madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[sat4all]

Hi,

I saw many here claiming that nvidia improved 23.976 timimg on latest drivers, is it only true for hd resolution? because here i'm on 2160p and still getting 23.97520 with 1 frame drop/repeat every 4min.
I could fix that by using custom resolution but then i loose 12bit output.
Hope madshi can get intouch with his nvidia contact to fix this long standing silly bugs, or maybe we should be in attack at nvidia forum?

[Aleksoid1978]

Before fix was 23.970

[madjock]

@sat4all

They have done a fix of sorts, I think you will also find the custom resolution will not be 23.976 dead, the composition should be as this Nvidia fix is. For the multiple clocks to be synched there will be a deviation.

Some have had success, but I Bitstream and had at best 12 mins, unsure if others don't, there was one post saying they had 12 mins and did not see a frame drop either, and they ignore the OSD.

I am too OCD with the OSD, so rolled back to an older one myself.

[veggav]

I could fix that by using custom resolution but then i loose 12bit output.

Same situation here but you dom't have to loose 12bits.
Do this: get CRU custom resolution utility.
Write down the front and back porch that madvr is using along with sync width.

Open cru, in detailed resolution add 3840x2160 23.000 with the information provided by madvr.
Click ok.
Press up so 3840x2160 23 will be right under 3840x2160 60.
Click ok
Use restart 64 or 32 depending on your system.

After the restart you will see 3840x2160 under PC resolution.

First under hd resolution, set 3840x2160 23 RGB Full dynamic range and 12bits for 23hz.
The custom resolution will be named 24hz.
Change it.
And now go to pc resolution and change to 3840x2160 24hz.

And that's what I did here to have custom timing and 12bits.

[sat4all]

Same situation here but you dom't have to loose 12bits.
Do this: get CRU custom resolution utility.
Write down the front and back porch that madvr is using along with sync width.

Open cru, in detailed resolution add 3840x2160 23.000 with the information provided by madvr.
Click ok.
Press up so 3840x2160 23 will be right under 3840x2160 60.
Click ok
Use restart 64 or 32 depending on your system.

After the restart you will see 3840x2160 under PC resolution.

First under hd resolution, set 3840x2160 23 RGB Full dynamic range and 12bits for 23hz.
The custom resolution will be named 24hz.
Change it.
And now go to pc resolution and change to 3840x2160 24hz.

And that's what I did here to have custom timing and 12bits.

Thanks, i will give it a try.
Edit: Thanks again, it worked.

[pirlouy]

Do this: get CRU custom resolution utility.
Careful with this. I use it myself. I'm able to create custom resolution for 1080p23 with CRU, named 23.976Hz. But nVidia see a 23,976Hz resolution and so use its own timings for this frequency (the new 23,976 which results in frame repeat every 11-12 minutes). So despite custom resolution in CRU, nVidia ignores EDID and choose by itself the timing.
If you really want a custom resolution, you are stuck with nVidia unstable custom resolution tool.
But YMMV with this awkward behaviour.

[veggav]

Careful with this. I use it myself. I'm able to create custom resolution for 1080p23 with CRU, named 23.976Hz.

Do you actually type 23.976 in the refresh rate section? Because I don't see any place to name resolutions on CRU.

And I stand by the method, the results I get are identical to Madvr custom timings without using CRU.

The only problem I have here is that some custom timings made by madvr which are claimed by the software as "no dropped frames expected" still give me 1 frame drop repeated per 4 or 6 hours or something.

[Asmodian]

Did you watch it for an infinite amount of time? You need to let madVR measure for an infinite amount of time and let it run for an infinite amount of time, at least to have the predictions be perfect. ;)

4-6 hours is very good but if you let madVR measure for an entire movie the predictions do get a better.

[veggav]

4-6 hours is very good but if you let madVR measure for an entire movie the predictions do get a better.

Not yet, but I have watched very long movies and I'm trying to watch The Sopranos in it's entirely. So, a lot of content.

But I'm back with version 0.9.04 because of Jriver UHD BD subtitles situation, so I'm also stuck with this version not measuring anymore.

I think I'll update to 0.9.14 for the weekend while using MPC-HC and have it to measure again my display.
Actually, is it possible to have two installations of Madvr on the same pc?

[ryrynz]

Did you watch it for an infinite amount of time?

I wish madshi had an infinite amount of time, I want more advanced upscalers and post processing options xD

[khanmein]

The issue of FSE on MPC-HC is not fixed yet in 398.82!

[nevcairiel]

FSE has practically been discontinued in Windows 10. Its being emulated by the OS instead of being "real". It would be best to just give it up in favor of Independent/Direct Flip modes.

[mclingo]

i'm super happy with the current version of MADVR, anything added at this point is just gravy, just hoping AMD can fix my two main driver bugs, blown reds on all 23,976 SDR material and HDR toggle no longer triggering from MADVR, on AMD drivers after 18.3.4 - I have workarounds though, everything else works a treat.

[foozoor]

FSE has practically been discontinued in Windows 10. Its being emulated by the OS instead of being "real". It would be best to just give it up in favor of Independent/Direct Flip modes.
WTF! People are still using FSE in 2018! Yes, it's time to evolve a bit.

[brazen1]

Probably be rather difficult to use 3D frame packed without FSE no? HDR as well, no? Without FSE enabled in madVR, the mode doesn't switch for me.

[SamuriHL]

That's not universally true. I did 3D in windowed mode and now do HDR in windowed mode on Windows 10. There's not a lot of consistency about what works for some and not for others unfortunately.

[nevcairiel]

Probably be rather difficult to use 3D frame packed without FSE no? HDR as well, no? Without FSE enabled in madVR, the mode doesn't switch for me.

3D and HDR both work in Windowed mode. FSE is no fundamental requirement for basically anything anymore on Windows 10, since Independent Flip gives the application almost full control of whats being rendered.
Of course this is theoretical, that is not to say that madVR may need some more work to fully adapt to what is required to handle all this.

[huhn]

which nvidia just broke.

nothing wrong with adding newer better presenation mode but that doesn't change that FSE is and will still be required in the near future even newer games are not made with dx 11 or directx at all. just have a look at older unity engine games which doesn't support FSE and the major problems because of this...

and the major advantage of FSE which is now generally gone in windows 10 was that nothing was displayed in from of it. ohh your disk is "nearly" full let's tell you even through this is no problem at all on top of a FSE surface.

windows 10 is a regression for HTPC mostly for intantionally breaking FSE.

[iSeries]

FSE absolutely works better for me on Win10 1803. However, windowed worked better for me on Win10 1709.

Windowed for me on 1803, the reported refresh rate in MadVR keeps jumping around. With FSE, it's rock solid. (Nvidia 1050ti)

[SamuriHL]

I've yet to try FSE on 1803 with HDR. I'm still getting my feet wet in the UHD world. The limited amount of titles I've played so far all seem to work fine in Windowed mode but i'm driving it at 8bit not 12. I've not had time yet to sit down and really play with madvr. I'm kind of in the same boat as jmone waiting for the next version that hopefully contains a fix for subtitle rendering. Right now I'm still using the last version that worked which is a fair bit behind. Has anyone played with the latest nVidia driver yet? I've not had time to install it and see what it breaks, er, I mean, fixes this time. LOL

[khanmein]

FSE has practically been discontinued in Windows 10. Its being emulated by the OS instead of being "real". It would be best to just give it up in favor of Independent/Direct Flip modes.

Alright, noted. :thanks:

[foxyshadis]

which nvidia just broke.

nothing wrong with adding newer better presenation mode but that doesn't change that FSE is and will still be required in the near future even newer games are not made with dx 11 or directx at all. just have a look at older unity engine games which doesn't support FSE and the major problems because of this...

and the major advantage of FSE which is now generally gone in windows 10 was that nothing was displayed in from of it. ohh your disk is "nearly" full let's tell you even through this is no problem at all on top of a FSE surface.

windows 10 is a regression for HTPC mostly for intantionally breaking FSE.

That's largely because of the fact that windowed fullscreen is a better experience in virtually every scenario. I agree with you, I'm a fan of isolation, but when a mass of gamers speaks (and VERY loudly speaks) that they want the benefits of windowed fullscreen that looks like exclusive, then the driver writers are going to provide it for them. At this point, they've been working within WFS to implement most of the benefits of FSE, anyway, so we're starting to reap that without being a slave to crappy monitor scaling too.

[QBhd]

FSE absolutely works better for me on Win10 1803. However, windowed worked better for me on Win10 1709.

Windowed for me on 1803, the reported refresh rate in MadVR keeps jumping around. With FSE, it's rock solid. (Nvidia 1050ti)

The exact same for me. 1803 was a big step backwards.

QB

[huhn]

That's largely because of the fact that windowed fullscreen is a better experience in virtually every scenario. I agree with you, I'm a fan of isolation, but when a mass of gamers speaks (and VERY loudly speaks) that they want the benefits of windowed fullscreen that looks like exclusive, then the driver writers are going to provide it for them. At this point, they've been working within WFS to implement most of the benefits of FSE, anyway, so we're starting to reap that without being a slave to crappy monitor scaling too.


when did gamer every cry about it? it was a choice in the past now it isn't really one anymore. some games worked a lot better with FSE and some worked bad with it.

[tony359]

Hi there,
I have a few minor issues since I've updated to 1803 and to the latest madVR 0.92.14


1. madVR does not move a scope picture at the bottom of the screen anymore. I have "automatically detect hard coded black bars" and "always shift the image" enabled.

(edit: I remembered having the same issue before and searched the forum: it does not work with DXVA native! Thanks!)


2. When I switch from exclusive to windowed mode, there is a long delay (usually it was almost instantaneous, only the first time after switching on the set it would take a few seconds). But mostly, when the picture reappears, it's frozen -the audio never stops - and eventually restarts in sync after 4-5 seconds.

I have uninstalled and reinstalled madVR and the player (MPC-HC) to no avail.

Any suggestions?
madVR is definitely working, I have a 3D lut file which is visibly enabled and if I change other parameters, I can see the picture changing.

Thank you!

[mclingo]

no FSE, no 3D or HDR for me on AMD CARD WIN 10 1709 - although...I havent tested this for a while, perhaps latest AMD drivers which no longer trigger HDR might actually work in window mode with the new drivers, i hadnt though of though, Ill test this later tonight.

[Weirdo]

When I switch from exclusive to windowed mode, there is a long delay (usually it was almost instantaneous, only the first time after switching on the set it would take a few seconds). But mostly, when the picture reappears, it's frozen -the audio never stops - and eventually restarts in sync after 4-5 seconds. I have uninstalled and reinstalled madVR and the player (MPC-HC) to no avail.
Must be a few weeks (or months) that I that have (almost) the same problem that is, when switching from normal to exclusive mode too. Also, the syncing takes place after 10 seconds (old video card). I guess it's caused by a recent Windows update.

Some say "oh don't use FSE in W10" but exactly what is the alternative? Do OS notifications stop automatically when in full-screen mode or there's always the risk of interruptions?

[thighhighs]

You have all Windows 10 focus assist (https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-focus-assist-reduce-distractions-windows-10-april-2018-update) features disabled? It fix "frozen video" for me.

[tony359]

must be Windows 1803 as my main PC is doing exactly the same and I have recently updated to 1803.

thighhighs, on my main PC the focus assist feature is already disabled but I experience the same delay - thanks for your input though.

[jaytrinitron]

Hello, sorry if I posted this in the wrong place as it is only tangentially linked to madvr, but this does relate to @madshi. I was wondering whether it is possible to somehow "hook" vapoursynth into mpc-hc or madvr or something, similar to how ffdshow "hooks" avisynth scripts into mpc-hc. I stumbled across this thread after some quick googling: https://github.com/vapoursynth/vapoursynth/issues/305

Am I to take this thread to mean somehow vapoursynth scripts can be implemented into mpc-hc/madvr? Can anyone shed some light on this?

[huhn]

is/was a planned feature that is not yet released.
his dev build clearly can do it as you can see.

[jaytrinitron]

is/was a planned feature that is not yet released.
his dev build clearly can do it as you can see.

I see, so this was over a dev build... I hope it is still due for release then. It would be an incredibly helpful feature, given how useful vapoursynth is.

[toniash]

It's integrated in PotPlayer :)

[jaytrinitron]

It's integrated in PotPlayer :)

Is it really? Interesting. Does Potplayer support directshow filters like LAV filters, madVR, xysubfilter, etc.?

[sauma144]

Yes and yes. :)
There are some packs/bundles/installers with madVR/AviSynth+/Vapoursynth presets available too.

[jaytrinitron]

Yes and yes. :)
There are some packs/bundles/installers with madVR/AviSynth+/Vapoursynth presets available too.

Wow! Thanks for the tip, do you have any links?

[sauma144]

I sent you a private message. ;)

[el Filou]

I was watching some comedy HDTV broadcast when I noticed moiré on the background, so for reference if that is of interest to some people, here is what can happen when you (let the renderer/display try to) deinterlace 25PsF material instead of weaving the fields as should be done.
Sadly, neither my NVIDIA or madVR can detect and ivtc a 2:2 cadence in 50i. :(

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GRWkYknjt53eANFCUJzg8mxrh-oF2BFI

Note that this is HD so moiré/aliasing is the 'only' artifact you'll see, but if it was SD you'd have NVIDIA suboptimal deinterlacing artifacts in addition to it, which is even worse. (I got the case on the recent broadcast of Stewart Lee's show on BBC, which I can receive only in SD)

PS: before anyone accuses NVIDIA's deinterlacing to be the cause of this, know that I also tested YADIF and it acts exactly the same.

[huhn]

did you try film mode in madVR?

[el Filou]

Yes of course that's what I use to fix this (using a keyboard shortcut), but what I meant is that's not really user-friendly, to have to manually try film mode with each different material you watch.
Is 2:2 cadence really that difficult to detect algorithmically? I don't get why all ivtc'ers can detect 3:2 just fine but not 2:2. :confused:

[huhn]

what are you talking about?

the ivtc in madVr detects it fine so madVr support 2:2 cadance.
there is no automatic detection and hardware deinterlancer can't do it anyway.

where does it detect 2:3 but not 2:2?

[el Filou]

I think I'm confused so I'll rephrase my question: is there any way with madVR - using DXVA if needed - to dynamically detect and recover the original 25p encoded in 50i?

You say "there is no automatic detection and hardware deinterlancer can't do it anyway" but this NVIDIA page says even GPUs from 10 years ago could do it: http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_8400_features.html

Inverse Telecine (3:2 & 2:2 Pulldown Correction):
Recovers original film images from films-converted-to-video, providing more accurate movie playback and superior picture quality.

Bad Edit Correction:
When videos are edited after they have been converted from 24 to 25 or 30 frames, the edits can disrupt the normal 3:2 or 2:2 pulldown cadence. PureVideo uses advanced processing techniques to detect poor edits, recover the original content, and display perfect picture detail frame after frame for smooth, natural looking video.

[huhn]

when you give it 30 frames 60 fields it will output 60 frames which and without IVTC which was optional in the past not sure if it des anything anymore. while it looks like nvidia can field match it can't decimate so the quality is better but the judder is still there.

[el Filou]

Okay but I'm only interested in PAL, not NTSC, so I would be happy with just automatic 2:2 detection that gives back 25p. (Edit: or would it give back 50p with successive identical frames? I need to test this further...)
Originally I thought it was due to the way madVR called the DXVA deinterlacer that automatic 2:2 pulldown detection wasn't working but now I've tested with default EVR and DXVA2 Native and NVIDIA can't detect it either, so I guess it's the GPU's fault again. :sly:
Thanks for the explanation.

[huhn]

i know for sure that field matching worked in the past but yes the output would be 50p with a 2:2 frame cadence.

something broke with win 10. and never forget when testing the nvidia hardware deinterlancer needs about 5 frames before it works properly.

[nevcairiel]

The GPU should be capable of detecting that, but it won't actually decimate down to 25p, it'll just not apply video-mode deinterlacing, which might result in lowered quality otherwise.

[Anima123]

Is there a way to force decimation of progressive 59.94 fps video? When I apply film mode on this kind of videos, madVR always detect it as cadence 2:2, and no decimation on it.

[huhn]

can you make screenshoot of the OSD?

[PirateIce]

Just wanted to confirm a fix for FSE on windows 10 1803, I was having delays of like 2-4 seconds before playback started when going to FSE, but it was just focus assist! I had it off but forgot it was set to turn on for "fullscreen games"

after disabling that windowed and FSE are both working fully for me on windows 10 1803 and nvidia driver 398.36
(I also set "disable fullscreen optimizations" on the exe for my player, jriver mc24, to force regular FSE but it seems to work about the same either way)

[jaytrinitron]

Turns out PotPlayer only supports 8 bit processing in the video filters, and the devs have no plans to implement 10 bit... I guess my best bet is hoping that the dev build mentioned here (https://github.com/vapoursynth/vapoursynth/issues/305) gets released. Does anyone know if this vapoursynth feature is still in the works?