madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[VBB]

What I recommended to mparade I would only do on the LG OLEDs, although it's worth testing on other TVs as well. I had always used an RGB Full 8-bit chain, until I recently discovered that you can get rid of pretty much all panel-related banding by using YCbCr 4:2:2 10-bit.

[70MM]

I have a fairly large curved scope screen 145" and use the JVC X9 projector and an Isco III lens. Madvr is set to NGU AA med for chroma upscaling and NGU sharp very high for luma doubling the image is beautiful on most ripped BDs. But I also screen a number of early films (BDs) from the 40s/50s where the film grain is often excessive, what settings whould be better for these please? Does that grain show up more through the chroma or luma, or equally through both? I really still want a sharp image but soften the grain....

[mclingo]

What I recommended t

hi, can you recommend a clip where you can definately see banding on 8 bit with an oled, i never really know if what i'm seeing is source related.

[tp4tissue]

I think if your TV is already calibrated, then no need to do anything else. Unless ... :)
Your Oppo uses a different chain than your PC with madvr, video card output, Black level setting on the TV, etc.

It should depend on what standard his TV is calibrated to.

What gamma target, what gamma curve, is it 0-255 or 16-235, etc.

[tp4tissue]

Panasonic is a good example for this: even its current OLED lineup (that has 240/120Hz LG panel in it) can't do 24p judder free with chroma 4:4:4 (PC mode). Don't ask why :)

Samsung can't do it in pc mode either. :scared:

[mparade]

hi, can you recommend a clip where you can definately see banding on 8 bit with an oled, i never really know if what i'm seeing is source related.

Captain Marvel HDR version, Torfa scene
C9V OLED here

[VBB]

hi, can you recommend a clip where you can definately see banding on 8 bit with an oled, i never really know if what i'm seeing is source related.

Check out these posts:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1892970#post1892970

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1893186#post1893186

[glc650]

Using madVR with mpc-hc on Windows 10. Just got a 4k HDR TV. Is there a way to prevent the TV from switching to HDR mode until after madvr enter (windowed) full screen mode?

[chros]

Samsung can't do it in pc mode either. :scared:
Which model(s)?

[mclingo]

cheers, i'll have a look, I dont use PC mode though as on my TV it doesnt give the correct results, its hard to describle, its like HDR mode isnt enabled but it is but also the gamm curve is odd, its hard to describe, it only does this in PC mode though, find in HDMI and other modes, suspect a bug with this model, its first gen LG OLED@ 450 nits so barely even a HDR TV anyway.

[mclingo]

out of interest, given all the issues we've had with NVIDIA/AMD HDR API why doesnt MADVR use windows HDR, or have an option switch for that, is this something anyone has asked for or is there a very good reason not to use this?

[chros]

out of interest, given all the issues we've had with NVIDIA/AMD HDR API why doesnt MADVR use windows HDR, or have an option switch for that, is this something anyone has asked for or is there a very good reason not to use this?
There *was* back in the day but it was removed, I don't remember
in which version and - more importantly - why :)

[mclingo]

seems like a good time to put this back in to give people choices, especially with AMD breaking HDR on the 5700's, MADSHI is nowhere to be seen though, hasnt really engaged any issues for a while now beyond the latest 112 HDR beta, he's likely busy still working on ENVY release.

Have to admit though, was hoping to see a christmas stable release :)

[oldpainlesskodi]

There *was* back in the day but it was removed, I don't remember
in which version and - more importantly - why :)

If anyone knows which version that is in, it would make my Christmas lol.

[mclingo]

I think its this one but cant test it right now, pretty old too.

v0.91.10:
* improved Windows 10 HDR metadata support
* added new option "hack Direct3D to make 24.000Hz and 60.000Hz work"
* performance improvement with "trust DXVA" + "use D3D11 for presentation"
* fixed: Intel GPU driver flickering bug with "use D3D11 for presentation"
* fixed: madVR(64).ax files were larger than necessary
* Intel: 10bit DXVA surfaces are now converted to 10bit RGB (instead of 8bit)


https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij8Miotvt9W5oQoBzcQ?e=ncRG1t

[oldpainlesskodi]

Yeah, think I tried that one and 0.91.11 - does not trigger HDR on my card. Thanks for looking though. Will stick with the Win 10 toggle until it get's resolved - it's a pain, but not the end of the world.

[brazen1]

If I remember correctly, when Windows API was offered, it did not switch HDR mode at display level meaning it did engage but it didn't auto change contrast and backlight in display settings. It had to be done manually and that alone lost my interest. Consider many Windows builds have released since then. I can tell you that players like DVDFab Media Player v3 used private API's and worked. v5 now uses Windows API and it works including switching at display level. No idea how v6 functions? If Windows API was reintroduced to madVr, it might work better now although for me personally I'd probably continue on with nVidia API.

Happy holidays my fellow geeks!

[mclingo]

cheers for the info :)

[VBB]

Using madVR with mpc-hc on Windows 10. Just got a 4k HDR TV. Is there a way to prevent the TV from switching to HDR mode until after madvr enter (windowed) full screen mode?

It should not switch into HDR mode until the video starts playing. So, for me it goes like this:

1. Click on file to be played
2. MPC-HC opens in FS windowed mode
3. TV switches into HDR mode and video starts playing

[glc650]

It should not switch into HDR mode until the video starts playing. So, for me it goes like this:

1. Click on file to be played
2. MPC-HC opens in FS windowed mode
3. TV switches into HDR mode and video starts playingI don't start my mpc-hc in full screen. And I don't see any options regarding turning off auto play (upon clicking a file) or opening a window paused.

[JoelArt]

Does anyone know if its possible to get stutter free or perfectly smooth 3:2 pulldown for 24p with a 60hz refreshrate on a PC with an Nvidia card. This would be super nice on my Sony Z9F as it can extract and do frame interpolation of 24 sources in 60hz streams, but so far all player and renderers I've tried will skip frames and render the pulldown unevenly and thus confusing the Motionflow algorithm making panning a frustrating stutter.

I know I can change the refresh rate to get smooth playback but then the mouse movement and windows will feel super sluggish and switching between refresh rates is super annoying manually, and even if I set up the player to do it automatically the whole screen goes black for a moment making jumping in and out a video to check something in a browser, eg a word or an actor/ess really jarring. I quite often have a show or a movie in progress but minimized while I work on other stuff where 60hz is required, it would a sooo incredibly nice to be able to keep the refreshrate at all times.

Is this possible?

PS. the MPC-HC Sync Renderer comes pretty close to a perfect 3:2 pulldown but it still stutter too often.

[Msarc]

Is this possible?
You could try:
- Enabling Smooth Motion in MadVR.
- Using ReClock (https://forum.redfox.bz/threads/reclock-1-9-0-7-beta.74875/) as your audio renderer. It's only 32-bit, though.

[VBB]

Smooth motion is the way to do this, but I'd only recommend this on an OLED. It does make motion ever so slightly more blurry, which helps with the stutter on the super fast OLED panels. Try it on the LCD and see if you like it.

[el Filou]

If JoelArt's TV can really reconstruct 24p from 3:2 60p, then it may be better for him to try and get perfect 3:2 playback using a custom resolution or ReClock than with Smooth Motion.

[nevcairiel]

Most modern TVs can do that, but madVR is not designed to offer that perfect 3:2 pattern - and madshi said as much.

[JoelArt]

I've tried the smooth motion in madVr but the blended frames disturbs my TV's motion interpolation algo. and you still kinda get stutter so it's not a good solution. I tried ReClock but I haven't found any setting in it that works with potplayerm MPC-HC or BE versions. Does someone know how to set up perfect working ReClock with any of those?

[Zenvota]

Any news on convergence correction?

[VBB]

I've tried the smooth motion in madVr but the blended frames disturbs my TV's motion interpolation algo. and you still kinda get stutter so it's not a good solution.

If you need to use interpolation, smooth motion is not for you. They don't go together.

[Siso]

I wish if smooth motion could be more refined, less blur and more natural look like multiple x24 refresh rate...and less sharpness loss.

[huhn]

as said many times before everything that changes the results will make it mathematical incorrect.

the not neutral look, blur and sharpness loss are just a problem of your screen.

smooth motion will never be able to beat frame rate matching at best you will not see the difference but your device has to be up to this task.

[el Filou]

I tried ReClock but I haven't found any setting in it that works with potplayerm MPC-HC or BE versions. Does someone know how to set up perfect working ReClock with any of those?What do you mean no settings that work? ReClock is automatic. Its icon should turn yellow and it should say something like "Cannot sync this CINEMA video to your hardware, but to improve playback media will be played at 24.000 fps".

[Morgin187]

Hey folks. I've been trying so many settings but cant get rid of colour banding. My question is what settings in Madvr, TV (samsung qled) and pc effect colour banding and artifacts in dark scenes (purple'ish box's). I've tried everything. please help

[JoelArt]

What do you mean no settings that work? ReClock is automatic. Its icon should turn yellow and it should say something like "Cannot sync this CINEMA video to your hardware, but to improve playback media will be played at 24.000 fps".

Ah yes I get that with ReClock as well but the frame cadence isn't stable and my Motionflow stutters a lot.

But I might have finally found a working solution: In PotPlayer 32-bit, if I install (don't know if its build in but I have it installed) and use AviSynth and put this in the script:
potplayer_source()
ChangeFPS(30)

I get a very stable frame cadenced and far and few stutters. So it seem I now can keep my desktop refresh rate at 60hz and watch 24p movies as I wished for. I have tried it on a couple of movies, aniem and even with HDR and madVR and it seem to work just fine but I need more testing to be sure.

[Siso]

your device has to be up to this task.

By device you mean monitor or video card?

[VBB]

He means the display. Having used smooth motion myself for about half a year now, I can say that, at least on my OLED, it does not alter the original look at all. And like I said earlier, the slight blur is welcome, because without it, OLED motion is too harsh at 24Hz. In order for smooth motion to work, you have to disable all interpolation and pull-down/cadence processing, and of course run everything at 60Hz.

[Siso]

He means the display. Having used smooth motion myself for about half a year now, I can say that, at least on my OLED, it does not alter the original look at all. And like I said earlier, the slight blur is welcome, because without it, OLED motion is too harsh at 24Hz. In order for smooth motion to work, you have to disable all interpolation and pull-down/cadence processing, and of course run everything at 60Hz.

That's true, I'm using a refresh rate of 72 hz with reclock on a monitor, tested 2 days ago smooth motion on 60 hz, and it felt little weird to me. But as huhn said, in one review I read that my monitor has mediocre motion handling...

[ryrynz]

Having used smooth motion myself for about half a year now, I can say that, at least on my OLED, it does not alter the original look at all. And like I said earlier, the slight blur is welcome, because without it, OLED motion is too harsh at 24Hz. It's noticeable to me on mine. It was most noticeable on animated content which is also where I noticed it more on my plasma too. The overall crispness of the picture was slightly dulled making it less vibrant and less pleasing to look at. I didn't think it would matter as much on an OLED based on Asmodian's testimony of the same but the difference to me is rather apparent. I'll sacrifice the motion smoothing in this case.

[VBB]

What I mean by original look is there is no interpolation applied with smooth motion. SM only blends frames. It does nothing else to the picture.

[WuNgUn]

Whenever I'm watching a movie, and subtitles come on, I get a stutter and then playback just starts dropping frames....
If I stop and restart, playback is fine again, until subs are shown again.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[huhn]

if you use the new subtitle interface then there is little you can do about it to really fix it.

madVR knows there are subtitles but it doesn't prepare to render them the needed rendersteps are not loaded and when it has to display subs is has to do this instantly which is not possible under all situations and after that it buffers them it will stop after a while if subtitles aren't shown for a long time so the issue can happen more then one time per file.

you can try small queue a different subtitle renderer like xy vsfilter and settings that doesn't make your GPU do much work so it maybe fast enough to avoid the dropping of frames.

[x7007]

Do we still need to change in nvidia cp to YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit or 12bit for best HDR in the player like potplayer? or just enable OS HDR vs NV HDR? what is the best course?

[WuNgUn]

Do we still need to change in nvidia cp to YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit or 12bit for best HDR in the player like potplayer? or just enable OS HDR vs NV HDR? what is the best course?Don't use Win10 HDR...
As far as I know, RGB full and make sure MadVR is setup to pass thru HDR meta data to the TV

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[biship]

I have a GTX 1050 with latest NVIDIA drivers and a LG C9.
All video types work perfectly with MadVR except HDR.
I just get a black screen.

Windows 10 HDR is disabled, Nvidia is set to 8Bit RGB Full. MadVR is at default settings (except for 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60)
I've tried many combinations of HDR pass-through, bit depth, windowed/exclusive mode, present 0 to many frames in advance.
Nothing seems to fix it.

With HDR 4K, I get either no, or a few frames, showing the OSD (with times looking perfect). Audio continues fine.
Help appreciated!

[WuNgUn]

=biship;1894060
I just get a black screen

Check rendering settings...
I've seen similar issues with my 960 with windows overlay, full screen exclusive, desktop comp, etc. settings...
Try turning all this off

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[JoelArt]

I have a GTX 1050 with latest NVIDIA drivers and a LG C9.
All video types work perfectly with MadVR except HDR.
I just get a black screen.

Windows 10 HDR is disabled, Nvidia is set to 8Bit RGB Full. MadVR is at default settings (except for 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60)
I've tried many combinations of HDR pass-through, bit depth, windowed/exclusive mode, present 0 to many frames in advance.
Nothing seems to fix it.

With HDR 4K, I get either no, or a few frames, showing the OSD (with times looking perfect). Audio continues fine.
Help appreciated!


PotPlayer (madVR as rendered of course)
Windows 10 HDR is enabled (if not it will kick in once I launch a video)

My settings:

Devices > TV >
Calibration:
[x]disable calibration controls for this display.
HDR: passthrough HDR to display
[x] send HDR meta data to the display

Rendering>General Settings:
[x] delay playback start..
[x] delay playback start after seeking
[_] enable windows overlay
[_] enabled automatic fullscreen exclusive mode
[_] disable desktop composition
[x] use D3D 11 for presentation
[_] present a frame for every VSync
[_] use a separate device for presentation
[_] use a separate device for DXVA

[WuNgUn]

I know I can change the refresh rate to get smooth playback but then the mouse movement and windows will feel super sluggish and switching between refresh rates is super annoying manually, and even if I set up the player to do it automatically the whole screen goes black for a moment making jumping in and out a video to check something in a browser, eg a word or an actor/ess really jarring.

This, as far as I know, is something you gotta live with... My set up is exactly the same. When I sit down for a program, I watch the program. Jumping in and out of full screen to do other stuff on the PC just isn't a great experience. Lol
If I use 60Hz playback, then "movie" profile is disabled, as is a lot of the "expert settings" on my Samsung TV.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[WuNgUn]

So, who's running dual, mixed video cards?
I'm retiring my desktop PC with R9 280 AMD card and gonna test it in my HTPC with GTX 960...
Apparently this works with DX12

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[el Filou]

madVR won't be able to use both at the same time.

[WuNgUn]

madVR won't be able to use both at the same time.Yup... No workie
:(

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[Klaus1189]

So, who's running dual, mixed video cards?

Are you thinking of this?

I just browsed on YouTube and came across the following videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rxFxdvO3fQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY4s35uULg4

Could this method help Nvidia users to get more accurate 23 Hz timings out of the box?
And perhaps can then the madVR image processing be done in the Nvidia card and Framepacked 3D be sent over an AMD card or perhaps an Intel iGPU which lots of users also have already in their HTPC.
Just an idea, but perhaps it is helpful ...

I can not test this, since I don't have an Intel iGPU anymore to test. But you have two drivers which can bring you in trouble if it works at all. If anyone is interested here, let me know if it actually works.
Perhaps better in AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013), since it is more a driver thing and this thread is already to big to find anything, at least for me it is very dificult.