madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[brazen1]

I've been using deblocking & denoising shortcuts for years as I wrote. They are not the same as RCA and RRN. How do I know this? I open madVr and engage RCA with 'activate only if it comes for free as part of NGU sharp'. I believe scaling settings for luma and chroma must also be set to high or very high which they are. I play a title and I see the algo do its magic. I note my render time. All is well.

I disengage RCA setting and do nothing else. I play same title again. Render time remains the same. RCA came for free. Next I engage denoising and play same title. Render time increases and frames drop like crazy. Denoising does not come for free. I also engaged RCA setting, started title and turned on denoising during playback. This too increased render time and began dropping frames. (just to rule out RCA must be engaged for denoising to come for free).

Denoising and RCA are not the same thing. The same is true for deblocking and RRN. They too are different algorithms. Where is madshi when you need him? I want to make sure I'm not out of my mind. I'd really, really like to map those algorithms just as I've done with many others.

Fwiw, it also appears RCA for free only applies to SDR. When I test it with HDR, it's a resource hog.

[fourbigkids]

AHHH! Sorry about that. I was typing from my phone. Not sure why the quotes come out that way!

Haha! Don't sweat it Cowboydude99. I learned a valuable lesson ..... about quotation marks! :D:D:)

And thanks very much for the pointers.

Allan

[tp4tissue]

Hi!
I'm not familiar with HDR at all so this will be a noob question: Can I have HDR image without a display that supports it. I'm not even sure how HDR works but I'm quite sure it won't add more bits to a pixel. :) So I guess it can be done in SW via the renderer?

On a different note, if anyone could give me hints what category of Nvidia or AMD GPUs do I need to watch UHD HDR stuff would be nice.
Traditionally I use some luma sharpening as well, though I'm not sure I would feel the need at UHD.
As for scaling. I don't feel like I'm missing out on much with only using lanczos 3 taps for upscaling and softcubic60 for downscaling. Though I guess enough oomph for anti ringing would be nice.
Judging by how few frames my GPU can squeeze out with jinc and other heavy algorithms I guess that I would need a categories more expensive GPU, probably not worth it for me.

Yes you can.

If your display goes Above 100 nits, Then technically, it supports HDR.

Anything above 100 nit is HDR.

Specific to HDR Highlights, lightsaber, fire, neon, for a good representation of these elements you need around 300-400 nits at the lowest. WHICH , most newer IPS/VA LCD panels can easily do.

Black level will be terrible for IPS, and it'll still crush shadow detail, but that's always been the case With or without HDR.

For good HDR , you want at the minimum a VA panel with 300-400nits,. OLED is the king of the hill FOR NOW, until LMCL comes out later this year.

MADVR allows all PCs to Playback HDR on NON-HDR displays. You need a minimum of 1060gtx 6gb, 1070 Recommended.

Turing gpu 1660ti/2060 etc works with some tweaks, but it is NOT recomended for the moment because there are glitches. 10xx series has the best compatibility, and they're alot cheaper.

[ryrynz]

probably not worth it for me.

Second hand 1060 6GB.. cheap and so worth it.
Will perform marvelously for SDR and reasonably well for HDR, I used to own one and it was good.

[wasper]

Hello to all,

I need your opinion on the best way to manage weird encoded video. I have 2 Prores file that looked washed out. Decided to have a look at it. Got crazy! Thought at first that
I might watching video with the wrong setting into the full range/limited range chain for a while without noticing it! But, I didn't find anything wrong. Thought it could be a driver issue, once again, nothing seemed wrong.
Desperate, I thought it could be the "illegal" windows prores codec. To be sure, I've downloaded a free trial of adobe. Picture looked washed out on preview as well but found the source of my problem using
lumetri graph. Most of my prores started at 0 for the lower black and the washed out at 16(limited).

https://i.imgur.com/rdeLE9D.png https://i.imgur.com/8pmqseM.png

But why then Madvr OSD were showed me limited range for both files(limited and full). Thought it might be a madvr bug and all the prores are full range by default. So, I used the level -16, +16 tag on the washed video and it played really well to my eyes.

Then, I flashed out, Adobe must be converting the data to full rgb 0-255 by default for editing. Googled it and found that it is effectively the case. Found the option for the graph with the final encoded value. Video start at 32!
https://i.imgur.com/OWctXY2.png

So, no bugs anywhere...

The label of the encoded company is encoded in limited range and the video itself is encoded in limited range into the limited range container!

Long story for small questions...

Is it something normal and proper to Prores and only managed by the real codec on MAC? If so, why I'm seeing washed picture in Adobe (I'm more than novice and I might not seeing all the options)?

Doing the level blacklevel=-16, whitelevel+16 is the best way to play this kind of file correctly?

Finally, does it exist a freeware that could give me the lumetri scope like adobe do? cause I'll end the trial of course!

Probably coming from a real good source but a fake prores imo.

[MadKodi]

hello everyone.
i been using madvr for kodi with DSPlayer for years now. never had a issue until these movies that play at 2160P 60FPS. came out. how do i set up madvr or dsplayer to play the 2160p 60FPS??
display is a LG C8

[x7007]

@X7007

I will say it again, it is not the driver's job to switch black levels. If your TV can't do the proper Black levels for PC use then you need to set up your system properly for Limited Black levels. If for some weird reason you need a mix of both Limited and Full, then you can setup different pre-sets on your TV for each.

QB

LATEST EDIT*****: Nvidia Released 455.98 HOTFIX for HDR, now HDR works a bit different when launched it would stay SDR until you go Full-Screen. the issue with Crushed black still exists cause it doesn't use the correct YCbCr and still RGB FULL which is not correct for Video. don't know if games have changed, will need to check.

Can you explain me what you think happens? it seems you think there is a problem with the TV. though it works just fine on it's own Android APP Netflix and such.

I'll explain it 2 ways. it's not just Movies, it is also Games.

We can agree that follows
Tested with 442.75

HDR is YCbCr 422 LIMITED 10bit
DV is YCbCr 420 Limited 12bit


Windows HDR / OS HDR is
RGB 8 bit + Dithering

Nvidia HDR / NV HDR is
RGB 8 bit + Dithering

Movies has specific way to display the right Decoding/Color Gamut
BT.2020 or DCI-P3 the 1st is preferred

MadVR 0-255
Potplayer Auto
Nvidia Default is RGB FULL 8 bit.
TV input Game Console is HIGH also PC input is HIGH.
TV Input Game Console in HDR is LOW and PC Input is AUTO/HIGH - It is not preferred to use PC Input while watching HDR, many options are limited, and also it tries to force YCbCr 444.

Now the main issue is all around, no matter WHAT I CHANGE on the TV, it does NOT CORRECT.

I'll explain. Windows still displaying FULL RGB 8bit + Dithering while watching in HDR Mode a YCbCr BT.2020 10Bit. There is a software/Driver mix no matter what I do on TV. even if I had other device it would still wouldn't be correct.

The only way to set it correct is changing manually the Nvidia Color Ouput to YCbCr 422 10bit and Limited is already automatic, then in the Windows Display Settings in the Advanced Display Settings, it says the right output for HDR and HDR is perfect.

Not only there are those White pixels in the Correct mode which is LOW it is so bloody DARK. in the Correct mode manually changing everything is Bright and looks exactly like Netflix DolbyVision or HDR.


If after all this explaining and if you HAVE TESTED this on your own, please tell me what are your thoughts.

Can anyone tell me why it is not 10bit? It is HDR MKV. How do I fix it, I tried in MadvR to change the BIT Depth from AUTO to 10 or higher. I tried to change to Exclusive mode in MadVR and Potplayer. it does work saying D3D11 Exclusive 10bit when clicking enter to get into fullscreen, there is a flash, but then there is another flash and it goes back to 8bit..

EDIT : For some reason, MPC-HC works fine. not even Exclusive mode.. someone else said drivers fixed it when it worked fine in MPC-HC but not in Zoom.
I remember it was changing because of Nvidia Drivers, some drivers it was 10bit and some are 8bit. These Nvidia drivers are a mess.

QUOTE:
I got it working again - but only in MPC-HC... DisplayPort, 10-bit color depth, full range... 10-bit D3D11 full-screen. Unfortunately for some reasons in Zoom Player Max it's not going into exclusive full-screen mode even though it is in full-screen. Some progress at least.


Edit 2 Update: Nvidia hotfix released yesterday (two weeks newer than WHQL released earlier on 12/12)... Fixes this. It also addressed an issue where my monitor wouldn't enter sleep mode with my DP connection. https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answ...tail/a_id/4758:
END QUOTE"

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/3038558-getting-my-win10-pc-s-color-settings-figured-out-something-s-amiss.html


**** EDIT: I've found the issue Using anything else But DISABLE causing HDR to not working or D3D11 not being 10bit.
https://i.imgur.com/O823dws.png



https://i.imgur.com/ayGvcne.png



This is how it should look like


https://i.imgur.com/0qMZIkQ.png

[VBB]

@7007 - Your post is all over the place, really... Bottom line is, if you prefer to have SDR output in RGB 8-bit and HDR in YCbCr 4:2:2 10-bit, then you need to switch that in the Nvidia control panel every time. It's more common to use YCbCr 4:4:4 8-bit for both SDR and HDR, with SDR in PC mode and HDR in normal HDMI mode. Or you could use YCbCr 4:2:2 10-bit for both SDR and HDR in normal HDMI mode. That way, you don't have to switch anything ever. Whatever you chose, know that YCbCr is always limited, meaning you set the TV to Low, and RGB can be either full or limited, so you'll have to set the TV accordingly.

As to your other problem, the last few Nvidia drivers have a bug that triggers when you pull up a player GUI. madVR then switches from 10-bit to 8-bit and fullscreen to windowed. If you get rid of the GUI fast enough, everything goes back to the way it was before. If you take too long, madVR will be stuck in 8-bit. I haven't tried yesterday's hotfix yet, so I can't say if this particular issue has been fixed.

[tp4tissue]

snp

Has anyone actually gotten noticeably smoother gradients on 10-bit ?

I've tried it on several TVs, it doesn't look smoother on any of them.

I thought well, maybe Madvr's just that good. :D

[WuNgUn]

Has anyone actually gotten noticeably smoother gradients on 10-bit ?



I've tried it on several TVs, it doesn't look smoother on any of them.



I thought well, maybe Madvr's just that good. :DWhen I look at the black levels test image in 8 and 10 bit, it's 10 bit that shows all the blacks... So I assume, better gradients....?

Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk

[VBB]

Absolutely. I know some don't think it makes a difference, but I found that with the OLEDs a combo of YCbCr 4:2:2, 10-bit, for both SDR and HDR together with normal HDMI mode on the TV has the biggest impact on banding. When I used RGB full, I had no choice but to use madVR's de-banding. Now, I don't use it anymore at all, with any content. Banding is virtually non-existent. But again, this only applies to OLEDs, and perhaps only to LG's.

[Asmodian]

I disagree, I do not have less banding when using 10 bit. My banding seems lowest using YCbCr 8 bit, also tested using HDMI mode on LG C9.

Also, madVR's debanding has no effect on banding due to the bitdepth/display. madVR's debanding removes banding from the source, it simply cannot have an effect once the video makes it to the display. :confused:

[VBB]

Huh? What does that have to do with the display? It has an effect on what you set in the video drivers. We know these panels run natively in 4:2:2 10-bit, unless you switch to PC mode, which is borked in several ways. I think we can agree on that. So, it makes sense that, in normal HDMI mode, you get the least banding when running exactly what the panel expects.

[Asmodian]

madVR's debanding has an effect on what you set in the video drivers? How?

Edit: madVR's debanding happens on the source before it is sent to the drivers. If you have a smooth gradient test pattern in a high bitdepth it does not need or benefit from debanding.

[WuNgUn]

I'm definitely not getting HDR metadata to the display on these hotfix drivers.
Gonna run DDU in safe mode and try a clean driver install.

Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk

[VBB]

So, you're saying, if I get more banding from a driver setting of RGB Full, for example, than I do from YCbCr 4:2:2, then madVR's de-banding does not influence said banding caused by the driver settings? That makes no sense. If I can see the added banding before I even use madVR as a video renderer, why wouldn't the de-band function make that less visible?

[VBB]

Anyway, I'm just telling you what I see with my own eyes. This is after owning and messing with this C7 for three years. Same video card, same rig, all this time. And you know this isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with each other. Everyone should do their own tests. If there's one thing I think we can both actually agree on, it's that you hate sub-sampling and I hate banding ;)

[huhn]

sorry but you should stick to science.

if you take a proper banding test with absolutely zero banding in the source debanding doesn't do anything to it there is nothing to deband.
and this is the first step to check if a TV adds banding or not because other variables are kept to a minimum.

If I can see the added banding before I even use madVR as a video renderer, why wouldn't the de-band function make that less visible?
did the other program you check this with properly dither or is it creating banding on it own?
does your conclusion take into account if the GPU driver adds banding?

[VBB]

We've been over this so many times. My way of testing is clearly documented in the OLED thread, and probably also in this one. If it's not scientific, then I don't know what to say. Others have tested this as well and came to the same conclusion. Asmodian has tested this on his C9, and found that his TV behaves slightly differently, and that he prefers a different setting. No argument from me. I only have the C7, and I report what I see and try to help people that have issues with banding.

[huhn]

not here to say what you see is wrong but debanding works different.
is done at the source it doesn't know about the output setting so doesn't behavior any different based on rendering bit deep or GPU send bit deep.

that's just a fact and this should make sense to you.

[chros]

Anyway, I'm just telling you what I see with my own eyes. This is after owning and messing with this C7 for three years. Same video card, same rig, all this time. And you know this isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with each other. Everyone should do their own tests.
+1, I agree :)

[VBB]

Thanks chros ;) I had this long reply to huhn typed up, but then I'm thinking, unless we're all in front of the same display at the same time, it doesn't make too much sense to argue here. I understand the science, and I also know what I'm seeing, and right now I have it dialed in to where it doesn't get any better, for what I'm looking to get out of this particular TV.

[QBhd]

No one was saying that your settings were wrong, people may disagree with them but that is choice and we all make our own choices. What they are trying to say is that part of your logic chain is wrong which led you to your choices. De-Banding has ZERO effect on the topic we are discussing, which is TV input setting and format/bit-depth of the GPU driver. There are two main types of banding, banding caused by the source and banding caused by the PC-TV setup. De-banding works on the source side. The topic being discussed is the PC-TV setup side.

QB

[cesar73]

Hello,

This is certainly a HDR newbie question: who should use Madvr HDR tone mapping feature ?

I mean, I have an old OLED 4K HDR TV (LG 55C6) and no video projector. I watch a few 4K HDR HEVC mkv video files, but mostly 1080p non HDR x264 files. I am using HDR passthrough in Madvr settings until now.

1/ Is HDR tone mapping made only for video projector to simulate HDR ?
2/ For 4K HDR TV, can it render better dynamic color for HDR video files better than HDR passthrough settings ?
3/ or can it simulate HDR on HDR TV for non HDR 1080p video files ?

[tp4tissue]

Hello,

This is certainly a HDR newbie question: who should use Madvr HDR tone mapping feature ?

I mean, I have an old OLED 4K HDR TV (LG 55C6) and no video projector. I watch a few 4K HDR HEVC mkv video files, but mostly 1080p non HDR x264 files. I am using HDR passthrough in Madvr settings until now.

1/ Is HDR tone mapping made only for video projector to simulate HDR ?
2/ For 4K HDR TV, can it render better dynamic color for HDR video files better than HDR passthrough settings ?
3/ or can it simulate HDR on HDR TV for non HDR 1080p video files ?

The OLED does it's own tone-mapping in HDR mode.

Using MADVR Tonemapping, it does the tonemapping into the SDR mode of the TV. <you're still getting HDR output> just mapped to a different expected input.

It's a difference in the FLAVOR of the tonemapping, but both image are tonemapped to the "EXPECTED" capability of the TV.

YOU DECIDE, which look you like better.

<Most people in the thread prefers Madvr at this point, because of all the tweaks and features that we can now control>

However, the OLED's tonemapping is end to end certified, Some people prefer that. For example, while LG's oleds are not reference monitors used to master on, they are used as part of the output check for the dolby vision workflow.

[Cowboydude99]

Hi can someone help me figure out what the difference is from using madvr tone mapping vs pass through?

I’m using a PJ. 99.% of the content I watch is 4K HDR.

Would using tone mapping vs the projector’s tone mapping be better?

I set my gpu to 4:2:2 12b.

I have to play video at 60hz because the projector has too much judder when in 23hz and 24hz.

[tp4tissue]

Hi can someone help me figure out what the difference is from using madvr tone mapping vs pass through?

I’m using a PJ. 99.% of the content I watch is 4K HDR.

Would using tone mapping vs the projector’s tone mapping be better?

I set my gpu to 4:2:2 12b.

I have to play video at 60hz because the projector has too much judder when in 23hz and 24hz.

From a previous post from a JVC owner, stick to 8bit 444 output. There seems to be some issue with the projector being flippant with the gamma input lvls.

Use madvr's tonemapping, it's better than JVC's by far.

The projector is srgb gamut, so you don't have to worry about the color. Although I'd still recommend getting a colorimeter to get the gamma/ whitepoint/ greybalance tweaked.

[Cowboydude99]

I must have a misunderstanding of HDR. I thought you needed at least 10b color for hdr.

Is that not the case?

[tp4tissue]

I must have a misunderstanding of HDR. I thought you needed at least 10b color for hdr.

Is that not the case?

No, you don't need 10bit.

10 bit is data, 100% blue is still 100% blue whether it's 10 bit or 8 bit. The data is mapped to the physical capabilities of the projector.

Madvr takes 10bit, does it's thing, outputs 8-bit. You still get the smooth gradients, that's already in the data.

10bit in data, gives you better representation of gradients. However it does not work out that way in practice in the physical output devices.

It's kind of like Pro-Audio upsell of 192khz, when really all you need is 44.1khz.

[Klaus1189]

Claude Shannon and Harry Nyquist ;)

[tp4tissue]

Claude Shannon and Harry Nyquist ;)

I don't even listen to music anymore , because the audiophile community has ruined music for me for life. :D

[Cowboydude99]

Ok... so it just comes down to gradients/banding?

I will up it to 444/8b.

Then try the tone mapping in Madvr.

And guides on what I should be setting?

Would you normally take screenshots of both to compare?

I don’t have a light meter, so I can get the nits.

[Klaus1189]

I don't even listen to music anymore , because the audiophile community has ruined music for me for life. :D

How did they do that? Just listen and enjoy :)

[tp4tissue]

How did they do that? Just listen and enjoy :)

No, I h8 them and hope they die. :D

[mzso]

Yes you can.

If your display goes Above 100 nits, Then technically, it supports HDR.

Anything above 100 nit is HDR.

Specific to HDR Highlights, lightsaber, fire, neon, for a good representation of these elements you need around 300-400 nits at the lowest. WHICH , most newer IPS/VA LCD panels can easily do.

Black level will be terrible for IPS, and it'll still crush shadow detail, but that's always been the case With or without HDR.

For good HDR , you want at the minimum a VA panel with 300-400nits,. OLED is the king of the hill FOR NOW, until LMCL comes out later this year.

MADVR allows all PCs to Playback HDR on NON-HDR displays. You need a minimum of 1060gtx 6gb, 1070 Recommended.

Turing gpu 1660ti/2060 etc works with some tweaks, but it is NOT recomended for the moment because there are glitches. 10xx series has the best compatibility, and they're alot cheaper.

Thanks for the info. So I guess that would mean that I would need to run the display with the backlight at maximum?
(No worries about IPS, I avoided it, the type was rather repulsive to me with the backlight gushing in at moderate angles and the weak blacks.)

" HDR Highlights, lightsaber, fire, neon," - You lost me here. What are these?

What Is LMCL? I've read about a lot of display technologies but this is unfamiliar.



MADVR allows all PCs to Playback HDR on NON-HDR displays. You need a minimum of 1060gtx 6gb, 1070 Recommended.

Turing gpu 1660ti/2060 etc works with some tweaks, but it is NOT recomended for the moment because there are glitches. 10xx series has the best compatibility, and they're alot cheaper.
Second hand 1060 6GB.. cheap and so worth it.
Will perform marvelously for SDR and reasonably well for HDR, I used to own one and it was good.
So I guess AMD cards are not recommended for some reason since no-one mentions them?

[tp4tissue]

Thanks for the info. So I guess that would mean that I would need to run the display with the backlight at maximum?
(No worries about IPS, I avoided it, the type was rather repulsive to me with the backlight gushing in at moderate angles and the weak blacks.)

" HDR Highlights, lightsaber, fire, neon," - You lost me here. What are these?

What Is LMCL? I've read about a lot of display technologies but this is unfamiliar.

So I guess AMD cards are not recommended for some reason since no-one mentions them?

In any 1 scene, the only thing that's in the HDR range is the lightsaber, and some of the light cast from it. The cloths, the trees, the ground is mainly still in the SDR range.

LMCL is a double layer lcd capable of NEAR oled like black levels while having no possibility of burn in. It also has the same full-field brightness capabilities as LCDs, 400-500nit consumer end, 1000nit studio pro. Whereas oled can only do ~100-200nits fullfield.

Sony has already abandoned their HX300 OLED color grading monitor with hx310 LMCL LCD <panasonic panel>

AMD cards are not recommended, Madshi doesn't have time these days to do all the bug fixes, AMD is very behind on compatibility, and glitches.

<not the fault of AMD> We've only got 1 highlander (madshi), and he doesn't have time to kill all the bugs.

[Cowboydude99]

No, you don't need 10bit.

10 bit is data, 100% blue is still 100% blue whether it's 10 bit or 8 bit. The data is mapped to the physical capabilities of the projector.

Madvr takes 10bit, does it's thing, outputs 8-bit. You still get the smooth gradients, that's already in the data.

10bit in data, gives you better representation of gradients. However it does not work out that way in practice in the physical output devices.

It's kind of like Pro-Audio upsell of 192khz, when really all you need is 44.1khz.

Madvr always outputs 8bit if not using the passthrough option?

And if so, shouldn’t I use RGB 8bit limited from the gpu?

[tp4tissue]

Madvr always outputs 8bit if not using the passthrough option?

And if so, shouldn’t I use RGB 8bit limited from the gpu?

this depends on the TV , in most cases rgb full 8bit is the way to go.

The only time you would use RGB limited is if the TV is jumping into a different mode, or some other anomaly occurs with expected picture lvls.

This is where a colorimeter would really help, in setting up and making sure the display chain isn't doing something funky.

[Cowboydude99]

Are there test images that would show what you’re tv is showing?

Just to make sure, you would always use hdr to sdr in Madvr, because madvr does a better job of tone mapping than the tv/pj?

Does tone mapping come into play when you have an sdr video too, or only hdr files?

If madvr always outputs 8bit aren’t you missing a lot of colors, ie wcg?

[tp4tissue]

Are there test images that would show what you’re tv is showing?

Just to make sure, you would always use hdr to sdr in Madvr, because madvr does a better job of tone mapping than the tv/pj?

Does tone mapping come into play when you have an sdr video too, or only hdr files?

If madvr always outputs 8bit aren’t you missing a lot of colors, ie wcg?

It's always better than projector tonemapping

TVs, it depends on the tv. LG/Panasonic oleds have pretty good tonemapping, some people prefer that instead.

Tone mapping only activates for HDR content.


The Gamut does not depend on 8bit or 10bit.

Think of gamut like a stick, you can measure it in yards, cm, inches, the stick is STILL the same length.

Some WCG displays have clamped modes that limits their gamut to match Rec709 for regular blurays.

This is not the case for your projector, your projector is slightly wider than rec709.

For the new 4K blurays, ideally you'd get a WCG display, but in reality, it's Not that big a deal because the majority of natural colors are in the rec709 range.

[Cowboydude99]

I guess my confusion is because 10b color is 1 billion colors, but 8 but is 16 million.

So now it’s up to your display for what it can actually display of the 10 bit range.

I guess?

My PJ can do rec 2020 at only 57%.
709 at 98%.
Dcip3 at 78%

Maybe that helps?

I just want to know what I should set my gpu to and then if I should use madvr tone mapping.

Bottom line is I want the best picture I can get!

How would you set yours up?

Which color would you tell madvr the display was calibrated to?

[mzso]

LMCL is a double layer lcd capable of NEAR oled like black levels while having no possibility of burn in. It also has the same full-field brightness capabilities as LCDs, 400-500nit consumer end, 1000nit studio pro. Whereas oled can only do ~100-200nits fullfield.

Interesting. Though I guess view angles will still suck.

[Asmodian]

I guess my confusion is because 10b color is 1 billion colors, but 8 but is 16 million.

So now it’s up to your display for what it can actually display of the 10 bit range.

No, this is not how it works. Bit depth is how many marks there are on the ruler. Gamut is the length of ruler.

rec 2020 has a longer ruler than DCI-P3, which is longer than BT.709. At the same bit depth they all have the same number of marks, rec 2020 simply has wider spacing between the marks. The extra colors of 10 bit are always between the 8 bit ones. Increasing the bit depth does not extend the length of the ruler, it adds more marks which decreases the spacing between the marks along the same length ruler.

[Cowboydude99]

I’m starting to get this now.

So the extra colors, between the 8bit marks, result in better gradients, but not actually better color?

So what gpu and madvr display properties would I use?

Since were talking about using the madvr tone mapping, which from what others have said, it is always 8 bit, I should set gpu to RGB 8b. I guess I can go full, and set madvr to 0-255?

Which color gamut would I select for the calibration in Madvr?

[tp4tissue]

Interesting. Though I guess view angles will still suck.

Viewing angle on LMCL is not as good as OLED. But it's on par with IPS. so viewing angle is not something you'd be worried about.

[tp4tissue]

My PJ can do rec 2020 at only 57%.
709 at 98%.
Dcip3 at 78%

How would you set yours up?

Which color would you tell madvr the display was calibrated to?

8 bit is 16m different NUMBERS mapping the gamut
10bit is 1 billion different NUMBERS mapping the SAME GAMUT.

the bit depth only refers to the mapping, the size of the world is the same.

I would use a colorimeter and go through a 3DLUT, this way you maximize the evenness and mapping of your available gamut.

But without one, you have nothing you can do on your end regarding color, because the color response is non-linear.

[Cowboydude99]

Yes that makes sense to me now.

So without the colorimeter I can’t really build a good 3dlut... so I’d be stuck with whatever the JVC does on its own.

I Googled how to create a 3D LUT- seems pretty straight forward with the ColorMunki. I was debating picking on up. I think I’ll go for it and give it a shot.

Looks like I’d use Displaycal to set it up.

https://hub.displaycal.net/wiki/3d-lut-creation-workflow-for-madvr-or-eecolor/

Last thing! Sorry you all have already been very helpful!

Should I go for RGB 8B Full or the 4:4:4 route at 8 bits?

Thank you again!

Edit: ordered a ColorMunki

I will try RGB Full 8bit as suggested.

Page 1 says to use RGB Full.

I will test and see what I like best!

Thank you all for you help.

[Cowboydude99]

I just looked at the options on the hdr tab.

If I want to fix colors for what is already HDR, do you choose process hdr or convert to sdr?

I’m not sure which one to choose.

The PJ is hdr, but obviously can’t produce a nice image like a TV set.

[tp4tissue]

I just looked at the options on the hdr tab.

If I want to fix colors for what is already HDR, do you choose process hdr or convert to sdr?

I’m not sure which one to choose.

The PJ is hdr, but obviously can’t produce a nice image like a TV set.

PM me when you get the colorimeter.

[Greenhorn]

Question for those who've used 3DLuts in madVR before:

If I have my display calibrated with an ICC profile (loaded via DisplayCAL), but wish to use a .3dlut entirely unrelated to that ICC profile with madVR, will checking "Disable GPU gamma ramps" suffice to keep the profile and LUT from interacting with each other? If not, will resetting the videocard gamma table on launching MadVR do the trick?