madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[brazen1]

Nothing is perfect huhn. But most things are more perfect than their predecessors. I can assure you, I don't care what panel you purchase today or what it looks like out of the box. The difference is night and day compared to the B/W Zenith console of days gone by. To pick apart the imperfections of modern TV's compared to what they used to be is silly. To look at the two side by side, one would be considered perfect. I suppose in todays modern times, you could side by side compare a $75,000 commercial editing monitor next to your $10,000 retail OLED and gawk at how imperfect it is.

Most of us are already splurging a couple grand for a TV even though the money would be spent more wisely elsewhere. Not all of us are concerned about every conceivable drawback. We strive for the best perfection no matter what we have and madVR is a great tool that can be applied to any environment to make up for these imperfections. Some worse than others, some better. Even the studios post produce imperfections because nothing is perfect. A purists idea of perfection is unaltered. They love the inaccuracies. I don't and any chance to alter them to be less is closer to perfection in my opinion.

Audiophiles prefer vinyl depth and analog needles against plastic grooves bouncing up and down scratching the sound to a speaker. This is Alexander Graham Bell tech. It's been replaced. Is it perfect? No, but it's subjectively better. I had a blown injected 426 Hemi once that got 1/4 mile to the gallon. I thought it was perfect. Now I drive a Prius. A to B it's perfect.... unless you're in a hurry.

[Quiet]

I'll watch an untouched original film rather than a restored one with all the grain removed. Anyday.

[huhn]

because a screen cost 400 bucks doesn't mean it can't be calibrated "perfectly".

if take a mastering display a cheap 400 buck calibrate them and put a out of the box 3k bucks TV next to them you have one that looks like garbage guess which one.

[starlight2]

If i want Watch film 4k in the Fullhd with downscaling madvr...this is possible?this is best quality vs 1080p materials to display fhd? Thank you

[huhn]

depends on the content but potential yes.

[giulianoprs]

I did not want to open a discussion for the "grain" that a certain film or TV series may have, I chose "the walking dead" just because in the registration phase there, I wanted to test the potential of madvr with determined situations, and thank all for the recommended advice and settings, unfortunately today the pc indeed windows 10 if blocked, no longer starts, that bad luck, I have to format and install all the software from the beginning, Ugh!

[Redemption80]

Processing the grain out of remaster of old films is something that happens, but it usually gets met with so much abuse and one star rating for the BluRay etc... that it tends to put studios off too much tinkering. It still happens though.

I don't mind grain if it's not excessive but i will always favour a film source over a digital video source unless it's a sporting even.
I have even added it via post processing when dealing with lower quality sources as it helps hide other artefacts and creates the the illusion of more detail. I don't think that is the case with Walking Dead, i don't know about now, but to start with the show was filmed on 16mm film, which will always be grainy.

Anyway, that is not why i came her to post, and it's more of a question for Nvidia users.
is it just me, or does anyone else think we will be stuck with 390.77 forever.

I'm not much of a gamer these days, but i'm still considering going back to dual booting and creating a gaming and HTPC partition.

[amichaelt]

Only is if the grain is the result of the director's intent.

Even if it wasn't, the grain can't be removed without impacting actual detail. One just has to look at the plasticky, waxy-faced Blu-rays that have been DNRed to see this. Or just watch the Terminator 2 Ultra-HD Blu-ray. It just looks like a waxy mess.

[JarrettH]

Grain *is* the picture :D

[ryrynz]

Time to reign in the main topic boys.

[Quiet]

Okay, back to the topic.

Is it possible to use this kind of LUT's (.cube) in madVR by converting or directly:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ezzdqrvjsjn9ury/cubelut.cube?dl=1

[huhn]

the 3d lut has to be created from something. it's more likely you can create something from "this".
madVR supports eecolor or madVR 3D LUTs.

while it is clearly possible to create a 3d LUT from that file for madVR i doubt someone spends the time to write such a program.

[mkohman]

Guys please don't shoot me for asking this question but I really need clarification in order to ensure I am using the correct setting when doing HDR to SDR in madVR...

In the calibration tab of madVR am I supposed to have the "display calibrated" checked and select BT2020 from the drop down menu or am I supposed to select "disable calibration control for this display"?

When disabled, playing HDR content really pops and the HDR looks amazing apart from people's faces being slightly reddish then usual with gamma set to 2.4 with my JVC with gamma set to normal that sorts it out but...

When I have "this display is calibrated" and I select BT2020 from the drop down menu on madVR then the HDR to SDR looks like normal SDR and the HDR effect is barely there....which is the correct setting that's needs to be applied in madVR please? Thank you..

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[huhn]

did you calibrate your projector to bt2020.
if not you don't tell madVR that it is calibrated for that.

[mkohman]

did you calibrate your projector to bt2020.
if not you don't tell madVR that it is calibrated for that.Thank you.. No I haven't calibrated my JVC at all.. It's out the box as it is.. I take it that I don't tell madVR that it's calibrated and select the "disable calibration controls for this display"? Do you know how to sort out the overly saturated reds in the skin tones? Do I need to select Gamma as Normal as apposed to 2.4? Thanks

Here is what my JVC information is displaying.. It still says BT2020 but SDR as I am converting HDR to SDR with madVR does that look OK?

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[Ver Greeneyes]

The option "disable calibration controls for this display" just makes madVR do slightly less work to present correct colors, the idea being that if your display isn't calibrated then anything madVR does to correct the color output is a waste of time. But if your display is calibrated to a particular standard out of the box and you think it's reasonably accurate, you should select "this display is already calibrated" so madVR does the extra work. The performance difference isn't big.

[huhn]

your display claims the input signal is bt2020.
there could be a lot of reason for that one for example you told your projector the input colorspace is bt2020 in this case madVR should be set to bt 2020 too.
than we have a line saying HDR type SDR and HDR meta data...
what ever is going on here this is not what SDR should provide.

i can't tell you anything about gamma here gamma 2.4 without calibration is just something unknown same for normal could be gamma 2.14 with a "nice" S curve.

[mkohman]

your display claims the input signal is bt2020.
there could be a lot of reason for that one for example you told your projector the input colorspace is bt2020 in this case madVR should be set to bt 2020 too.
than we have a line saying HDR type SDR and HDR meta data...
what ever is going on here this is not what SDR should provide.

i can't tell you anything about gamma here gamma 2.4 without calibration is just something unknown same for normal could be gamma 2.14 with a "nice" S curve.The movie being displayed is 4K HDR.. I am using RGB FULL 4.4.4 on my GPU end at 12bit colour.. The projector can do BT2020 for HDR and REC709 for SDR..

What I am doing is converting HDR to SDR with madVR in order to get a better tone mapping as the HDR mode in JVC projectors are dark and not very pleasing..

As mentioned before with the colours space set to BT2020 in madVR, the image looks like SDR but when it's not selected (disable calibration controls for this display) then with HDR movies the colours pop and seem very nice apart from skin tones being slightly red than usual..

What I am asking is for those who use madVR to convert HDR to SDR, do you select the display calibration option for this display or select this display is not calibrated? Thanks.. Hope this makes sense... 163921639316394

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[huhn]

your projector is currently saying SDR with HDR meta data and BT 2020.

and here i repeat again the projector thinks the input is BT 2020 and if this is true you will get messed up colors when SDR is send without telling madVR your device expects BT 2020 resulting is messed up skin colors and a vivid mode like colors. because madVr will convert the input source to BT 709 for SDR.

the calibration tap depends on your screens setting and behaviour not if you are using HDR->SDR conversation or not.

there is only one major difference between SDR and HDR and that is brightness.

so if you want a brighter image on a screen that can't even do SDR brightness like most projector try a lower gamma or a lower peak display nits setting. "colors" are the same between SDR and HDR.

[mkohman]

your projector is currently saying SDR with HDR meta data and BT 2020.

and here i repeat again the projector thinks the input is BT 2020 and if this is true you will get messed up colors when SDR is send without telling madVR your device expects BT 2020 resulting is messed up skin colors and a vivid mode like colors. because madVr will convert the input source to BT 709 for SDR.

the calibration tap depends on your screens setting and behaviour not if you are using HDR->SDR conversation or not.

there is only one major difference between SDR and HDR and that is brightness.

so if you want a brighter image on a screen that can't even do SDR brightness like most projector try a lower gamma or a lower peak display nits setting. "colors" are the same between SDR and HDR.Ok thanks for your help.. In that case are you suggesting that I should have BT2020 selected on madVR as well then? Thanks

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[Warner306]

The colors might be oversaturating with it turned off. Enhanced colors produced by BT.2020 (DCI-P3) should be subtle compared to BT.709. The difference in gamut size is only 26%. It all depends on what color space you set your projector to. You should match that in madVR.

It is more likely the gamma is different with calibration controls disabled. When disabled, the gamma defaults to 2.20. When active, I think you are using a 2.40 gamma. Try changing the gamma setting in madVR with calibration controls enabled. It should produce a similar result. You don't have to match the gamma of your projector for HDR -> SDR. And the gamma setting won't impact SDR playback.

[gfxnow]

I just bought a variable refresh rate monitor. When playing 23.976 content should I set the monitor's refresh rate to 48Hz to avoid judder from 3:2 pulldown? Normally it's set at 60Hz.

[SamuriHL]

Try it and see how it works. I use 48Hz on my plasma screen and it works fairly well.

[mkohman]

The colors might be oversaturating with it turned off. Enhanced colors produced by BT.2020 (DCI-P3) should be subtle compared to BT.709. The difference in gamut size is only 26%. It all depends on what color space you set your projector to. You should match that in madVR.

It is more likely the gamma is different with calibration controls disabled. When disabled, the gamma defaults to 2.20. When active, I think you are using a 2.40 gamma. Try changing the gamma setting in madVR with calibration controls enabled. It should produce a similar result. You don't have to match the gamma of your projector for HDR -> SDR. And the gamma setting won't impact SDR playback.Thank you for this.. I will definitely try it [emoji106]

Stupid question.. Is DCI - P3 same as BT2020? When I press ctrl+j to see what madVR is displaying it says BT2020 -> DCI P3 is that what it's supposed to be? Thanks

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[amichaelt]

Stupid question.. Is DCI - P3 same as BT2020?

No, different colorspaces.

Rec.2020
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/CIExy1931_Rec_2020.svg/529px-CIExy1931_Rec_2020.svg.png

DCI-P3
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/DCI-P3_D65.svg/529px-DCI-P3_D65.svg.png

[huhn]

DCI P3 is not the same as BT 2020 far from it.

it is most likely processing in DCI p3. there is no screen that can do BT 2020 and even DCI p3 is barely doable-

[mkohman]

DCI P3 is not the same as BT 2020 far from it.

it is most likely processing in DCI p3. there is no screen that can do BT 2020 and even DCI p3 is barely doable-Hmmm I see.. Even though my JVC says BT2020 u guess it can only do DCI P3 then....?

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[mkohman]

No, different colorspaces.

Rec.2020
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/CIExy1931_Rec_2020.svg/529px-CIExy1931_Rec_2020.svg.png

DCI-P3
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/DCI-P3_D65.svg/529px-DCI-P3_D65.svg.pngThank you [emoji106]

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[mv]

Hi guys!

Can anyone please point me in direction of solving following issues.
I'm trying to use MPC-BE + madVR + external LAV filters to watch IPTV from my internet provider (UDP multicast stream).

1 problem is that with some channels, and most disappointing the channel that is broadcasting TV matches, playback stops after several seconds. To be clear - nothing crashes, playback just stops when using madVR as render (with other renders playback doesn't stop).
Other channels seem to work fine. Moreover, after oppening m3u playlist with several channels and switching them back and forth non-working channels seem to start working. Any ideas?
2. Deinterlacing done by madvr produce artefacts on moving objects. Clearly visible with moving text on news channel. Is it unavoidable or maybe I could tweak de-interlacing options somehow?
3. Before playback starts it hiccups for second or two with static picture. Tried to increase-decrease queu size and enable/disable option 'delay playback until render queue is full' but it doesn't help

Thanks!

[huhn]

are you using d3d11 for decoding?

[mkohman]

Guys apologies in advance if this is going to ruffle some feathers or if this topic has been discussed before....

My current setup is as below :

HTPC >JVC

My HTPC is set to RGB FULL 444
madVR set to 0-256 10bit
JVC projector set to Enhanced / RGB

LAV filters also set to 0-256

My JVC info panel displays RGB when a movie is being played, however everyone else's seems to be showing YUV???

I have Googled JVC YUV OR RGB and in the images section of Google they all seem to display 12bit colour and YUV where as mine displays 12bit RGB...

I use KODI DSPLAYER with LAV filters which are also set to 0-256.. Basically everything in the chain is set to RGB FULL 4.4.4...

Can someone please tell me if this is correct and if so why does everyone else's displays information tab show the colour space as YUV?

Thanks [emoji4]

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[huhn]

because you are sending RGB.

changing the settings in lavfilter to RGB is a very very dumb idea leave it at default.

[mkohman]

because you are sending RGB.

changing the settings in lavfilter to RGB is a very very dumb idea leave it at default.Thanks but, I think it was at 0-256 by default in lav filter.. shall I change that to 16-235? Also shall I change madvr to 16-235? and keep my HTPC at RGB FULL 4.4.4 and JVC input level Enhanced? Thanks

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[huhn]

Thanks but, I think it was at 0-256 by default in lav filter.
the point is not this setting alone it doesn't do anything with madVR but with a combination of other settings. but for what ever reason you like to change everything that is fine by default and correct by default.

Also shall I change madvr to 16-235? and keep my HTPC at RGB FULL 4.4.4 and JVC input level Enhanced?

sounds wrong to me.

[mkohman]

No offence but what you have just written makes absolutely no sense.. I don't understand what you're trying to say. I am asking a very simple question and in return I got a string of sentences which made absolutely no sense to me.. Sorry..

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[littleD]

Can someone please tell me if this is correct and if so why does everyone else's displays information tab show the colour space as YUV?
http://madshi.net/htpc/page4.html and consider Ycbcr as yuv for simplicity

[mkohman]

http://madshi.net/htpc/page4.html and consider Ycbcr as yuv for simplicityThanks for this. Much appreciated but still no idea which to select for madVR or lav filters? Should they be YCbCr or rgb? Thanks

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[huhn]

the YUV or RGB you see at your projector has nothing todo with madVR or lavfilter. it just tells you what the GPU is sending and RGB is fine.

use the default settings for this madVR lavfilter they are there for a reason.

[mkohman]

the YUV or RGB you see at your projector has nothing todo with madVR or lavfilter. it just tells you what the GPU is sending and RGB is fine.

use the default settings for this madVR lavfilter they are there for a reason.Thanks

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[mkohman]

Judging by the images attached below which were both taken from the Kodi Wikipedia Website... I understand that this should be correct :

Desktop set to RGB FULL 4.4.4

madvr set to 0-256

Lav filter and JVC projector set to 16-235

I'll be happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.. Thanks for all the input..

1639616395

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[huhn]

when madVR and the GPU driver are set to full range you need to set your projector to full range. i guess they use the word enhance.

lavfilter has nothing to do with this.

just read this: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1271416&postcount=2

attachment need admin approval no one will see them.

[mkohman]

when madVR and the GPU driver are set to full range you need to set your projector to full range. i guess they use the word enhance.

lavfilter has nothing to do with this.

just read this: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1271416&postcount=2

attachment need admin approval no one will see them.Cool.. Thanks.. So I will leave everything as it is

Everything at FULL..

Cheers [emoji106]

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[mv]

are you using d3d11 for decoding?

Same issue with D3D11 or DXVA Copy-Back. But with D3D11 decoding de-interlacing is not enabled for some reason neither in madVR or LAV so switched to DXVA Copy-Back for now.
Tried to encrease buffer size in LAV splitter but thats is not the case.

[huhn]

d3d11 doesn't support deinterlancing that'S why i ask.
can you make a screen of the OSD?

[Redemption80]

Nvidia users who use custom modes, i know while most people were having issues with the driver rejecting this mode, some were not.

What are other Nvidia users doing now? I pretty much stuck with 390.77 for 6 months but out of curiosity i have been testing 398.11 and again can only use the EDID timings. Saying that, while my OCD dislikes the fact i have went from drops every few days to every 12mins, if im honest i can't say i actually noticed them over the course of average TV show.

Anyone who knows anything about drivers think this is a permanent change to the drivers that we will have to just live with?

[nevcairiel]

Create modes in the NVIDIA control panel, that works on all driver versions for me.

[veggav]

Found this statement:

"My main problem with a 4:2:2 transport over HDMI is that a PC is always RGB, and a 4:2:2 transport is YCbCr, so when you play something on a PC the player converts the YCbCr file to RGB, then the graphics card converts it to 4:2:2 YCbCr for HDMI, and the TV again converts it to RGB, its two extra conversions that may (and do) incur extra loss on the image, and has the potential for mis-matching conversion matrices even throwing off your colors entirely."

Is this accurate?
It's impossible to have true YCbCr on PC?

[huhn]

not perfectly accurate but close enough.

you can't use YCbCr from source to HDMI on a PC.
the solution is simple just use RGB output.

[nevcairiel]

Is this accurate?
It's impossible to have true YCbCr on PC?

This is correct. PCs at least on any configuration that can run madVR are always RGB.

[veggav]

Thanks
This clears some stuff for me to understand

If I set nvidia control panel to "let colors settings be set by application" I believe this will set color based on my TV edid.

I know about chroma subsampling test to see if it' 4:4:4 or 4:2:0.

Is there a way to know if in this situation my pc is using RGB or YCbCr?