madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) [Archive] - Page 240

6233638

1st February 2012, 23:54

Anyone else tried using the new Nvidia 295.51 drivers with madVR?

Playback seems fine initially (no worse than other recent drivers) but after 15–20 minutes, it's started dropping frames like crazy. Is this happening with anyone else?

As an aside, timings seem improved. 24Hz is now stable at 24.00008Hz for me.

EDIT: This may be a LAV Filters issue. Switched it from CUVUD to DXVA2 Copyback and it's been smooth for almost an hour.

I can't say if this was the issue or not for sure, until I try playing back a film that I know is fine rather than something new.

what about 23.976000?I use ReClock to watch films at their original speed.

Portioli

2nd February 2012, 00:16

what about 23.976000?

:P

SamuriHL

2nd February 2012, 00:19

I've installed it but haven't had a chance to use it yet.

Portioli

2nd February 2012, 00:53

Anyone else tried using the new Nvidia 295.51 drivers with madVR?

Playback seems fine initially (no worse than other recent drivers) but after 15–20 minutes, it's started dropping frames like crazy. Is this happening with anyone else?

As an aside, timings seem improved. 24Hz is now stable at 24.00008Hz for me.

EDIT: This may be a LAV Filters issue. Switched it from CUVUD to DXVA2 Copyback and it's been smooth for almost an hour.

I can't say if this was the issue or not for sure, until I try playing back a film that I know is fine rather than something new.

I use ReClock to watch films at their original speed.

you prefer 24 over 23.976?

i think that i have read that before on an avs thread
but is that really true?

that the original movie speed is 24hz????

6233638

2nd February 2012, 01:56

Regarding the new Nvidia drivers, I think it's a LAV Filters issue rather than madVR. I went back to the sections that were causing me problems before now that I've switched from CUVID to DXVA2 Copyback, and they were fine.

Switched back to CUVID and it starts dropping frames like crazy again.

you prefer 24 over 23.976?

i think that i have read that before on an avs thread
but is that really true?

that the original movie speed is 24hz????Film is 24.000fps, and is slowed down to 23.976 for legacy compatibility on Blu-ray in NTSC regions. (3:2 at 59.94Hz for displays with no 24p support)

In PAL regions, many Blu-rays have 24.000 on the disc as they have no legacy compatibility issues to worry about. (PAL is 50Hz rather than 59.94 so there's no easy fix, DVDs were sped up to 25fps and thankfully that's over)

Many discs released in PAL regions are still 23.976 though, mainly because it's easier to use the same encode as the NTSC release.

This always seems to spark up a debate whenever it's mentioned, so it's perhaps best left elsewhere.

Razoola

2nd February 2012, 05:42

I could not use the new nvidia beta drivers. They decided that my HDMI connected display used a DVI lead and thus I lost sound over HDMI.

Hypernova

2nd February 2012, 06:29

I'm trying out PotPlayer. What I found out is that it can't show subtitle with madVR internal decoder. Anyone know how to fix this?

phoenixxl

2nd February 2012, 06:33

I prefer to manually add a good 23.9760 mode instead of speeding up video 1 per mil , it's the more elegant solution imo, it's the most "compatible" solution taking all media into account. Speeding up video means speeding up audio and speeding up subtitles. Speeding up audio means in my case it needs to be decoded then encoded again since I use optical output ie it prevents me from using passthrough.

For those that are able to do it display and driver wise I would certainly recommend creating a mode with 23.9760 hz freq over using extra filters .

Don't get me wrong , I'm not saying reclock is badly written or buggy , I think it's a nice addition to the suite of filters available this day . But imo it's to be used as a "fix" when creating a 23.9760 mode is not possible . reclock was created to avoid the "stutter frame" every 41 seconds due to adding duplicates when forcing 23.976 into 24 .

nevcairiel

2nd February 2012, 08:22

Regarding the new Nvidia drivers, I think it's a LAV Filters issue rather than madVR. I went back to the sections that were causing me problems before now that I've switched from CUVID to DXVA2 Copyback, and they were fine.

Switched back to CUVID and it starts dropping frames like crazy again.

Its still a driver issue, nothing else. :p
CUVID decoding has been rock stable for quite a while and alot of different drivers.

I'll stick with the 290 beta drivers, those have worked quite well for me. :)

reclock was created to avoid the "stutter frame" every 41 seconds due to adding duplicates when forcing 23.976 into 24 .

Wrong. ReClock was created to slow-down PAL releases from 25 to 24 fps.
That it became famous to fix all sorts of fps mismatches was not its primary goal back in the day... :)

phoenixxl

2nd February 2012, 09:25

From what I read it was created to get rid of jerky playback due to mismatched sync (read on video help)Whatever the case may be what the original purpouse was , it was only a mention . What I am saying is , don't use it if you don't have to .

Playing movie rate media that's been sped up to 25 fps is of course a good reason to use it.

Don't go slowing down your torchwood , sherlock and dr who episodes guys... :3

Andy o

2nd February 2012, 10:32

There's little reason to not use it if you're not bitstreaming and are using an HDMI connection or analog like many (most?) of us here. Even if you're using SPDIF, you can decode the lossless track and reencode to DD on the fly with ReClock with virtually no loss of quality compared to what you'd be getting by bitstreaming the SPDIF-compatible original stream to begin with.

Custom resolutions are not ideal if ReClock can fix the problem easily. For example, you have to create one for 23.976 and one for 24 and switch between them. I'm not sure if that's possible with NV anyway. Intel has famously not been able to do 23.976 for years, at least not with some workarounds that people shouldn't require to do, and still it's not guaranteed to be exact.

6233638

2nd February 2012, 10:34

Its still a driver issue, nothing else. :p
CUVID decoding has been rock stable for quite a while and alot of different drivers.

I'll stick with the 290 beta drivers, those have worked quite well for me. :)Right, sorry. I didn't mean to imply that it's a problem with LAV Filters, just an incompatibility/issue with the new drivers. It's a real nuisance that what primarily seem to be game related updates manage to screw up video playback all the time.

I still haven't been able to get presentation glitch-free playback since the last WHQL drivers, but they're over three months old at this point, and missing performance improvements/fixes for games that I own.

I could not use the new nvidia beta drivers. They decided that my HDMI connected display used a DVI lead and thus I lost sound over HDMI.Weird. I lost my display's 50Hz mode in this update, which I need for some 50Hz BBC documentaries. (but I'm sure I can just add it as a custom mode)

I prefer to manually add a good 23.9760 mode instead of speeding up video 1 per mil , it's the more elegant solution imo, it's the most "compatible" solution taking all media into account. Speeding up video means speeding up audio and speeding up subtitles. Speeding up audio means in my case it needs to be decoded then encoded again since I use optical output ie it prevents me from using passthrough.I cannot create a custom mode for my display, it doesn't like anything other than the official timings. (which is a real pain as it won't sync to 48Hz despite supporting 50, when all my previous displays would)

Perhaps you are able to achieve perfect playback over the course of a 140+ minute film, but I find ReClock to be necessary for that, and would be using it regardless, as I have a number of 50Hz DVDs which have no Blu-ray release yet. As previously mentioned, I also have a number of films which are 24Hz on the disc.

If you are using optical, surely you would be decoding the HD audio track, reclocking it and then encoding it for output? I can't imagine this being any more lossy than bitstreaming the DD5.1/DTS track off the disc. (it seems like this could potentially improve quality?)

phoenixxl

2nd February 2012, 11:25

I'm not sure if that's possible with NV anyway.

590:
http://i.imgur.com/7crRa.png
http://i.imgur.com/MIdSS.png

I have the same setup with an old 8800 ultra.

In most cases precise custom frequencies are only problematic for the displays , all nvidia cards I've had have been able to handle them quite well.

phoenixxl

2nd February 2012, 11:56

Perhaps you are able to achieve perfect playback over the course of a 200 minute film, but I find ReClock to be necessary for that, and would be using it regardless, as I have a number of 50Hz DVDs which have no Blu-ray release yet. As previously mentioned, I also have a number of films which are 24Hz on the disc.
My display is able to handle 24.000 25.000 23.976 . Depending on what is being played , the correct screen is opened at the needed frequency. Yes , slowing down sped up Pal is a reason to actually use it. ReClock doesn't provide "perfect playback" if you have a display locked at 59 or 60 hz , you will get the usual 3 frame 2 frame cycle , with a 3 frame 3 frame every so often. Speeding up your video 1 pro mil will not make it any more "perfect" . The issue is mainly with people relying on a 1 to 1 match between video speed and monitor frequency and don't have 5 frames to stick 2 frames in , if in that case you have a frame drop or god forbid a duplicate every few seconds , you notice it quite clearly. In that case , as I said before , I would recommend , ->if your hardware supports it<- , making a 23.976 freq custom mode instead of adding extra filters that can mess things up and do extra things to your audio and subtitle timings.(can not will)

If you are using optical, surely you would be decoding the HD audio track, reclocking it and then encoding it for output? I can't imagine this being any more lossy than bitstreaming the DD5.1/DTS track off the disc. (it seems like this could potentially improve quality?)

Most media I play aren't bluray discs. TV series and anime make up the bulk of what I watch.

Qaq

2nd February 2012, 13:19

If you are using optical, surely you would be decoding the HD audio track, reclocking it and then encoding it for output? I can't imagine this being any more lossy than bitstreaming the DD5.1/DTS track off the disc. (it seems like this could potentially improve quality?)
Nope. DTS core is 1536 and AC3 embedded is 640. You can't "improve" over it.

nevcairiel

2nd February 2012, 13:36

Nope. DTS core is 1536 and AC3 embedded is 640. You can't "improve" over it.

Quality isn't only defined by the bitrate used, but also by how good the encoder is you use. If ReClocks AC3 encoder is any good is another question entirely, however.

phoenixxl

2nd February 2012, 14:37

Audio would be worse in most cases . Enabling the ReClock filter prevents you from using passthrough on your spdif output , and forces you to re-encode audio.

Ac3 640 is what's supported for on the fly output from ffdshow or ac3 filter. Ignoring master audio or true hd , and seeing ac3 640 as acceptable , I just don't like the fact , even from an ac3 source , my audio gets re-encoded. The hq audio modes will always be better unmodified though, converting them to ac3 640 will cripple them.

If I would have had a decoder that only supported ac3 and dts , and a disc had LPCM 27 mbit audio and a DTS track (probably rare) , modifying and encoding the LPCM track could give a better result than plainly playing the DTS track* (if you are one of those people that believes Dolby Digital is better than DTS). All of which is somewhat far fetched.

*In which case one could disable passthrough and play the LPCM track with AC3 output at whatever freq my monitor is at -> "ReClock will never make your audio better."

jaagil

2nd February 2012, 15:12

Is there any reason I should use Fullscreen Exclusive mode with my Desktop?
And is there "best" settings to MPC-HC?
I've been using the libavs that come with madvr to decode 10bit files, no problems whatsoever, and haven't had any problems with the windowed mode either, I guess it is normal to get few dropped frames when you go from window -> fullscreen (in windowed mode) and when you Jump Forward / Backward ? Thanks.

leeperry

2nd February 2012, 15:59

In which case one could disable passthrough and play the LPCM track
In the case of not discussing terribly OT audio matters in the mVR thread I would guess.

Qaq

2nd February 2012, 16:43

Quality isn't only defined by the bitrate used, but also by how good the encoder is you use. If ReClocks AC3 encoder is any good is another question entirely, however.
Resampled sound encoded by Valex Audio Library (VALib) by Alexander Vigovsky VS original sound encoded by Dolby Media Producer Suite by Dolby Laboratories, Inc? I don't think so. But only leeperry knows for sure.
(sorry for OT madshi, I can't just ignore nev's posts).

phoenixxl

2nd February 2012, 17:34

In the case of not discussing terribly OT audio matters in the mVR thread I would guess.

It's all related to media files in general . There happens to be audio , video and subtitles in most. And it all influences each other. But if you insist on using the fact I discuss audio as an opportunity to start trolling it's your decision.Your reply being on toppic pertinent constructive and informative.

Kind Regards

leeperry

2nd February 2012, 19:19

It's all related to media files in general
You're wasting everyone's time not discussing about mVR here...madshi has better things to do. Proper audio playback is just as complicated as video, this is not a "free for all A/V discussion thread", it's the mVR thread.

Resampled sound encoded by Valex Audio Library (VALib) by Alexander Vigovsky VS original sound encoded by Dolby Media Producer Suite by Dolby Laboratories, Inc?
double lossy encoding is a big no-no technically speaking, only you can tell if you would hear a difference though.

some ppl cannot tell the diff between Overlay and mVR, some between a realtek onboard and a $3K external DAC...why worry? you're very lucky, more than anything else.

The most OCD'ed amongst us cannot bear watching a movie w/o perfect gamut mapping, their standards are just higher than yours...it doesn't make them any more happy than you to watch a movie, their OCD can actually be utterly frustrating when they don't get what they want ^^

Zachs

3rd February 2012, 01:11

I've recently switched to madVR+LAV CUVID from EVR CP+Microsoft DTV-DVD Decoder.

What I've noticed is deinterlacing is no longer working with madVR+LAV CUVID. But I've checked to make sure the deinterlacing checkbox is ticked in the madVR config (which is already on by default). Use ITVC in nVidia control panel's deinterlacing box has also been checked. With LAV CUVID, I've tried setting all the deinterlace settings as well from weave to bob to adaptive. Nothing worked.

Switching between deinterlacing modes video/film (CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+T) didn't change anything for me.

The video stream has its interlaced flag set, so it's not the media's fault:

General
ID : 1283 (0x503)
Complete name : test.ts
Format : MPEG-TS
File size : 3.47 GiB
Duration : 1h 31mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 5 447 Kbps

Video
ID : 769 (0x301)
Menu ID : 1328 (0x530)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=18
Codec ID : 2
Duration : 1h 31mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 4 920 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 15.0 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.474
Stream size : 3.13 GiB (90%)

Any idea what could be wrong? Anything else I need to check to make sure the video gets deinterlaced?

Zachs

3rd February 2012, 01:21

Anyone else tried using the new Nvidia 295.51 drivers with madVR?

Playback seems fine initially (no worse than other recent drivers) but after 15–20 minutes, it's started dropping frames like crazy. Is this happening with anyone else?

I've got the same problem here. Had to restart the system to get it working properly again.

Back to v258.96 for me.

Andy o

3rd February 2012, 01:38

590:
http://i.imgur.com/7crRa.png
http://i.imgur.com/MIdSS.png

I have the same setup with an old 8800 ultra.

In most cases precise custom frequencies are only problematic for the displays , all nvidia cards I've had have been able to handle them quite well.

That's not what I meant. I meant that I don't know that you can run custom versions of both 23.976 and 24.000 on NV. Can you? I seem to remember someone mentioning a workaround though.

In any case, custom resolutions can cause more trouble than ReClock, and ReClock is easier to do.

Reencoding a lossless source into AC3 is not the same as reencoding a lossy "core" stream. Lossless->lossy reencode is more equivalent as playing the original lossy core.

shimaflarex

3rd February 2012, 01:57

I believe I have found a bug.
Switching to the "old path" exclusive mode(as in, not only disabling present several frames in advance, but actually setting the media player to full screen mode) limits the number of backbuffers to 3, in both windowed and exclusive mode.

toniash

3rd February 2012, 09:40

@shimaflarex I think it's a XP limitation

fairchild

3rd February 2012, 10:20

I noticed this also on Win7 when I recently switched to FSE old path by just disabling present several frames in advance with MPC-HC. The backbuffer queue always stays at 3 in fullscreen or exclusive modes even though I have both backbuffers set to 6. (maybe it's a limitation of FSE old path)

shimaflarex

3rd February 2012, 16:12

@toniash: I'm using W7.

If it is a limitation with the "old path", I don't think it should also apply to windowed mode

PrayForMojo

3rd February 2012, 19:11

golagoda

4th February 2012, 00:46

Hope somebody can give me a suggestion.
I like the MadVR renderer but one thing I'm missing is the shapen complex 2 shader option in MPCHC.
Is there a way to get this feature back or an alternative way of accomplishing the same thing?

Thanks in advance.
If you can use the same shader/use a function with the same effect in avisynth you can run the avisynth script using your media player that uses madVR and it will send the video with the effect done to it to the player.

Qaq

4th February 2012, 09:20

I like the MadVR renderer but one thing I'm missing is the shapen complex 2 shader option in MPCHC.
Is there a way to get this feature back or an alternative way of accomplishing the same thing?
"shapen complex" is a feature of another renderers (EVR CP, VMR9r), so you can't "get it back" in madVR.
If your video is smaller than screen size you can try a "sharper" luma scalers - spline, lanczos.

jaagil

4th February 2012, 16:06

Xaurus

4th February 2012, 16:38

madshi,

Any updates on any new version of madvr?

PrayForMojo

4th February 2012, 18:43

"shapen complex" is a feature of another renderers (EVR CP, VMR9r), so you can't "get it back" in madVR.
If your video is smaller than screen size you can try a "sharper" luma scalers - spline, lanczos.

That's why I asked if there was an alternative way of doing it for the same effect. As it stands right now, the higher resolution content looks better to my eyes on my equipment with evr+sharpen complex 2.
For lower resolution stuff, madvr is clearly superior and all i want is that slight boost in sharpness that I prefer.

PrayForMojo

4th February 2012, 18:45

If you can use the same shader/use a function with the same effect in avisynth you can run the avisynth script using your media player that uses madVR and it will send the video with the effect done to it to the player.

hey, do you know if the avisynth method is post resize? I want sharpness after all the resizing and whatever is done , not before.

I must tell you that I read up some guides online and some of the avisynth stuff is way over my head.

Owyn

4th February 2012, 21:19

btw, I switched to madvr + ffdshow and in ctrl+j it says i'm correctly playing hi10p videos with 10bit and P010 color output, is that really so? Do I need LAV anyway or all is fine?

Thunderbolt8

4th February 2012, 21:59

madshi,

Any updates on any new version of madvr?get used to it, development and updates of madshis products stretches over a few years of time. there are long periods with no apparent progress (for us).

Qaq

4th February 2012, 22:17

As it stands right now, the higher resolution content looks better to my eyes on my equipment with evr+sharpen complex 2.
For lower resolution stuff, madvr is clearly superior and all i want is that slight boost in sharpness that I prefer.
Not much you can do here. You can enable gamma processing in madVR settings. Set it to Pure power curve ~2,45, start playback and press Ctrl+Shft+Alt+C few times to make sure its enabled.

Gser

5th February 2012, 20:34

If you want sharpening just use FFDShow and perhaps some sharpening filters threw its avisynth feature.

Remicade

5th February 2012, 21:21

SamuelMaki

5th February 2012, 22:02

I calibrate TV using native resolution 1360*768 (black bar at 16 in AVSHD709), I start madvr with 1080p23 (1920*1080 23,976 refrsh rate) in list all display mode and appers all black bars in AVS 709. It is normal ? In 1360*768 I use Video Levels in madVR options.

If you are already calibrated your TV, remember to check "display is already calibrated" and fill the necessary information... Are you sure your tv is calibrated to use 16-235 instead of full-RGB? Remember also tweak graphic drivers to give the right settings...

Remicade

6th February 2012, 05:14

The problem is in 1366*768 I have Video Levels and in 1920*1080 I have PC levels. The black become gray. Why ? Only I change resolution and refresh rate.

aufkrawall

6th February 2012, 18:20

What are the drawbacks when I disable "present several frames in advance" for full screen exclusive mode?

kalston

6th February 2012, 18:49

What are the drawbacks when I disable "present several frames in advance" for full screen exclusive mode?

It just makes the exclusive mode work like it did before, which is better than the new one for me with recent nvidia drivers (although I'm having lip sync issues atm and I'm wondering if it could be related to any of this).

I don't know if the new mode is meant to be "universally better", but IIRC madshi said that it was meant to be even better regarding tearing (and maybe stuttering?) than the old one.

What I know for sure is that windowed mode can also work well enough for some people and that with recent nvidia drivers the old mode is flawless regarding performance and smoothness while the new one suffers from constant presentation glitches (on my machine that is).

aufkrawall

6th February 2012, 19:50

What I know for sure is that windowed mode can also work well enough for some people and that with recent nvidia drivers the old mode is flawless regarding performance and smoothness while the new one suffers from constant presentation glitches (on my machine that is).
Because of these performance issues I asked. :)
With the new mode I don't even dare to watch videos with very high bitrate, it's not an option.

oddball

6th February 2012, 22:05

MadVR decoder does not play ball with ReClock. I get video stream not found. Note: I only use ReClock for PAL 'Film' speedown. Vsync is off. It would be nice if it worked alongside it. For now I use LAV Filters which work for most video. I think MadVR's decoders also don't work alongside ffdshow RAW filters from what I can tell. I guess my decoding needs are just too esoteric for MadVR to deal with.

nevcairiel

6th February 2012, 22:06

madVRs decoders can't work with ffdshow raw or ReClock. Its just designed in such a way that its impossible. They are not separate decoders, they are directly included in madVR - you cannot hook anything in there, no ffdshow raw, and also not ReClocks video stream detector.

turbojet

6th February 2012, 22:13

Hope somebody can give me a suggestion.
I like the MadVR renderer but one thing I'm missing is the shapen complex 2 shader option in MPCHC.
Is there a way to get this feature back or an alternative way of accomplishing the same thing?

Thanks in advance.

Madshi said pixel shader support is on the todo list. I found ffdshow's unsharp mask with a strength of 13 to be just as sharp with less aliasing than sharpen complex 2. It's also very light on resources.

The other ffdshow sharpen filters didn't agree with my eyes. LSF/LSFmod and SeeSaw are highly regarded avisynth sharpener's but they weren't usable on anything but SD even when using SetMTMode, too many dropped frames.