madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[ForceX]

10bit X265/HEVC 1080p is very hard to decode in CPU. Do you get the same result when playing H264 videos?

[sneaker_ger]

His decoder queues are full which suggests it's not a decoding bottleneck.

[Apache553]

10bit X265/HEVC 1080p is very hard to decode in CPU. Do you get the same result when playing H264 videos?

Actually, I get the same result when playing with madVR. No matter what the codec is.

[Asmodian]

Upload is very slow, odd. Do you have "present a frame for every VSync" enabled? Try changing it. Also try changing "use a separate device for presentation". How does "enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode" influence it?

How about f.lux or other programs that interact with the GPU? This looks like Optimus or other odd architecture issue but of course you are using AMD with a dGPU.

Edit: The issue is getting the frame from the decoder to the GPU, usually a memory bandwidth problem (that can be caused by drivers or software along with hardware limitations).

[Apache553]

Upload is very slow, odd. Do you have "present a frame for every VSync" enabled? Try changing it. Also try changing "use a separate device for presentation". How does "enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode" influence it?

How about f.lux or other programs that interact with the GPU? This looks like Optimus or other odd architecture issue but of course you are using AMD with a dGPU.

Edit: The issue is getting the frame from the decoder to the GPU, usually a memory bandwidth problem (that can be caused by drivers or software along with hardware limitations).

Those options didn't make sense.
There is no other programs that interact with the GPU.

After my testing,I found it that only 10bit videos lag too much.Is that really a memory bandwidth problem?

[nussman]

84% CPU load is too much for smooth playback (imho).
So it looks like a decoder issue to me (10bit => no dxva => cpu too slow). You can try 64bit (Player, Decoder and madVR).

[LigH]

"More than 8 bit per component" also means "more than one byte" ... so processing 10 bit may already require twice the memory bandwidth, even if just in a part of the processing.

But a lack of hardware accelleration due to unsupported attributes weights more.

[mclingo]

can someone help me understand this. Star trek 2009, I have a 1080p remux, a 2160p remux and a 2160p HDR remux. I have set MADVR so it only outputs in 2160p so it should only be upscaling the 1080p version, right?. If so then it should take more GPU processing to do this, right?

I'm using lanczos for chroma upscale and NGU sharp medium for image upscale, here are my results on my AMD RX 550.

1080p

GPU 83%
Rendering times 33 ms

2160p

GPU 92%
Rendering times 32ms

2160p HDR

Rendering times - 147ms
GPU - unknown - probably 99%

Something has defo changed with HDR playback, dont know if its MADVR or GPU drivers as I was able to get smooth HDR playback with these settings, now HDR is unwatchable. I went back a few versions in MADVR and it made no difference so I guess it could be drivers.

Anyone else out there with an crappy RX 550 who can share their settings / experiences?

time for a new card maybe, used RX 480/580 maybe.

[Clammerz]

can someone help me understand this.
You'll most likely need to post screenshots of the MadVR OSD for anyone to be able to see what's going wrong.

[mclingo]

Ive just reinstalled MADVR and i'm back to reasonable rendering times and smooth playback now, getting about 33ms for 4k/4k HDR stuff, still running my card over 90% though, MADVR really doesnt like my RX 550.


what is odd however is if I tick all the perf vs quality ticks it make pretty much zero difference, should this be doing something here?


https://www.dropbox.com/s/6i5qpd5orruczcy/Star%20Trek%20%282009%29.4K.SDR.mkv_snapshot_00.50.47_%5B2018.02.19_22.16.23%5D.jpg?dl=0

[ryrynz]

But what are your GPU clock speeds doing? Render time may stay the same but you're using less power.

Also.. Your screenshot doesn't show me anything obviously set up wrong.. Do you have some image processing on?

[mytbyte]

If you are using HDR -> SDR conversion, perhaps it was set to low quality for preserve highlights before?

[ryrynz]

The new high quality preserve hue doesn't use much above the processing that was required for low/normal quality.

[mclingo]

I have a HDR TV so i'm passing through, i'm not doing any processing, using stock settings apart from those already mentioned. Playback is smooth even though its hammering my card.

[mclingo]

actually, i'm using dithering ED 2 which does add about 5 ms on top of ordered and 10ms on top of no dithering but I always use this.

[mytbyte]

The new high quality preserve hue doesn't use much above the processing that was required for low/normal quality.

Not so sure, say, on s GTX 960, it's the same as has always been with HFS HDR - stuttering, render times too high for 60 fps video...

[mclingo]

what is it that most effectively determines the power of a GPU in MADVR, processing units, shaderss?, looking at these stats should I expect a more than double performance out of an RX470, how do we think these cards scale real life, worth the upgrade?


Radeon RX 570 Radeon RX 550
GPU Name Ellesmere (Ellesmere PRO) vs Polaris 12 (Baffin XT)
Fab Process 14 nm vs 14 nm
Die Size 232 mm² vs 0 mm²
Transistors 5,700 million vs unknown
Shaders 2048 vs 640
Compute Units 32 vs 10
Core clock 926 MHz vs 1125 MHz
ROPs 32 vs 16
TMUs 128 vs 40

[mclingo]

although now is clearly not the time to be buying a GFX card....

[el Filou]

lavfilter can't decode DVD by it self it is using the MS decoder.Thanks, I did not know that. Just so we're clear, you do mean video decoding, and not the navigator? Does that also apply if the DVD is deCSS'd?

Perhaps el filou has some truly progressive PAL DVDs? A run through mediainfo would reveal the truth?I checked 2 of the last DVDs I bought (= format was mature & they probably were mastered correctly): No Country for Old Men, and Zodiac; both R2 french.
MediaInfo says progressive for all VOBs of NCfOM, and if I play the main feature from the start it indeed plays as progressive ("deinterlacing off (says upstream)"), like in the screenshot of the Paramount Vantage logo intro I took of it for steakhutzeee).
For Zodiac, MediaInfo says interlaced for the 1st VOB but progressive for the others. If I play the main feature from the start it plays as interlaced ("deinterlacing on (says upstream)"), but if I play the second VOB directly it plays as progressive.
I know MediaInfo only looks at the start of the file, and there's a ~12 second Warner logo intro clip at the start, I guess it's probably flagged as interlaced even though it isn't (no artifacts when I force weave on it). :rolleyes:

I suspect what's happening is the decoder isn't detecting when the frame flags change from interlaced to progressive, like when you go from the menu to the main feature or when a main feature has interlaced intro clips, and that's why I have to stop after the feature has started and then resume from where I left to have my DVDs automatically play as progressive.
I clearly remember when I used the old NVIDIA PureVideo MPEG2 decoder 10 years ago, it was switching between interlaced and progressive on the fly with my DVDs.
I'll continue this discussion in the LAV thread to ask nevcairiel.

(for the anecdote, I have only one PAL DVD in my collection that I can't watch in progressive: The Abyss Extended Edition, R2 belgian. I don't know what the hell happened when they mastered that thing :sly: Edit: actually I know, only the extended sequences are interlaced, and they're true interlaced because I get jaggies)

[ryrynz]

actually, i'm using dithering ED 2 which does add about 5 ms on top of ordered and 10ms on top of no dithering but I always use this.By picture processing I'm meaning Sharpening, RCA, AR etc. Check both before (device) and after upscaling. Might be best to just switch your settings out and test fresh.

[takenori]

hi, i want to ask, for a samsung monitor (32chg70) madvr reports the bitdepth of the monitor is 8bit, and the windows 10 reports it a 10bit.
is there any difference of which bitdepth should i choose (either via nvidia control panel or from madvrs bitdepth of which should i choose, auto or 8 (as madvr) or 10 or higher (as windows).
and for playing hdr content, is it okay to use 8bit or do i need to force them to 10bit?

[Asmodian]

Set madVR to whatever you set Windows to, do check with test patterns the difference between 8 and 10-bit paths on your display. Sometimes 8-bit looks better (when the 10-bit path isn't good for some reason).
gradient-perceptual-colored-v2.1_24fps.mkv (http://www.mediafire.com/file/4dia3lixs0n9xyo/gradient-perceptual-colored-v2.1_24fps.mkv)
gradient-perceptual-v2.1_24fps.mkv (http://www.mediafire.com/file/z1f4ahg3784lfwz/gradient-perceptual-v2.1_24fps.mkv)

[mytbyte]

(for the anecdote, I have only one PAL DVD in my collection that I can't watch in progressive: The Abyss Extended Edition, R2 belgian. I don't know what the hell happened when they mastered that thing :sly: Edit: actually I know, only the extended sequences are interlaced, and they're true interlaced because I get jaggies)

AFAIK, The Abyss is most likely the old 4:3 letterboxed release from long ago, probably made from the TV version, relict of olden days...I'm eagerly waiting for the bluray that's allegedly in preparation...

Sadly I can't check my PAL DVDs for progressive flag, the DVD drive in the PC has failed, really no incentive to get a new one...wander if there is some other software that can detect and report flag changes throughout the video?

[SEX]

Hello everyone! Is it normal that the image in the madVR has the wrong colors? My monitor is calibrated by colorimeter to default values: D65, Gamma 2.2 I tried to adjust the color in the madVR according to various instructions, but this does not help

https://i.imgur.com/i3QTDrP.jpg

[mytbyte]

@SEX: we really need the screencapture of your MadVR OSD...generally, you can try enabling "this display is already calibrated" in calibraiton section under your display's model

[huhn]

you are playing back well... jpgs so you have to be a little bit more precise in what you are doing there.
they are not even remotely looking the same. so so they are altered.
so these are not videos so are the correct color informations even delivered to madVR?

My monitor is calibrated by colorimeter to default values: D65, Gamma 2.2
and how did you do that?
it's just a white point and gamma so there are a lot of missing steps in term of "calibrations" and is this in ICC file is the monitor calibrated to let's say Bt709, sRGB or adobe RGB.

[SEX]

@SEX: we really need the screencapture of your MadVR OSD...generally, you can try enabling "this display is already calibrated" in calibraiton section under your display's model
https://i.imgur.com/16vLsce.png
https://i.imgur.com/PZNexsN.png

[SEX]

you are playing back well... jpgs so you have to be a little bit more precise in what you are doing there.
they are not even remotely looking the same. so so they are altered.
so these are not videos so are the correct color informations even delivered to madVR?


and how did you do that?
it's just a white point and gamma so there are a lot of missing steps in term of "calibrations" and is this in ICC file is the monitor calibrated to let's say Bt709, sRGB or adobe RGB.

sRGB IEC1966-2.1

[mytbyte]

@ sex: it very confusing...do you have ICC profile embedded in jpeg? If you do, I don't think MadVR can work with it...please let us know what Photoshop reports in the Doc tab/Document Profile (under the picture)...also do the colors change when you press Ctrl-Y in PS?

[SEX]

@ sex: it very confusing...do you have ICC profile embedded in jpeg? If you do, I don't think MadVR can work with it...please let us know what Photoshop reports in the Doc tab/Document Profile (under the picture)...also do the colors change when you press Ctrl-Y in PS?

Untagged RGB (8bpc). Yes, they change

Here is the file. On your pc does it look normal?

[mytbyte]

OK. scrap the ctrl-Y, it's too dependent on many if-then-elses..please upload the jpeg someplace else (upload to wetransfer and give us the link)...normal is more blue or more purple? ;)

[SEX]

OK. scrap the ctrl-Y, it's too dependent on many if-then-elses..please upload the jpeg someplace else (upload to wetransfer and give us the link)...normal is more blue or more purple? ;)

https://s10.postimg.org/npiqmsc3d/644083.jpg

Normal is More Blue. madVR gives an unprocessed image in the screenshot, unlike a PS

[mytbyte]

Can't be sure that uploading to an image service doesn't change the file, please use wetransfer...for this one I can say it looks the same everywhere (MPC-HC, PS, Chrome...) and it's more blue so it looks like in MPC-BE on your side...it's some PS problem...what do you have set under View/Proof Setup?

[SEX]

Can't be sure that uploading to an image service doesn't change the file, please use wetransfer...for this one I can say it looks the same everywhere (MPC-HC, PS, Chrome...) and it's more blue so it looks like in MPC-BE on your side...it's some PS problem...what do you have set under View/Proof Setup?

https://we.tl/F9gmzFM57h

Set Working CMYK. GIMP gives the same colors. Corrective: correct color is More Purple. If I use the "Use Display ICC Color Gamut Correction" in the PotPlayer, then the colors match in the PotPlayer, but only for Enhanced Video Renderer, does not work for madVR

[nevcairiel]

madVR does not use the ICC, it uses its own 3DLUTs for calibration. Either your calibration tool allows exporting a 3DLUT, or you'll need create a 3DLUT from the ICC (I forgot if there was a simple tool to do that).

[mytbyte]

@SEX: ... I think your ICC calibration may be off...but it is all very weird since the jpeg is untagged...you can use ICC in MPC-BE if you use EVR custom presenter...

[SEX]

@SEX: ... I think your ICC calibration may be off...but it is all very weird since the jpeg is untagged...you can use ICC in MPC-BE if you use EVR custom presenter...

Windows Photo Viewer also correctly displays colors, as well as the PS and the GIMP, I do not think that the matter is in the settings of these programs. For you, Windows Photo Viewer also display colors like the madVR (without the 3DLUT?)

[mytbyte]

Please pres ctrl-J while playing in madvr and post OSD here, we need to see what matrix and primaries are detected...

why do you first say that Windows Photoviewer displays correctly and at the end you say it displays like MadVR which is incorrect (to you)?

[SEX]

Please pres ctrl-J while playing in madvr and post OSD here, we need to see what matrix and primaries are detected...

why do you first say that Windows Photoviewer displays correctly and at the end you say it displays like MadVR which is incorrect (to you)?

https://s18.postimg.org/7qj86r089/644083.jpg_snapshot_00.31_2018.02.20_18.54.54.png

Correct is More Purple. madVR always been More Blue. I'm interested in how the Windows Photo Viewer displays colors in comparison with the madVR on your PC

[mytbyte]

Your MadVR OSD info is same as mine, in Photo Viewer it is the same as everywhere else = more blue.

[SEX]

Your MadVR OSD info is same as mine, in Photo Viewer it is the same as everywhere else = more blue.

Does your monitor have a custom color profile, not sRGB? And do you use 3DLUT?

[mytbyte]

No, I calibrated "in monitor", it's default sRGB in Color Management ...please disable "use my setting for this device" in Windows Color Management and see what happens, I suspect it should be more blue everywhere...it really may be your ICC Profile is compensating drastically i.e. your monitor may be way off

you can create a madVR 3D LUT from ICC profile or calibration run with DisplayCAL

[takenori]

Set madVR to whatever you set Windows to, do check with test patterns the difference between 8 and 10-bit paths on your display. Sometimes 8-bit looks better (when the 10-bit path isn't good for some reason).
gradient-perceptual-colored-v2.1_24fps.mkv (http://www.mediafire.com/file/4dia3lixs0n9xyo/gradient-perceptual-colored-v2.1_24fps.mkv)
gradient-perceptual-v2.1_24fps.mkv (http://www.mediafire.com/file/z1f4ahg3784lfwz/gradient-perceptual-v2.1_24fps.mkv)

cheers:thanks:

[SEX]

No, I calibrated "in monitor", it's default sRGB in Color Management ...please disable "use my setting for this device" in Windows Color Management and see what happens, I suspect it should be more blue everywhere...it really may be your ICC Profile is compensating drastically i.e. your monitor may be way off

you can create a madVR 3D LUT from ICC profile or calibration run with DisplayCAL

Yes, without the monitor color profile, the colors are the same. More Blue, as with calibration in the madVR. Does this mean that the madVR ignores the system-wide color profile? How can this be?

[mytbyte]

Yes, without the monitor color profile, the colors are the same. More Blue, as with calibration in the madVR. Does this mean that the madVR ignores the system-wide color profile? How can this be?

Of course it ignores it, we told you already, it's a video renderer, it deals with LUTs...:o you can try the DisplayCAL/LUT route...or just use EVR with Color Management Enabled

[SEX]

Of course it ignores it, we told you already, it's a video renderer, it deals with LUTs...:o you can try the DisplayCAL/LUT route...or just use EVR with Color Management Enabled

Is there no option for outputting the image to the framebuffer via video card LUT? (I'm not strong in this)

[Asmodian]

The video card LUT does not do a full calibration, it is only grayscale correcting 3 1DLUTs. There can be more information in an ICC profile but it isn't used by hardware, color aware applications have to load it and do any conversions in software.

MadVR does use the GPU's hardware LUTs.

[e-t172]

SEX: when comparing a still image file between Photoshop and madVR, there is a shitload of variables that could explain the difference you're seeing. It doesn't mean that Photoshop is doing anything wrong, or that madVR is doing anything wrong. They might simply be using different calibration settings and/or might be making different guesses about the color space or the image.

Off the top of my head, I can think of at least three major reasons that could possibly explain the color discrepancies that you're observing:

- Photoshop and madVR might disagree about what the color space of the image is. For example, one might treat it as sRGB, while the other might treat it as BT.601. (madVR will tell you which color space it's using in the OSD that you can open by hitting CTRL+J.) madVR (and the rest of the player chain) might not be very good at guessing the color space because it is designed for video, not still images.

- Image preferences might be different. For example, depending on settings, madVR could be doing some gamma correction that would make sense for video but not necessarily for a still image file.

- Most importantly, Photoshop and madVR might be using different calibration settings. Photoshop (and the Windows photo viewer too, at least the Windows 7 one) will use the ICC profile that's configured for your monitor. madVR won't do that automatically - you need to manually generate a 3DLUT file from the ICC profile and give it to madVR in the settings. (Note that vcgt - the 3x1DLUT calibration part of an ICC profile that is applied directly in the output hardware of the GPU and applies to the entire Windows desktop - is not the full contents of an ICC profile. Photoshop will use the full ICC profile, while non-ICC-aware applications will only go through the vcgt. Be careful, this stuff is highly contrived and can be quite confusing.)

EDIT: oh, and since your image is from a video game, you can also add confusion between video levels (16-235) and PC levels (0-255) into the mix. It's quite possible madVR is guessing 16-235, which could be wrong. Again, the OSD (CTRL+J) will have that information.

[mytbyte]

@e-t172: you're, of course, right about everything you said, but I believe we already established it's the ICC profile which PS, GIMP, Windows Viewer do use while MadVR does not...the difference is so obvious because his monitor seems to have quite large hue shift and output from MadVR is uncalibrated...

[Asmodian]

If you can make an ICC profile you should be able to make a 3DLUT which should be an even better solution than an ICC profile.