madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

What I said is a scientific fact. I explicitly talked about displays with "perfect fillrate", though. In real life no display has a perfect fillrate, so it's not as clear cut in real life as it is in theory. Still, if a 1080p display and a 4K display have identical properties (other than resolution), there's no way the 1080p will be able to compete with the 4K display, if you use madVR quality upscaling.

isn't upscaling grain/noise and not important pixel art still a problem?
sorry but if you didn't touch the image you can't do anything wrong. i'm not here to say that your scaling algorithms are bad or something they are the best i'm aware of by a big margin.

[nevcairiel]

sorry but if you didn't touch the image you can't do anything wrong.

But thats not really true. Its like saying a 720p TV will have the same quality as a 1080p TV at the same size, but we all know thats not true.

High Quality scaling algorithms improve the image substantially, if you can see this difference depends on the size of the screen and your eyes.

At a sufficient size, a 4K screen with upscaled 1080p content will most definitely look better then a native 1080p screen (of the same size). What this size is depends on your eyes and viewing conditions.

[nevcairiel]

Thanks, I haven't heard back from him, I'll post in the LAV thread if he doesn't reply here.

LAV relies on the new subtitle interface to work when you use D3D11 in native mode, as it doesn't have any other way to render menus otherwise. The other decode modes have a fallback, but that won't work with D3D11. There is nothing really to be done about that.

Stop anything else from stealing the subtitle interface away, or wait until madshi implements support for multiple providers. Or just disable hardware decoding for DVDs, it has its own DVD checkbox for a reason, and SD MPEG2 is hardly a challenge to decode.

[huhn]

But thats not really true. Its like saying a 720p TV will have the same quality as a 1080p TV at the same size, but we all know thats not true.

High Quality scaling algorithms improve the image substantially, if you can see this difference depends on the size of the screen and your eyes.

At a sufficient size, a 4K screen with upscaled 1080p content will most definitely look better then a native 1080p screen (of the same size). What this size is depends on your eyes and viewing conditions.

i'm not saying that the image will have the same quality i'm more pointing at the issue that scaling can degrade image quality depending from the source i'm not saying scaling can't have a positive effect on the image.

will a UHD screen look better or least least similar to a 1080p screen when all other specs are identical. i'm pretty sure it is yes for the majority can it make things worse yes and not only in special cases.

[ashlar42]

I don't know. Image processing can do wonders for bad sources, I agree. For good sources I think that not touching anything, by default, provides the most faithful result.
Then again, maybe what you are saying, madshi, is that since the aim of the original source is to reproduce reality (or whatever is being filmed), doing so at an higher resolution provides better results, even when upscaling?
So far I've always seen better results with content at native resolution for the panel being used. But my experience is seriously limited. And in no way I meant to disparage the incredible job your scalers do (especially NGU).

[Asmodian]

I definitely prefer watching 1080p content on a 4K display. There is content, like pixel art or fine very high contrast details, that gets damaged by scaling but for almost everything I watch scaling it to 4K looks a lot better. Some people don't mind aliasing at all though so for them the lower native resolution often looks better and it is only recently that preserving the sharpness so well through scaling became possible.

[mzso]

isn't upscaling grain/noise and not important pixel art still a problem?
sorry but if you didn't touch the image you can't do anything wrong. i'm not here to say that your scaling algorithms are bad or something they are the best i'm aware of by a big margin.

Look at it this way. If you have a large display, where 1080p matches your eye's resolution that's just right. If you have an equal size 720p it's like if you have upscaled it with the nearest neightbor method. Meaning you'll have very noticeable pixels (tiles), basically quantization noise.

If you upscale the same 720p to 1080p with a decent algorithm now there's a much smoother (imperceptible) transition between those pixels. It essentially makes better use of the available information.
i'm not saying that the image will have the same quality i'm more pointing at the issue that scaling can degrade image quality depending from the source i'm not saying scaling can't have a positive effect on the image.

Unless you use nearest neighbor (or something equally primitive), it's pretty much guaranteed that you'll have a better looking image.

[huhn]

did you may miss this part: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1822927&postcount=46872

[Razoola]

Madshi is right that viewing distance is also a very important factor. Personally I'm on a 65inch at a viewing distance of 3m. I can see the difference between 1080p and 1080p upscaled to 2160p with madVR. I have to be careful here though because my TV is 2160p native resolution and is probably doing its own internal scaling from 1080p to 2160p when I set a 1080p resolution.

One cannot underplay either just how much the added colorspace and bitdepths of new 2160p panels can improove picture quality over 1080p without relying solely on 4x resolution either.

[d3rd3vil]

So all in all HDR10 passthrough doesnt work properly as well? Then Dolby Vision will never work :( We need DV

[mzso]

did you may miss this part: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1822927&postcount=46872

Nope. I even quoted it....

[omarank]

Feedback on RCA and RRN:


Both RCA and RRN nicely clean the image.

For most of the low-quality artifact-ridden DVD/VCD/Internet downloaded content that I have, RCA at strength setting of 1 to 5 and RRN at strength setting of 1 to 3 do wonders.

I do not like “don’t reduce texture detail” for any strength setting in case of RCA.

I prefer to use both RCA and RRN with “process chroma channels, too” selected.

Using RRN followed by application of “add grain” in upscaling refinement looked pretty cool. I will be testing that more on the weekend.

I think I found one bug: using the keyboard shortcut to increase the RRN strength, I am not able to go beyond 5, while I can go up to 12 in the settings. Not that I need to use that high strength setting.

Dolby Vision consists of an additional video stream/layer, and additional metadata. What madVR could in theory do is:

1) madVR could make use of the additional video layer + additional metadata to move the video up from 10bit to 12bit+. This should produce a benefit for every display, regardless of whether it supports Dolby Vision or not, or whether it even supports HDR or not.

2) madVR could behave like any official Dolby Vision source device and send the video to a Dolby Vision compatible display, including all the dynamic metadata etc. This is theoretically possible, with any HDMI 1.4+ GPU, as long as it supports a perfect RGB 8bit "passthrough", where all bits stay untouched by the GPU driver (and Windows). The reason this would work (if perfect passthrough is available) is that the dynamic Dolby metadata is actually encoded into the image pixels, as a sort of watermark. So it doesn't require any specific HDMI version, and it even works if there's an AVR in the middle which doesn't support Dolby Vision (as long as the AVR keeps the watermarked pixels untouched).

The whole Dolby Vision processing is very complicated, but I would be willing to at least give 1) a try, maybe even 2), but it would require me to get access to the decoded Dolby Vision enhancement layer, plus to all the added Dolby metadata information contained in the base + enhancement layers.

So basically for any of this to work, first the splitter + decoder would have to be enhanced to deliver the Dolby Vision information to madVR. Then I could look into how to process it all.
It would be really great if 2) could be done, as besides Dolby Vision output we will also be able to confirm which GPU hardware and what driver settings lead to bitperfect output of madVR rendered frames.

[thewildsun]

RAM being an issue would explain why it only happens after a while of smooth playback. SuperRes doesn't sound to me as if it would explain higher RAM usage, though. Are we talking CPU RAM or GPU VRAM, btw?

I was originally talking about CPU RAM, but I'm not sure anymore.

I mentioned before that disabling SuperRes on ReconSoft fixed the issue for me, but later the frame drop problem still happened with SuperRes off. I think ultimately the problem was related to high GPU usage, rather than SuperRes specifically. While troubleshooting a different problem, I replaced the PSU with a much higher quality PSU, and I believe this fully solved the frame drop problem, as I was able to play a video for 20 minutes at 60% GPU usage with no frame drops.

However, I'm still stuck trying to figure out a new problem, which is an audio crackle which gets louder the higher the GPU usage is. I've only been able to reproduce it in madVR so far -- I've tried FurMark as well as games with unlocked FPS to maximize GPU use and they did not produce this crackle sound. It doesn't seem like GPU coil whine to me, but I could be wrong about that. The biggest problem with this crackle is that I can hear it through my speakers. My audio chain looks like this:

NVIDIA GPU (HDMI) -> AV Receiver -> Power Amplifier -> Speakers.

I have read that others have resolved coil whine getting to the speakers by using GPU HDMI instead of onboard audio, but my audio issue happens over HDMI. Things I have tried:


Replace the PSU (Antec -> EVGA P2)
Try three different GPUs (EVGA GTX 1070, MSI GTX 1060, RX 480). The RX 480 came from a different computer of mine which is very similar, but it does not have the GPU crackle when installed in the other computer using the same madVR settings.
Swap motherboard (Gigabyte -> Asus)
Try new boot SSD (Crucial -> Samsung)
Try different RAM
Try different CPU cooler
Try different HDMI cable
Reinstall Windows 10
Disable onboard audio in BIOS
Checked DPC latency with LatencyMon and DPC Latency Checker, neither showed any issues
Move computer to different floor on house to see if there is a ground loop issue. I didn't connect speakers after moving it, but I did still hear the crackle from the computer itself.
Use onboard graphics instead of discrete GPU. This does eliminate all crackle.
Try front headphone port on PC. The crackle on the GPU does not travel to the headphones.


Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but I figure it's somewhat relevant because madVR is the only thing I know of so far that triggers this GPU crackle. Does anyone have any ideas? About the only thing left I have to try is replacing the CPU (4790K) or the PC case, I think...

Edit: Here is a recording of the crackle, recorded near the GPU itself (volume needs to be turned up a bit): https://clyp.it/zgj20ezf#

Edit2: I was able to also reproduce the crackle while running MPDN on the highest quality preset, confirming that it's not specific to madVR.

[Blackwalker]

I've replied to your posts in some detail, but I don't think you've replied to my latest suggestions and comments. I'm not going to add any more hints until you reply to all my suggestions and comments.

i replied to all suggestions i read, if i miss your (i dont think) sorry maybe i didnt see :( wasnt my intention

i'd like to thx el Filou and who give me some tips!
Now it's not perfect, but now i can play without shuttering hdr 4k movie!

I have to test more and more for better result but i wanna say thx!

reducing decode CPU and GPU at 4 (both) helped and set also bilinear and dvxa everywhere in madvr settings helped too.

Continue with testing! :)


now looks i can play, but still some little iussue

sorry madshi , i checked all reply to my questions and i didnt find your reply. Just to see what your suggestions and try to understand why i miss them!
my english is not good ok... :(


Anyway, i have some iussue when i my htpc start its already in HDR mode, my tv is a LG 65B6V.
When i start to play the movie it stay in hdr mode, but when i double click on mpc-hc and it go to full screen now always stay in HDR mode....sometimes i have to switch to full/windows severl times....wondering why! :confused:

[xabregas]

So i updated the great fall creators BS windows 10 and right away i had several problems and one of them is making me thinking in returning to windows 8.1 ASAP. No FSE on madvr??? Well it didnt crash the player but when it goes to FSE i get black screen with sound. If i return to windowed mode i get video again without closing it. And when i close video the video stays almost like recorded on screen. The media player freeze and i need to ctrl-alt-del and close the process .exe. Tested in MPC, jriver, zoom player, mpc-be, daum pot.

[Asmodian]

Yes, Windows 10 and FSE don't play well together. This has been true before the latest update but your issue sounds much worse.

Have you reinstalled your video drivers after the update? I seem to have to reinstall all my drivers after these feature updates. :mad:

[xabregas]

Yes, Windows 10 and FSE don't play well together. This has been true before the latest update but your issue sounds much worse.

Have you reinstalled your video drivers after the update? I seem to have to reinstall all my drivers after these feature updates. :mad:

Yes. I unninstalled and installed audio and video drivers again and tried several versions of madVR. I even tought it was my gtx 750 ti and removed it from the computer and activated the intel hd 4600 and same thing. I think its a new kind of desktop composition from my little knowledge about crap windows 10. But i have no patiente for waiting so i will revert to windows 8.1 and when they solve this messed up windows i will probably (never) return to windows 10. :(

[Rexian]

It's all pagan voodoo at the moment for me. After I downgraded to 385.69 with W10 FCU / latest madVR, mpc-hc worked with FSE disabled. Pretty consistently. Yesterday I tried Kodi DSPlayer with the Elysium trailer and that worked with FSE enabled - I was planning to report here today but now, neither DSPlayer, nor mpc-HC works. Regardless of FSE being enabled or disabled. I need to spend more time on feng shui to be able to predict when it'll work next :)

[nevcairiel]

Yes, Windows 10 and FSE don't play well together. This has been true before the latest update but your issue sounds much worse.


Which is weird, because FSE games are just fine. I play everything like that for better GSYNC behavior. You would think if games can do it, madVR should manage.

[PurpleMan]

So here's something weird I just can't explain.

I'm trying to play an HDR HEVC 4k file. My TV is 2160p so there is no image upscaling here, only chroma.

Now, if I set chroma upsampling to something simple like Lanczos3 - it plays fine and the rendering time is ~6ms. However, if I change chroma upsampling to NNEDI 32 neurons or NGU AA High/Medium, I get a rendering time of ~20-30ms and dropping frames every few seconds. Every time it I see frames dropped, I can also see that the present queue empties to 0 and quickly refills.

I don't understand why it's dropping frames, 20-30ms should be fine for 24p content.

Things that don't make a difference: FSE/Windowed, CPU queue size, Delay-or-not until queue is full.

My setup: Win10, GTX 1050, 385.28, latest madVR, D3D11 decoding with LAV

Thanks for any help in advance! :)

[xabregas]

New update: Ive tried one last time and voila FSE works with madvr 0.90.24. With directx11 only. No dx9....................

But ive read here it can change any moment so probably will not endure. :scared:

I guess its obvious what is broken here. Windows 10 FCU. And these people get payed to do this updates??? :rolleyes:

Windows 10 is the crapiest thing ever created. They skipped number 9 because number 9 is cursed for some reason i dont undertsand. Now they curse us with this nightmate creators update. Even the name sounds like a vilain coming from a Ridley Scott movie.

[xabregas]

So here's something weird I just can't explain.

I'm trying to play an HDR HEVC 4k file. My TV is 2160p so there is no image upscaling here, only chroma.

Now, if I set chroma upsampling to something simple like Lanczos3 - it plays fine and the rendering time is ~6ms. However, if I change chroma upsampling to NNEDI 32 neurons or NGU AA High/Medium, I get a rendering time of ~20-30ms and dropping frames every few seconds. Every time it I see frames dropped, I can also see that the present queue empties to 0 and quickly refills.

I don't understand why it's dropping frames, 20-30ms should be fine for 24p content.

Things that don't make a difference: FSE/Windowed, CPU queue size, Delay-or-not until queue is full.

My setup: Win10, GTX 1050, 385.28, latest madVR, D3D11 decoding with LAV

Thanks for any help in advance! :)

Hmmm Probably test it with software decoding on lav. But i think the problem is obvious. Your gpu is almost like mine GTX 750 ti (probably yours is a bit worst because no Ti). My 750 Ti can handle NGU antialiasing quality with ~25ms and no drops but its with 1080p on 1080p screen without hardware acceleration.

4k speaking i think its too much for a gtx 1050 to handle. You probably can get away with nnedi 16 neurons and no hardware acceleration without drops. Probably. And why do u use d3d11 on lav?? Ive heard its not stable yet. Test it with software decoding if u can or maybe CUDA???

[e-t172]

What I said is a scientific fact. I explicitly talked about displays with "perfect fillrate", though. In real life no display has a perfect fillrate, so it's not as clear cut in real life as it is in theory. Still, if a 1080p display and a 4K display have identical properties (other than resolution), there's no way the 1080p will be able to compete with the 4K display, if you use madVR quality upscaling.

...and to put more weight behind that statement, this is consistent with what is said in Poynton's book (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Sa-cEY_ZeEQC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA75#v=onepage&q&f=false) for example, where he explains the concept of point spread function (PSF). The reason why LCD screens behave poorly in that regard is that they have a box PSF (in layman's terms, "square pixels"). In contrast, good ol'CRTs are better at this, because they have a gaussian PSF.

[PurpleMan]

Hmmm Probably test it with software decoding on lav. But i think the problem is obvious. Your gpu is almost like mine GTX 750 ti (probably yours is a bit worst because no Ti). My 750 Ti can handle NGU antialiasing quality with ~25ms and no drops but its with 1080p on 1080p screen without hardware acceleration.

4k speaking i think its too much for a gtx 1050 to handle. You probably can get away with nnedi 16 neurons and no hardware acceleration without drops. Probably. And why do u use d3d11 on lav?? Ive heard its not stable yet. Test it with software decoding if u can or maybe CUDA???

Thanks, but there are a few holes in this theory that I'm trying to work out -

1. The decoder queue has plenty of frames in it, it's only the present frame that's getting empty.

2. If the GPU would be too overloaded with decoding, you'd expect the render time to be way more than 20-30ms. I mean, If it's so swamped with decoding, I'd imagine it wouldn't be able keep up with madVR's processing, which it seems to.

maybe @madshi has some insight here.

Thanks!

[Reclunk]

NVIDIA GPU (HDMI) -> AV Receiver -> Power Amplifier -> Speakers.

I have read that others have resolved coil whine getting to the speakers by using GPU HDMI instead of onboard audio, but my audio issue happens over HDMI.

Disable the audio driver from your motherboard. Ie: Realtek ; then it defaults to your GPU/Reciever. Cured a bunch of my headaches, all through HDMI.

[huhn]

So here's something weird I just can't explain.

I'm trying to play an HDR HEVC 4k file. My TV is 2160p so there is no image upscaling here, only chroma.

Now, if I set chroma upsampling to something simple like Lanczos3 - it plays fine and the rendering time is ~6ms. However, if I change chroma upsampling to NNEDI 32 neurons or NGU AA High/Medium, I get a rendering time of ~20-30ms and dropping frames every few seconds. Every time it I see frames dropped, I can also see that the present queue empties to 0 and quickly refills.

I don't understand why it's dropping frames, 20-30ms should be fine for 24p content.

Things that don't make a difference: FSE/Windowed, CPU queue size, Delay-or-not until queue is full.

My setup: Win10, GTX 1050, 385.28, latest madVR, D3D11 decoding with LAV

Thanks for any help in advance! :)


can you make a screen of the OSD?
i feel like an broken record but a 2 GB can easily run out of Vram when used for UHD you can check that too using GPU-Z (1850-1950 usually means you are out of Vram but not always.)
Thanks, but there are a few holes in this theory that I'm trying to work out -

1. The decoder queue has plenty of frames in it, it's only the present frame that's getting empty.

2. If the GPU would be too overloaded with decoding, you'd expect the render time to be way more than 20-30ms. I mean, If it's so swamped with decoding, I'd imagine it wouldn't be able keep up with madVR's processing, which it seems to.
hardware decoding on a 1050 ti is literally "free" it is done on an specialized chip not on the GPU it self. the performances "loss" can be usually ignored.
Hmmm Probably test it with software decoding on lav. But i think the problem is obvious. Your gpu is almost like mine GTX 750 ti (probably yours is a bit worst because no Ti). My 750 Ti can handle NGU antialiasing quality with ~25ms and no drops but its with 1080p on 1080p screen without hardware acceleration.

4k speaking i think its too much for a gtx 1050 to handle. You probably can get away with nnedi 16 neurons and no hardware acceleration without drops. Probably. And why do u use d3d11 on lav?? Ive heard its not stable yet. Test it with software decoding if u can or maybe CUDA???

a 1050 is a notable faster card than a 750 ti.
and as a reminder CUVID has problems...

[Manni]

LAV relies on the new subtitle interface to work when you use D3D11 in native mode, as it doesn't have any other way to render menus otherwise. The other decode modes have a fallback, but that won't work with D3D11. There is nothing really to be done about that.

Stop anything else from stealing the subtitle interface away, or wait until madshi implements support for multiple providers. Or just disable hardware decoding for DVDs, it has its own DVD checkbox for a reason, and SD MPEG2 is hardly a challenge to decode.

Thanks for this explanation, I think we understand the situation far better now that both you and Madshi have explained clearly what was happening at each level.

I'll follow your suggestion to disable hardware decoding for DVD, that makes complete sense until Madshi implements support for multiple providers (not necessary for me, as you say with a 1080Ti I can easily decode SD MPEG2 with software).

As far as I'm concerned, problem solved as I can have D3D11 acceleration on all the time with an auto exception for DVDs. :)

Thanks again!

[austinminton]

However, I'm still stuck trying to figure out a new problem, which is an audio crackle which gets louder the higher the GPU usage is.

I had the same problem and I fixed it by changing my avr.

Such problems are quite specific to the setup and I had to go through a lot of trial and error before it got fixed.

[aufkrawall]

hardware decoding on a 1050 ti is literally "free" it is done on an specialized chip not on the GPU it self.
In a specialized part of the GPU itself. ;)

[el Filou]

For people who have problems with FSE in Windows 1709, did you check if the "disable fullscreen optmiizations" compatibility option wasn't re-enabled for your media player(s) by the update?

So all in all HDR10 passthrough doesnt work properly as well? Then Dolby Vision will never work :( We need DVMate, of your 32 posts on this forum, most of them are you repeatedly asking for ETAs for Dolby Vision support in various software. Do you own Dolby shares or something? Are you really in such a hurry? Support won't come sooner the more you bother devs about it, you know. :rolleyes:

[leeperry]

especially when everyone hates dolby because they basically sell a black box nobody can look into, not gunna happen.

[d3rd3vil]

Mate, of your 32 posts on this forum, most of them are you repeatedly asking for ETAs for Dolby Vision support in various software. Do you own Dolby shares or something? Are you really in such a hurry? Support won't come sooner the more you bother devs about it, you know. :rolleyes:

Thats EXACTLY the opposite of what I am thinking. You gotta ask and hurry people in every forum around the world so sth. MIGHT happen in the next few months otherwise NOTHING will happen. Most dont know about DV, cant use it or dont need it.

[nevcairiel]

Being spammed by annoying users is not exactly a great motivational help... :)
You have requested the feature, the developers have read it, repeating it won't get you anything.

If you care so much about DV support in free tools, you should pester Dolby about releasing specifications. But of course they'll never do that, but you should try anyway!

[d3rd3vil]

What are you thinking of me ofc I also wrote to dolby laboratories ^^ No answer though ofc.

[mparade]

Hello,

I have a 4K TV and set madVR profiles correctly, but,
when playing an mkv file, e.g. with a resolution of 1920x804p, I am getting incorrect source handling.
madVR doesn't do any doubling, however my profiles have been set so. Additionally, after playing the first video file using madVR the player's GUI was totally mixed up (after the player finished playing the video/stopped the player manually), and when this had happened, it was needed each time to close and reopen it.
I played a few hours with it and realized at the end that this issue only occurs when madVR is chosen as the renderer. The same issue has happened to me in JRiver and MPC-HC as well.
So, now nothing special I would like to achieve, only wouuld like to play back my mkvs correctly using my own madVR profiles.

Link to the screenshot about the problem:

http://s1.toldacuccot.hu/letoltes?sid=b022005c7f75f8cbebbaaba172012256&file=madVR_screenshot3.png

Any help would be appreciated.

[ashlar42]

I don't even own a 4K screen, let alone an HDR Dolby Vision capable one. I'm not here to condone d3rd3vil behaviour or anything but... the "black box, will never happen" argument doesn't hold. In the past we've had several of these black boxes and with time they've been made usable. Wasn't DTS encoding impossible with free tools for the longest time, for instance, do I remember wrong?

[d3rd3vil]

Its the best there is for an Oled so we want it :) Even with slight improvements.

[Razoola]

Personally I have been very underwelmed with dolby vision. I have watched various DV shows via netflix on my E6 OLED and at some point I though I had issues with by panel when it turned out dolby vision was the cause.

The main issue I have seen with content using it is line bleed in the source material. Those of you who owned Plasma in the past will know what line bleed is I suspect. Well dolby vision is so great that their cameras or encoding method ends up putting that effect into the source material for you. Its really dire in some of the daredevil series I watched in the past.

I steer well clear of Dolby Vision these days and I would be the first to sign a petition for TV makers to drop DV and bring back 3D.

[EDIT], here is a video clip of a prime example of DV crappyness I recorded a few months back. Its not even a great quality video but you can see the linebleed over the black bricks and his chest as he gets out of bed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_ALuDz9Uo4

[d3rd3vil]

What to look for in that vid? I have seen sooo many videos about Oled faults....you have to experience it yourself. Vids usually dont help.

And Daredevil is a grainy material that certainly doesnt need DV or DV makes it even worse that could be possible yes.

[Razoola]

What to look for in that vid? I have seen sooo many videos about Oled faults....you have to experience it yourself. Vids usually dont help.

And Daredevil is a grainy material that certainly doesnt need DV or DV makes it even worse that could be possible yes.

In this case (the video above) its not an OLED fault, its a Dolby Vision issue.

The issue the video is showing is line bleed. Look at the horizontal slat in the window on the right of picture. Then look at the black bricks at the same height to the left of it. You can see they are darker than the other bricks over the entire wall (like dark hortz line painted on them). Then as he moves up out of bed that line bleed causes he chest to have a yellow smudgy line over it.

Please don't even think about saying its a lighting shadow in the room when filming took place.

[d3rd3vil]

Well ok then its shit in Daredevil ok. Still I am not convinced DV is shit ^^

[madshi]

isn't upscaling grain/noise and not important pixel art still a problem?
sorry but if you didn't touch the image you can't do anything wrong. i'm not here to say that your scaling algorithms are bad or something they are the best i'm aware of by a big margin.
To my eyes pixart looks much better upscaled with NGU Anti-Alias compared to not upscaled. But if you absolutely hate upscaling pixart, you can always use nearest neighbor upscaling, which should look roughly similar to "unscaled" on a 1080p display.

Upscaling grain/noise doesn't work particularly well, which means it doesn't really benefit from upscaling. But it doesn't really hurt much, either.

Upscaling helps *A LOT* for reproducing any kind of edges much better than displaying the images untouched.

I don't know. Image processing can do wonders for bad sources, I agree. For good sources I think that not touching anything, by default, provides the most faithful result.
Not true at all. Actually, the better the source quality, the better NGU Sharp looks. E.g. have you seen these screenshots yet?

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1434826-projector-mini-shootout-thread-607.html#post54983374

These are from one of the best UHD Blu-Rays (in terms of detail and resolution) we have so far, and madVR's 1080p -> UHD upscale gets remarkably close to the UHD image, when talking about edges. Of course madVR can't invent texture detail which isn't there in the 1080p image. But edges upscaled to 4K look *so* much better than when displaying the 1080p image untouched.

So all in all HDR10 passthrough doesnt work properly as well?
It works just fine, using the latest Nvidia or AMD GPUs, as long as you use a "good" GPU driver version.

Feedback on RCA and RRN:

[...]

* Using RRN followed by application of “add grain” in upscaling refinement looked pretty cool. I will be testing that more on the weekend.
FWIW, I'm not fully happy with what RRN does to grain. At some point I'll find a better solution, which should make removing + later re-adding grain more feasible.

It would be really great if 2) could be done, as besides Dolby Vision output we will also be able to confirm which GPU hardware and what driver settings lead to bitperfect output of madVR rendered frames.
It's not worth the (rather big) effort, just to give you a test for bitperfect output! If that's a minor side benefit then that's fine with me. But if I implement Dolby Vision support, then the main motivation for that must be improved image quality.

However, I'm still stuck trying to figure out a new problem, which is an audio crackle which gets louder the higher the GPU usage is. I've only been able to reproduce it in madVR so far -- I've tried FurMark as well as games with unlocked FPS to maximize GPU use and they did not produce this crackle sound. It doesn't seem like GPU coil whine to me, but I could be wrong about that. The biggest problem with this crackle is that I can hear it through my speakers. My audio chain looks like this
Might make sense to double check that you don't have DPC latency issues. See here:

http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml

I had these issues (plus occasional blue screens) on my rather old HTPC when I allowed the HTPC to dynamically clock the CPU down. Fixing the CPU at normal clocks all the time solved the issue for me.

So i updated the great fall creators BS windows 10 and right away i had several problems and one of them is making me thinking in returning to windows 8.1 ASAP. No FSE on madvr??? Well it didnt crash the player but when it goes to FSE i get black screen with sound.
Which GPU and driver? Don't use Nvidia 387.xx. Use 385.xx instead.

I'm trying to play an HDR HEVC 4k file. My TV is 2160p so there is no image upscaling here, only chroma.

Now, if I set chroma upsampling to something simple like Lanczos3 - it plays fine and the rendering time is ~6ms. However, if I change chroma upsampling to NNEDI 32 neurons or NGU AA High/Medium, I get a rendering time of ~20-30ms and dropping frames every few seconds. Every time it I see frames dropped, I can also see that the present queue empties to 0 and quickly refills.

I don't understand why it's dropping frames, 20-30ms should be fine for 24p content.

Things that don't make a difference: FSE/Windowed, CPU queue size, Delay-or-not until queue is full.

My setup: Win10, GTX 1050, 385.28, latest madVR, D3D11 decoding with LAV
No idea right now. Have you tried enabling/disabling "use D3D11 for presentation" in madVR? Also try Overlay mode.

...and to put more weight behind that statement, this is consistent with what is said in Poynton's book (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Sa-cEY_ZeEQC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA75#v=onepage&q&f=false) for example, where he explains the concept of point spread function (PSF). The reason why LCD screens behave poorly in that regard is that they have a box PSF (in layman's terms, "square pixels"). In contrast, good ol'CRTs are better at this, because they have a gaussian PSF.
I'm not sure I really like CRT gaussian PSFs, to be honest. Sure, they may make the image look more analog, but if the PSFs of neighbor pixels overlap, that will blur the image, and if they don't overlap, you have "gaps" which means less brightness and maybe a visible "texture" to the image. I think box PSF is just fine, as long as the resolution is high enough so that our eyes don't see the aliasing. One argument more for using upscaling with 4K!

i replied to all suggestions i read, if i miss your (i dont think) sorry maybe i didnt see :( wasnt my intention
Here's my reply which I think you've ignored so far:

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1822199&postcount=46670

I have a 4K TV and set madVR profiles correctly, but,
when playing an mkv file, e.g. with a resolution of 1920x804p, I am getting incorrect source handling.
madVR doesn't do any doubling, however my profiles have been set so.
It seems to be a case of 1080p movie on 1080p screen, so why should madVR double? Did you activate supersampling? If so, it might make sense if you make screenshots of your doubling settings page. Also please make sure that the profile you want to be active is actually active (shown in "bold" font) in this situation.

Additionally, after playing the first video file using madVR the player's GUI was totally mixed up (after the player finished playing the video/stopped the player manually), and when this had happened, it was needed each time to close and reopen it.
Can't say anything about that without seeing a screenshot of what you mean. madVR is usually not responsible for the player GUI, unless the player uses the madVR GUI/OSD APIs.

I played a few hours with it and realized at the end that this issue only occurs when madVR is chosen as the renderer. The same issue has happened to me in JRiver and MPC-HC as well.
Which issue are you talking about? Not doubling? Or mixed up GUI?

[YxP]

To everyone with problems in Windows 10 remember to disable all muthaphukkin' game modes, -bars etc. and use adaptive or high performance power profile.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Note that as of the Fall Creators update, Game mode is opt-in on a per-application basis - it's no longer a global toggle. Of course, if a game does opt in, it'll probably hog all the system resources.

[huhn]

To my eyes pixart looks much better upscaled with NGU Anti-Alias compared to not upscaled. But if you absolutely hate upscaling pixart, you can always use nearest neighbor upscaling, which should look roughly similar to "unscaled" on a 1080p display.
using NGU AA or nnedi3 is clearly changing the a pixelart image creators intend.
and NN (not that i want to use it) is no real option in madVR anymore you can trigger it with an hot key but that's it.
pixdelart is not important anyway it is just something that is hard to scale with a normal scaler or without changing the creators intend.
Upscaling grain/noise doesn't work particularly well, which means it doesn't really benefit from upscaling. But it doesn't really hurt much, either.
if we now upscaling a noisy dvd to UHD i'm not so sure it will not harm the image...
i even go as far and say upscaling an not optimal DVD source is usually showing some major problem yes edges get usually smoother but images are more than this. most scaler make the image unsharp and sharpening i shows other issues.
yes you can change the upscalier for different image types
Upscaling helps *A LOT* for reproducing any kind of edges much better than displaying the images untouched.

this is something i can totally agree on upscaling generally helps a to hide/aliasing aliasing.

[leeperry]

I don't even own a 4K screen, let alone an HDR Dolby Vision capable one. I'm not here to condone d3rd3vil behaviour or anything but... the "black box, will never happen" argument doesn't hold.

Long story short, skip to 8'34 they know: vimeo.com/194658219

To me Mike and madshi are the same level of experts, they don't need Dolby to run their business.

[xabregas]

Which GPU and driver? Don't use Nvidia 387.xx. Use 385.xx instead.

gtx 750 ti and 388.00

But i reverted to windows 8.1 and everything is great again. (Not great because since XP there is no best windows os).

Im not sure what happened because before fall creators update evrything was just fine with default FSE in d3d9. I could have reverted to windows 10 before Fall creators but everything in windows 10 make me sick. The main problem is the pain we have in selecting the updates we want or not. And other bugs. And the privacy probems. I need more time to configure everything in windows 10 than to actually install it.

I will wait for windows 11 (If "11" is a number they think its not bad luck). What a crap company microsoft become.

Microsoft keeps trying to impose new "sh/%#/T" to us without care what we all want. Cant they see we prefer simple things to anoying 3d windows coming from everywhere and notifications flying around even after i disabled EVERY NOTIFICATION. THEY KEEP APPEARiNG. sry for venting -.-

[madshi]

using NGU AA or nnedi3 is clearly changing the a pixelart image creators intend.
IMHO the pixart image creator's intent was not to create low-res highly aliased images. They simply had no other choice, because the game consoles at the time didn't support any higher resolution. So they did the best they could, setting every pixel carefully by hand. However, if they had had the chance to use a higher resolution, they probably would have, and in the process they would have created images that would have been much less aliased.

Now it's a valid question if NGU AA is able to "interpret" the images in such a way that brings them nearer to the original image creator's intent or farther away. This is a topic that would probably be valid grounds for heated discussions. Personally, when re-playing old pixeart adventure games, I'd much rather have NGU AA upscaled images than nearest neighbor. But I suppose every user has a right to decide for himself. Generally saying that upscaling pixart with NGU AA does not honor the image creator's intent is IMHO not fair, at least I don't agree with that.

if we now upscaling a noisy dvd to UHD i'm not so sure it will not harm the image...
i even go as far and say upscaling an not optimal DVD source is usually showing some major problem yes edges get usually smoother but images are more than this. most scaler make the image unsharp and sharpening i shows other issues.
Who in this thread cares about "most scalers"? The key question is what madVR can do with it.

FWIW, DVD sources are not even encoded in their native aspect ratio, so it's impossible to display DVDs without scaling them in at least one direction!

gtx 750 ti and 388.00

But i reverted to windows 8.1 and everything is great again. (Not great because since XP there is no best windows os).
Well, I've been recommending for months (years?) now to use Windows 8.1 instead of Windows 10, but only very few people listen to me.

That said, with 385.xx drivers it might have worked ok.

[madshi]

madVR v0.92.8 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* added 3 new "reduce compression artifacts" strength steps between 1-4
* removed deblock option "don't reduce texture detail", wasn't useful
* replaced old "reduce random noise" strengths 1+2 with a new strength 1
* fixed: key for increasing "reduce random noise" strength stopped at 5
Not much time for madVR atm, so just some smaller algo tweaks.

[ABDO]

Nice work madshi, thanks.