the subtitles, and it doesn't matter which subtitle language I am using.

I am using latest madVR build + latest LAV, I tried with both xySubFilter and with MPC-HC internal subtitle engine.

I remember a couple of months ago madshi mentioned that 3D subtitles are supposed to work with xySubFilter.
...
So am I the only one with this issue?...

You are not alone. I've had the same problem since the day one when I started usind madVR+LAV with 3d movies. Movie is fine but subtitles are in wrong depth. I've also tried different subtitle engines, original BluRay discs etc. but with no luck. :(

I just wanted to bring this issue up again;
I was under the Impression that MakeMKV derived MVC-3D-mkv files are displayed correctly...with xySubFilter also the Subs. MakeMKV is keeping the 3D-plane info "somehow". If I'm not wrong, that's done in the global tags. If one pulls out the global tags out of such a MVC mkv file one gets a *.xml file containing the 3D-depth per subtitle stream (see attached file, which I renamed to *.txt; I have shortened it...).
Is that the needed/sufficient info? Is the Format correct? Does it work for any subtitle type, or only for PGS?
Or are those affected by this issue just doing something wrong?

It would be nice to see here some Progress, after all the Problem is around now for quit some time.

Thanks in advance.

[Warner306]

I also have my settings at 8 bpc, Full, RGB and 32bit.
Do you have the tab named "Content type reported to display" under adjust desktop color settings?

Maybe this setting isnt on all cards???

Can you post an image?

[70MM]

Can you post an image?
Here you go....
resolution is set the same as yours I believe.
As long as I have Content type reported by display set to Full screen videos i have no banding. On auto I get banding.

[Neo-XP]

Probably related to this change.

That was it ! because there is no difference when I test NGU-veryHigh on both versions.

I'm not certain that it is an improvement though. It sure hides the artifacts better, but it is really soft.

NGU-veryHigh on the other hand is extremely impressive : razor-sharp with practically no visible artifacts. I don't how madshi managed to do that, it is almost magical :eek:

[Warner306]

Here you go....
resolution is set the same as yours I believe.
As long as I have Content type reported by display set to Full screen videos i have no banding. On auto I get banding.

It all looks good to me. I don't know what is wrong.

[70MM]

It all looks good to me. I don't know what is wrong.

Do you have Content type reported by display set to Full screen video?

I just wish mine would lock onto this as when it changes back to auto I get banding.

[Neo-XP]

@madshi Do you plan to enable the "add grain" enhancement for other image doublers than NGU in the next version ?

It is a really neat feature which subjectively increase the details of the image when upscaling SD content to FHD or 4K. I would like to use it with super-xbr.

Did you write the code yourself or is it a script/shader that you can share ? :script:

[cokeefe]

I'll be brief since I know this isn't the RX 480 support thread. :sly:

I was the one having blank screens and HDMI loss of handshake with MadVR on the RX480, mostly when it was under stress. Tried a clean reinstall of windows, several driver versions, etc. I also upgraded the 6-year-old 500W power supply to a new Seasonic unit in case the power delivery was off. Very disappointing because the card was bought specifically for MadVR and nothing else.

On further research, it seems these cards pull a ton of power from the PCI bus traces and some motherboards aren't up to it. I have an older Sandy Bridge MSI Z68 chipset board (PCIE2) with a 2500K processor and believe the board has trouble with this power draw.

At any rate, along with the new PSU and enabling the new ReLive driver's power saving fix (which apparently decreases PCIE power draw and increases draw from the 8 pin socket) MadVR has been flawless for several days.

I believe the reason these reports of problems with the RX 480 are so persistent for some, non-existent for others, and yet so hard to diagnose, revolves around this PCIE draw, and the multitude of motherboards out there.

I can now run NGU Med, upscaling 720p to 4K with DX11 fullscreen exclusive and default queue sizes with no drops. Fantastic!

Madshi, thank you again for your work. NGU is the best thing that's happened to my HTPC in quite some time.

[Neo-XP]

Is the anti-bloating gone for good for super-xbr doubling ? I use it at only 25% and it does a pretty good job in reducing ringing and dark halos.

[Oguignant]

Hi,

I use this setting for HDMI 2.0 to my TV LG OLED.

NV control panel.
(adjust desktop color settings)
digital color formet = YCbCr444
content type reported to display = full screen videos.
(adjust video color settings)
Video settings = Let player control.

LAV video decoder.
(output formats)
All (without) AYUV
(rgb output levels)
untouched.

madVR
(display properties)
RGB output levels = PC levels (0-255)
Display Bitdepth = 10 bit or higher

Are these options correct? Or is it better to use RGB for NV Control Panel and TV Levels on MadVr Display properties?

I always thought that as the source is YCbCr, It was best to use YCbCr444...

Thank you!

[fedpul]

Hi,

I use this setting for HDMI 2.0 to my TV LG OLED.

NV control panel.
(adjust desktop color settings)
digital color formet = YCbCr444
content type reported to display = full screen videos.
(adjust video color settings)
Video settings = Let player control.

LAV video decoder.
(output formats)
All (without) AYUV
(rgb output levels)
untouched.

madVR
(display properties)
RGB output levels = PC levels (0-255)
Display Bitdepth = 10 bit or higher

Are these options correct? Or is it better to use RGB for NV Control Panel and TV Levels on MadVr Display properties?

I always thought that as the source is YCbCr, It was best to use YCbCr444...

Thank you!
Hi, you should set RGB in NV Control Panel. And the selection of TV Levels vs PC Levels depends on what you have set in NV Control Panel. I use the full chain in RGB full because I also use the TV as a PC monitor.

Enviado desde mi MI 4LTE mediante Tapatalk

[Oguignant]

Hi, you should set RGB in NV Control Panel. And the selection of TV Levels vs PC Levels depends on what you have set in NV Control Panel. I use the full chain in RGB full because I also use the TV as a PC monitor.

Enviado desde mi MI 4LTE mediante Tapatalk

Yes, that's what they told me. But, is not it better to use ycbcr 444? I do not use it for games, just for movies. why it is better rgb? if the movies are ycbcr...

[Shiandow]

Yes, that's what they told me. But, is not it better to use ycbcr 444? I do not use it for games, just for movies. why it is better rgb? if the movies are ycbcr...

The screen can only display RGB (it has to, YCbCr isn't physically possible), so if you output RGB you can let MadVR do all the colour processing. Otherwise you just have to hope the TV handles the conversion from YCbCr to RGB correctly.

[Oguignant]

The screen can only display RGB (it has to, YCbCr isn't physically possible), so if you output RGB you can let MadVR do all the colour processing. Otherwise you just have to hope the TV handles the conversion from YCbCr to RGB correctly.

I do not see any difference in colors using rgb or YCbCr444... I think it does the conversion correctkt. Watch these screen shot, they are with the LG app, capture the TV screen as I see it.

You see any difference?

RGB
http://i.imgur.com/isoW642h.jpg

YCbCr444
http://i.imgur.com/83pFnibh.jpg

[Shiandow]

There are some differences (try switching back and forth between the two images, focus on the red areas). Hard to tell which is better at this point (especially from such small images), but my money is on MadVR.

[Oguignant]

There are some differences (try switching back and forth between the two images, focus on the red areas). Hard to tell which is better at this point (especially from such small images), but my money is on MadVR.

Try whit direct link

http://i.imgur.com/83pFnib.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/isoW642.jpg

[Oguignant]

There are some differences (try switching back and forth between the two images, focus on the red areas). Hard to tell which is better at this point (especially from such small images), but my money is on MadVR.

Anyway, I'll start using rgb / full. The color setting is the same on my tv.

In Lav video decoder settings, RGB output levels: untouched or PC Levels 0-255?

[Shiandow]

You can leave LAV's output levels on 'untouched', although as far as I know LAV shouldn't ever have to pass through TV-level RGB to MadVR anyway.

[Oguignant]

You can leave LAV's output levels on 'untouched', although as far as I know LAV shouldn't ever have to pass through TV-level RGB to MadVR anyway.

Well, I'll start using rgb from now on.

[Asmodian]

Well, I'll start using rgb from now on.

I just want to add that madVR always outputs RGB so if you set YCbCr output the GPU does a conversion and then the display convets it to RGB again.

[Oguignant]

I just want to add that madVR always outputs RGB so if you set YCbCr output the GPU does a conversion and then the display convets it to RGB again.

TV always convert any signal to RGB? When I watch a bluray by hdmi also the signal is converted to RGB too?

[Shiandow]

TV always convert any signal to RGB? When I watch a bluray by hdmi also the signal is converted to RGB too?

Somewhere along the line, yeah. In the end the TV only has red blue and green pixels. It's not actually physically possible to display YCbCr.

[Oguignant]

Somewhere along the line, yeah. In the end the TV only has red blue and green pixels. It's not actually physically possible to display YCbCr.

I always use ycbcr because I thought it gave better colors and contrast with yellow, cyan and magenta compared to red, green and blue...

And as madvr said that nv12 8bits 4.2.0 , I thought that was the output format ...

My TV has RGBA subpixel, does anyone know what it is?

[Q-the-STORM]

Oguignant: in madVR set PC Levels
in nvidia set RGB full range
in LG set Black Level to high, HDMI input icon to PC and HDMI Ultra HD Colour to On...
that will give you the least amount of conversions and all conversions will be done by madVR and not nvidia or LG...

[Oguignant]

Oguignant: in madVR set PC Levels
in nvidia set RGB full range
in LG set Black Level to high, HDMI input icon to PC and HDMI Ultra HD Colour to On...
that will give you the least amount of conversions and all conversions will be done by madVR and not nvidia or LG...

@Q-the-STORM I understood. it is exactly how I have my Tv and madvr settings. It is logical to use RGB, because madvr does the conversion to RGB.
But, I really do not see a difference using RGB or ycbcr444. I compared many movies and I can not perceive differences in colors, black or shadows. In fact, I use the same color calibrations in both.

I thought rgb was used with PC monitors and ycbcr444 was for Tv.

[e-t172]

TV always convert any signal to RGB? When I watch a bluray by hdmi also the signal is converted to RGB too?

A Blu-ray player will typically output YCbCr (directly from the decoded video stream) over HDMI. The TV does the YCbCr → RGB conversion.

Internally, a PC GPU works in RGB only. A PC will typically output RGB over HDMI. The TV just passes its through (hopefully) untouched.

If you enable YCbCr output in your GPU driver settings, the GPU will output YCbCr over HDMI. But internally, it still works in RGB. So what's going to happen is that the GPU will internally convert RGB to YCbCr, then send it over HDMI, then the TV will convert YCbCr back to RGB. The double conversion is pointless, and is likely to degrade quality (especially if there's chroma subsampling going on, or the PC and the TV disagree about which matrix to use).

Putting it all together, here's what happens when using madVR:

GPU driver configured to output RGB: LAV decoder output (YCbCr) → madVR (converts from YCbCr to RGB) → HDMI output (RGB) → TV (RGB)

GPU driver configured to output YCbCr: LAV decoder output (YCbCr) → madVR (converts from YCbCr to RGB) → HDMI output (converts from RGB to YCbCr) → TV (converts from YCbCr to RGB)

Hopefully you can see now that the second configuration doesn't make a ton of sense!