madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[actarusfleed]

Hi Guys,
Is There any benefit if we activate any kind of dithering when madvr outs 10bit signal?

Dithering works better in the 10bit domain??

Thank you

Inviato dal mio SM-N9005 utilizzando Tapatalk

[Warner306]

Hi Guys,
Is There any benefit if we activate any kind of dithering when madvr outs 10bit signal?

Dithering works better in the 10bit domain??

Thank you

Inviato dal mio SM-N9005 utilizzando Tapatalk

Ordered dithering still has a place at 10 bits. madVR outputs at 16 bits, so there is room to dither to 10 bits.

[Firebird]

Hey madshi, thanks for madVR! Do you mind feature requests? I have a video which was IVTC'd (not by me), but it still has duplicate frames. When i force film mode on it it doesn't seem to work well. Tdecimate works though. It's not a deal breaker, but it's annoying. Can you fix this? i'll send you video sample if you need it.

[Asmodian]

Hi Guys,
Is There any benefit if we activate any kind of dithering when madvr outs 10bit signal?

Dithering works better in the 10bit domain??

Thank you

Inviato dal mio SM-N9005 utilizzando Tapatalk

To elaborate on what Warner306 said: The difference between the various dithering methods is much less significant when in 10-bit and Ordered dithering is very high quality when using 10bit output. Dithering does work better in the 10bit domain because there is less difference between the steps.

Random dithering is also a reasonable option with 10bit but both Error Diffusion options are overkill.

[Sunspark]

Hi, I was mucking about with the Intel's custom refresh rates today. Basic mode, not Advanced (don't yet have enough information on entering properly for that one). Stock EDID from monitor.

Much to my surprise, I found that in basic mode using CVT-RB timing on my displayport to VGA adapter, I could select refresh rates of 56p to 68p in the Intel Windows 7 driver at a resolution of 2048x1152. I was hoping to be able to get 23,24,48 or 50, but no such luck, I don't get it. You'd think a lower refresh rate would need less bandwidth. The monitor itself confirms that these #s have changed.

According to MadVR the timings for these refreshes are:

56p- 55.990
57p- 56.995
58p- 57.951
59p- 58.953
60p- 59.909
61p- 60.908
62p- 61.959
63p- 62.956
64p- 63.909
65p- 64.999
66p- 65.992
67p- 66.944
68p- 67.935

Am I right in assuming that all these timings are useless except for the rate of 60p?

[Warner306]

Hi, I was mucking about with the Intel's custom refresh rates today. Basic mode, not Advanced (don't yet have enough information on entering properly for that one). Stock EDID from monitor.

Much to my surprise, I found that in basic mode using CVT-RB timing on my displayport to VGA adapter, I could select refresh rates of 56p to 68p in the Intel Windows 7 driver at a resolution of 2048x1152. I was hoping to be able to get 23,24,48 or 50, but no such luck, I don't get it. You'd think a lower refresh rate would need less bandwidth. The monitor itself confirms that these #s have changed.

According to MadVR the timings for these refreshes are:

56p- 55.990
57p- 56.995
58p- 57.951
59p- 58.953
60p- 59.909
61p- 60.908
62p- 61.959
63p- 62.956
64p- 63.909
65p- 64.999
66p- 65.992
67p- 66.944
68p- 67.935

Am I right in assuming that all these timings are useless except for the rate of 60p?

Yes, you might be right. But I think it is both 59p and 60p. Although, madVR likely chooses one or the other in most cases. Anything film or video can range anywhere from 59.94 Hz -> 60 Hz.

[omarank]

Random dithering is also a reasonable option with 10bit but both Error Diffusion options are overkill.
Well, I don't consider Error Diffusion options to be overkill at 10 bit. I find Error Diffusion at 10 bit to be a visual delight. On my Sony W800B TV the difference between ED2 at 8 bit and ED2 at 10 bit is rather obvious to my eyes. In fact, the difference between ED2 and ED1 at 10 bit is also perceptible on this system. With ED2 at 10 bit, the extremely low dithering noise makes the image details like the skin texture look sharper and more real and the pop effect is also greater. I may not have words to describe what I see but I can say that it adds more realism to the images.

I should also mention that I had to use the dither hack on my AMD system for 10 bit to work properly. If you test on a Sony TV, make sure that you disable “SBM” in the TV settings as it adds some noise to the images.

[x7007]

Hi, I have windows 10 x64, been using madvr with potplayer x32 till now, I wanted to check something, but trying the same settings like potplayer x32 , madvr crashes, the video is black, the sound is playing. getting

Faulting application name: PotPlayerMini64.exe, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x5614d5b9
Faulting module name: ntdll.dll, version: 10.0.10586.122, time stamp: 0x56cbf9dd
Exception code: 0xc0000374
Fault offset: 0x00000000000ee6dc
Faulting process id: 0x26b0
Faulting application start time: 0x01d19de20cb17028
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\DAUM\PotPlayer\PotPlayerMini64.exe
Faulting module path: C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll
Report Id: 6f340c3c-7671-4dea-b4cb-c193e9ee90fd
Faulting package full name:
Faulting package-relative application ID:

and MadVR error screen with debug.



EDIT : Seems disabling Chroma NNEDI3 fix the issue.. even when using DXVA Write-Back. so NNEDI3 can't work in CUVID and Potplayer/MPC x64 anymore ?

[huhn]

CUVID is broken under windows 10.

CUVID doesn't work any more when any program uses openCL.

copyback plus nnedi3 should work

[actarusfleed]

Well, I don't consider Error Diffusion options to be overkill at 10 bit. I find Error Diffusion at 10 bit to be a visual delight. On my Sony W800B TV the difference between ED2 at 8 bit and ED2..... .

Hi guys,
So you suggest to always use madvr@10bit... Also with panels natively at 8bit??

[aufkrawall]

Many people can't find any difference between ED and ordered dithering. The chance is high that you waste a lot of GPU processing power for very little to non gain.
imho it only makes sense if you have a bad display/projector regarding banding that should be fed with bitdepth <8.
Since movies are 8 bit (except of UHD BDs) and are often badly mastered, you would need the deband filter to get rid of most banding anyway.

[Stereodude]

Hi guys,
So you suggest to always use madvr@10bit... Also with panels natively at 8bit??
If your display doesn't support 10bit, don't use 10bit. You need to test 10-bit and see if your display / video card support it. This thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172128) has instructions and a test. Basically you're doing a visual check using a gradient ramp. If the ramp is smoother in 10-bit than 8-bit then your video card and display probably supports 10-bit. Only if it supports 10-bit should you use it.

[Stereodude]

Well, I don't consider Error Diffusion options to be overkill at 10 bit. I find Error Diffusion at 10 bit to be a visual delight. On my Sony W800B TV the difference between ED2 at 8 bit and ED2 at 10 bit is rather obvious to my eyes. In fact, the difference between ED2 and ED1 at 10 bit is also perceptible on this system. With ED2 at 10 bit, the extremely low dithering noise makes the image details like the skin texture look sharper and more real and the pop effect is also greater. I may not have words to describe what I see but I can say that it adds more realism to the images.
The difference between ED and the less expensive ordered dithering options is very hard to see in 8-bits. They're only going to be that much harder to see in 10-bits. Most people would be better off using their GPU horsepower on other features in madVR. However, if you're happy with using ED2 in 10-bits more power to you.

[Sunspark]

Yes, you might be right. But I think it is both 59p and 60p. Although, madVR likely chooses one or the other in most cases. Anything film or video can range anywhere from 59.94 Hz -> 60 Hz.

Today I spent awhile with the advanced custom resolutions of the Intel driver to understand it.

I am able to get 59.00 and 60.00 but nothing in-between unless I leave it at the "stock" of 60 in which case it will be 59.91 and I understand why now.

The reason is because Intel in all their wisdom, has decreed that Scan Rate shall be to 0 decimal places.

This is provable. Once you have numbers, whether from the cvt spreadsheet, or cru tool and enter them in.. the pixel clock in gray, that # * 1000 then / by the total horiz at the bottom that gives you the horiz scan rate, then / that # by the vertical total * 1000 gives you the vert scan rate you were allowed to enter. You can only enter integer #s.. no decimals.

You can play with the other values all you like, the Intel panel will fight you and change the pixel clock to make sure you end up with the integer value exactly.

E.g. 159.90336 Pixel Clock * 1000 = 159903.36 / 2208 Horiz Total = 72.42 kHz Scan Rate / 1207 Vert Total = 60 Scan Rate

153.0144*1000 / 2208 = 69.3 / 1155 = 60 Again

No fractional refreshes! Thanks Intel!

[CarlosCaco]

Today I spent awhile with the advanced custom resolutions of the Intel driver to understand it.

I am able to get 59.00 and 60.00 but nothing in-between unless I leave it at the "stock" of 60 in which case it will be 59.91 and I understand why now.

The reason is because Intel in all their wisdom, has decreed that Scan Rate shall be to 0 decimal places.

This is provable. Once you have numbers, whether from the cvt spreadsheet, or cru tool and enter them in.. the pixel clock in gray, that # * 1000 then / by the total horiz at the bottom that gives you the horiz scan rate, then / that # by the vertical total * 1000 gives you the vert scan rate you were allowed to enter. You can only enter integer #s.. no decimals.

You can play with the other values all you like, the Intel panel will fight you and change the pixel clock to make sure you end up with the integer value exactly.

E.g. 159.90336 Pixel Clock * 1000 = 159903.36 / 2208 Horiz Total = 72.42 kHz Scan Rate / 1207 Vert Total = 60 Scan Rate

153.0144*1000 / 2208 = 69.3 / 1155 = 60 Again

No fractional refreshes! Thanks Intel!

In my system a broadwell hd 5500 after spent a lot of time i can achieve 23.976, 24, 25, 29.970, 30, 50, 59.954 and 60 but the 23.976 morde is locked to 24 so i made a 24 morde and the drivers automatily give me also a 23.976 mode same to 29.97 locked to 30

[x7007]

CUVID is broken under windows 10.

CUVID doesn't work any more when any program uses openCL.

copyback plus nnedi3 should work

The thing is Potplayer x64 + NNEDI3 CopyBack doesn't work, it crashes.

Potplayer x86 (32bit) + NNEDI3 CopyBack works fine.

[domigr]

Hello guys!!! Why i can't see any tap option if i choose jinc??

[huhn]

because they where removed from madVR.
only the good jinc3 is left.
the rest was pretty bad anyway.

[domigr]

because they where removed from madVR.
only the good jinc3 is left.
the rest was pretty bad anyway.

and why it says jinc not jinc3? :P

[chros]

No fractional refreshes! Thanks Intel!
Welcome to the club! :)
You can join to many pissed off users here: https://communities.intel.com/thread/78158?start=60&tstart=0
And here: https://communities.intel.com/thread/25904?start=105&tstart=0

[huhn]

and why it says jinc not jinc3? :P

because the numbers of tabs are meaningless if you can't change them. i guess...

this jinc implantation has 3 tabs.

[aufkrawall]

I found anti-bloating with low strength useful for high SuperRes strength with high scaling factors, image looks a bit more natural with it. :)
Maybe it also helps a bit against aliasing problems with some sources + SR.

[Warner306]

I found anti-bloating with low strength useful for high SuperRes strength with high scaling factors, image looks a bit more natural with it. :)
Maybe it also helps a bit against aliasing problems with some sources + SR.

What do you think of this comparison? It contradicts your finding that SuperRes requires anti-bloating: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1762283#post1762283.

[aufkrawall]

What do you think of this comparison? It contradicts your finding that SuperRes requires anti-bloating: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1762283#post1762283.
It definitely doesn't require A-B of 100%, it basically removes the whole SR effect which makes it pointless.
But quadruple something and SR with strength of 4 on top. Black lines in cartoons start to look a bit odd, little soften with A-B 25% on top of SR looks more natural.

Edit: However, that guitar picture demonstrates well that anti-ringing for SuperRes hardly has any effect. It just wastes performance for hardly more than nothing.

[x7007]

So if NNEDI3 looked good for me, and I can't it, what would look the same or better ?

I still have no idea what to use in madvr, I don't know what to look in the picture, but I just need comparison for correct settings so I won't do more harm, like not using something that shouldn't be using.

[aufkrawall]

super-xbr, anti-bloating 25 + SuperRes 1 looks very similar to NNEDI3.

[Betroz]

super-xbr, anti-bloating 25 + SuperRes 1 looks very similar to NNEDI3.

Or : super-xbr, anti-bloating 50 + SuperRes 3

[Warner306]

super-xbr100 + AR with SuperRes looks very similar to NNEDI3 + SuperRes. Adding SuperRes is the equalizer.

[har3inger]

I'm finding SXBR antibloat to be detrimental to video quality. It seems to enhance source ringing even more than SXBR does by itself, at least in my usage, which employs Superres 3.

Source (pulled a random 720p lineart off google images)
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/steven-universe/images/3/3e/Steven.Universe.S01E29.Secret.Team.720p.WEB-DL.AAC2.0.H.264-RainbowCrash.mkv_snapshot_08.02_-2014.12.01_10.02.24-.png/revision/latest?cb=20141201071446

SuperXBR 100, 150 bicubic downscale with LL and AR, SR3. (Chroma is bilat + SR2)
http://imgur.com/eSxqopE

Everything exactly the same, except SuperXBR is now SXBR antibloat 100%
http://imgur.com/AjoKSY6

Look at every edge. Sometimes the ringing is straight up enhanced, sometimes the ringing is clipped narrower, but with a hard edge. Overall, the effect is a more prominent halo around every single line.

Edit: Ah what the hell, why did imgur turn my pngs into jpegs? Well, you can still sort of see the problem.

Edit2:
Antibloat: https://i.imgsafe.org/47e4848.png
No Antibloat: https://i.imgsafe.org/7724446.png

[aufkrawall]

Or : super-xbr, anti-bloating 50 + SuperRes 3
SuperRes 3 is more expensive than 1, thus I don't see the reason to achieve it that way.

super-xbr100 + AR with SuperRes looks very similar to NNEDI3 + SuperRes. Adding SuperRes is the equalizer.
super-xbr 100 bloats dark lines way more than NNEDI3 and SuperRes doesn't make them really equal in that matter. With my images, super-xbr A-B 25 + SR comes quite closer to NNEDI3 than super-xbr 100 + SR without A-B.

[*Touche*]

SuperRes 3 is more expensive than 1, thus I don't see the reason to achieve it that way.


super-xbr 100 bloats dark lines way more than NNEDI3 and SuperRes doesn't make them really equal in that matter. With my images, super-xbr A-B 25 + SR comes quite closer to NNEDI3 than super-xbr 100 + SR without A-B.

Agreed. Super-xbr AB25 + SuperRes 1 looks the best and closest to NNEDI3 to me.

[x7007]

Where do I enable the Anti bloating filter and Anti-Ringing filter, in Image Enhancements ? or Upscaling refinement , what is the different between the two. I have upscaling refinement SuperRes 1 all other unselected, Refine the image only once after upscaling is complete. I have no idea what to choose else or why.

Do I enable Super-Rez and Anti-rining in Chroma Uspcaling too ? there are so many places to enable it.

[Warner306]

Agreed. Super-xbr AB25 + SuperRes 1 looks the best and closest to NNEDI3 to me.

Can you produce test images? I have hard time noticing any difference when super-xbr or NNEDI3 is combined with SuperRes.

[Warner306]

Where do I enable the Anti bloating filter and Anti-Ringing filter, in Image Enhancements ? or Upscaling refinement , what is the different between the two. I have upscaling refinement SuperRes 1 all other unselected, Refine the image only once after upscaling is complete. I have no idea what to choose else or why.

Do I enable Super-Rez and Anti-rining in Chroma Uspcaling too ? there are so many places to enable it.

Try the guide in my signature.

[x7007]

Try the guide in my signature.

Hi , thanks, but it still messy for me to understand.

I watch normally 1080p

I use Super-Xbr which suppose to be the right one or NEDI is better ?
Should I enable anything in image enhancements if I watch 1080p or is it for 720p with downscaling things ?
In chroma upscaling do I need to enable SuperRes filter there too ? default is 3. currently SuperRes enabled + AA.

I use Downscaling - Lanczos , should I use SSIM ? AA + SL enabled on Relaxed.

Image doubling not enabled cause I still have no idea what or how it works.

Image upscaling - Jinc AA , should I enable sigmoidal light ?

Upscaling refinement is enabled all the time for 1080p and 720p ? currently SuperRes enabled , no LL - AB - AR .
Refine the image only once after upscaling is complete.

What should I change from here or between, should I follow up on those terms instead reading and won't understand why. cause I just want to see movies now and not mess around with it and get worse quality and won't know why or what settings. my english is not my 1st language. hebrew is

thanks

[QBhd]

Hi , thanks, but it still messy for me to understand.

I watch normally 1080p

I use Super-Xbr which suppose to be the right one or NEDI is better ?
Should I enable anything in image enhancements if I watch 1080p or is it for 720p with downscaling things ?
In chroma upscaling do I need to enable SuperRes filter there too ? default is 3. currently SuperRes enabled + AA.

I use Downscaling - Lanczos , should I use SSIM ? AA + SL enabled on Relaxed.

Image doubling not enabled cause I still have no idea what or how it works.

Image upscaling - Jinc AA , should I enable sigmoidal light ?

Upscaling refinement is enabled all the time for 1080p and 720p ? currently SuperRes enabled , no LL - AB - AR .
Refine the image only once after upscaling is complete.

What should I change from here or between, should I follow up on those terms instead reading and won't understand why. cause I just want to see movies now and not mess around with it and get worse quality and won't know why or what settings. my english is not my 1st language. hebrew is

thanks

There isn't a one size fits all, or else there would be no options. Try one thing at a time, watch something and if it looks better keep using it. If that setting made things look worse, stop using it... It's not rocket science.

QB

[x7007]

There isn't a one size fits all, or else there would be no options. Try one thing at a time, watch something and if it looks better keep using it. If that setting made things look worse, stop using it... It's not rocket science.

QB

ye, but it's time without science. and time as we know is a lot of money or fun sometimes.

[nussman]

Just use the default settings if you are not willing to spend some time in reading and testing.
There is no "best" setting.

[Warner306]

If you don't want to spend time learning this software, you will have difficulty understanding if you are improving the image or not. It is important to at least have a working definition of each setting so you know what to look for when it's enabled.

[Dodgexander]

Anyone using MadVR for live TV?

I am using it with a DVB-T2 tuner in the UK with MPC-HC and channels broadcast both in h264 and mpeg2 streams, no matter what I get dropped frames, albeit very very occasionally. I have an Ivy Bridge i5 with HD4000 graphics and have set image up-scaling/downscaling to DXVA and chroma up-scaling to Bilinear but it still drops frames.

I wondered if anyone else has had this problem, is it just Live TV? I have tried so many times to eliminate the problem, windowed mode, dx11 mode, exclusive mode etc.

[ikarad]

How adjust hdr peak luminance option in madvr?
must I select the same nits like my display or select ramdomly or other?
I have an ips 8bit display with contrast equal to 800 and 120cd.

[AngelGraves13]

I wonder if there's a way to convert SDR video to HDR and expand it's dynamic range from 100 nits to about 300 nits, which is what some high end monitors can do. It might bring out the highlights more. I'll wait for madshi's input on the matter.

[AngelGraves13]

How adjust hdr peak luminance option in madvr?
must I select the same nits like my display or select ramdomly or other?
I have an ips 8bit display with contrast equal to 800 and 120cd.

Sounds like your monitor is calibrated for 120 nits, since 1 nt = 1 cd/m2. I'm also assuming you meant 120 cd/m2.

[ikarad]

Sounds like your monitor is calibrated for 120 nits, since 1 nt = 1 cd/m2. I'm also assuming you meant 120 cd/m2.

Yes, my monitor is calibrated for 120nits but I would like to know if in madvr option I use the same nits or not.

I have tried with HDR movie example and at 120nits, it's too bright but I don't know if with a true HDr tv, it's like that or not.

With life of pi HDr eample available on http://demo-uhd3d.com/
120nits
http://img11.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_653717120nits.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=653717120nits.jpg)
400nits.
http://img11.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_710784400nits.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=710784400nits.jpg)

[nevcairiel]

Just pick whichever nits setting looks best on your particular screen, there is no universal answer, or there wouldn't be as many options. Its generally higher than the 120 nits though, even if one might assume that would fit since SDR screens are calibrated for that.

[nussman]

Anyone using MadVR for live TV?

I am using madVR for live TV with DVBViewer Pro and DVB-S/S2.
Works perfect here, so madVR is ready for live TV. :)

[hu1kamania]

Anyone using MadVR for live TV?

I am using it with a DVB-T2 tuner in the UK with MPC-HC and channels broadcast both in h264 and mpeg2 streams, no matter what I get dropped frames, albeit very very occasionally. I have an Ivy Bridge i5 with HD4000 graphics and have set image up-scaling/downscaling to DXVA and chroma up-scaling to Bilinear but it still drops frames.

I wondered if anyone else has had this problem, is it just Live TV? I have tried so many times to eliminate the problem, windowed mode, dx11 mode, exclusive mode etc.

Have you tried different deinterlacing settings within Lav Filters, and MadVR? That can make a difference as well.

I use MadVR with JRiver Media Center, but MPC-HC should work just as well.

[Dodgexander]

I am using madVR for live TV with DVBViewer Pro and DVB-S/S2.
Works perfect here, so madVR is ready for live TV. :)
Thanks, yes I've used madVR before with live TV but recently I get dropped frames.
Have you tried different deinterlacing settings within Lav Filters, and MadVR? That can make a difference as well.

I use MadVR with JRiver Media Center, but MPC-HC should work just as well.
Yes, I've tried forcing video detection in settings and also deactivating deinterlacing but it doesn't help. At first I thought it was a problem using the hardware decoder in lav but using no hardware acceleration I still get the same problem. I've tried with hardware deinterlacing too.

I'm not sure what the problem is, it happens so irregularly. I know when changing between programs and adverts it happens but that's a separate issue related to switching between progressive and interlaced broadcasts. This is happening whilst watching 1080i25 broadcasted snooker. I would guess every half hour or so there is a slow down with some jumped frames, rest of the time is fine with rendering queues and times up to scratch. My Max render time has been 1.2s

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[AngelGraves13]

Yes, my monitor is calibrated for 120nits but I would like to know if in madvr option I use the same nits or not.

I have tried with HDR movie example and at 120nits, it's too bright but I don't know if with a true HDr tv, it's like that or not.

With life of pi HDr eample available on http://demo-uhd3d.com/
120nits
http://img11.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_653717120nits.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=653717120nits.jpg)
400nits.
http://img11.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_710784400nits.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=710784400nits.jpg)

I'd probably go with 265 nits, as 400 seems a bit dark sometimes, but it might be the best choice and closest looking to SDR once converted.

[CarlosCaco]

hey people, about 3dlut calibration
tomorrow i gonna try again make a 3dlut, the last experience was bad... i got an old i1d2 and an lcd hdtv that don´t have rgb sliders or any colour controls...
what is the best config in dispcal gui?
should i set all to as measured and disable the interactive display adjustments? or should try using the rgb controls from intel cp?

and the tone curve? should i set as measured?
in profiling should i use black point compesation?
can somenone help me? the colorimetry is not mine and i don´have much time for testing possible configurations..

ps: my tv don´t support full range, and the best config i found is set madvr to tv levels and intel to full range... there something i should do in dispcalgui to match this settings?