madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Skwelcha]

Don't set madVR to 16-235. Set the dynamic range in CCC to Limited 16-235 and see if that fixes your issue.

I guess you mean the dynmaic Range under Video Settings, forogt to mention it, but it is already set to 16-235 like madshi recommended on the first Page... changing this to 0-255 didnt make a difference btw..

@ Xaurus

hmm could be the same problem then... but that would be pretty disappointing for a receiver with an uvp of 550€, 3d support and even an information window which actually recognizes that the receiver gets a 4:4:4 RGB 8bit input...

[SamuriHL]

I guess you mean the dynmaic Range under Video Settings, forogt to mention it, but it is already set to 16-235 like madshi recommended on the first Page... changing this to 0-255 didnt make a difference btw..


Yup, that's what I meant. Ok, well, that's no fun if it didn't help. I thought I'd mention it just in case.

[Andy o]

My Marantz SR5006 can only pass through 0-255 yCbCr, not 0-255 RGB.

That seems bass-ackwards. IMO receivers should just pass through the video, not try to be "smart" and output whatever they think is right.

[Colomba]

How have you tested and concluded it's madVR? Have you tried other decoders? It could also be a certain combination of filters or settings.
It occurs when using exclusive mode, I have V-Sync forced off in the global driver settings. Never had this smooth playback before thou. I have 1080p24, 1080p50, 1080p60 listed in displaymodes.

EDIT: Changed V-Sync to forced on, issue gone. Thank you all...

[Andy o]

As far as I can tell, the dynamic range setting in the video section of CCC only affects DXVA deinterlaced videos. madshi has said before that madVR will adjust itself automatically to get the correct levels though, and it worked like that for me. I presume the difference is that with 16-235 set, madVR will do the expansion, and with 0-255 it will be done by DXVA.

[fairchild]

Don't set madVR to 16-235. Set the dynamic range in CCC to Limited 16-235 and see if that fixes your issue.

You are confusing Pixel Format with dynamic range in CCC. As another poster mentioned, the dynamic range in the video settings only has an effect with MadVR when it is doing DXVA2 deinterlacing.

The problem Skwelcha is experiencing is that his receiver apparently doesn't handle RGB 4:4:4 or 0-255. I have a similar issue with my plasma, it doesn't seem to be able to handle RGB Full (4:4:4) properly. In order for me to get correct black levels I can either set Pixel format to RGB Full + set MadVR to 16-235 (the display expects the following RGB output level: TV levels (16-235))

or

Pixel format to RGB Limited + set MadVR to 0-255 (the display expects the following RGB output level: PC levels (16-235))

The lesser of the two evils and provides the best picture quality (as well as giving WTW) is the first option.

[SamuriHL]

As far as I can tell, the dynamic range setting in the video section of CCC only affects DXVA deinterlaced videos. madshi has said before that madVR will adjust itself automatically to get the correct levels though, and it worked like that for me. I presume the difference is that with 16-235 set, madVR will do the expansion, and with 0-255 it will be done by DXVA.

That's entirely possible.

[SamuriHL]

You are confusing Pixel Format with dynamic range in CCC. As another poster mentioned, the dynamic range in the video settings only has an effect with MadVR when it is doing DXVA2 deinterlacing.


No, I wasn't confused. I was simply wrong. :)

[Skwelcha]

I just tried your config fairchild and set the Pixelformat to limited RGB & madvr to 0-255, exactly the same result :/ no flashing bars from 0 - 25..

[fairchild]

I just tried your config fairchild and set the Pixelformat to limited RGB & madvr to 0-255, exactly the same result :/ no flashing bars from 0 - 25..

Try pixelformat to Full RGB and then madvr to 16-235... Then you may have to try different settings on your receiver and/or TV.

Ultimately on the black clipping pattern you want 17-25 to be flashing (with 17 just barely flashing/visible) and in the white clipping pattern you want at minimum 230-234 flashing. (on my setup I have 230-253 flashing)

Obviously different patterns have different settings, the above is when using the AVS HD709 calibration disc/patterns.

[Skwelcha]

Well, there are no settings on the receiver to change, at least nothing usefull in this regard. So in the end that means i have to live now with the limited output for madvr or buy me a different/better receiver? That's really stupid... maybe i will send Denon a mail in hope for a firmware update or something like that...

[Mikey2]

Got my new Denon AVR-1912 Receiver today and encountered a new problem... Before i used the HDMI passthrough of the receiver to get my signal to the TV my configuration was like this: ATI CCC set to 4:4:4 Full RGB output, lav video set to untouched levels, madvr set to 0-255 output and for my TV the same, RGB 0-255. When I took a look on a black clipping test video with this configuration i could see the flashing fields from like 16 to 25(which is the maximum of this test pattern). But now with the new a/v receiver i can't see clipping even on 25 with the same configuration... When i set madvr now to 16-235, the flashing fields get visible again from about 15 to 25... Does that mean the receiver cant output FULL RGB?

Ahh colorspace issues, the most ubiquitous problem in all of HTPC-land.... ;)

First off, I am confused, did you mis-type some of the numbers? You should be having problems from 0-15 on the black side and 236-255 on the white-side (hence the 0-255 "full" resolution" and 16-235 "limited" resolution.)

Does your display allow all color-spaces? (My Pioneer Kuro allows all four: RGB0-255, RGB16-235, 4:4:4, 4:2:2) If so, then regardless of any limitations on your receiver, you should be able to compensate and watch any movie etc in full resolution/quality...but one has to be careful with this.

You might just be missing BTB/WTW ("blacker than black"/"whiter than white") signals, in which case you should be ok. Basically, it merely applies to test screens and not to any actual videos since a source video (in its normal state) will never send a signal below 16 nor above 235. If this is the case, even if you don't see all of the test pattern, you can [and should!] still use a full-range signal. One way to test this is to set Madvr to 16-235 and see if the image appears "washed-out" (e.g. a black background would appear grey.)

I have an NVidia video-card, but still I know that any card-settings in the card's configuration will only apply to Hardware decoding. However, the main reason I mention this is that NVidia cards used to expand the colorspace to 0-255 rather than clip off the low/high values (BTB/WTW.) Madvr for instance performs an expansion when setting 0-255; however, remember this is the last rendering step, so ones needs to watch-out that some other filter may also be doing an expansion. This is called "double-expansion" and causes one to lose the low and high-ends of the signal especially if your receiver is clipping the data. I mention this here since AFAIK the only reason test-patterns include WTW/BTB even though they are never really seen is to test for double-expansions...

If my hunch is correct, then my Yamaha RX-V1800 receiver had this exact problem (hence why I am taking the time to respond to this.) Enough of us complained that they released a firmware upgrade just so we can look at our test patterns (which again is the only place we actually see BTB/WTW...) (For an A/V receiver without internet access, firmware upgrades are very drastic procedures only used for critical problems...if I fully understood the issue (or lack thereof) I probably would not have taken the chance on the update.)

You should look at avsForum, there should be an "official" thread on your receiver; that is where I found my information on this. If not, someone there with your receiver should be able to tell you if you are expanding (thus losing forcing you to 16-235) or just clipping signals you would not see in the first place.

I hope this helps!

[Skwelcha]

my TV just has the option RGB - extended (0-255) and limited (16-235). And no i didnt confuse the numbers, it actually doesnt even flash on 17-25... so there's really something wrong... I searched on avs and there is a thread for the 1912, but i couldnt really find a answer to my problem... But i will post my problem there too i guess. The picture does indeed looks washed out if i switch to 16-235 in madvr, but like i said in 0-255 there isnt even a flashing between 17-25...

[dansrfe]

On my Panasonic Vierra Plasma the option to change between 0-255 and 16-235 is so vague that I want to call Panasonic and tell them to just put the technical terms there instead of putting (Light/Dark).

[jmone]

If I change the default of Luma Upscaling from Lanczos to something like SoftCubic then the Intel IGP HD3000 has no issues and the queues are fine. Looks like the extra work on non-square pixels is just too much for this IGP with Lanczos

FYI - Dropping the number of Taps to 3 also works.

[SamuelMaki]

my TV just has the option RGB - extended (0-255) and limited (16-235). And no i didnt confuse the numbers, it actually doesnt even flash on 17-25... so there's really something wrong... I searched on avs and there is a thread for the 1912, but i couldnt really find a answer to my problem... But i will post my problem there too i guess. The picture does indeed looks washed out if i switch to 16-235 in madvr, but like i said in 0-255 there isnt even a flashing between 17-25...

Your TV isn´t calibrated right;) Try increase brightness while in 0-255 as long as you can see 17-25 flashing... You may have to decrease contrast if your colours are wrong/change TV´s rgb-settings...

[Skwelcha]

I tried that already, there are no flashing bars with madvr 0-255....

EDIT: tried out ycbcr 4:4:4 and madvr 0-255, now i have at least flashing bars from 17 onwards

[Weirdo]

For me DVD playback works only with ffdshow audio processor. So I have MPC-HC, madVR, LAV Audio, Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder, ffdshow audio processor, and DVD navigator (WIN 7 64bit sp1)

EDIT:
It works without ffdshow audio processor when we set ffdshow video decoder as decoder for DVD :) img (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/MPC-HC/dvd.png)
I cannot enable DXVA deinterlacing for DVD's on my ATI 5670 like this without breaking sth. When LAV Video and/or madVR are used, I get the macrovision error. The Microsoft DTV-DVD decoder only works with EVR, and it's the only solution. With EVR custom there are no DVD subtitles and the menus are not displayed correctly. Using mpc-hc 1.5.2.3456.

[tauka]

Hi guys,

i need some help from the clever ones :) i searched this topic for "gpu", but couldnt find a perfect answer.
I have a hd3850 video card, and when i use madvr, sometimes it just isnt enough. i see that the cpu works around 50%, so obviously the gpu gives me a hard time (and rivatuner shows this too).
So my question is, which gpu is the (minimum) recommended one for madvr? Actually, i want to use madvr as the default renderer for "everything" (720p@60, 1080p high bitrate bluray), and right now i just cant, cause it drops tons of frames in these cases..
I suspect there is no definite answer to this one, so i might rephrase it: what capabilities should a card have to be madvr "compliant"? :) size of memory, core clock, depends on architecture, etc...?
as i mentioned, i have a hd3850 right now, and i'm comparing cards based on this site: http://www.hwcompare.com/
This list is only based on memory bandwidth, but you can get better comparison too like this: http://www.hwcompare.com/5955/radeon-hd-3850-1gb-vs-radeon-hd-6850/
so what do you recommend (only in the perspective of high quality video playback, i dont care about gaming at all)

thanks in advance!

(back story: i bought an hdmi capable receiver, and i cant output mch pcm/dtshdma/etc from my hd3850. 2 solutions: new motherboard with built in gpu and hdmi out, or new card. first option is actually a no go, cause i would get a better cpu (right now e6750) with weaker gpu, and that would make things even worse with madvr. so new graphics card is the way to go, i guess)

[kasper93]

@Weirdo: Try with exactly the same filters like here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/MPC-HC/dvd.filters.png) but DXVA is not in use anyway.

I see that you recommended to set limited range 16-235 in CCC, are you sure that is good idea? Or maybe I misunderstand something? :)
deinterlacing on (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/MPC-HC/deinterlacing.on.png) || deinterlacing off (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/MPC-HC/deinterlacing.off.png)
When full range is set lighting is the same when deinterlacing is on and off.

@madshi: There is a bug with progress bar and time in MPC-HC. Pause video and click on step button few times. Time doesn't update at all or it updates and keep going but video is still paused. Works fine with EVR-CP.

[Weirdo]

Thanks kasper93, but I still get Macrovision fail with madVR.

[rm2kpro]

Hi guys,

i need some help from the clever ones :) i searched this topic for "gpu", but couldnt find a perfect answer.
I have a hd3850 video card, and when i use madvr, sometimes it just isnt enough. i see that the cpu works around 50%, so obviously the gpu gives me a hard time (and rivatuner shows this too).
So my question is, which gpu is the (minimum) recommended one for madvr? Actually, i want to use madvr as the default renderer for "everything" (720p@60, 1080p high bitrate bluray), and right now i just cant, cause it drops tons of frames in these cases..
I suspect there is no definite answer to this one, so i might rephrase it: what capabilities should a card have to be madvr "compliant"? :) size of memory, core clock, depends on architecture, etc...?
as i mentioned, i have a hd3850 right now, and i'm comparing cards based on this site: http://www.hwcompare.com/
This list is only based on memory bandwidth, but you can get better comparison too like this: http://www.hwcompare.com/5955/radeon-hd-3850-1gb-vs-radeon-hd-6850/
so what do you recommend (only in the perspective of high quality video playback, i dont care about gaming at all)

thanks in advance!

(back story: i bought an hdmi capable receiver, and i cant output mch pcm/dtshdma/etc from my hd3850. 2 solutions: new motherboard with built in gpu and hdmi out, or new card. first option is actually a no go, cause i would get a better cpu (right now e6750) with weaker gpu, and that would make things even worse with madvr. so new graphics card is the way to go, i guess)


I'm interested in the exact same thing. I have a 5 year old home theater oriented PC with a E6400 and X1600. madVR also makes my graphics card to drop frames all the time.

X1600 Score: [276] (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+X1600)

Your GPU: HD 3850: Score: [787] (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+HD+3850)

I thought about a new GPU and evaluated many options. I think a passively cooled HD 6670 would be perfect for me since it is cheap, inaudible, and quite powerful.

HD 6670: Score: [1249] (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+HD+6670)


Can someone with a HD 6670 confirm that it is powerful enough for madVR? Else I'm going to buy it and report here.

[spuncut]

Don't know much about AMD GPU's, but you need a Nvidia GT450 to cope with 1080i60(30) H/W deinterlacing.
As for me, I almost never encounter 1080i60(30) so I use a Nvidia GT430.

[mr.duck]

Can someone with a HD 6670 confirm that it is powerful enough for madVR? Else I'm going to buy it and report here.

Don't buy it. GPUs have been stuck at 40nm for YEARS. We are right on the verge of having 28nm GPUs available. So wait just a bit more (january-ish).

[noee]

fwiw, my HD6570 is awesome with madVR but I don't use 3DLUTs right now...

[kasper93]

I've just loaded an MKV with ASS subtitles and played it in MPC-HC, then I've opened/activated Subresync, but the Subresync window stayed empty. To be honest, I've no clue what Subresync is, how it works, what purpose it has, what madVR has to do with it, or what I'm supposed to do.

I'm sorry to bother you with that again. But I missed your last answer, and now I want to respond. :)
You should load external MicroDVD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroDVD) subtitles to see a problem. There is a problem with ConvertToTimeBased() function because of wrong FPS. I looked into it and ("m_fps") value is set to "25.0" by default so it need to be overwrite with actual fps of a movie. I'm not a programmer and I really don't know how the whole thing works but that was easy to fix so I made patch (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/MPC-HC/madVRAllocatorPresenter.cpp.patch) for MPC-HC and now everything works good :)

[dansrfe]

Don't buy it. GPUs have been stuck at 40nm for YEARS. We are right on the verge of having 28nm GPUs available. So wait just a bit more (january-ish).

+1 on that

[omarank]

Try the "clean-up video timings database" button in Reclock's advanced settings.

Also, info on your hardware/software/OS/drivers is always good to provide.

EDIT: if the above doesn't fix it, since you said CPU is high, maybe ReClock is maxing it out when doing resampling? Check ReClock's CPU usage and if possible lower the output sample rate and/or interpolation quality.

You guessed it right. CPU is the bottleneck in my system. When I changed the interpolation quality in ReClock from "best sync" to "fast sync," the video playback became perfect.:thanks:

My system info:
nvidia GTX 260, Pentium D 3.0 GHz, Win 7 32 bit, mpc hc 1.5.3.3856, LAV filters + madVR + ReClock, nvidia driver version 285.62

[dansrfe]

You guessed it right. CPU is the bottleneck in my system. When I changed the interpolation quality in ReClock from "best sync" to "fast sync," the video playback became perfect.:thanks:

My system info:
nvidia GTX 260, Pentium D 3.0 GHz, Win 7 32 bit, mpc hc 1.5.3.3856, LAV filters + madVR + ReClock, nvidia driver version 285.62

You have a very old/partly slow CPU. I hope you're using LAV CUVID to decode.

[cyberbeing]

madshi,

With the release of madVR 0.80 or soon after, can we get an updated version of madVR [benchmark] which supports benching the internal decoders and possibly now dxva deinterlacing as well? It's now been around 6 months since the initial version of madVR [benchmark] was released, so it's about time to get a new version which supports all the new madVR functionality since then.

[MSL_DK]

Hi ... If I set MadVr to change resolution for example. 1080p24 and leaves the exclusive mode show CTRL+J 60Hz. My monitor switches to 24Hz but MadVr shows 60Hz in windowed mode and movie stutters. Is this normal? and yes, the movie is 23,976 :-)

EDIT:

Sometimes it can also display compositipn rate 30Hz even though the screen running 1080@24th If I use autofrequency, so there is no problem.

MPC-HC 1.5.2.3456
ReClock 1.8.7.7
Lav Decoder 0.42
MadVr 0.79

[omarank]

You have a very old/partly slow CPU. I hope you're using LAV CUVID to decode.

yeah, I use LAV CUVID.. thanks to my GPU, I can play all kinds of demanding videos with my old, slow and boiling CPU :)

[tauka]

Don't buy it. GPUs have been stuck at 40nm for YEARS. We are right on the verge of having 28nm GPUs available. So wait just a bit more (january-ish).

Yeah, that's great, but actually 2012Q2 is 4 months away, and even then there will be entry level cards with weaker performance than my current hd3850. So im still interested in what seems to be the bottleneck for madvr in a gpu?

[G_M_C]

Yeah, that's great, but actually 2012Q2 is 4 months away, and even then there will be entry level cards with weaker performance than my current hd3850. So im still interested in what seems to be the bottleneck for madvr in a gpu?

My guess would be number of shaders and their speed.

And fyi: my HD5770 (mid range when bought, cheap low level now it's 'a generation ago') does ~18500 on 3dmark06, your hd3850 does ~9000. So stating that your 3850 performs equal to a cheaper more current version doesnt compute ...

[mr.duck]

My guess would be number of shaders and their speed.

Yup, this. But what about memory bandwidth?

[G_M_C]

Yup, this. But what about memory bandwidth?

See my edit: my 5770 only has 128 bit memory bus, but still performs 2x as fast as the 3850 that has 256 bit. But my memory is faster.

All in all 3850->~53 Gb/s vs. 5770 ->77 Gb/s. So indeed, part of the difference comes from that, the rest must be because of the difference in shaders.

[MSL_DK]

Regarding: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1542861#post1542861

I just found out that it also happens with autofrequency. What does composition rate?

[fairchild]

Regarding: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1542861#post1542861

I just found out that it also happens with autofrequency. What does composition rate?

This happens to me also on my 5830, the composition rate will sometimes change to 30hz which in turn makes the video very choppy. The only solution for me is to always to use MadVR with exclusive mode. :D

[MasterNobody]

madshi
Hi. Can you look why this sample (http://www.mediafire.com/?7do9qzdvbuae34l) crash MadVR but works correctly with Haali's Video Renderer

Software:
madVR v0.79
LAV 0.42
MPC-HC
Windows XP SP3

[nevcairiel]

This happens to me also on my 5830, the composition rate will sometimes change to 30hz which in turn makes the video very choppy. The only solution for me is to always to use MadVR with exclusive mode. :D

Can also turn off Aero, then there is no composition rate. :)

[SoBizarre]

Can also turn off Aero, then there is no composition rate. :)

Can also use Windows XP, then there is no Aero. :)

[dansrfe]

madshi
Hi. Can you look why this sample (http://www.mediafire.com/?7do9qzdvbuae34l) crash MadVR but works correctly with Haali's Video Renderer

Software:
madVR v0.79
LAV 0.42
MPC-HC
Windows XP SP3

There is nothing wrong with your sample. It works just fine.

[SoBizarre]

the composition rate will sometimes change to 30hz which in turn makes the video very choppy.

30Hz is really a bitch, isn't it? :scared: 60Hz is not that bad, but 30Hz is just unwatchable.
Anyway, I got so used to opening twice the first file (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1540009#post1540009), i don't want to hear about any fixes. :D:D

[fairchild]

Can also turn off Aero, then there is no composition rate. :)

Yeah that is a workaround, the problem then is any streaming video I watch online has massive tearing. (youtube, netflix, etc.)

[cyberbeing]

madshi
Hi. Can you look why this sample (http://www.mediafire.com/?7do9qzdvbuae34l) crash MadVR but works correctly with Haali's Video RendererThere is nothing wrong with your sample. It works just fine.

On WinXP SP3 it crashes madVR 0.79 when using LAV Video, FFDShow, MPC-HC internal, Divx/Mainconcept, or Elecard decoders.

CoreAVC 3.0.1 doesn't crash with YV12 output, but YUY2, RGB, etc always crash.

All have a vertical green line on the right side of the image.

It would appear that one of the old madVR anamorphic aspect ratio bugs has resurfaced.

[pirlouy]

And in general, you have several display problem with Aero disable. I advise you to keep Aero, and if you have troubles (for example with VSync), just disable Aero for the application.

When you have choppy video, try to move one window a little bit, it help recover normal fps.

[MasterNobody]

There is nothing wrong with your sample. It works just fine.
Crash here everytime at around 5th second or seek:
http://i39.tinypic.com/246nrf4.png

Btw. I use only LAV Video so splitter is internal of MPC-HC (with windows standard AVI splitter crash immediately at start).

P.S. Debug version log (http://www.mediafire.com/?80dbpa8zq9of44q) but I doubt it is useful in this case.

[golagoda]

Crash here everytime at around 5th second or seek:
http://i39.tinypic.com/246nrf4.png

Btw. I use only LAV Video so splitter is internal of MPC-HC (with windows standard AVI splitter crash immediately at start).

P.S. Debug version log (http://www.mediafire.com/?80dbpa8zq9of44q) but I doubt it is useful in this case.

I suggest trying a more up to date build of MPC-HC, the latest is r3884 and you're on r3677.

[QBhd]

If you guys want to disable Aero for watching videos... just use madVR's general settings under rendering and select "disable desktop composition (Vista and newer)" and select "only when media player is in fullscreen mode".... works like a charm

QB

[dansrfe]

@ALL and @madshi

Ok so after updating MPC-HC and ffdshow to the latest builds as of 12/5/11 I have concluded that the qdvd.dll included within Windows 7 does NOT give Macrovision errors.

Having said that I would like to point out that the input fps shown in madVR's OSD comes up as "movie 25.000 fps [says source filter]" for ALL DVDs REGARDLESS of it being an NTSC (29.970 fps) or PAL (25.000 fps) disk. This is just plain wrong and causes MAJOR problems for those of us trying to sync the refresh rate to 23.976 Hz (for Progressive NTSC) or 29.970 Hz (for true interlaced NTSC) or 23.976 Hz (for 3:2 pulldown telecine [after madVR deinterlaces the video and inverse telecines it with the GPU]) or 25 Hz (for a PAL disk).

Now I still don't know whose problem this is and who should solve it and where in the chain it should be solved. I hope madshi can shed some light on this so this inherent problem with DVDs and using navigators can be permanently solved.