madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[mrmarioman]

Try with fullscreen exclusive unticked it's the only way I could get it to display HDR. On the RX 480 I had to click on the MadVR icon though to get it working otherwise the colors were washed out. On my new RX Vega I don't need to do that and in fact if I click the MadVR icon the colors instead go psykadelic!

Click the icon? I'll give it a shot later.

But the colors don't look -completely- washed out. I have that problem with Windows' HDR when going full-screen, it will wash out the image entirely. But what I'm seeing with my 980Ti is different; it's not completely washed out. It looks like a normal blu-ray film with the added brightness (nits).

Here's a good example of what I get:

WCG disabled.
http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/js8500/js8500-color-standard-large.jpg


And here what it should look like, WCG enabled.
http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/js8500/js8500-color-hdr-large.jpg

[aufkrawall]

a small guess you using 6 or less GPU queue?
8 and it's not exclusive to madVR.
I can instantly tell if it's yadif or GPU by looking at structures like the microphone stand, cables or lighted shoulders during playback.

[Kotik]

madVR. mpc-HC goto 480, x2 control left arrow key, 4x control right arrow key should do the job.

So lets see :)

AMD:
https://abload.de/img/amd480madvr7xyv0.png

https://abload.de/thumb/amd480madvr7xyv0.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=amd480madvr7xyv0.png)

NVidia:
https://abload.de/img/480mesbt.png

https://abload.de/thumb/480mesbt.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=480mesbt.png)

Is it me or there is Chroma offset? I did make sure to use Jinc for Chroma and Luma scaling.

[kuchikirukia]

Oooh, screenshots in DAR with xysubfilter subs. TY madshi.

[huhn]

in this image AMD. and before i forget check the image processing page in the CCC or what it's name is now.

@aufkrawall the microphone stand is the only part where YADIF clearly wins vs NVIDIA.
the wrong chroma position could create a bunch of problems too.

[Kotik]

in this image AMD. and before i forget check the image processing page in the CCC or what it's name is now.

@aufkrawall the microphone stand is the only part where YADIF clearly wins vs NVIDIA.
the wrong chroma position could create a bunch of problems too.

Got all image processing off in CCC.

@Huhn what do u think regarding YADIF vs AMD? I wanted to upgrade from my AMD to an NVidia card, if YADIF will give me similar results with AMD i will be happy to proceed otherwise i will have to sit and wait until AMD releases a single slot, low profile RX card.......

NVidia has already GT 1030 out and it perfectly fits my HTPC case.

[huhn]

if you want to update to a 1030 i recommend you to not update if you really don't need to.
none RX cards run amazing fast with madVR often outperforming nvidia cards in the same price range by quite a lot.

if the chroma position get's fixed i don't think YADIF stand a chance against nvidia. but i'm not going to find out deinterlacing isn't that important to me. on the still image nvidia wins in my book.

[CruNcher]

Spatially that AMD result looks nice especially very solid reconstructed the String the Microphone Pole the middle and top part no aliasing left overall much better then the current Nvidia result and look it even keeped the specular better preserved on the Microphone top as well on it's bottom before the cable goes into it the whole angle of it was better processed, it was clear they improved they continuously do since some time now it would be nice to see HD Graphics results as well now from Kaby Lake :)

But we really need to find the same setups without any interfering factors

and i think we should try to get Samples in Motion done for each spatially is nice but without seeing results in Motion it's semi efficient to judge it :)

@Kotik

The new Vega Nano will be a beast not cheap but a beast.

And your result looks really good it wouldn't even matter whats the cause anymore it just beats any of the others currently spatially and yes there is a visible offset it shifts the whole red lamp ;)

The cullprit are the strings

best reconstruction result is definetly your AMD result here it does everything better then Yadif and Nvidia as a whole

Yadif has master problems with keeping the strings

Nvidia does better but your result tops both on the strings reconstruction amazing result at the same time your result keeps overall everything that yadif does + more :)

We need a Football field compare :D

[steakhutzeee]

Hi! :) In your opinion, what are best settings for madvr on my configuration?

I've an Intel i5-4590; an MSI R9 270X 2GB; 8GB RAM.

Thanks!

[huhn]

you didn't even tell us what your target resolution is.

[steakhutzeee]

you didn't even tell us what your target resolution is.

Sorry :) I'm on an Asus VC239H, so i'm in FullHD 1920*1080. Hope this helps.

[huhn]

try image scaling NGU sharp as high as possible before you drop frames and disable the post processing of the screen.

[Kotik]

@Kotik

The new Vega Nano will be a beast not cheap but a beast.

And your result looks really good it wouldn't even matter whats the cause anymore it just beats any of the others currently spatially and yes there is a visible offset it shifts the whole red lamp ;)

I also think that out of the three, YADIF / NVidia / AMD, the AMD does a slightly better job overall.

Deinterlacing for me is half the content during my daily usage of HTPC so it is important. But my HTPC case has enough space for Low Profile and 1slot size GPU, as you can understand my options are limited.

Currently got R7 240 and been waiting for a year for AMD to release something and they came up with RX 550 LP but this one is a two slot card.......

So i got two alternatives, either wait until AMD comes up with something new and hope it is single slot and low profile or get GT 1030 which doesnt impress me with the deinterlacing.

Is the chroma shifting a madvr issue or is it a driver issue?

[aufkrawall]

@aufkrawall the microphone stand is the only part where YADIF clearly wins vs NVIDIA.
the wrong chroma position could create a bunch of problems too.
The mic is bad enough, and in motion I can spot it also elsewhere. I haven't heard of a general problem with YADIF shifting chroma, is that really so?

[steakhutzeee]

try image scaling NGU sharp as high as possible before you drop frames and disable the post processing of the screen.

Sorry, can you be more specific? image upscaling? I'm trying to set all options to the lowest value but i've always dropped frames.
(if i press ctrl-r the dropped frames goes to 0, if i reopen the file i've dropped frames again).

I tried to restore madvr settings, not touching anithing but always some frames dropped.

[huhn]

looks like no not a madVR issue. i get the same in MPC-HC.
so we are pretty much out of luck here a bug in madVR get's fixed a driver bug can take "forever"...

nvidia has the chroma shift not AMD just to make that clear.
i would never get an polaris card for madVR they are terrible at NGU.

[huhn]

Sorry, can you be more specific? image upscaling? I'm trying to set all options to the lowest value but i've always dropped frames.
(if i press ctrl-r the dropped frames goes to 0, if i reopen the file i've dropped frames again).

I tried to restore madvr settings, not touching anithing but always some frames dropped.

just dropped frames from starting the video that normal and can be ignored. just make sure the number stays where it is.

or just post a screen with the OSD.

[steakhutzeee]

looks like no not a madVR issue. i get the same in MPC-HC.
so we are pretty much out of luck here a bug in madVR get's fixed a driver bug can take "forever"...

nvidia has the chroma shift not AMD just to make that clear.
i would never get an polaris card for madVR they are terrible at NGU.

So how i've to set it all? Maybe there is some up to date guide?

[CruNcher]

I also think that out of the three, YADIF / NVidia / AMD, the AMD does a slightly better job overall, the downside is the chroma shift.

Deinterlacing for me is half the content during my daily usage of HTPC so it is important. But my HTPC case has enough space for Low Profile and 1slot size GPU, as you can understand my options are limited.

Currently got R7 240 and been waiting for a year for AMD to release something and they came up with RX 550 LP but this one is a two slot card.......

So i got two alternatives, either wait until AMD comes up with something new and hope it is single slot and low profile or get GT 1030 which doesnt impress me with the deinterlacing.

Is the chroma shifting a madvr issue or is it a driver issue?

Im not sure if that is even a chroma shift do these lights move in that scene in their interlaced state change their light direction rapidly ?

i gonna download it myself looks like a nice test case :)

[walstib]

Please create a debug log, zip it, upload it somewhere (don't attach here) and then link to it here. Please make sure you have the Ctrl+J OSD active while creating the debug log. Thanks.


@madshi - as requested.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B32qC2QOKOo3S3J5Q3pld2FYUjg/view?usp=sharing

this was created using JRiver MC23 64bit, but the 32bit version has the same issue: MVC3D playback does not switch to FSE. It does in MC22 without issue.

thanks

[huhn]

So how i've to set it all? Maybe there is some up to date guide?

the defaults settings are pretty good.
here is a "guide": https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787
you could try to use smooth motion because you are on a monitor.

[steakhutzeee]

just dropped frames from starting the video that normal and can be ignored. just make sure the number stays where it is.

or just post a screen with the OSD.

When i jump to another part of a video the frame dropped increase, but stay equals, apparently. Btw here is a screen. Maybe i can send you my setting file so you can look at it?

https://s26.postimg.org/gte1s4svt/Clipboard01.jpg

[huhn]

everything is fine.

[mitchmalibu]

Hey madshi, quick question regarding the Nvidia video output. Reading your first post, it seems that RGB is the way to go (no needless yuv to rgb internal conversion). However, now that HDR is here, being able to output 10bit 4k content is a must. Unfortunately, RGB 4k60@10bit isn't possible yet ( http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/hdmi_2_0_faq.aspx#146 ). So what is the preferred way to go ?

Use the default colors settings and let Nvidia manage it in the background
Force an output color format that guarantee a 10bit output at every refresh rate but get an extra yuv to rgb conversion


For example, using the usual 60fps 4K HDR tests clips, if I manually set the output color to RGB (so 8bit depth max at 4K), the clip does play fine (HDR activates on the TV) and madvr reports a 10bit output. But is the output from the GPU really 10bit ? Does the driver automatically switches to an output color format that supports 10bit @ 60fps ? Or do I get a picture that went through some cheap internal conversion / dithering to accommodate for the RGB HDMI 2.0 limitations ?

Thanks in advance for your feedback !

[CruNcher]

Everything Nvidia (GP104)

Pretty Pure usecase for Madvr but if you think about a Max-Q Laptop on the lower end valid i guess :)

http://i1.sendpic.org/i/7D/7DqlKR9xmjHUBU7HKftvzfoJtVW.png
http://i1.sendpic.org/i/XM/XM5scU6hH6vgR54NksSZb0FSMl.png

Everything Nvidia (GP104) + Yadif

http://i1.sendpic.org/i/aO/aOdGkJXw19YOYBKSrpkjZTQ3neY.png
http://i1.sendpic.org/i/t5/t5wAnP71ZroM9wC5x4OI4ZoK46u.png

[steakhutzeee]

everything is fine.

Thanks :) What's the effective advantage of using exclusive fullscreen mode? With it i've not a "more powerful" seek bar. I've the blu one and with it i can't see preview.

And what i should use in 'upscaling refinement'?, 'refine the image after every 2x up. step', or the other?

Thanks :D

[Asmodian]

Exclusive fullscreen mode does not have any advantages with Windows 10 (at least on my system). Stay with what you are using now.

The other, refine after every 2x up. step can over sharpen and also takes a lot more power. This is a preference based setting though, if you like how it looks better with every 2x up step then use that.

[Kotik]

Everything Nvidia (GP104)

Pretty Pure usecase for Madvr but if you think about a Max-Q Laptop on the lower end valid i guess :)

http://i1.sendpic.org/i/7D/7DqlKR9xmjHUBU7HKftvzfoJtVW.png
http://i1.sendpic.org/i/XM/XM5scU6hH6vgR54NksSZb0FSMl.png

Everything Nvidia (GP104) + Yadif

http://i1.sendpic.org/i/aO/aOdGkJXw19YOYBKSrpkjZTQ3neY.png
http://i1.sendpic.org/i/t5/t5wAnP71ZroM9wC5x4OI4ZoK46u.png

NVidia deinterlacing is introducing strange artifacts that YADIF doesnt. Notice right below the guitar strings, the vertical metalic pieces got an artifact attached right under them, YADIF doesnt have this and neither does AMD.

[BetA13]

So how does it compare to older madVR builds? Is it the same as e.g. v0.91.x? Or was it better some time ago? If so, can you pinpoint the exact version where the issue was introduced?


It's been reported multiple times recently that especially Nvidia GPUs have trouble in madVR with the latest drivers when dynamically downswitching. Various users have reported that setting the GPU to "Adaptive" power seems to fix the problem. Maybe that will also fix your problems?


Hey madshi, i compared the older versions and i can confirm that with version "madVR09201" everything works Perfect..The render queues are quite happy and report that everything is full :)

So, it must be something that was changed from madVR09201 to madVR09202.

Thanks for the Vram GPU information, yes im using ADAPTIVE at the moment. But in some Movies teh Vram just goes down to 300 - 400 Mhz and the Usage goes up to 70 - 85%, wich is normally enough to let the Vram kick back in.. (Sometimes Nvidia really gets on my nerves)


i hope that helps :)

greetz

!!EDIT!!

im sorry, it happened with the older version also. i need to test some more to find the exact version where it started..

my fault, i was too fast to judge..

greetz

[el Filou]

Everything Nvidia (GP104) + Yadif

http://i1.sendpic.org/i/aO/aOdGkJXw19YOYBKSrpkjZTQ3neY.png
http://i1.sendpic.org/i/t5/t5wAnP71ZroM9wC5x4OI4ZoK46u.pngWhy does the OSD say "Frame 40 ms" ? It should say 20 ms as with DXVA deinterlacing. Did you correctly check "50p/60p (Video)" in LAV?

[huhn]

why is the screen upscaled for a deinterlancer comparison?
why is it half frame rate?
why is DXVA scaling used on YADIF which harms quality.

just a bad comparison move on.

[mparade]

@madshi

No idea. Does it also happen with copyback, or with other video renderers?

It was a CUVID/NVDec bug, so it has been encoded in my video....:mad:

[ashlar42]

As far as deinterlacing is concerned, I ended up being unsatisfied with all the real time options at my disposal (YADIF, Nvidia DXVA, Weston). Luckily I do not need lots of deinterlacing and ended up converting all my DVDs with staxrip, using QTGMC interlacing. Now, *that* produces good quality. Too bad it's not usable in a real time scenario.

[Telion]

madshi, the new version started to close video files noticeably slower. It used to be almost instantly but now it takes several seconds when I exit the player or just close the video. It won't be a big problem, but the same delay also takes place on switching between subtitle tracks, which becomes inconvenient when I need to switch between them often. Can something be done about this?

[Oguignant]

in which case should I change (in device properties) from "pc levels 0-255" to "tv levels 16-235"? I set my Nvidia card as RGB limited (connected to my tv) and my Tv as limited (black level: low) but if I set in madvr to "tv levels 16-235" the image is washed. What am I doing wrong?

[huhn]

in which case should I change (in device properties) from "pc levels 0-255" to "tv levels 16-235"?

you only use this if your are outputting full range RGB else it will be wrong and the TV needs to be set to limited range.

I set my Nvidia card as RGB limited (connected to my tv) and my Tv as limited (black level: low) but if I set in madvr to "tv levels 16-235" the image is washed. What am I doing wrong?

you set madVR to limited range RGB it needs to be in full range to work with this sub optimal setup.


if possibile always use full range RGB for everything it is clearly superior and yes there are some people out there that tell you a different story but for madVR full range RGB = win.

[el Filou]

The problem is the graphics card considers everything displayed in Windows as full range so if you select Limited, it converts everything to limited range *at the display output stage*, including madVR output, so you end up with a double conversion to limited range and washed out picture.
If you really need to use Limited on your TV for video and you don't mind having crushed blacks and clipped whites in Windows applications, set your graphics card output to RGB Full, and madVR and TV to Limited. Problem is other things like photos viewing or games will be crushed/clipped so this is only useful for pure video usage really.
If you want to have a correct picture in things other than video, set your graphics card output to Limited and madVR to Full, but this looses quality as the graphics card compresses the range.
Does your TV have issues with RGB Full? That's the best setting for a PC.

[CruNcher]

NVidia deinterlacing is introducing strange artifacts that YADIF doesnt. Notice right below the guitar strings, the vertical metalic pieces got an artifact attached right under them, YADIF doesnt have this and neither does AMD.


If you mean the first one this is a more solid reconstruction like with the strings of the fingers yadif has problems here as like on the strings (vaporize effect, reconstruction holes,missing data)

@huhn
Huhn im waiting for your perfect Yadif result :)

Microphone Pole Angle = Yadif better (way less aliasing)

Fine Strings/ Finger Detail = Nvidia better reconstruction

And the Winner

AMD

Microphone Pole Angle = Not as good as Yadif but better then Nvidia
Fine Strings/ Finger Detail = Better then Nvidia and better then Yadif


It would be interessting if Intel can beat this into a perfect result for both parts :)

[a8213711]

One possible reason for the problems is that madVR isn't sure whether deinterlacing will be needed or not. So madVR ideally wants to activate 59.940Hz, but that mode doesn't seem to be available. However, I guess if the only choices available are 23.976 and 29.970, then I suppose madVR should switch to 29.970. I've tried to reproduce on my PC, but my PC properly switches to 29.970, if only 23 and 29 are available.

Which is the exact list of display modes to switch to in your display's "display modes" tab in the madVR settings? And please create a debug log, zip it, upload it somewhere else (don't attach to this forum) and then link to it here.




Sorry for the late answer.
In 'display modes' I had 1080p160, 1080p159, 1080p50, 1080p30, 1080p29, 1080p25, 1080p24, 1080p23.
The first 2 modes have a '1' in excess, which I forgot to delete after some previous testing! With this config I had 23.97Hz instead of 29.97Hz!
Then I removed the '1' from 160 and 159, and the monitor switched to 59.94Hz, as you suggested; note that I have 'automatically activate deinterlacing' OFF if in doubt.
There is another weird config: with 1080p50, 1080p30, 1080p29, 1080p25, 1080p24, 1080p23 I had 50.0Hz, instead of the more reasonable 29.97Hz!
So I hope it can be improved, thank you.

[steakhutzeee]

I've two questions :
-New screenshot settings in madvr works with the usual F5 key of MPC-BE? Because I can't find any key shortcut for it in madvr.

-in madvr the settings to move subs to the bottom etc. is valid for XySubfilter?

Inviato dal mio ASUS_Z00LD utilizzando Tapatalk

[huhn]

yes it works with mpc-be "F5" it only depends on what API the player is using. looks like MPC-BE is using the "correct" API and it will work.

subtitle moving works in theory with XY subfilter but it is not bug free. another filter with moving subtitles is assfilter mod.
or in short you need a subtitle renderer that supports the "new subtitle interface" and subtitle moving.

[Oguignant]

The problem is the graphics card considers everything displayed in Windows as full range so if you select Limited, it converts everything to limited range *at the display output stage*, including madVR output, so you end up with a double conversion to limited range and washed out picture.
If you really need to use Limited on your TV for video and you don't mind having crushed blacks and clipped whites in Windows applications, set your graphics card output to RGB Full, and madVR and TV to Limited. Problem is other things like photos viewing or games will be crushed/clipped so this is only useful for pure video usage really.
If you want to have a correct picture in things other than video, set your graphics card output to Limited and madVR to Full, but this looses quality as the graphics card compresses the range.
Does your TV have issues with RGB Full? That's the best setting for a PC.

No problem with RGB full, the problem is that all devices connected to an Avr Marantz rs1607 and the Avr connected to a Tv lg c7p (hdmi-arc). if I set the Tv as full RGB and change to another device or enter the Avr menu the color is washed because those devices use Tv levels. I can not find a way to define that some devices use Tv levels and other Pc levels because they all use the same HDMI I/O with ARC, what do I mean? All devices are connected to the avr Marantz and use the same HDMI input.

[huhn]

some way to fix this:
direct connect the PC with the TV and use a second cable for the AVR.

i'm personally not aware of a device that doesn't support full range RGB outout even the cheapest BD i ever used can do this same for every gaming console i used.

some TV have a properly working auto function.

[steakhutzeee]

yes it works with mpc-be "F5" it only depends on what API the player is using. looks like MPC-BE is using the "correct" API and it will work.

subtitle moving works in theory with XY subfilter but it is not bug free. another filter with moving subtitles is assfilter mod.
or in short you need a subtitle renderer that supports the "new subtitle interface" and subtitle moving.Thanks! So you suggest me to use assfilter?

Inviato dal mio ASUS_Z00LD utilizzando Tapatalk

[Oguignant]

some way to fix this:
direct connect the PC with the TV and use a second cable for the AVR.

i'm personally not aware of a device that doesn't support full range RGB outout even the cheapest BD i ever used can do this same for every gaming console i used.

some TV have a properly working auto function.

if it is an alternative. but if I connect the pc directly to the TV, the sound first passes through the TV and then to the Avr and I can not do passthrough of Atmos, Dts-x, Dts-hd, etc because this Tv only does passthrough of Dts and Dolly digital.

This tv has the function of automatic in Black levels if I configure it as pc measures, but in pc mode I lose the functions like de-judde and others

[strumf666]

You misunderstood, 2 hdmi cables from PC one to TV one to AVR.

[el Filou]

@Oguignant : and your other devices are using RGB too? And they have no setting to use RGB Full?
Or does your Marrantz convert everything to RGB even if the other devices output YCbCr?

It would be interessting if Intel can beat this into a perfect result for both parts :)
I tested that sample clip with an Intel HD 3000 and the deinterlacing is better than NVIDIA.
I'm currently rebuilding and reinstalling my desktop so I can't test now but when I'm finished I will compare with AMD's and post pics.

I admit I was disappointed by NVIDIA's DXVA2 deinterlacing when I bought my 1050 Ti, actually believe it or not my antique Radeon 4650 had better deinterlacing. Artefacts on NVIDIA are particularly obvious, especially on SD content.
That's why I hoped D3D11VA deinterlacing could be better than DXVA2 on NVIDIA.
Judging by renderers who support it already, it still looks worse (aliased) than YADIF to me.Could you tell me what other renderers support D3D11VA deinterlacing so I can test?

[Kotik]

I remember when i first got the Intel SkyLake i did try deinterlacing and i got the impression that AMD is still better, i dont remember why but it was some time ago and i guess i run it through comparison tests.....

But would be interesting to see how it compares.

[Oguignant]

You misunderstood, 2 hdmi cables from PC one to TV one to AVR.

If it's the last thing I have left to try. i need more hdmi 4k cables jejeje

[huhn]

Thanks! So you suggest me to use assfilter?

no it is not ready for general use.
i'm saying it will not 100% work in general.

@deinterlancing.

you can blindly assume DXVA2 and D3D11 will be 100 % the same.

i wouldn't be shocked if AMD/nvidia haven't touched the deinterlancer in 5 years. it is not important for the general buyer.
i can say for sure that AMD doesn't care or isn't checking the deinterlancing quality with new driver. in the first crimson driver is was bilinear.