madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

but he is on win 7.

[giulianoprs]

Thanks Warner306, I ask you another opinion, advice, not to strain the gpu (rx 560 is not very powerful) and do not rise to 65 degrees of temperature, using JIN is good as a filter? do I lose little in visual quality? is it ok like JIN as a filter?
Last thing, in the HDR setting is it better to select "pass to HDR content to the display" so that the TV version does the face-up and not madvr? I'm not very expert in settings, I would like to do something simple and with few problems.
Thanks again, bye to everyone.

[LigH]

MPC-HC, yes.

Nvidia driver version might be a reason. I don't update always immediately, the last was probably a part of MS Update, I should get a fresh one from Nvidia.

[Grimsdyke]

Latest Intel GPU driver (6094, Win10 64bit) not only increased performance of MadVR by around 1 msec. but also seem to have fixed RGB. So I am at Full RGB throughout again. Nice !!

[Warner306]

Thanks Warner306, I ask you another opinion, advice, not to strain the gpu (rx 560 is not very powerful) and do not rise to 65 degrees of temperature, using JIN is good as a filter? do I lose little in visual quality? is it ok like JIN as a filter?
Last thing, in the HDR setting is it better to select "pass to HDR content to the display" so that the TV version does the face-up and not madvr? I'm not very expert in settings, I would like to do something simple and with few problems.
Thanks again, bye to everyone.

If you don't want to use NGU, I would use super-xbr100 instead. super-xbr is faster than Jinc and higher quality.

Definitely set HDR to passthrough and send metadata to the display.

[Polopretress]

Exact same issue here, it appeared when I upgraded Windows from 1709 to 1803. This only happens when madVR switches to exclusive mode, though.
Same for me. Switch to exclusive mode is very long since windows last update. (around 100 to 200 drop frames)

First thing i have also noticed after the update is that the rendering time of the windowed mode was drasticaly reduced (from 10 msec to 6.5 msec )
I do not have time actually to check the root cause but i think that some algo does not work anymore in windowed mode.
In exclusive mode , the rendering time has not been modified.

[Polopretress]

Multiple individuals, including me have this issue, in varying degrees.
If you use the "search this thread" feature at the top of this page for "windows 10 1803" You'll have at least two pages of information to go through.
No full fix for those of us affected beyond rolling back to the previous Windows version. I've reduced a few setting and also set my render queue (GPU) to 7 and my present queue to 6 as they will not fill up beyond that. I have everything working with the slight settings reduction in quality and with the queues set to what I mentioned.
You will just have to adjust settings while watching a video until you can find something that will work with your hardware to fill up the reduced queues. For me, dropping settngs in "artifact removal" helped me.
I'm sure madshi will be able to come up with solutions once he can allocate some time for madVR. He has a real job beyond madVR and committments and bills to pay. :)

It is strange. On my side, i have the opposite in windowed mode. 10msec rendering before the update adn 6.5 msec after the 1803 update.
No change in exclusive mode except that switching to this mode is really long and multi drop during this time (100 to 200 drop frames)

[sauma144]

I really really really want to know what this new algorithm is.

[x7007]

For me with LG OLED 55 C6 set 60hz 3840x2560 native Firmware 4.31.0
NVidia 1080 GTX 397.94
Potplayer x64 1.7.12248
Windows 10 x64 1803

Exclusive works fine set to 10 bit. Also HDR works fine
Renderer time 4 or something.
In nvidia driver Renderer set to Prefer application control

[el Filou]

10msec rendering before the update adn 6.5 msec after the 1803 update.Was the same GPU driver used in both cases and did you check that the GPU clocks were the same?

[imhh11]

I have following setup
- HTPC (i3, 8gb RAM, Nvidia 1050)
- Yamaha A3070 AVR
- JVC X790r Projector

I recently started using madVR with Kodi and MPC-HC and having a lot of issue playing 4K mkvs with HDR. When I play a file using MPC-HC (with madVR set to pass through HDR and no other settings changed), my projector automatically switches to HDR mode indicating that HDR signal is being received but the whole pictures has dark pink/purple tint on it. As soon as I end playback, everything goes back to normal. If I select Enhanced Video Renderer (Custom Presenter) in MPC-HC, video plays correctly but HDR tag is not passed so no auto switching is done by projector. HDR is turned off in Windows settings (and I am unable to turn it on because when I try to do that, everything goes black and by the time pictures resumes the prompt to confirm selection is gone)


I have also played with setting in madVR to convert HDR to SDR but the results have been less than ideal with more prominent noise and depending on the settings colors ranging for overly saturated to very pale.

I have already tried different HDMI cable and doing a clean install of Nvidia drivers but not much luck.

Separately, I'm having another issue which may or may not be related and that is I cannot set the resolution in Window or Nvidia control panel to 1080p/60. For some reason it keeps getting back to 4K/24. When I try to set the display setting to 1080p/60 the screen goes black and when it comes back I usually have a second or two to press a button to confirm changes otherwise it reverts back to 4k/24 setting. If in case I successfully change the settings it works for sometime and then randomly changes back to 4k/24.

I have checked on the AVR and video is set to "Pass through" on the projector it shows that it is receiving "4K signal". So there is something in the HTPC which keeps switching the resolution/frame rate. For the most part I can live with that setting but some of the programs (like Nvidia Control panel) do not scale even when scaling is set to 300% so they are impossible to use on 120" screen.



same here, i get that purple picture with my JVC 550X too, and this for a while. 60hz or 24hz, it doesnt change anything.

Setting nvidia control pannel to Ycbcr422 10 bit or 12 bit fixed the issue. in RGB, the picture also turn magenta with the Windows HDR slidder on.

quick tip to turn on the windows hdr slidder , once you switch it on , press TAB ENTER. you could also use teamviewer with your phone


and btw this is an issue only with my projector, that same pc connected to an HDR TV doesnt have any of those issues.

[IggySLO]

I may have similar issues as the users above me. With regards to HDR, if I "let madvr decide" or "passthrough HDR to the display", I get a white noise image on the TV when I start an HDR-content video. If I then simply restart the playback the video works fine every time. Sometimes it even works on 1st try, but it more often starts with this white noise.

This doesn't happen if I use any of the other options for HDR in madVR, so I'm pretty sure that it's a software issue with madVR and not something in the HDMI chain for example.

I use the latest MPC-HC and madVR. PC > hdmi > AVR > hdmi > TV

Interestingly, this started to happen when I bought a new TV. I previously had a Sony 65X850C which did accept HDR (even though I'm not sure it's even in the spec sheet, but HDR logo did appear if I looked into the picture setup). The new TV is Sony 65A1. BTW, I updated the nvidia drivers, but no change.

[Warner306]

I may have similar issues as the users above me. With regards to HDR, if I "let madvr decide" or "passthrough HDR to the display", I get a white noise image on the TV when I start an HDR-content video. If I then simply restart the playback the video works fine every time. Sometimes it even works on 1st try, but it more often starts with this white noise.

This doesn't happen if I use any of the other options for HDR in madVR, so I'm pretty sure that it's a software issue with madVR and not something in the HDMI chain for example.

I use the latest MPC-HC and madVR. PC > hdmi > AVR > hdmi > TV

Interestingly, this started to happen when I bought a new TV. I previously had a Sony 65X850C which did accept HDR (even though I'm not sure it's even in the spec sheet, but HDR logo did appear if I looked into the picture setup). The new TV is Sony 65A1. BTW, I updated the nvidia drivers, but no change.

If this started to happen when you got a new display, it doesn't necessarily mean madVR is to blame. It treats every display the same way. Perhaps, your display is misinterpreting the color values and metadata it is given? Did you try like the poster above to switch between RGB and YCbCr in the GPU control panel?

[d3rd3vil]

Any news on passing through dual layer Dolby Vision stuff maybe? :)

[IggySLO]

Did you try like the poster above to switch between RGB and YCbCr in the GPU control panel?

Nothing makes any difference sadly, only the hdr settings in madvr. I don't get why I have to click the file twice in order to get it to play normally.

[Polopretress]

Was the same GPU driver used in both cases and did you check that the GPU clocks were the same?
Yes. Exactly the same configuration except the update to 1803.
Of course, i had to set the custom modes for custom resolution @23.97602 and @24.00000 due to the fact that the update removes them.

[hannes69]

Any news on passing through dual layer Dolby Vision stuff maybe? :)
Yes, madshi is working with a team of 10 people exactly on that feature since 3 weeks of course, what else?

[d3rd3vil]

Well if no one seems to be able to convert dual to single layer then I thought maybe a passthrough is the only way we got here :)

[ryrynz]

Any news on passing through dual layer Dolby Vision stuff maybe? :)Did you use search? See madshi post anything about it?
If anything happens you'll know, I wouldn't bother bringing it up again otherwise, just let it go.

[x7007]

I am having issue with the Nv HDR and OS HDR with potplayer windows 1803 . with both of them the HDR color is not correct . it shows white dots artefacts randomly on same locations . changing the Nvidia display settings to YCbCr 422 10 bit works fine also when using the Nv OS mode as long I set the color manually in the NVCP and not default . using 397.93 drivers

[gfxnow]

mpc-hc most likely I think, I'd rate mpc-be as the better player though.

Don't know how they compare but yes at least MPC-BE is being actively developed.

[ntropy]

What/where is the "hdrOutput" information field?

[Manni]

What/where is the "hdrOutput" information field?

Not implemented yet, it's a mistake in the release notes. It should appear in a future release (in the OSD) and report the active HDR mode (dumb, complex, passthrough etc).
Hopefully it will come along with the variable to select a profile according to max brightness, which is also planned but Madshi ran out of time for both of these.

[sat4all]

Speaking of OSD, when using hdr passthrough or process hdr by using pixel shader math, madvr report that it use my BT.2020.SDR.3dlut but toggling 3dlut on/off make no difference.
bug?

[Manni]

Speaking of OSD, when using hdr passthrough or process hdr by using pixel shader math, madvr report that it use my BT.2020.SDR.3dlut but toggling 3dlut on/off make no difference.
bug?

Yes bug. The SDR BT2020 3D LUT isn’t used in passthrough even if the OSD reports it active. It’s only a display bug though, so not a biggie. The 3D LUT shouldn’t be enabled in passthrough or process HDR as the display is still involved in the processing. If you want to apply a 3D LUT, use another option.

[madjock]

I am a little confused on what I have achieved after delving into MadVR and KODI Dsplayer.

I only have an old LG 1080P HDTV, mostly 1080p Remux and some 4K Remux movies. I started using MadVR again after finding out that HDR goes to washed out until using the great application and it getting converted from HDR to SDR.

Am I seeing a Placebo effect watching 4K on a 1080P TV ? If the HDR is getting converted to SDR am I missing out on so much I should just stick to 1080P, do I see extra detail or is it Placebo ?

The more posts I read from people that own 4K HDR TVs is that instead of 4K movies differing in the amount of HDR, certain ones being darker, there is a constant battle messing with settings and not every film is the same, but is that not the point ?

The more I read the more it seems to be people upscaling Anime in a lot of the guides you read, and most of the guides seem to point back to old settings not used anymore.

To sum up can High Bitrate 1080P/4K movies look any better than they are, or could you get the same effect by playing with the TV settings for sharpness etc ?. The reason I say this is if I read correctly and 4K TVs are sometimes referred to as only as good as the distance you are away from it, then surely all these filters, processing elements are the same. There seem to be negatives when applying processing that you have to use other options to counter this, so I am unsure if it actually achieves anything. I see zoomed in pictures that says things change, but if you have to zoom in, are you actually going to see the difference in real time at unzoomed settings ?

I am not dissing MadVR at all, just confused where it is all going and how could it get better ?

[x7007]

Does it matter for us with HDR if it's D3D11 Exclusive (10bit) ? where would it matter ?
Using LG OLED C6 TV
Windows 1803
If I want the movie using the windows HDR which is 8 bit + Dithering will it be ok to watch HDR movies using D3D11 Full Windowed (8 bit) ?

[Yoshi]

I started using MadVR again after finding out that HDR goes to washed out until using the great application and it getting converted from HDR to SDR.

However, bear in mind the unfortunately (and I don't wanna blame madVR on this as apparently it seems to be quite a complex issue) neither madVR will give the same look as if it would be a native SDR source. Had to learn my lesson where I dared to raise a stink about how overblown Starship Troopers looks on UHD here (https://www.avforums.com/threads/starship-troopers-uhd.2121609/page-4#post-26025536).


Am I seeing a Placebo effect watching 4K on a 1080P TV ? If the HDR is getting converted to SDR am I missing out on so much I should just stick to 1080P, do I see extra detail or is it Placebo ?

That depends on the source. In theory, if the 4K source has a better frequency response (spatial resolution) than its retail 2K counterpart, having that scaled down on your own using madVR or similar, will give you an optimal result.

Also note that some Blu-rays contain aliasing in their 2K video as a result of incorrect filtering (Transformers: Age of Extinction being a "good" example).

Also, UHD sources give you 2K resolution for the color, however it is questionable how severe that difference is.

The more posts I read from people that own 4K HDR TVs is that instead of 4K movies differing in the amount of HDR, certain ones being darker, there is a constant battle messing with settings and not every film is the same, but is that not the point ?

Since HDR content draws even higher demands on the playback equipment especially in regard to maximum brightness, the results differ even more compared to SDR.

To sum up can High Bitrate 1080P/4K movies look any better than they are, or could you get the same effect by playing with the TV settings for sharpness etc ?.

For my taste, that artificial "sharpening" or "edge enhancement" never adds anything useful to the picture. If the source isn't sharp to begin with, best one can achieve is a subjective higher sharpness at first sight at the cost of halos, ringing, and what not. Hence: no, you can't recreate any real detail with that setting.

[Magik Mark]

Guys,

what are your setting for HDR to SDR conversion. I'm getting a very pale color

[madjock]

Convert HDR content to SDR by using pixel shader math

I have target peak nits at 150
Tone mapping curve - BT.2390

and I am using dumb mode - convert gamut late

Unsure if any are right or wrong, but nothing looks bad as such.

[Magik Mark]

Thanks a lot! That did it. However, I noticed in MPC BE, when you fast forward or jump from scene to scene. The color becomes pale again. You need to restart the player

Same thing happens when switching different refresh rates

[madjock]

Thanks a lot! That did it. However, I noticed in MPC BE, when you fast forward or jump from scene to scene. The color becomes pale again. You need to restart the player

Same thing happens when switching different refresh rates

Ok this side, I use MPC-HC and KODI with Dsplayer, dont think I have seen any issues like that this side, on Nvidia 1050 and using 390.77 drivers.

[Warner306]

Does it matter for us with HDR if it's D3D11 Exclusive (10bit) ? where would it matter ?
Using LG OLED C6 TV
Windows 1803
If I want the movie using the windows HDR which is 8 bit + Dithering will it be ok to watch HDR movies using D3D11 Full Windowed (8 bit) ?

It only matters if you can spot the difference with your eyes. You likely aren't missing anything with 8-bits with dithering. Many new UHD displays are still 8-bit with dithering. There are other more important things to worry about. Watch something at 8-bits and see if you notice the difference.

[Warner306]

However, bear in mind the unfortunately (and I don't wanna blame madVR on this as apparently it seems to be quite a complex issue) neither madVR will give the same look as if it would be a native SDR source. Had to learn my lesson where I dared to raise a stink about how overblown Starship Troopers looks on UHD here (https://www.avforums.com/threads/starship-troopers-uhd.2121609/page-4#post-26025536).


Tone mapping and color accuracy don't really go together as well as you'd like. The paper below describes the challenge of correcting saturation and contrast after luminance reduction (how to desaturate after tone mapping):

https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rkm38/pdfs/mantiuk09cctm.pdf

If you look at the color corrected images of the apples towards the end of the paper, you'll notice they don't look too bad but don't match the original at all. And this paper limited luminance reduction to 33% of the original, so it didn't have to deal with out-of-gamut colors, which require further correction, even after proper desaturation.

I think most current HDR content is being mastered to be tone mapped by dimmer displays. I saw a side-by-side of the 2018 flagship Samsung QLED (with a peak brightness over 1,000 nits) with an LG OLED (peak brightness of 540 nits) playing the same frames from HDR sources. The LG OLED has a better black level, but not by much. However, the slight boost in contrast and saturation provided by tone mapping made the OLED look like it had a much better black level and more overall punch in the image. The only area where the Samsung excelled was in shadow detail, also likely due to the tone mapping of the OLED. And the dumb gamut mapping of the OLED made the extreme highlights stand out more. The combination of the perceived boost in contrast with the enhanced highlights made the OLED look better even if it was less true to the director's intent. The difference in detail in the two images was very striking. Tone mapping can lead to very different images in some scenes depending on how the content is mapped.

Things would likely move in Samsung's favor if you tried to tone map the same sources to something as low as 100 nits. But moderate tone mapping doesn't look that bad if the source is graded for it.

[Manni]

Thanks a lot! That did it. However, I noticed in MPC BE, when you fast forward or jump from scene to scene. The color becomes pale again. You need to restart the player

Same thing happens when switching different refresh rates

If you're using xysubfilter, try to use the internal subtitle renderer. I have reported to Madshi an issue with xysubfilter in pixel shader that causes such issues. Hopefully it will be fixed at some point, along with the unnecessary forced 8bits in pixel shader with nVidia in windowed mode.

[Magik Mark]

Thanks Manni! That did it.

[SweetLow]

madVR v0.92.11 released

* fixed: "display" profile variable didn't work properly

Yes. Now it's working as expected. Thanks.
Now you can even have different renders (DX9/DX11) on different displays. The only thing which is not functioning when you change display on the fly is overlay if it is enabled on one display and disabled on other.


I'm not sure how near frame blending would have to be done, it might require dozens of frames to be blended to be totally invisible. I think a better idea might be to try to detect two frames where motion is minimal and then drop one of those. But this is relatively hard to implement. So not planned any time soon.

>it might require dozens of frames to be blended to be totally invisible
Yes, dozens. So we will have hours of "bit perfect" video and few seconds of blended (and user can manually set length of this (blended) area if you will do such setting).

>I think a better idea might be to try to detect two frames where motion is minimal and then drop one of those. But this is relatively hard to implement.
Yes, hard. And that's why i offered blending. IMHO you have all ready for this (Smooth Motion algorithm) except drop/repeat point detector.

[sauma144]

What? Do you mean madshi will improve the smooth motion algorithm? :eek:
Is it the totally new algorithm?

[SweetLow]

What? Do you mean madshi will improve the smooth motion algorithm? :eek:
Is it the totally new algorithm?
No. It is not improvement of SM nor new algorithm. This is struggling with almost the same but not equal frequencies. Read the beginning of this discussion.

[ryrynz]

What? Do you mean madshi will improve the smooth motion algorithm? :eek:
Is it the totally new algorithm?

With high refresh displays it makes sense to improve smooth motion at some point if it's possible.. but yeah as Sweetlow said, this is about matching refresh to display frequencies.

[Polopretress]

But Smooth Motion is completly useless when you have perfect custom resolutions adapted to movie fps (or adapted to a multiple of fps)

[SweetLow]

when you have perfect custom resolutions adapted to movie fps (or adapted to a multiple of fps)
But if it is imperfect, but so small imperfect that we can have hours of exact video and only few seconds of changed?

[nevcairiel]

But if it is imperfect, but so small imperfect that we can have hours of exact video and only few seconds of changed?

If you have hours of perfect video, how long are your videos that it then becomes a problem?

For most purposes you don't need "perfect", you just need "good enough", which even for long movies is probably like ~3 hours.

[Manni]

If you have hours of perfect video, how long are your videos that it then becomes a problem?

For most purposes you don't need "perfect", you just need "good enough", which even for long movies is probably like ~3 hours.

Yes, but for many (i.e. us nVidia users) custom refresh modes give only about 50-60mn of drop-frame-free playback in 2D, and 3-5mn in 3D :(.

That's something that has to be improved, especially 3D (although I'm aware that 1) this is primarily nVidia's fault and 2) that's not going to be easy/possible in 3D).

[nevcairiel]

Even without madshi's tool to make custom refresh rates easier, I've been setting up custom rates with only NVIDIAs control panel for years with 2+ hours of drop time. Its really not that hard.

[Polopretress]

If you have hours of perfect video, how long are your videos that it then becomes a problem?

For most purposes you don't need "perfect", you just need "good enough", which even for long movies is probably like ~3 hours.

Agree.
my acceptance criteria for the safe side is above 10 hours before the first drop/repeat occures and i do not care about smoothing problem. In this condition, enabling Smooth Motion function does not give any added value.
The last (small) flickerings that are still existing (especialy on vertical travelings) cannot be removed by SM but only by the smooth feature of the TVs or Projectors if there are equiped with.

Yes, but for many (i.e. us nVidia users) custom refresh modes give only about 50-60mn of drop-frame-free playback in 2D, and 3-5mn in 3D .

That's something that has to be improved, especially 3D (although I'm aware that 1) this is primarily nVidia's fault and 2) that's not going to be easy/possible in 3D).
Driver Nvidia are sometime crazy and in most of case, it is more easy to modifiy directly the settings in madVR custom modes where you can have the flexibility to adjust pixel clock. (like ATI GPU driver but not provided with Nvidia drivers)

If the scan with custom modes function does not give you the expected good timing (or blank screen) , then, a simple calculation based on the displayed data "1 frame drop/repeat every :..." helps to manually calculate the good settings for back porch H/V and pixel clock

This is what i do since custom mode scanning does not always give me a good result.
With ATI graphic display board, no issue with the driver.

[SweetLow]

If you have hours of perfect video, how long are your videos that it then becomes a problem?

Hours is little exaggeration, of course. I have 40min repeat on my home system on HD4000.
But phrase "we have [tens of] minutes exact video and only few seconds changed" sounds as good as with hours :)


you just need "good enough"

Some people are very sensitive to repeats/drops. This thread is good example. That's why this discussion take place.
P.S. "as high as possible" is the madVR slogan, isn't it?

[nevcairiel]

Some people are very sensitive to repeats/drops. This thread is good example. That's why this discussion take place.
P.S. "as high as possible" is the madVR slogan, isn't it?

Well if you have a 3-4 hour drop interval, you're not going to see any drops unless you actually watch a movie that long. So in this case while higher is of course "better", it doesn't really benefit you either.

[SweetLow]

Even without madshi's tool to make custom refresh rates easier, I've been setting up custom rates with only NVIDIAs control panel for years with 2+ hours of drop time. Its really not that hard.
I do it on Intel by EDID override since 2013. But what this facts prove or disprove? We can do better even in such situations - why not?

[ajamils]

@madshi

Is there a way in MadVR to force resolution to switch from 4k/24 to 1080p/60 when 3D mkv is played? Right now madVR upscales all videos to 4k/24, which is what my desktop is set at and because of that 3D does not work.