madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[madjock]

So you found out it was an update, but yet still re-installed ?

What update was it, and what problems do you refer to ?

[Damien147]

I have a fake hdr 4k display and wonder which option is more beneficial.

Option 1:Create a BT.2020 3dlut in calibration tab and use tone map HDR using pixel shaders.
Option 2:Tone map HDR using external 3dlut.

Is option 1 more beneficial or they offer the same thing?

[mambans]

I recently noticed that HDR on win 10 seems to work better now. It automatically switches to HDR and Exclusive fullscreen mode is also ON for HDR. :)

[Alexkral]

Is option 1 more beneficial or they offer the same thing?

They don't offer the same, most notable differences are, with option 1:

- Dynamic tone mapping.
- Highlight recovery.
- Tone map in RGB if you want.
- Dynamic target nits in latest beta.

And with option 2 (and a DisplayCAL 3dlut):

- Plenty of adjustable options for HQ gamut mapping and saturation correction.
- Possibility of using the original BT.2390 roll-off.
- Adjustable black output offset.

The most beneficial depends on what you give more importance, so you'll have to experiment.

[tp4tissue]

mastering screen are usually IPS 1000:1 screen like the eizo coloredge series there are other screen that are not IPS yes there are but that's not the point.


Most colorizing for older big movies were done on crt/ plasma

Then they moved to OLED and Dolby Pulsars LCD for HDR.

I don't think they'd use an Eizo ips, unless it was a secondary side monitor while grading on projector.

They WOULD USE an Eizo LMCL IPS, this is not 1000:1, these are 1,000,000:1, for HDR

Soon, LMCL LCD from Hisense.. Affordable + no burnin. Oled can finally die.

What would be really nice.. would be LMCL + Curved + VA + Strobe

[tony359]

using HDR mode on projector is not recommended.

I appreciate your recommendation.

But if I wanted to ignore your advice and make it work? Do you know why HDR does not work when full screen?

Thanks.

[el Filou]

Projectors don't have the brightness/contrast to accurately reproduce HDR like flat panels can, so they have to tone map to what ends up being very close to SDR, and most don't do a very good job of it so madVR doing the tone mapping and outputting in SDR will give a much better quality.

[ryrynz]

Soon, LMCL LCD from Hisense.. Affordable + no burnin. Oled can finally die.


Finally die? OLED is here for decades.. LMCL LCD in a TV soon? :rolleyes:

[mclingo]

Most colorizing for older big movies were done on crt/ plasma

Then they moved to OLED and Dolby Pulsars LCD for HDR.

I don't think they'd use an Eizo ips, unless it was a secondary side monitor while grading on projector.

They WOULD USE an Eizo LMCL IPS, this is not 1000:1, these are 1,000,000:1, for HDR

Soon, LMCL LCD from Hisense.. Affordable + no burnin. Oled can finally die.

What would be really nice.. would be LMCL + Curved + VA + Strobe

i'd certainly like to see OLED get some competition finally, mine is nearly 5 years old now and still no burn in.

I'd probably agree OLED will probably be slowly phased out like plasma when a better tech comes along, I'm not sure we are there yet.

I'd really love to see 3D come back at some point though, OLED 3d is still the best visual experience i've ever had, beating even the cinema IMHO, this is why I still have my 2015 3D OLED.

[SirMaster]

I have a fake hdr 4k display and wonder which option is more beneficial.

Option 1:Create a BT.2020 3dlut in calibration tab and use tone map HDR using pixel shaders.
Option 2:Tone map HDR using external 3dlut.

Is option 1 more beneficial or they offer the same thing?

Option 1 will give a much better result, especially with the latest madVR test builds with dynamic tone-mapping.

[Damien147]

Ok,I will try option 1 next time I calibrate.Now I am with option 2(do I still have calibrated picture?)
Thank you.

@Alexkral

I thought it was more straightforward and wasn't specific enough.I just want calibrated picture + tone map HDR.
Thank you.

[redbtn]

There is a lot new settings for HDR in test build. I don't understand most of them. Can I adjust HDR > SDR so that bright scenes or objects have less brightness without reducing the overall brightness?

[ashlar42]

I'd probably agree OLED will probably be slowly phased out like plasma when a better tech comes along, I'm not sure we are there yet.
Samsung has recently announced it will begin OLED production, with a different technology than LG. Once Samsung gets on board, it's kind of unlikely that we will see OLED's demise in the near term. Even the next 5 years appear to be quite unlikely.

[ryrynz]

Not even remotely likely. They aren't just gonna give up on billions of dollars worth of gear and investment just because something better comes along. Ya know how Capitalism works.. You pay a premium for new stuff and old stuff is given planned obsolescence. OLED isn't anywhere near the same position as previous "outdated" display technologies. OLED production is ramping up and being invested heavily into.. It's here for a long time, it might even see you out. It's still top dog right now and that ain't changing soon.

i'd certainly like to see OLED get some competition finally

Something with better motion resolution would be great. CRTs and plasmas still far excel current flat screen technologies. Instead we'll see even more brightness, color range and improvements on price and power draw and processing which will lead to incremental improvements but should help with more people seeing great image quality. Seems like we're reaching a plateau.

[tp4tissue]

Not even remotely likely. They aren't just gonna give up on billions of dollars worth of gear and investment

Samsung has recently announced it will begin OLED production, with a different technology than LG. Once Samsung gets on board, it's kind of unlikely that we will see OLED's demise in the near term. Even the next 5 years appear to be quite unlikely.

The reason OLED is being pushed isn't because they're GOOD, it's because they're cheaper to make, much cheaper than LMCL LCD.

OLED will become the poor man's TV given time, while LMCL takes the Top End.

This is good and bad news. Good because, it's still a nice technology, and looks quite nice overall. Bad because it will hinder LMCL which is what we REALLY WANT..

I've seen an eizo 3145 in person, it is without a doubt THE FUTURE. Sustained 1000nit highlights, no dimming, per pixel backlight , a GODLY sight to behold. Point is, throw enough money at it, ANY LMCL LCD can push that 1000nit in 2 years. No amount of money will get you sustained 1000nit on OLED, not without some danger of burnin. On the LMCL , you can roll 1000nit all day, every day for as long as those LEDs will push 1000nits. Try that with an OLED, you'll have burnin within minutes.

For Anyone who claims their oled hasn't burned in, you're basically babying/ not using it, that's not living, that's OLED prison.

[ryrynz]

Cheaper to make is what sells, they are good at their respective price point, nobody really is complaining that we don't have TVs that are on an equal level to professional mastering monitors, we're pretty damn close as it is which some of our actual screens actually being used in the grading process. Not sure about OLED specifically being the poor mans TV, maybe quantum dot, depends on what's cheaper.

It all depends on what the companies decide to push and put money into.. incremental upgrades only thanks to Capitalism, revolutionary stuff planned decades from now, gotta milk them cows until death.

[el Filou]

Nobody needs to 'roll 1000 nits all day' because no real content is sustained 1000 nits (and also I care for my eyes).
I also don't 'REALLY WANT' LMCL because it is LCD and LCD has inherent flaws that adding another liquid crystal layer won't change.
A tech may well be a 'GODLY sight' for colour grading in a studio and not necessarily be good for enjoying content at home.

[huhn]

wow there is a screen with more CR that can do a 1000 nits.
with an response time of just "typical" 10 ms and that's there specs. are screens like these present yes but that doesn't change that the majority of mastering screen is not even close to that.
there is a sony OLED (not LG WRGB) that can do far more then DCI p3 and is even able to display a true interlaced images do you have 100 of them no you don't.

your eyes doesn't care about 1000 nits even 10000 the outside is quite bright at worst you will get night blind for a very short time...
the real issue of 10000 nits or even 1000 is power consumption.

[SirMaster]

Nobody needs to 'roll 1000 nits all day' because no real content is sustained 1000 nits (and also I care for my eyes).
I also don't 'REALLY WANT' LMCL because it is LCD and LCD has inherent flaws that adding another liquid crystal layer won't change.
A tech may well be a 'GODLY sight' for colour grading in a studio and not necessarily be good for enjoying content at home.

You want the ability for the display to do 1000 nits or soon 4000 nits.

It doesn't mean the picture is any brighter, it means that elements within the picture can be shown brighter.

Movie makers don't encode large bright areas like skies at 1000nit, but they do encode things like explosions and lights and things like that at 1000 nits or close to it.

[mclingo]

The Panasonic GZ2000 OLED can his 1000 nits, lower and mid range OLEDs hit around 6-900, my 2015 hits just over 400 peak.

Thing is, in a pitch black room you really dont needs loads of nits, it more about dynamics and contrast.

My dad just bought a Samsung Q85, its a fantastic TV but I still prefer my ageing OLED in a pitch dark room for SDR and HDR.

Subjective though I know, I guess those who like a bit of bias lighting would be better off without an OLED.

For me though, any light source other than the TV takes me right out of what i'm watching though, I have led power lights masked off and black walls around the TV, its looks better than you might think.

[el Filou]

...I know all that, and that's why I reacted like I did to tp4tissue's comment about 'sustained 1000 nits all day' or whatever. Consumer displays don't need to output sustained full field 1000 nits.your eyes doesn't care about 1000 nits even 10000 the outside is quite bright at worst you will get night blind for a very short time...
the real issue of 10000 nits or even 1000 is power consumption.But HDR is mastered to be viewed in a dim environment, and the effect of viewing a very high brightness picture in an dim or dark environment is much less comfortable than being outside under high ambient light. Think about having a torch directed at your face at night.

It may just be me being paranoid, but I'm afraid that if most displays start being able to output sustained full field very high nits, some producers may start requesting making the overall picture brighter to give a movie more impact, even at the risk of sacrificing dynamic range. Like what happened with audio CDs but applied to video.For me though, any light source other than the TV takes me right out of what i'm watching though, I have led power lights masked off and black walls around the TV, its looks better than you might think.I had to do that with my old CRT which had a fricking bright *blue* power LED! Thankfully the LEDs of my current hardware and the VFDs on low brightness are tolerable.

[Grimsdyke]

Sorry if this is explained somewhere but I did not find it.
Does anyone know how to use RUNTIME in a madVR profile ?? Just tried (runtime=91) but this did not work. Thanks

[el Filou]

Maybe it's better to use <= and => with runtime? I don't know if madVR considers seconds and if so how it rounds up. You have to match an exact runtime?

[Grimsdyke]

Thanks el Filou, rounding up and <= work !!

[tony359]

Projectors don't have the brightness/contrast to accurately reproduce HDR like flat panels can, so they have to tone map to what ends up being very close to SDR, and most don't do a very good job of it so madVR doing the tone mapping and outputting in SDR will give a much better quality.

I appreciate everybody input on this -I do! - but I'm sure you'll understand I'd like to try that by myself so my question stands: why is my system not running HDR when full screen? Any help very appreciated! Thx

[Klaus1189]

Not running HDR? If madVR tonemaps the projector will not display „HDR“ in OSD of the device.

[tony359]

I set HDR to passthrough. I get the whole desktop automatically turning to HDR and projector can see that. But only in windowed mode. When full screen it goes back to SDR.

[Klaus1189]

What GPU and what driver version do you use excatly?

[tp4tissue]

Heads up guys, i1Display Pro was recently on sale for $155 (after rebate), record low price $135 (no rebate) a few black fridays ago.

This black friday, look out for bhphoto (seller) or adorama (seller) sales on rakuten (marketplace) (bf coupon stack).


Movies are unwatchable without Madvr's greatest feature, 3DLut.

[madjock]

Movies are unwatchable without Madvr's greatest feature, 3DLut.



Wow. :D

[chros]

Movies are unwatchable without Madvr's greatest feature, 3DLut.
So, you don't watch HDR content, right? :D
Just kidding, I know what you mean.

[Manni]

So, you don't watch HDR content, right? :D
Just kidding, I know what you mean.

You can't use a 3D LUT in HDR because you use passthrough, but if you tonemap to SDR you can use a 3D LUT with pixel shader, I do :)

I wouldn't say it's unwatchable without a 3D LUT though, it depends on the display. After an Autocal, a JVC is very close to reference so a 3D LUT doesn't bring much. But if your display can't be calibrated to a reasonable baseline, then yes, a 3D LUT can make a big difference.

It can also make things significantly worse if you don't know what you're doing :)

[chros]

You can't use a 3D LUT in HDR because you use passthrough, but if you tonemap to SDR you can use a 3D LUT with pixel shader, I do :)
Exactly :) But you don't want to tonemap to SDR if you have an HDR capable display. :)

Btw, 88" OLEDs are coming ... :devil:

[Klaus1189]

For 30k

[chros]

For 30k
:D Hopefully they will be cheaper in 4k (not 8k) especially after Samsung jumped in (3-4 years).

[an3k]

Is this a known bug?

Even though "madVR Settings > devices > [Display] > display modes > switch to matching display mode..." is DISABLED, madVR switches to 1920x1080p23 when I play a 1920x1080p23 MVC H.264 MKV file. If I play a 2D 1920x1080p23 H.264 MKV nothing happens. If I disable "madVR Settings > rendering > stereo 3d > enable stereo 3d playback" madVR does not switch the resolution anymore but I can't see the the video in 3D. If I set "madVR Settings > devices > [Display] > display modes > list of all display modes madVR may switch to:" to 2560x1440p144 the screen still goes black for a second, the windows are getting rearranged, screen flickers again and the video finally plays.

I played with EDID and custom modes already. I can't get the same settings which are used before playing the MVC file, thus I want to completely DISABLE that monitor switching.

[Asmodian]

Not a bug, working as intended. madVR only supports 3D in 23.976 Hz.

[an3k]

That is not directly correct because if I set "madVR Settings > devices > [Display] > display modes > list of all display modes madVR may switch to:" to 2560x1440p144 I can watch 3D in 144-ish Hz.

However, my main goal is to stop madVR from switching the display mode at all.

[huhn]

you can not watch 3d without switching into 3d mode which is a mode switch.

madVR 3d may work in other modes but that doesn't change that it only support 1080p23 3D.

btw. dispalyport doesn't have the bandwidth for 1440p 144 hz 3d that's like 1440p 288 hz 2d.

[an3k]

Uhm, I may have forgotten to say Side-By-Side!

MPC-HC / madVR never goes into real 3D mode, simply because I don't have any 3D capable display. Instead madVR shows the MVC H.264 MKV in Side-By-Side mode.

I tested this on my second PC which has the identical monitor but using HDMI. On HDMI the monitor supports a maximum of 60 Hz and does NOT support 23 or 24 Hz. If I play the same file there no display mode change happens. I made sure the settings for MPC-HC and madVR are identical on both PCs.

[nevcairiel]

If you set madVR into side-by-side mode in the display options, then it will not do mode switching for 3D. My guess is that your settings are not actually identical, because even if you copy the settings file you need to re-configure the display part on each system.
Also, if you don't have a 3D display, what good is side-by-side mode anyway?

[mclingo]

If you sellotape a piece of cardboard vertically down your face between your eyes and sit just at t the right distance from the TV you can emulate a 3D monitor.

:)

[an3k]

If you set madVR into side-by-side mode in the display options, then it will not do mode switching for 3D.Thank you, that did the trick. Keeping it on auto causes the mode switch event though its SBS too.

My guess is that your settings are not actually identical, because even if you copy the settings file you need to re-configure the display part on each system.
Also, if you don't have a 3D display, what good is side-by-side mode anyway?The settings are identical. The difference is that my secondary PC only supports 59 Hz and 60 Hz, thus madVR cannot find a suitable 1920x1080 mode and just doesn't change the display mode at all. Primary PC supports 23, 24, 59, 60, 85, 100, 120, 144 Hz. SBS mode is fine for VR headsets. You can't directly shove the video onto the HMD but need a software player that creates a virtual display or screen in VR. Basically all of these players support SBS. :)

[huhn]

steam supports this BTW.

using madVR and some settings in steam where used as a guide to get 3D video playback into VR headset may years back and on top of it smooth motion was highly recommended because of the 90 hz issue.

[Siso]

you can not watch 3d without switching into 3d mode which is a mode switch.

madVR 3d may work in other modes but that doesn't change that it only support 1080p23 3D.

btw. dispalyport doesn't have the bandwidth for 1440p 144 hz 3d that's like 1440p 288 hz 2d.

Does displayport 1.2 support 3440x1440p@72 hz?

[an3k]

Does displayport 1.2 support 3440x1440p@72 hz?

Yes, maximum for DisplayPort 1.2 is 3840 × 2160 @ 75 Hz uncompressed RGB / 4:4:4 video using HBR2 transmission mode.

[Siso]

Yes, maximum for DisplayPort 1.2 is 3840 × 2160 @ 75 Hz uncompressed RGB / 4:4:4 video using HBR2 transmission mode.

Thank you for the reply. :goodpost:

[Asmodian]

That is not directly correct because if I set "madVR Settings > devices > [Display] > display modes > list of all display modes madVR may switch to:" to 2560x1440p144 I can watch 3D in 144-ish Hz.

You already figured this out but SBS is not 3D from madVR's point of view (it is not using a 3D output format).

[tony359]

What GPU and what driver version do you use excatly?

nVidia 1050ti - driver version 431.70

Thanks!

[Klaus1189]

Please update your Nvidia driver to latest GRD, for infos see also my dedicated driver thread:
AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013)

Please report back if done, perhaps better in the driver thread, since it is driver related at least I think so for now.