madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[XMonarchY]

Stick with Windows 10 1607-14393 - it's the perfect Windows for video playback with madVR with overlay-free true fullscreen support.

[Oguignant]

About Madvr v0.92.14

Hello. One question, I just see this: (NV HDR) after the Display Hz. What does it mean?

Another thing, in "Windows mode" or "Full screen" with D3D11 always appears in 8 bits, only when I use "exclusive mode" it changes to 10 bits. Before in "full screen without exclusive mode" appeared 10 bits. Why now only 8 bits appear?

Thks in advance!!!

https://i.imgur.com/2zY9sA1l.png

[Asmodian]

Haha, it seems like this question happens at least once a page now. :p

It is a bug in a feature that was implemented in 92.13 to prevent sending 10 bit HDR video to Nvidia's drivers, madVR only outputs 8 bit with both SDR and HDR but the issue with 10 bit banding only happens when using fullscreen windowed with Nvidia's HDR mode.

I just see this: (NV HDR) after the Display Hz. What does it mean?

It means madVR is using Nvidia's API to render HDR video.

[Oguignant]

It means madVR is using Nvidia's API to render HDR video.

hi Asmodian! a pleasure read your message.

I see. I always use this API? I mean, in previous versions too? Before, this message did not appear to me. I have the "HDR content to the display" and "send HDR metadata to the display" options activated. And the HDR is activated in my LG OLED

About the first question: hehehe yes, I published my question without reading the previous messages. My mistake.

[Asmodian]

Yes, it used to use this API but there was no message about it in the OSD. It could also use the AMD API or indicate the Windows HDR mode was on. Now madVR tells us what it is doing. :)

Edit: The first versions of madVR that supported HDR only used the Windows API but madshi added support for the other APIs a few versions ago, before the OSD message about them.

[suanm]

Why can't madVR process correctively 4k UHD video in input format 4:4:4 10bit after decoding with lav decoder ?
I use the lav as a decoder and the output format is Y410 4:4:4 10bit. When i play 4k UHD video with madVR,the frames drop too many.However,after i switch Y410 4:4:4 10bit to P010 4:2:0 10bit,the playback of 4K UHD video is normal as usual.
Y410 4:4:4 10bit doesn't work out with madVR ?

[Betroz]

Hmm, good point. I checked the repository of old versions (https://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR/old-versions#download) and the last version in which the queues fill is v0.91.5. In v0.91.6 and newer the queues no longer fill.

However, even in v0.91.5 the queues only fill up to 5-7/15 for me. I'm also fairly sure the regression itself is caused by the update to Windows 10, even if older versions of madVR managed to avoid it.

Edit: Aha, NGU seems to be the culprit somehow. v0.91.6 introduced NGU Anti-Alias (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1799592#post1799592), which I was using for chroma upscaling. If I enable NGU for chroma upscaling in v0.91.5 the queues stop filling, even if I select the "low" quality option which gives me an average rendering time of 4.5ms.

Edit2: Yes, going back to v0.92.14 if I set chroma upscaling to Bicubic60 I get 5-7/15 like in v0.91.5. If I use super-xbr I get 2-4/15 (even though the rendering time is practically unchanged at 3.5ms) and if I select NGU I get 0-2/15 and it starts dropping frames. Is it running into some sort of windowed mode GPU memory usage limit or something??

Yes that matches my findings aswell. Something seems to be wrong with NGU in combination with the 1803 update to Win10.

[Betroz]

Stick with Windows 10 1607-14393 - it's the perfect Windows for video playback with madVR with overlay-free true fullscreen support.

That version of Win10 is probably not secure anymore? Have you blocked Windows Update then? Win 8.1 with latest updates would be better for MadVr then I think.

[huhn]

secure?
are generally ok with an 6 month old build most most stuff like spectre are totally meaning less for personal user.
and what do they even want to steal for your HTPC anyway?

Why can't madVR process correctively 4k UHD video in input format 4:4:4 10bit after decoding with lav decoder ?
I use the lav as a decoder and the output format is Y410 4:4:4 10bit. When i play 4k UHD video with madVR,the frames drop too many.However,after i switch Y410 4:4:4 10bit to P010 4:2:0 10bit,the playback of 4K UHD video is normal as usual.
Y410 4:4:4 10bit doesn't work out with madVR ?
lavfilter doesn't decode 4:4:4 out of blu rays it's 4:2:0.
so if you want lavfilter to send 4.4:4 from BD UBD sources for what ever reason it has to upscale that with the CPU in not the best quality and it not cheap at all.

[Grimsdyke]

hello, anyone noticed reduced average rendering time with the new windows 10 update?
in files where i got ~10ms now i get ~5ms. playback is perfect as always.
am i the only one? i didnt find any mention in the last 10 pages.

Performance indeed seem to have been improved. I got render times now ~ 2 ms faster than before the update !!

[suanm]

lavfilter doesn't decode 4:4:4 out of blu rays it's 4:2:0.
so if you want lavfilter to send 4.4:4 from BD UBD sources for what ever reason it has to upscale that with the CPU in not the best quality and it not cheap at all.
Got it,thank you

[svengun]

About Madvr v0.92.14

Hello. One question, I just see this: (NV HDR) after the Display Hz. What does it mean?

Another thing, in "Windows mode" or "Full screen" with D3D11 always appears in 8 bits, only when I use "exclusive mode" it changes to 10 bits. Before in "full screen without exclusive mode" appeared 10 bits. Why now only 8 bits appear?

Thks in advance!!!

https://i.imgur.com/2zY9sA1l.png

Read back a few pages , everybody has this

[huhn]

i'm really buffed that people notice the number 10 is now a 8 and not the banding it was producing...

[cyberscott]

You can use HDR in PC mode but, on the C7 at least, the gamut coverage is much worse. Home theater or similar offers better HDR rendering but also uses 4:2:2 color subsampling. :(
One reason I’m looking forward to HDMI 2.1 displays and graphic cards. This would eliminate the bandwidth issue with HDMI 2.0. Just imagine being able to use madVR at full 4K at 60Hz or more, with full 4:4:4 color subsampling and HDR! :D

[huhn]

but hdmi 2.0 can do RGB 60 HZ UHD and HDR.

[strumf666]

Not at 12 bits?

[Manni]

i'm really buffed that people notice the number 10 is now a 8 and not the banding it was producing...

There was banding only in passthrough, only in fullscreen windowed mode, only in Windows 10, and it was very minor. So not that surprising.

People are noticing the number 8 because in most cases, there was NO banding in 10bits, but they now have (momentarily until it's restored) lost that feature, so it's very understandable they notice the unnecessary limitation and didn't notice anything before, when everything was working fine with no banding at all (or very minor one if win10 FSW passthrough).

[Clown shoes]

Not off topic but certainly not something I've seen discussed here is finding an alternative way to call MadVRs stats (ctrl J)

Like many of you I presume, I am using a HTPC in my living room with a harmony hub and remote. I have a keyboard and mouse but I'd rather not have to use them if possible.

I've tried using WScript send keys inside a VBS script (as below) and adding it as a shortcut on my taskbar. I then map a button on my remote to activate the second shortcut on my taskbar, however for some reason it just doesn't want to work :(

Set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
WshShell.SendKeys "^j"

I was wondering if anyone else had thought of a clever way to call the stats up, without having to resort to keyboard and mouse?

[Warner306]

Not off topic but certainly not something I've seen discussed here is finding an alternative way to call MadVRs stats (ctrl J)

Like many of you I presume, I am using a HTPC in my living room with a harmony hub and remote. I have a keyboard and mouse but I'd rather not have to use them if possible.

I've tried using WScript send keys inside a VBS script (as below) and adding it as a shortcut on my taskbar. I then map a button on my remote to activate the second shortcut on my taskbar, however for some reason it just doesn't want to work :(

Set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
WshShell.SendKeys "^j"

I was wondering if anyone else had thought of a clever way to call the stats up, without having to resort to keyboard and mouse?

If you can map keyboard commands to your Harmony remote, it should be easy. You can change the shortcut in madVR to anything you want. You may even be able to push a button on your remote if madVR recognizes it, but I think it has to be a keyboard combination of some sort.

I use MCE Keyboard as the profile and Windows Media Center SE. Bluetooth keyboard would also work.

[Warner306]

I keep hearing about MadVR, but have no idea how to use it, can someone ELI5 please & thank you..?!

- Download madVR from the first page. Unzip it to any directory and run the install.bat.

- Install a media player such as MPC-BE or MPC-HC. Select madVR as the video renderer form its options menu and configure the internal filters (splitter, video and audio).

- Play a video and access the madVR control panel with Ctrl + S.

From there, you can experiment with various settings in madVR as you wish.

For more information on madVR's settings, visit this guide (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787). There is also a guide linked in my signature.

[Warner306]

Nope, still busted with 397.55.
madVR gives this error when trying to apply custom timings.

I'm assuming you did, but did you make sure you selected a different refresh rate than the one you are trying to customize (e.g. anything besides 23hz?).

[brazen1]

I added Windows Media Center SE as a device to my HTPC activity. I changed Ctrl + J to Ctrl + Z in madVR. I added a soft button to my Harmony 900 mapping the Windows Media Center SE/Ctrl + Z command and pressing it toggles stats off and on.

[tyrindor]

I reported this when Windows 10 1803 was still an insider build but it seems it's still an issue.

I have upgraded two computers to Windows 10 1803 and both of them now have an issue where the video freezes for about 2-5 seconds whenever entering exclusive fullscreen mode. Downgrading back to the previous version of Windows 10 fixes it on both computers.

Titan XP, latest NVIDIA drivers/MadVR/MPC-BE. Default settings everywhere for testing.

[Clown shoes]

If you can map keyboard commands to your Harmony remote, it should be easy. You can change the shortcut in madVR to anything you want. You may even be able to push a button on your remote if madVR recognizes it, but I think it has to be a keyboard combination of some sort.

I use MCE Keyboard as the profile and Windows Media Center SE. Bluetooth keyboard would also work.

I added Windows Media Center SE as a device to my HTPC activity. I changed Ctrl + J to Ctrl + Z in madVR. I added a soft button to my Harmony 900 mapping the Windows Media Center SE/Ctrl + Z command and pressing it toggles stats off and on.

Cheers fellas,

Strangely I just can't get it working!

I have the Harmony 950 and I have Media Center SE added as a device. I've tried Ctrl + J and like brazen1 I have tried changing that to Ctrl + Z, adding either to one of the hard buttons on my remote.

I can't think what might be preventing it from working.

[brazen1]

What happens if you press that key combo on your keyboard? The Harmony should mimic it exactly. Try adding as a soft button.

[Clown shoes]

What happens if you press that key combo on your keyboard? The Harmony should mimic it exactly. Try adding as a soft button.

Well that's the weird bit; the keyboard combo works as expected.

I've tried as software buttons as well but same result. It's all very odd!

[brazen1]

You may have added Media Center SE as a device incorrect or something? If you call up the device 'Media Center SE', do any of the softkey functions for it work? Alt + F4 for example on a desktop window or mouse curser movement. Just seeing if it has any function. Beyond this, I've no idea?

[tzr916]

Is there any problem in running different installs of madVR on one machine?

I noticed that Zoom Player downloads/installs it's own madVR, then Jriver MC does the same (Jriver actually discourages trying to use the latest available in MC). Each install does have their own directory and settings.bin. So are there registry settings or other conflicts?

What about LAV? Similar situation....

[zaemon]

Is there any problem in running different installs of madVR on one machine?

I noticed that Zoom Player downloads/installs it's own madVR, then Jriver MC does the same (Jriver actually discourages trying to use the latest available in MC). Each install does have their own directory and settings.bin. So are there registry settings or other conflicts?

What about LAV? Similar situation....



I think you cannot have two instances of madVR.

[tzr916]

I think you cannot have two instances of madVR.

But I do.

Zoom Player installs (the latest) madVR in Program Files(x86).
Jriver installs (an approved version of) madVR in User/AppData/Roaming/Jriver/Plugins.

They both run fine, AFAIK.

[brazen1]

I'm pretty sure you can run two different instances of LAV also. Why not try your two different versions of madVR with your two different players and see what each shows as a version in the Windows notification area on your taskbar. Press Ctrl + S during playback from each player and see what version of madVR it displays.

[tzr916]

Yes, they both show different versions, when playing from each player. And they both have their own settings.bin.

[brazen1]

Hmmmm? I usually dial back my madVR settings to accommodate all videos that fall within certain profiles. I don't want to tailor madVR or anything else based on the variances in titles other than what profiles already offer. For instance, one 1080p title can use some very high settings. Another 1080p needs the settings dialed back. There is nothing a profile would distinguish differently between the two titles. One is just more resource intensive than the other. Perhaps I could use one version of madVR with settings appropriate for one title using MPC-BE, and another version of madVR for the other more intensive titles using MPC-HC for example? I can call up as many different players in my front end (KODI) as I desire to add. Presently I'm using 5 different players default assigned where each shines best.

MPC players only allow to select which renderer, not versions of the same renderer. This could pose a problem. madVR versions would need to be added in front end software unless someone knows how to associate madVR versions with players. This could be a wild goose chase. Only want to use one front end.

One example that would work appears to use ZoomPlayer with one madVR version and MPC with another. I may give this a try....

[stefanelli73]

After installing a NVIDIA GTX 1080 and tired of the constant bugs of the various drivers, I reassembled my "old" AMD RX480 and the first thing I noticed that even with version 92.14 I had 10bit and not 8bit, so the "problem" it exists only for NVIDIA.

[brazen1]

Yes, we know. Nvidia does not offer RGB 10bit. Never has. Only 8 and 12. Just use 8bit until maybe one day they decide to get around to it unless your display handles 12bit perfectly..... yawn.

[Asmodian]

There was banding only in passthrough, only in fullscreen windowed mode, only in Windows 10, and it was very minor. So not that surprising.

People are noticing the number 8 because in most cases, there was NO banding in 10bits, but they now have (momentarily until it's restored) lost that feature, so it's very understandable they notice the unnecessary limitation and didn't notice anything before, when everything was working fine with no banding at all (or very minor one if win10 FSW passthrough).

I think you missed huhn's point.

People are not noticing a change in image quality, they only notice the change in the number in the OSD. If madVR lied and said it was outputting 10 bit when it was really dithered 8 bit no one who is noticing this change now would have noticed.

You have to do very specific tests with dithering disabled to even be able to tell if it is 8 or 10 bit. I really do not understand why so many people are so obsessed with 10 or 12 bit output. We have people using 4:2:2 chroma subsampling because they want 12 bit. :scared:

I see why madshi didn't worry about 10 bit for so long, bit depth is massively overrated by the casual HTPC user.

Then you have displays like mine, which offer better image quality using 8 bits, and people still want to send them 10 bit. Even I have to recheck this fact every once in a while. :o

10 bit just seems like it should be much better, but it really isn't.

[huhn]

it get's really interesting if you check part used in TVs and see that nearly every high end TV is 8 bit.

[Clown shoes]

I think you missed huhn's point.

People are not noticing a change in image quality, they only notice the change in the number in the OSD. If madVR lied and said it was outputting 10 bit when it was really dithered 8 bit no one who is noticing this change now would have noticed.

You have to do very specific tests with dithering disabled to even be able to tell if it is 8 or 10 bit. I really do not understand why so many people are so obsessed with 10 or 12 bit output. We have people using 4:2:2 chroma subsampling because they want 12 bit. :scared:

I see why madshi didn't worry about 10 bit for so long, bit depth is massively overrated by the casual HTPC user.

Then you have displays like mine, which offer better image quality using 8 bits, and people still want to send them 10 bit. Even I have to recheck this fact every once in a while. :o

10 bit just seems like it should be much better, but it really isn't.

it get's really interesting if you check part used in TVs and see that nearly every high end TV is 8 bit.

This is a very good point and shows that sometimes people become so obsessed with the numbers that they forget to just sit back and enjoy watching their content :)

It does make me wonder though about a lot of the current high end sets that say they are 10 bit, but are actually 8bit + FRC, which as I understand it is dithering at the TV end. In this scenario are we best off sending 8bit from MadVR or 10 bit and above?

[ntropy]

If your brightness is at 30% then don't using the "500 nits" marketing as a data point, it is probably closer to 120-180 nits. It is 500 nits at 100% brightness (and nits is not linear with brightness).

I thought that "let madVR decide" would be the same as converting to SDR with your display, it converts to SDR with pixel shader math on SDR displays and does passthrough on HDR displays. That said maybe it does do something different, ignoring or overwriting bad metadata comes to mind from past discussion. We do know the paths are different, based on a recent bug that had an effect when set to convert to SDR with pixel shaders but not when using let madVR decide.

So I should turn the iMac display's brightness up to 100%? I tried it. It looked bright.

[Manni]

I think you missed huhn's point.

People are not noticing a change in image quality, they only notice the change in the number in the OSD. If madVR lied and said it was outputting 10 bit when it was really dithered 8 bit no one who is noticing this change now would have noticed.

You have to do very specific tests with dithering disabled to even be able to tell if it is 8 or 10 bit. I really do not understand why so many people are so obsessed with 10 or 12 bit output. We have people using 4:2:2 chroma subsampling because they want 12 bit. :scared:

I see why madshi didn't worry about 10 bit for so long, bit depth is massively overrated by the casual HTPC user.

Then you have displays like mine, which offer better image quality using 8 bits, and people still want to send them 10 bit. Even I have to recheck this fact every once in a while. :o

10 bit just seems like it should be much better, but it really isn't.

I didn't miss anything at all. I'm only saying that it was only a very small minority of users that were affected by very minor banding (provided their displays were able to handle 10-12bits of course), but the latest version nukes this for ALL nVidia users, including those that had NO banding whatsoever because they were not using passthrough.

I'm aware that many people should be using 8bits for various reasons, and using 4:2:2 just to get 10bits is clearly a bad idea, but if you can get 10bits 4:4:4, that's a bit less noise than with 8bits 4:4:4, so I don't see why this should go.

Of course, most of you have displays that can't handle more than 8bits, or that could handle 10bits but not the 12bits that nVidia sends, so you keep harping about "no difference" between 8bits and 10bits, but that's simply not true if you have a 10bits or 12bits capable panel.

And by the way, I don't know any "casual" HTPC user that uses MadVR. I'm certainly not a "casual" HTPC user, and neither are you or most of those posting in this thread.

There is nothing better about 10bits regarding banding, MadVR's dithering is excellent, but there is simply a bit less noise than with 8bits.

[Asmodian]

Oh, I agree. It would be better to have SDR modes still output 10 bit in fullscreen windowed, it was simply much worse to output 10 bit HDR in fullscreen windowed with an Nvidia GPU and this was a very quick fix. :o

madshi's fix was too simple but there are probably a lot more users using HDR passthrough than those that get a real benefit from 10 bit (sorry you are one of the few). Almost everyone with an HDR display is going to be using an HDR output mode because otherwise the display does not even enable its HDR mode. The only reason to use SDR output with HDR content is if you do not have an HDR display, or in your very special case with custom tone mapping that assumes HDR content in what the OS and drivers treat as SDR. They are also very likely to enable 10 bit because HDR displays support it and of course 10 is better. I have seen a lot of users with LG or Samsung HDR TVs and Nvidia GPUs in this thread.

I am not saying your case is bad, or even pointless. We want the best quality possible at all times. madVR should enable 10 bit output for fullscreen windowed anytime it is not using Nvidia's HDR API. I was simply pointing out that 10 bit is subtle enough that most people can only notice it in the OSD, not in the image, even with true 10 bit panels.

Comparing 6 bit dithering to 8 bit dithering is a good way for anyone to get an idea of the difference even without a proper 10 bit panel and 6 to 8 bit is a MUCH more significant difference compared to 8 to 10 bit. Seeing the noise due to static 8 bit ordered dithering done in linear light is... tricky, it does affect the image quality but it is very hard to see.

If this does affect you negatively you have to use FSE or an older version of madVR for now. :(

[VincAlastor]

I reported this when Windows 10 1803 was still an insider build but it seems it's still an issue.

I have upgraded two computers to Windows 10 1803 and both of them now have an issue where the video freezes for about 2-5 seconds whenever entering exclusive fullscreen mode. Downgrading back to the previous version of Windows 10 fixes it on both computers.

Titan XP, latest NVIDIA drivers/MadVR/MPC-BE. Default settings everywhere for testing.

I have to confirm. Please fix.

[MrBonk]

Hey guys, kind of dumb question that may have already been answered. But for bitmap subtitles played back from a DVD source, is there any way to skip upscaling of the subtitles and leave them untouched? They seem to get upscaled along with the image. Which kind of makes the text look pretty smudgy.
Just curious.

[Clammerz]

But for bitmap subtitles played back from a DVD source, is there any way to skip upscaling of the subtitles and leave them untouched?
Are you sure you want them at their original size? They are minuscule. You likely won't be able to read them at their original size.

VobSub had a cool option back in the day to "vectorize" bitmap subtitles. It sometimes broke but when it worked it was so good. I don't think anything offers that anymore.

[Oguignant]

someone has problems with Windows 10 1803 update? Something strange happens after the update on my laptop, the render times droped from 16 ms to 10 or 12 ms (2k upscaling to 4k), I know, it's a good thing, but it seems very strange to me. Usually after an update of MS, things never get better ... I checked all the Madvr settings and they are the same as yesterday ...

Example 4k HDR window modem downscaling

BEFORE UPDATE
https://i.imgur.com/6FDbAdMl.png

AFTER UPDATE
https://i.imgur.com/dfWeR4Ol.png

[ryrynz]

Rendering times are near meaningless without knowing the clock speeds. Maybe things are more efficient, don't know.

[Oguignant]

Rendering times are near meaningless without knowing the clock speeds. Maybe things are more efficient, don't know.

the clock speeds are the same in before and after update. I do not change anything in the hardware configuration or settings.

[Asmodian]

I get lower rendering times reported too but I cannot push my settings higher. Now I start getting dropped frames at rendering times much lower than the frame time. I think this a change in the rendering time's measurement, not a change in performance.

It does make me wonder though about a lot of the current high end sets that say they are 10 bit, but are actually 8bit + FRC, which as I understand it is dithering at the TV end. In this scenario are we best off sending 8bit from MadVR or 10 bit and above?

This is entirely dependent on the display. If is has a good internal pathway that preserves madVR's dithering in 10 bit until the panel, and its FRC algorithm is good, it can be better to send it 10 bit. Most of my displays have not been ulta high end and have not done 10 bit better than 8 bit. I did have a 10 bit monitor that had a very good 10 bit pathway, at least as far as I could determine in testing, and it was an 8 bit + FRC panel.

[MrBonk]

Are you sure you want them at their original size? They are minuscule. You likely won't be able to read them at their original size.

VobSub had a cool option back in the day to "vectorize" bitmap subtitles. It sometimes broke but when it worked it was so good. I don't think anything offers that anymore.

No, tiny text is not good. Was just hoping they could be upscaled separately maybe using a more pleasant algorithm for text.

[FDisk80]

I'm assuming you did, but did you make sure you selected a different refresh rate than the one you are trying to customize (e.g. anything besides 23hz?).

Yes, I'm applying customized 23hz refresh rate while in 60hz mode.