madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[nevcairiel]

Its not going to affect anything. In truth, using tools like CCleaner is usually a bad idea in general.

[mzso]

That's correct.


Oh, sh*t :) It's even older than mine (prev gen Fermi), but: it's a desktop GPU!
You can try out these ones as well for 4k hdr content, along with the "scale chroma seperately" setting:
- enable 1 more in trade performance: the 1 below "scale chroma seperately" setting (maybe it's called gamut mapping)
-- this one will screw up the colors, but it helps performance
- disable "highlight recovery" in hdr menu under your display (it's really taxing otherwise)
- enable crop black bars: that will help with wide-screen content a lot (but not with fullscreen ones)
- dithering: ordered

I think this time you should be able to use at least bicubic scalers for both luma and chroma.
If it's working then try to disable the above set gamut mapping setting in trade performance and see what happens.

Thanks for the tips.

[Siso]

Its not going to affect anything. In truth, using tools like CCleaner is usually a bad idea in general.

How come?

[huhn]

what are you expecting from a 3rd party tool playing around your registry and data by deleting data it's algorithm finds useless and claims it makes your PC faster by making free space on your disc? just download a couple GB of ram.
or disbaling start up programs because taksmanager startup is to hard to find and because you the user bloated it.

if you mess your PC up the fix is not CC whatever cleaner it's learn how to use a PC properly.

[Syst3mSh0ck]

what are you expecting from a 3rd party tool playing around your registry and data by deleting data it's algorithm finds useless and claims it makes your PC faster by making free space on your disc? just download a couple GB of ram.
or disbaling start up programs because taksmanager startup is to hard to find and because you the user bloated it.

if you mess your PC up the fix is not CC whatever cleaner it's learn how to use a PC properly.

Agreed but you don't need to be so harsh about it... :confused: CCleaner is useful for cleaning up temporary files in well known/defined folders (normally in the %appdata% or %programdata% directories). It's other functionality concerning the Registry is less safe, it does offer you to backup before touching anything though, and truth be told I've never corrupted any Hive by removing orphaned keys with CC.

[ryrynz]

How come?

Tools like this can remove data that can cause issues, even reducing performance, you're cleaning temp files usually that will just repopulate anyway and this makes it a never ending task with little to negative benefits. The only real reason to look at doing this is if you need extra space and freeing up a few GB of cache and temporary files is not really going to help much unless you have major storage issues. There should be some limits on how much data accumulates anyway. This sort of cleaning should really only apply to traces of activity you don't want seen or temporary files that are no longer required, leave it at that and don't make it a daily or even weekly task.
Also as above, disable real time monitoring.


Does doing that actually affect anything in terms of the picture (quality) with MPC-HC/madVR or is this just another one of my ideas (that doesn't have an anchor in reality)?


As Nev said, this will affect nothing in terms of picture quality or performance for video playback or even general system performance, it will however reduce performance for apps that have had their cache removed until it's repopulated and optimized.

[nussman]

Please open a CC Cleaner thread for further discussion, because its really OT here.

[ryrynz]

No kiddin, didn't need you to tell us.

[edigee]

NVIDIA 417.22 driver
Fixed!
""""- RGB color format does not get set correctly even when forced in the NVIDIA Control Panel
- Can't apply color format after updating to driver 417.01'''''

Did anyone try this driver?

[kostik]

NVIDIA 417.22 driver
Fixed!
""""- RGB color format does not get set correctly even when forced in the NVIDIA Control Panel
- Can't apply color format after updating to driver 417.01'''''

Did anyone try this driver?

Yes, worked fine. But there is a new driver: 417.35

[edigee]

The NVIDIA guys are kinda crazy workaholics! One driver /week.

[Betroz]

The NVIDIA guys are kinda crazy workaholics! One driver /week.

Mostly because of PC games.

[KoD]

I have two suggestions for madshi:

- when using the xysubfilter to render subtitles, in HDR mode, the bright white of the subtitles is destroying all dark scenes; please render the subtitles so that the white at 255, 255, 255 gets mapped to the code point for 100 cd or something like that (100 cd is the upper limit of the SDR range in HDR mastered content apparently)

- recent versions of madVR do not output higher than 8 bit per color when using nvidia drivers; please allow the output of 10 bits or more, do not restrict this in the software; when the drivers get fixed, nobody will know as nobody can test, and you are likely not testing every nvidia driver version yourself either; this kind of behavior should not be enforced in code, a warning in the settings dialog is the proper way to handle this (or a notice in the first post that anyone can read).

[NoSauce]

When I enter Full Screen Exclusive (FSE) mode on my external monitor there are extra black bars on the sides that squishes the video horizontally. This does not happen in Windowed mode. This does not happen on my non-external, laptop monitor whether it's FSE or windowed. Any suggestions? Thanks!

[huhn]

can you make a screen with the OSD?

- recent versions of madVR do not output higher than 8 bit per color when using nvidia drivers; please allow the output of 10 bits or more, do not restrict this in the software; when the drivers get fixed, nobody will know as nobody can test, and you are likely not testing every nvidia driver version yourself either; this kind of behavior should not be enforced in code, a warning in the settings dialog is the proper way to handle this (or a notice in the first post that anyone can read).

10 bit FSE was never removed if that helps you.

[actarusfleed]

this feature is already present. it can even be used with lens memory on some projectors.

you go to devices-> click on "your projector name" select digital projector -> screen config -> define visible screen area by cropping masked borders.

for 2160 it should be top bottom -~257. if these numbers are wrong i'm pretty sure you will find the correct ones.


Hi huhn, thank you but the function you suggest me seems a resizing ... let me explain it better.

I Set the Nvidia control panel like this:

http://audioquality.it/cloud/forum/madpan1.jpg

http://audioquality.it/cloud/forum/madpan2.jpg

So my desktop is now 3840x1642pixels.
21:9 = 2,33
3840:1642 = 2,33
the same format as my screen.

Now if I set Madvr like you suggested me I obtain a down sizing of a 16:9 frame .... and this is not what I need.

http://audioquality.it/cloud/forum/madpan3.jpg

http://audioquality.it/cloud/forum/madpan4.jpg

So I've deactivated the settings into Madvr and tried to use the function in MPC-HC "touch window from outside" ...

http://audioquality.it/cloud/forum/madpan5.jpg

this is exactly what I'm lookin' for!
16:9 frames cropped and perfectly inscribed into my 21:9 screen.
On the other side If I need to incribe all the 16:9 frames into my screen I've only the set MPC-HC into "touch window from outside" mode and the resulting image is a 16:9 frame fully iscribed without cropped portions of image.

All seems good.

Only one thing I'm not sure about ... look at this picture ...

http://audioquality.it/cloud/forum/madpan6.jpg

Why Madvr tells me that the scaling is at 1900 vertical pixels ??
My desktop is 1642 not 1900!

3840:1900 = 2,02 that is not my screen format ....:confused:

thanks a lot for any clarification.

[olli66]

hi friends,
I don't know what happened but HDR playback ain't working no more. It always worked. 4k UHD TV, NVIDIA->HDMI to TV, latest MPC-HC version and latest madvr version and HDR passthrough activated. Display always switched to HDR when playing HDR files now it ain't switching. If I enable HDR in Windows 10 64bit the colors look crazy when playing a video.
Did a Windows update cause this mailfunction?
Anyone having the same problem?

[nevcairiel]

Only one thing I'm not sure about ... look at this picture ...

Why Madvr tells me that the scaling is at 1900 vertical pixels ??
My desktop is 1642 not 1900!

3840:1900 = 2,02 that is not my screen format ....:confused:

thanks a lot for any clarification.

What it tells you there is the position of the image, not the screen size.

Its 0,-260,3840,1900, thats left/top/right/bottom - which means that the image starts 259 pixel above your screen, and ends 259 pixel below it. This then makes a full 3840x2160 16:9 image, with the top/bottom cropped off.
The top/bottom of the image have to go somewhere, afterall. They just happen to be outside of the visible area of your screen.

[KrazyLurt]

NVIDIA 417.22 driver
Fixed!
""""- RGB color format does not get set correctly even when forced in the NVIDIA Control Panel
- Can't apply color format after updating to driver 417.01'''''

Did anyone try this driver?
417.22 and 417.35 still have issues with full/limited , see my earlier posts. Still broken sadly.
416.xx is the last working driver with the colorspace

[el Filou]

Edit: forget this, I didn't realize it was happening only with HDR switching which I don't use, apologies.
(No issues with RGB Full 8-bit with 417.22 on my 1050 Ti under Windows 1803)

[huhn]

@actarusfleed

you are using DXVA native which results in blackbar detection isn't working.

the next problem is you are using different tools to fix your issue. not saying it can't fix your issues but you should only choice one.

but as soon as you are getting blackbar detection working either the nvidia cropping or the madVR masking should give you the results you are looking for.

if your projector have lens memory the madVR way give you more resolution.

[Arm3nian]

Does NCP bit depth effect madvr exclusive mode?

[huhn]

the nvidia control panel changes the format that it send to the display.
madVR is sending images to the GPU driver.

NCP bit deep setting has no effect on what madVR is sending the GPU driver.

[chros]

- recent versions of madVR do not output higher than 8 bit per color when using nvidia drivers
What was the exact condition for this and which madvr version introduced it? Thanks for mentioning :)
I don't remember it, I tried to look through the changelog but I couldn't find it.
I currently use fullscreen windowed mode on Win10 (nvidia).

[KoD]

huhn, chros: it does not work with FSE or windowed mode since some version of madVR. The OSD says "D3D11 exclusive (8bit)" or "D3D11 windowed (8 bit)". So, even if you have (10 bit, RGB, full) on the display line, madVR is only outputting 8 bit, and then the driver resamples this up to 10 or 12 bit and sends it to your TV or monitor.

I remember the reason madshi gave back then was that the nvidia driver was introducing banding when outputting more than 8 bits. He then deliberately disabled 10 bit ouput in madVR on nvidia cards.

I don't know if when using the proprietary NV HDR API it's also 8 bit content that madVR is outputting. If it is, then it can't be good since 8 bit is not enough to cover the larger colorspace used for HDR.

[edigee]

I remember the reason madshi gave back then was that the nvidia driver was introducing banding when outputting more than 8 bits. He then deliberately disabled 10 bit ouput in madVR on nvidia cards.


So ,what is the last version with 10 bit output?

[Warner306]

huhn, chros: it does not work with FSE or windowed mode since some version of madVR. The OSD says "D3D11 exclusive (8bit)" or "D3D11 windowed (8 bit)". So, even if you have (10 bit, RGB, full) on the display line, madVR is only outputting 8 bit, and then the driver resamples this up to 10 or 12 bit and sends it to your TV or monitor.

I remember the reason madshi gave back then was that the nvidia driver was introducing banding when outputting more than 8 bits. He then deliberately disabled 10 bit ouput in madVR on nvidia cards.

I don't know if when using the proprietary NV HDR API it's also 8 bit content that madVR is outputting. If it is, then it can't be good since 8 bit is not enough to cover the larger colorspace used for HDR.

8-bit works just fine for HDR. It gets sent with dithering and the display doesn't know any different. Those with LG OLEDs seem to be getting better results with 8-bit output than 12-bit output.

The most recent build should output 10-bits in windowed mode with Windows 10.

[Asmodian]

I don't know if when using the proprietary NV HDR API it's also 8 bit content that madVR is outputting. If it is, then it can't be good since 8 bit is not enough to cover the larger colorspace used for HDR.

8 bit really is fine for HDR, in fact try setting madVR to 7 bit to see what effect lowering madVR's output bitdepth has. The difference between 8 bit and 10 bit is 1/2 the magnitude of 7 to 8 bit. 7-bit does not cause banding, it is just a bit more noisey but even that is pretty subtle, especially with ordered dithering. The tiny bit of extra dithering noise might even hide banding in the source.

Test with your eyes, don't simply assume 10 bit is always better than 8 bit. It is definitely worse on my system (LG C7 OLED).

At the same time; for an HDR source we do need at least 10 bit, this is because lossy compression does not preserve dithering.

[chros]

I remember the reason madshi gave back then was that the nvidia driver was introducing banding when outputting more than 8 bits. He then deliberately disabled 10 bit ouput in madVR on nvidia cards.

Thanks, I forgot it, since I wasn't affected with my old optimus laptop.

it does not work with FSE or windowed mode since some version of madVR. The OSD says "D3D11 exclusive (8bit)" or "D3D11 windowed (8 bit)".

OK, so the OSD provides this info.

The most recent build should output 10-bits in windowed mode with Windows 10.

That's correct, and it's working indeed but only when the player window (mpc-hc/be) is fullscreen (doesn't have to be exclusive mode):
- the OSD says "D3D11 fullscreen windowed (10 bit)"
- "10 bit (or higher)" is set in madvr under Devices > device > properties > native display bitdepth
- 12 bit is set for the TV in nvidia control panel; there's no such setting for my 1080p monitor using dvi cable (it also works on my monitor)
- currently using madvr-measure28 (from avsforum)
- 1080p displays! (see my signature for the rest)
- checked with 1080p and 2160p hdr content as well

What was the exact condition for this?

I asked this, because there are tons of condition that can modify this behaivour as well.
Do you have a 4k display? If so, maybe nvidia driver is tricking you (there's not enough bandwidth for 4k 60Hz 12bit). If that's the case then @Manni provided couple of simple steps how to trick the driver.

[Warner306]

That's correct, and it's working indeed but only when the player window (mpc-hc/be) is fullscreen (doesn't have to be exclusive mode):
- the OSD says "D3D11 fullscreen windowed (10 bit)"
- "10 bit (or higher)" is set in madvr under Devices > device > properties > native display bitdepth
- 12 bit is set for the TV in nvidia control panel; there's no such setting for my 1080p monitor using dvi cable (it also works on my monitor)
- currently using madvr-measure28 (from avsforum)
- 1080p displays! (see my signature for the rest)
- checked with 1080p and 2160p hdr content as well

Sounds normal to me.

[KoD]

So, I found out why I did not have 10 bit output in either fullscreen windowed of exclusive modes. It was because I had the "native display bitdepth" set as 8 bit in the madVR display device settings. With this configured to 10 bit, I have 10 bit output in both fullscreen windowed or exclusive modes. It's 8 bit only when the player is not playing fullscreen.

I also remembered why I did not leave the "native display bitdepth" setting to "auto" in madVR. It was because madVR would output 10 bit even when the nvidia driver was configured for 8 bit output (madVR knows this, but it does not seem to matter).

[Arm3nian]

That's correct, and it's working indeed but only when the player window (mpc-hc/be) is fullscreen (doesn't have to be exclusive mode):
- the OSD says "D3D11 fullscreen windowed (10 bit)"
- "10 bit (or higher)" is set in madvr under Devices > device > properties > native display bitdepth
- 12 bit is set for the TV in nvidia control panel
I just got my Q8FN an hour ago so bare with me.
At 4k 60Hz I only have the option of 8bpc in NCP. If I lower it to 30Hz then I get the 12bpc option as well. I was just wondering why there is no 10bpc option anywhere. MadVR reports the display is capable of 8, 10, 12bpc. I'm using a 980 ti and have two HDMI 2.0 cables from monoprice, a 6ft one and a 50ft active one :)

For my setup I have to go into fullscreen as well. Otherwise madVR is outputting HDR but the TV isn't displaying it (doesn't switch to HDR mode). But fullscreen, exclusive or not, gives NV HDR 12 bit. I didn't have to set 10 bit for native display bitdepth or higher as the auto selected it for me.

Also, what do you have selected in NCP? RGB Full range?

[dwaleke]

I just got my Q8FN an hour ago so bare with me.
At 4k 60Hz I only have the option of 8bpc in NCP. If I lower it to 30Hz then I get the 12bpc option as well. I was just wondering why there is no 10bpc option anywhere. MadVR reports the display is capable of 8, 10, 12bpc. I'm using a 980 ti and have two HDMI 2.0 cables from monoprice, a 6ft one and a 50ft active one :)

For my setup I have to go into fullscreen as well. Otherwise madVR is outputting HDR but the TV isn't displaying it (doesn't switch to HDR mode). But fullscreen, exclusive or not, gives NV HDR 12 bit. I didn't have to set 10 bit for native display bitdepth or higher as the auto selected it for me.

Also, what do you have selected in NCP? RGB Full range?

HDMI 2.0 does not have enough bandwidth to do 4k60hz 10/12bit RGB output.

You need to drop down to 12bit YCbCr 4:2:2 or 8bit RGB @ > 30hz.

[Warner306]

I just got my Q8FN an hour ago so bare with me.
At 4k 60Hz I only have the option of 8bpc in NCP. If I lower it to 30Hz then I get the 12bpc option as well. I was just wondering why there is no 10bpc option anywhere. MadVR reports the display is capable of 8, 10, 12bpc. I'm using a 980 ti and have two HDMI 2.0 cables from monoprice, a 6ft one and a 50ft active one :)

For my setup I have to go into fullscreen as well. Otherwise madVR is outputting HDR but the TV isn't displaying it (doesn't switch to HDR mode). But fullscreen, exclusive or not, gives NV HDR 12 bit. I didn't have to set 10 bit for native display bitdepth or higher as the auto selected it for me.

Also, what do you have selected in NCP? RGB Full range?

You could try to configure things this way: https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=223175&pid=2739438#pid2739438.

[giulianoprs]

why according to the type of file controlling OSD do I have some "dropped frames" (3-6-9 or 12)? this happens above all with files at 23.976 while 25fps files statistics are excellent, 0 dropped frames, 0 repeats! even renders are always lower with files at 25 fps. What could I enable to make sure that there are no "dropped frames"?
I'm using the Chroma upscalling NGU standard medium. Thanks to everyone.

[XMonarchY]

With madVR's 24Hz custom resolution, I can only select 8bit or empty space in NVidia CP, but my 2008 TV normally allows up to 12bit. The default for 24Hz madVR custom resolution is empty space, but 10bit is selected in madVR and I asked it's some UI bug. Empty space is probably 12bit.

BTW, will madVR utilize NVidia's AI cores to further improve quality?

[Warner306]

why according to the type of file controlling OSD do I have some "dropped frames" (3-6-9 or 12)? this happens above all with files at 23.976 while 25fps files statistics are excellent, 0 dropped frames, 0 repeats! even renders are always lower with files at 25 fps. What could I enable to make sure that there are no "dropped frames"?
I'm using the Chroma upscalling NGU standard medium. Thanks to everyone.

What does this line say in the OSD?

1 frame drop every xx minutes

It is likely clock jitter, which is normal. The only way to improve that is with a custom resolution. The question is whether you actually noticed any of those dropped frames?

[Asmodian]

Smooth motion is a great way to avoid dropped frames and not deal with custom refresh rates.

[ryrynz]

BTW, will madVR utilize NVidia's AI cores to further improve quality?

Asked before. This remains to be seen and if useful it will be a long way off yet.


Smooth motion is a great way to avoid dropped frames and not deal with custom refresh rates.

It's a wonder why panel manufacturers haven't pushed high refresh rate panels to do this. I expect 100+hz frame blending aka Smooth Motion looks quite good.

[huhn]

UHD 120 hz 8 bit panels are pretty much the norm for the high end the problem is just we can't access the 120 hz properly.

maybe with HDMI 2.1 but i guess they will just add more pixels and stay at 60 hz.

[seiyafan]

Got another dumb question, does MadVR favor any of the newer units in RTX vs GTX in terms of performance? For example does 2070 have similar performance as a 1080 the way they do in games? Same thing can be asked for 2080 and 1080Ti.
Thanks!

[Asmodian]

No, madVR does not use any of the new RTX features, the performance similarities from current games carry over to madVR too.

[ryrynz]

UHD 120 hz 8 bit panels are pretty much the norm for the high end the problem is just we can't access the 120 hz properly.

maybe with HDMI 2.1 but i guess they will just add more pixels and stay at 60 hz.

Yeah, we'll be able to do it ourselves with madVR at that point but frame blending could've be added by TV manufacturers using the panels unexposed native refresh. With the likes of Tom Cruise and Christopher McQuarrie saying "Please turn Motion interpolation off, this is not how the film should be watched" and with the Soap Opera effect being wildly known and typically despised for over a decade, I wonder why any TV manufacturer hasn't simply added this alternative as an option?

[giulianoprs]

Warner, yesterday I saw 1 movie and an episode of TV series and I did not see anything strange, no shooting and frame lost, but I can not understand why if I look at the OSD I always know those few "dropped frames".
Smooth motion is an "interpolation"? I prefer not to activate "Smooth motion" I prefer the original cadence of the film, with nothing added.

https://imgur.com/a/UPstRZu

[Manni]

Got another dumb question, does MadVR favor any of the newer units in RTX vs GTX in terms of performance? For example does 2070 have similar performance as a 1080 the way they do in games? Same thing can be asked for 2080 and 1080Ti.
Thanks!

As Asmodian said, MadVR doesn't use any of the new features yet, but when/if it does it should make a significant difference.

FYI Madshi himself doesn't advise buying GTX GPUs anymore at this stage but recommends RTX instead. He has made no promises or committed to anything, but it's most likely his intention to take advantage of the new architecture in the future with MadVR.

So no differences now, but down the line possibly a significant one.

If you want best possible PQ in HDR using MAdVR's excellent HDR tonemapping with all options/features available, I wouldn't buy anything below a 2080 (roughly equal to 1080ti), and I recommend a 2080ti if you can afford it to have some headroom. My 1080ti is struggling with the latest HDR test algos and I have to use it in D3D11 native as Copyback isn't up to the task without degrading quality. That means I lose black bar detection with D3D11 native, or have to lower the quality of chroma upscaling (using NGU AA High at the moment, so it's possible to downgrade without too much of a downside visually).

My plan is to upgrade the 1080ti as soon as nVidia releases a model supporting HDMI 2.1 and 7nm, at some point in 2019.

[Betroz]

Any advantage to setting the display/TV to 12-bit in Nvidia control panel when the movie is encoded in 8-bit anyway? Or is it best to just leave it at 8-bit?

[Warner306]

No, not really.

[Warner306]

Warner, yesterday I saw 1 movie and an episode of TV series and I did not see anything strange, no shooting and frame lost, but I can not understand why if I look at the OSD I always know those few "dropped frames".
Smooth motion is an "interpolation"? I prefer not to activate "Smooth motion" I prefer the original cadence of the film, with nothing added.

https://imgur.com/a/UPstRZu

It is a bit hard to explain why this happens. Read the section in this post labelled "Custom Modes." Like I said before, it has something to do with the synchronization of the playback clocks:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188&pid=2238942#pid2238942

[Asmodian]

Smooth motion is an "interpolation"? I prefer not to activate "Smooth motion" I prefer the original cadence of the film, with nothing added.

Smooth motion is not interpolation, it is designed to get the movie to play at its original cadence while playing on the display's refresh rate. Please trust your eyes. :)

[huhn]

Yeah, we'll be able to do it ourselves with madVR at that point but frame blending could've be added by TV manufacturers using the panels unexposed native refresh. With the likes of Tom Cruise and Christopher McQuarrie saying "Please turn Motion interpolation off, this is not how the film should be watched" and with the Soap Opera effect being wildly known and typically despised for over a decade, I wonder why any TV manufacturer hasn't simply added this alternative as an option?

because frame rate matching is hands down the better alternative.