madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[MistahBonzai]

So there definitely is some change in behaviour from 0.87.4, which breaks still images for me.

I used these settings:
(1) enable "delay playback start until render queue is full"
(2) disable "enable smooth motion frame rate conversion"

Otherwise still images don´t work at all.

Image display works fine for me with "enable smooth motion frame rate conversion" not selected. Otherwise I get a black 'image' and I've not found a way to deactivate it other than close madVR.

You seem to know your way around utilizing madVR as an image viewer... I love the imagining process options that it opens up :-) So..is there a simple way of incrementing through images in a folder with a simple key push or click? I've googled and keep coming up empty...

[Ceremony]

Uuuh updates! Always nice! Thanks for new features and fixed!

Also, since my machine can probably handle it: Are there any special requirements (additional software, configuration) to use NEEDI3 for chroma or luma upsampling/doubling, as I get either all black luma/chroma channels or a frozen luma channel... Or lots of green.

[Shiandow]

Uuuh updates! Always nice! Thanks for new features and fixed!

Also, since my machine can probably handle it: Are there any special requirements (additional software, configuration) to use NEEDI3 for chroma or luma upsampling/doubling, as I get either all black luma/chroma channels or a frozen luma channel... Or lots of green.

Are you perhaps using an Nvidia GPU? In that case you need to downgrade to the 327.23 driver, in the newer ones OpenCL doesn't work for some reason.

[pirlouy]

pirlouy
I use it as a base on 1600x1200@100mhz
Ok. You'll see a lot of people don't use NNEDI3 chroma upscaling because GPU is needed for other tasks. At least, I would not force Smooth Motion Rate always enable. The default setting is the recommended one.

Your 2nd screenshot is surprising, it looks like NNEDI3 is not used (5.12ms for 4x NNEDI3 256 seems unlikely)

[Ceremony]

Are you perhaps using an Nvidia GPU? In that case you need to downgrade to the 327.23 driver, in the newer ones OpenCL doesn't work for some reason.awesome nvidia... Guess I'll downgrade then

[madshi]

Indeed, it is related to smooth motion. If I disable it, still images at least show again. However, if I let the still image on for a couple of seconds, it suddenly disappears and I have a black screen again. It seems madVR 0.87.5 for some reason empties the queues after a couple of seconds, even after both keep being filled with 0.87.4.
Older madVR versions kept showing the last video frame, even after playback stopped. This is probably what you're seeing with v0.87.4. Beginning with v0.87.5 madVR now clears the video view when playback is stopped. That's probably why the screen goes black for you. This is "as intended". I understand that it's not ideal for image viewing, but then, in stopped state none of the changes you do in the madVR settings have an effect, anymore. Basically the last frame is "frozen". If you resize the media player, the frame gets stretched/distorted. So what v0.87.4 (and older) did was really not nice.

Thanks for the new build but your workaround for FSE mode in Windows 8 doesn't work for me. It still swiths to 23.976Hz instead of 24.000Hz. The only difference I can see is when my screen is set to 60.000Hz and when I go in fullscreen, for a few seconds madVR tells my screen is in 0.000Hz and I have a lot of stutters. After a few seconds, everything works fine but it's set at 23.976Hz.

I'm under Windows 8 Pro 64 bits and I have a Geforce GTX660 327.23
Strange. It works for me in Windows 8 x64 with AMD and Intel, and another user already reported that it works for him in Windows 8 with an NVidia GPU. Anyway, can you please post a debug log where you get an incorrect refresh rate with madVR? Please let playback run for as long as necessary, until the refresh rate indicator in the debug OSD shows a first measurement. Then stop the media player and zip&upload the log somewhere. Thanks.

[Mangix]

I'm noticing something strange on a file that I'm playing - if i run it at 60Hz (SM on) then render times are around 9ms. If I on the other hand run it at 24Hz (SM off) then render times shoot up to 19ms. Any idea why?

[Werewolfy]

Strange. It works for me in Windows 8 x64 with AMD and Intel, and another user already reported that it works for him in Windows 8 with an NVidia GPU. Anyway, can you please post a debug log where you get an incorrect refresh rate with madVR? Please let playback run for as long as necessary, until the refresh rate indicator in the debug OSD shows a first measurement. Then stop the media player and zip&upload the log somewhere. Thanks.

Of course, here the debug log : https://www.mediafire.com/?6vqi2i5e3ng0ya7

[madshi]

I'm noticing something strange on a file that I'm playing - if i run it at 60Hz (SM on) then render times are around 9ms. If I on the other hand run it at 24Hz (SM off) then render times shoot up to 19ms. Any idea why?
Maybe your GPU clocks down when doing 24p playback?

[madshi]

Of course, here the debug log : https://www.mediafire.com/?6vqi2i5e3ng0ya7
Hmmm... According to the log, my hooks are installed correctly, but they do are not called somehow. Weird. It seems you've configured madVR to switch the display mode in the moment when you go fullscreen? What happens if you switch at the start of playback? Does that change anything? Probably not, just wondering...

[MistahBonzai]

Older madVR versions kept showing the last video frame, even after playback stopped. This is probably what you're seeing with v0.87.4. Beginning with v0.87.5 madVR now clears the video view when playback is stopped. That's probably why the screen goes black for you. This is "as intended". I understand that it's not ideal for image viewing, but then, in stopped state none of the changes you do in the madVR settings have an effect, anymore. Basically the last frame is "frozen". If you resize the media player, the frame gets stretched/distorted. So what v0.87.4 (and older) did was really not nice.

As noted earlier I can display an image (drag/drop into MPC-HC) using madVR with SM-FRC disabled via FSE. I can then minimize/maximize it repeatedly without loosing the image. The display does seem to briefly 'hitch' when maximizing. I assumed that was somehow due to FSE. I've captured a screen crop (http://www.mediafire.com/view/au71n6a96tog6zd/Image4.png) with the status info.

Win7 (sp1) 64-bit.
i7-3770 64-bit.
HD-7850.
MPC-HC 1.7.3.88.
LAV 0.61.0.0.
madVR v0.87.5.
XySubFilter 3.1.0.682.
Sony KDL 40W3000 (1080P/59.976)

[SamuriHL]

madVR v0.87.6 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* fixed: #090: FSE mode switched to 23Hz instead of 24Hz in Windows 8
* fixed: #127: crash when jumping to next video file on secondary monitor
* fixed: #173: overlay: exiting multiple windows in same order -> black screen
* madTPG now forces ordered dither, but you can en/disable colored & dynamic
* added support for new subtitle API ISubRenderConsumer2::Clear()
To be honest, I hadn't planned to release a new official build so quickly, but I've fixed two important bugs (one crash, one overlay related) and found one very important improvement. So I thought it would be worth a new build. The improvement is that FSE mode should hopefully work with the correct refresh rates now even in Windows 8 and 8.1. So you can finally use 23.976Hz, 24.000Hz, 59.940Hz and 60.000Hz again, and madVR should happily switch to exactly the refresh rate you want. At least it seems to work on my AMD GPU, while all older builds didn't. I think it should work for NVidia and Intel, too.

(Of course the refresh rate problem was - and still is - a serious bug in Windows 8. I've just hacked my way around it now.)

Oh thank you thank you for the refresh fix for 8.1. Watch...now that you've worked around it, the stupid update 1 coming out in a month will break it again. :devil:

[Kalanoch]

With the new builds (0.87.5 and 0.87.6), mpc-hc 1.7.3 (and 1.7.1) crashes immediately upon opening about 90% of the numerous video files I've tested it with. Sometimes it pops ups a "please wait a moment" dialog box (the madVR crash reporter I think, but it doesn't get a chance to finish) right before crashing. There doesn't appear to be any immediately noticeable pattern as to why some videos work but the vast majority do not. Some files will open and play fine once, but then closing and opening a second time results in a crash. Some will always work. At first I thought it was a xy-subfilter problem, but it will crash even on files that have no subtitles. If I revert back to 0.87.4, all of the problems go away.

Running Windows 7, nVidia GTX 670 with 327.23 drivers.

Edit: This is definitely an issue with windowed overlay. Disabling windowed overlay makes the new builds work correctly without crashing, but since my present times are terrible and I sometimes get frame drops if I don't use windowed overlay, that is not a workaround that I can use.

[seiyafan]

More results:

http://s9.postimg.org/nbnz8dnb1/madvr5.png

[iSunrise]

Older madVR versions kept showing the last video frame, even after playback stopped. This is probably what you're seeing with v0.87.4. Beginning with v0.87.5 madVR now clears the video view when playback is stopped. That's probably why the screen goes black for you. This is "as intended". I understand that it's not ideal for image viewing, but then, in stopped state none of the changes you do in the madVR settings have an effect, anymore. Basically the last frame is "frozen". If you resize the media player, the frame gets stretched/distorted. So what v0.87.4 (and older) did was really not nice.
Yes, I´ve read up on that when you posted 0.87.5, didn´t realize that it would effect still images, though, so thanks for the clarification. That would also explain why pausing the player doesn´t work, because the playback already stops instantly after I opened the image for madVR to display it.

I´ve also found the possible cause of why I cannot display the TIF still image in madVR, while other images like PNG generally seem to work. It seems to be related to PotPlayer. I even did a complete re-install to the current version to be sure. MPC-HC works just fine. For some strange reason PotPlayer clears the screen (the last frame shown), while MPC-HC doesn´t. Now what would you say is the "correct" behaviour? Shouldn´t playback stop clear the screen? Because in that case, PotPlayer would behave correctly, while MPC-HC doesn´t.

As noted earlier I can display an image (drag/drop into MPC-HC) using madVR with SM-FRC disabled via FSE....
Found out that the issues I have are PotPlayer-related. MPC-HC works just fine, even without enabling the delay playback start setting.

...You seem to know your way around utilizing madVR as an image viewer... I love the imagining process options that it opens up :-) So..is there a simple way of incrementing through images in a folder with a simple key push or click? I've googled and keep coming up empty...
Well, I mainly use it for testing purposes, in the case of madVR gaining new features like dithering, still images can be quite helpful in some cases.

Now, what you want to do is entirely up to the media player itself. If the media player supports directly skipping to the next file in the current directory, madVR will display it.

MPC-HC seems to support what you want, you can use PgUp/PgDn for that, while PotPlayer seems to require you to load the files into the playlist directly, before you can browse through them.

EDIT: Correction after double-checking.

[Shiandow]

Now, what you want to do is entirely up to the media player itself. If the media player supports directly skipping to the next file in the current directory, madVR will display it. However, neither MPC-HC nor PotPlayer seem to support that. The only thing you can do right now is to add them to a playlist and then (in the case of PotPlayer) press PgUp/PgDn to browse through them.

Both PotPlayer and MPC-HC support loading the next file with PgUp/PgDn.

[andybkma]

Noob question time: Since we are on the subject of dithering with the recent mVR build, I noticed that LAV Video also has two dithering options, Ordered & Random with Random being the default. Since it seems that "Ordered Dithering" is new and is now the default option for mVR should we change LAV also to Ordered or leave it at the default of Random? Cheers

[iSunrise]

Both PotPlayer and MPC-HC support loading the next file with PgUp/PgDn.
Are you sure? Because after re-testing both players, there definitely seems to be a difference of functionality. MPC-HC can directly browse through the directory with PgUp/PgDn, while PotPlayer can only do that by adding the files from a directory to the playlist.

I´ve also edited my previous post.

[cyberbeing]

You seem to know your way around utilizing madVR as an image viewer... I love the imagining process options that it opens up :-) So..is there a simple way of incrementing through images in a folder with a simple key push or click? I've googled and keep coming up empty...
Well, I mainly use it for testing purposes, in the case of madVR gaining new features like dithering, still images can be quite helpful in some cases.

Now, what you want to do is entirely up to the media player itself. If the media player supports directly skipping to the next file in the current directory, madVR will display it. However, neither MPC-HC nor PotPlayer seem to support that. The only thing you can do right now is to add them to a playlist and then (in the case of PotPlayer) press PgUp/PgDn to browse through them.

Zoom Player supports incrementing though images a folder. It also has a built-in file browser OSD. You may need to set "On Playlist Complete" to Auto-Rewind to prevent it from stopping playback and closing madVR, for the images to be displayed though.

it seems only MPC-HC can directly browse through the directory with PgUp/PgDn
This doesn't work for me with Images, only Videos.

[Shiandow]

Are you sure? There definitely seems to be a difference of functionality. Because after re-testing both players, it seems only MPC-HC can directly browse through the directory with PgUp/PgDn, while PotPlayer can only do that by adding the files from a directory to the playlist.

PotPlayer can do it as well, although for some reason it isn't the default setting. You need to go to Preferences->Playback and then enable "load previous/next item in play folder".

[iSunrise]

This doesn't work for me with Images, only Videos.
You´re right, jesus what a mess.

PotPlayer can do it as well, although for some reason it isn't the default setting. You need to go to Preferences->Playback and then enable "load previous/next item in play folder".
Thanks a lot. However, that only seems to work for videos, too, like in the case of MPC-HC. Like cyberbeing said, it seems only Zoom Player can currently do both.

[MistahBonzai]

MPC-HC seems to support what you want, you can use PgUp/PgDn for that, while PotPlayer seems to require you to load the files into the playlist directly, before you can browse through them.

I had already tried various key combinations in a vein attempt to get MPC-HC to jump to another image in the chosen folder. Pg Up/Pg Down displays the status message that either the 1st file in the folder or the last file in the folder is already loaded while the image stays put. I'm looking at play list possibilities right now but don't see how to configure multiple files... Keep me in mind if you should come across answers. And Yeah, the image display feature provides a superior means of monitoring adjustment effects over poking around in a video. That and I'm really liking how I can modify the images with the various filters :-)

Edit: I see you folks have been busy replying while I've been typing :-) I'll take a look at this "Zoom Player" thing... Thanks :) a bit later..$20 bucks! I'm sure it's worth it if ya need it but I haven't watched a movie in years. No thanks, I'll look elsewhere....

[secvensor]

Probably it is necessary fo me to reinstall OS.

[JonnyRedHed]

Actually I am experiencing an issue, a new one. As I watch the video full screen, at some random point the screen just goes black and the video continues to play as I can still hear the audio. If I click the screen it pauses and can restart if clicked again. But the screen remains black. I do not get a madvr crash reporter window, nor a zoom player crash window. So I have to ctrl+alt+del and go to task manager and close zplayer process.

The odd time the screen has gone white, not black.

It can happen within seconds of first playback, or 30 mins or more. The first time only occured after a few hours of viewing. A reboot does'nt seem to fix the issue.

using v0.87.6 and zoom player 8.7 b33

[MistahBonzai]

Probably it is necessary fo me to reinstall OS.
Have you tried to run "restore default settings.bat" in your MadVR folder as administrator?


If not then do it now.
If this doesn't appear to reset the madVR settings then run "uninstall.bat" as administrator.
Then delete the contents of your MadVR folder.
Then download madVr 87.6 (http://madshi.net/madVR.zip) and copy the contents to your old MadVR folder.
Then run "install.bat" located in that folder (as administrator).
Then configure madVR with very Conservative settings.
Load a simple (easy to run) video file (like 720p/23.976 or 24fps.
Better now? Congratulations!
No? - time to reload:devil:

[James Freeman]

madshi,
Thank You !!


0.87.6
* madTPG now forces ordered dither, but you can en/disable colored & dynamic

0.87.5
* madTPG now always uses monochromatic ordered dithering
Something changed? Whats the difference?

[QBhd]

It's my understanding - and I might be wrong here - that if you are not actually utilizing an external calibration file (yCMS or 3DLUT) you don't "disable the GPU gamma ramps" - I have done extensive display level correction utilizing test patterns but have not used yCMS or 3DLUT.

Under "Color & Gamma" I don't "enable gamma processing" because I hadn't selected "disable the GPU gamma ramps" under "Calibration".

It seems to me that with both selected you may well be working one against the other..no?

I just wanted to say thanks... I am not sure when I started to disable GPU gamma ramps or where I even read that it might be a good idea... but I just watched a bunch of shows tonight and I think this solved my gamma woes. I did decide on setting my calibration for the TV to pure power curve of 2.5 (since that is what the EDID said the TV uses) and then set gamma correction to pure power curve of 2.35... and it's much more natural looking then leaving both options disabled... so I am guessing that the EDID is correct.

Thanks again

QB

[MistahBonzai]

I am not sure when I started to disable GPU gamma ramps or where I even read that it might be a good idea... Thanks again
QB

UR quite welcome :) I, like you, did the same thing. Although lotsa stuff has been written in the various 'expert guides' I had a hard time figuring it out. At one time I had them both selected - I could decrease one and increase the other and they operated backwards from what I expected :confused:

My problem stemmed from what I viewed as ambiguous wording pertaining to what was considered 'calibrated'. In the end I figured if I hadn't actually changed the files then I didn't want to disable them.

[Asmodian]

I see you folks have been busy replying while I've been typing :-) I'll take a look at this "Zoom Player" thing... Thanks :) a bit later..$20 bucks! I'm sure it's worth it if ya need it but I haven't watched a movie in years. No thanks, I'll look elsewhere....

There is a Zoom Player Free edition, does it not include this feature?

[secvensor]

MistahBonzai
variant 9

[madshi]

Oh thank you thank you for the refresh fix for 8.1. Watch...now that you've worked around it, the stupid update 1 coming out in a month will break it again. :devil:
I hope not! So does my workaround work for you?

With the new builds (0.87.5 and 0.87.6), mpc-hc 1.7.3 (and 1.7.1) crashes immediately upon opening about 90% of the numerous video files I've tested it with. Sometimes it pops ups a "please wait a moment" dialog box (the madVR crash reporter I think, but it doesn't get a chance to finish) right before crashing. There doesn't appear to be any immediately noticeable pattern as to why some videos work but the vast majority do not. Some files will open and play fine once, but then closing and opening a second time results in a crash. Some will always work. At first I thought it was a xy-subfilter problem, but it will crash even on files that have no subtitles. If I revert back to 0.87.4, all of the problems go away.

Running Windows 7, nVidia GTX 670 with 327.23 drivers.

Edit: This is definitely an issue with windowed overlay. Disabling windowed overlay makes the new builds work correctly without crashing, but since my present times are terrible and I sometimes get frame drops if I don't use windowed overlay, that is not a workaround that I can use.
Oh man, that's bad. I think this is probably cause by the cosmetical improvements I made in 0.87.5. That seems to work fine for most users, but seemingly it crashes on your PC. Don't know why, though.

How do those crashes look like? Does MPC-HC automatically disappear without any trace left? Or is there still some sort of crash complaint window or something? And even if you wait a couple of seconds the madVR crash assistant doesn't appear?

Anyway, here's a test build:

http://madshi.net/madVRoverlayFix.rar

Does it fix the problem for you? If so, please also try resizing the window multiple times, just to make sure that's stable for you, too.

More results: [...]
Interesting - thanks!

FWIW, I think it's probably not necessary to split "720 -> 1080p" and "720 -> 1440p", because both are doing 1x luma doubling. In the same way I think "1080 -> 1440p" will perform almost identical to "1080 -> 4K", because again it's only 1x luma doubling in both cases. However, if you do "720 -> 4K" with luma quadrupling, that would slow things down even more.

When using NNEDI3 luma doubling/quadrupling, the deciding factors for performance are only source resolution and neurons. The target resolution doesn't matter so much cause Bicubic up/downscaling is so cheap in comparison to NNEDI3. So basically you could do colums like "SD luma doubling", "SD luma quadrupling", "720p luma doubling", "720p luma quadrupling" and "1080p luma doubling". That would be quite interesting. I think those 5 columns would give us a rough performance idea about every possible scenario.

Of course for luma quadrupling it's hard to decide how many neurons to use for doubling and how many for quadrupling. The neurons for doubling are defnitely more important than those for quadrupling. But then doubling/quadrupling with 128/64 might look better than 256/16 - and perform faster, too. So I guess I would suggest something like 16/16, 32/16, 64/16, 128/32, 256/32.

Noob question time: Since we are on the subject of dithering with the recent mVR build, I noticed that LAV Video also has two dithering options, Ordered & Random with Random being the default. Since it seems that "Ordered Dithering" is new and is now the default option for mVR should we change LAV also to Ordered or leave it at the default of Random? Cheers
That would be a question for nevcairiel. He already said that some users didn't like ordered dithering because the dither pattern matched their display's internal dithering pattern. So that's why he changed the default to random dithering. However, I'm not sure which kind of dithering pattern LAV uses. Maybe with a better dithering pattern and with a dynamically changing dithering pattern on top of that ordered dithering could be default in LAV again, too. But I don't know if nevcairiel has any fun/time to work on dithering. After all it's not needed when using madVR, anyway. But really, that's for him to decide...

Something changed? Whats the difference?
Graeme suggested that colored dithering might actually be good for calibration, or maybe not. So I decided to let the user decide whether to use colored or monochromatic dithering in madTPG.

[nevcairiel]

That would be a question for nevcairiel. He already said that some users didn't like ordered dithering because the dither pattern matched their display's internal dithering pattern. So that's why he changed the default to random dithering. However, I'm not sure which kind of dithering pattern LAV uses. Maybe with a better dithering pattern and with a dynamically changing dithering pattern on top of that ordered dithering could be default in LAV again, too. But I don't know if nevcairiel has any fun/time to work on dithering. After all it's not needed when using madVR, anyway. But really, that's for him to decide...

LAV uses a default 8x8 bayer matrix with ordered dithering.
The biggest problem was in YUV->RGB conversion, because I used the same matrix for all three channels, it resulted in the pattern to be amplified - but I fixed that by shifting the pattern between channels now, and the amplified pattern effect went away (and random uses different random sources for all channels anyway)

I don't consider random dithering in LAV any worse then ordered dithering. When looking at the night&day difference between random and ordered in madVR (when targeting lower bitdepth), I wondered for a second if random dithering wasn't implemented slightly incorrectly that made it too strong.

In any case, since LAV will never have to do any dithering when you use it with madVR, this point is probably rather unimportant for this thread.

[huhn]

I just wanted to say thanks... I am not sure when I started to disable GPU gamma ramps or where I even read that it might be a good idea... but I just watched a bunch of shows tonight and I think this solved my gamma woes. I did decide on setting my calibration for the TV to pure power curve of 2.5 (since that is what the EDID said the TV uses) and then set gamma correction to pure power curve of 2.35... and it's much more natural looking then leaving both options disabled... so I am guessing that the EDID is correct.

Thanks again

QB

disabling the gpu gamma ramps simply disables, all calibrations so a 3d lut is not double changed. this should have an effect if you don't use a calibration.

if a calibrated screen is really important to you, you may should think about getting a colorimeter.

if you say madvr your gamma of you screen is 2.50 and then process gamma to 2.35 you should get a gamma of 2.35 if it's true that your display is gamma 2.5. your screen should be brighter now.

the best gamma should be choice n on your lightning condition in your room. typical 2.4 is what you want.
UR quite welcome :) I, like you, did the same thing. Although lotsa stuff has been written in the various 'expert guides' I had a hard time figuring it out. At one time I had them both selected - I could decrease one and increase the other and they operated backwards from what I expected :confused:

My problem stemmed from what I viewed as ambiguous wording pertaining to what was considered 'calibrated'. In the end I figured if I hadn't actually changed the files then I didn't want to disable them.

see above setting gamma in "calibration" should't have an effect without "color & gamma" settings.

[seiyafan]

Thanks madshi! I overestimated the downscaling time that's why I separated the 720s into two columns, thanks for pointing it out.

Now, would someone lend me your 4k project for a week for testing? :devil: :D

[JonnyRedHed]

I'm still getting a black screen every now and again which all but freezes zoom player. No crash reporter pops up. Apart from this little issue all is good.

[seiyafan]

I am still not sure about how doubling/quadrupling works in one area. Suppose if I play a 480 video on 1440 monitor with only doubling enabled, it would use doubling to do 480 to 960 first, then upscaling from 960 to 1440?
And if quadrupling is enabled, it would go from 480 to 1960 then downscale to 1440? If that's the case when does it ever use doubling if quadrupling is enabled?

[nevcairiel]

I am still not sure about how doubling/quadrupling works in one area. Suppose if I play a 480 video on 1440 monitor with only doubling enabled, it would use doubling to do 480 to 960 first, then upscaling from 960 to 1440?
And if quadrupling is enabled, it would go from 480 to 1960 then downscale to 1440? If that's the case when does it ever use doubling if quadrupling is enabled?

You can configure scale factors when which should be used.
When you play 480 at 1440, you can tell it to quadruple, or only double and scale the rest of the way, and when playing 720 at 1440, it would only need to double, not quadruple anymore.

[Q-the-STORM]

I am still not sure about how doubling/quadrupling works in one area. Suppose if I play a 480 video on 1440 monitor with only doubling enabled, it would use doubling to do 480 to 960 first, then upscaling from 960 to 1440?
And if quadrupling is enabled, it would go from 480 to 1960 then downscale to 1440? If that's the case when does it ever use doubling if quadrupling is enabled?

If I remember correctly, doubling does one nnedi pass and quadrupling simply does another nnedi pass...

So yes, if you got doubling enabled, it would do nnedi 480 to 960 and upscale the rest to 1440...
If you got quadrupling if would do nnedi 480 to 960, then nnedi 960 to 1920, then downscale to 1440...

and if you play 720p, then it should only do doubling (one nnedi pass) 720 to 1440, even if you have quadrupling enabled...
it should only quadruple if the target resolution has not been reached with one nnedi pass...

[madshi]

LAV uses a default 8x8 bayer matrix with ordered dithering.
The biggest problem was in YUV->RGB conversion, because I used the same matrix for all three channels, it resulted in the pattern to be amplified - but I fixed that by shifting the pattern between channels now, and the amplified pattern effect went away (and random uses different random sources for all channels anyway)

I don't consider random dithering in LAV any worse then ordered dithering. When looking at the night&day difference between random and ordered in madVR (when targeting lower bitdepth), I wondered for a second if random dithering wasn't implemented slightly incorrectly that made it too strong.
An advanced 32x32 ordered dithering matrix looks significantly better than an 8x8 bayer matrix, IMHO. madVR's random dithering is similar to what is recommended by experts for audio processing. It's using TPDF, and the amount of noise is probably twice as high as you're using in LAV. To be honest, I'm not sure if the same principles apply in video processing as they do in audio processing. Maybe a simpler approach instead of TPDF would do, and a lower amount of noise. But I don't think I'll bother investigating that now, since 32x32 ordered dithering looks better to my eyes, anyway, and isn't any slower...

I'm still getting a black screen every now and again which all but freezes zoom player. No crash reporter pops up. Apart from this little issue all is good.
What does the task manager say about ZoomPlayer's CPU RAM consumption when it's frozen like that?

Suppose if I play a 480 video on 1440 monitor with only doubling enabled, it would use doubling to do 480 to 960 first, then upscaling from 960 to 1440?
And if quadrupling is enabled, it would go from 480 to 1960 then downscale to 1440?
Yes, if that's what your configuration asks for.

[madshi]

For those of you guys who already have signs of withdrawal from the lack of dither testing, here's one more dither test build:

http://madshi.net/madVRlinearLightDithering.rar

The algorithms are basically the same as in v0.87.6, however, I've added Shiandow's linear light processing idea. The results look quite promising to me. At least switching between 8bit and 3bit doesn't brighten up the image, anymore. So it does exactly what it's supposed to do. Let me know what you think! FWIW, it will probably cost a bit of extra performance, but I hope it will not be too much. The test build always applies linear light processing for dithering, for both ordered dithering and the 2 error diffusion algorithms.

[James Freeman]

Wowee!!!

Looks very good.
It's very useful for folks with 6bit+FRC (and lower) panels to be 100% sure they get perfect gamma curve that visually matches the original content.
One of the fellows here even uses 5-bit for their projector... this build is very useful for him.

EDIT:
I've done more testing,
LL definitely looks closer to the the original content gamma-wise.
4-bit is watchable now (amazing for only 16 shades of grey), whether on Gamma light it was not representing the original picture correctly.

Can you please include 2-bit and 1-bit, or is it extremely unnecessary?

[seiyafan]

So for 480 -> 1440, in terms of rendering time, doubling is faster because quadrupling involves another pass. But in terms of visual, which one is better? doubling and upscaling or quadrupling and downscaling?

[fairchild]

So for 480 -> 1440, in terms of rendering time, doubling is faster because quadrupling involves another pass. But in terms of visual, which one is better? doubling and upscaling or quadrupling and downscaling?

It also matters what scaling factor you are using which determines when/if doubling/quad scaling kicks in. I use the following on my 7870 to my 1080p plasma:

chroma upscaling: lanczos 3 (AR), image upscaling: lanczos 3 (AR)
image doubling:
use NNEDI3 to double luma if scaling 2.0x 32 neurons
use NNEDI3 to quadruple luma if scaling 3.0x 16 neurons
image downscaling: camtull-rom (AR+LL)

Basically doubling only kicks in on 960x540 and below and quadrupling only kicks in on 640x360 and below.

[GREG1292]

Wowee!!!

Looks very good.
It's very useful for folks with 6bit+FRC (and lower) panels to be 100% sure they get perfect gamma curve that visually matches the original content.
One of the fellows here even uses 5-bit for their projector... this build is very useful for him.

EDIT:
I've done more testing,
LL definitely looks closer to the the original content gamma-wise.
4-bit is watchable now (amazing for only 16 shades of grey), whether on Gamma light it was not representing the original picture correctly.

Can you please include 2-bit and 1-bit, or is it extremely unnecessary?


Can't wait to test. On vacation for 2 weeks so no testing for me:(

[Werewolfy]

Hmmm... According to the log, my hooks are installed correctly, but they do are not called somehow. Weird. It seems you've configured madVR to switch the display mode in the moment when you go fullscreen? What happens if you switch at the start of playback? Does that change anything? Probably not, just wondering...

Unfortunately you're right, it doesn't change anything. I noticed that other users are on Windows 8.1, I'm on Windows 8. Maybe it comes from there but I don't really want to install 8.1, some video games are not compatible with it...

[MistahBonzai]

if a calibrated screen is really important to you, you may should think about getting a colorimeter.
I have a good working knowledge of display calibration but have no tools other than a multitude of test files and a DIY color temperature adjustment aid (partitioned black box, grey card(s), 6500K light source..). bottom line is that I'm satisfied that my display gamma is ~2.25 - it varies slightly dependent on luminance.

the best gamma should be choice n on your lightning condition in your room. typical 2.4 is what you want.
I adjust as needed although I'm in a well controled environment (dark room, 6500K backlight, no external light source falling on the screen).

see above setting gamma in "calibration" should't have an effect without "color & gamma" settings.
In this case a picture is worth 1K words. Screen crop (http://www.mediafire.com/view/jy0h10gizovwvda/calibration.PNG) of my
calibration options. The color and gamma options are completely unselected.

[seiyafan]

I think I finally got it so I am going to answer my own question. For quadrupling the first pass uses the neurons number from doubling and the second pass uses the neurons number from quadrupling. I used to think both passes use neurons from quadrupling so that's why I asked that why would the number of doubling neurons even matter for quadrupling.

That's a mouthful but please correct me if I am wrong.

[cyberbeing]

For quadrupling the first pass uses the neurons number from doubling and the second pass uses the neurons number from quadrupling.
This is correct.

[JonnyRedHed]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyRedHed View Post
I'm still getting a black screen every now and again which all but freezes zoom player. No crash reporter pops up. Apart from this little issue all is good.

madshi asked:
What does the task manager say about ZoomPlayer's CPU RAM consumption when it's frozen like that?



From the 3 times I observed it this afternoon before downgrading to 87.4, cpu ram was 600mb, 800mb, 400mb. When the cpu ram was highest, zoomplayer's crash was worse and required task manger to end process. Otherwise with the lower spikes I could 'esc' back to windowed mode and then click the zoomplayer 'x' to close it after it settled its self down. The video appears to still continue playing, audio can still be heard. I can click the screen once it goes black and playback will pause as normal and then resume with another click. No madvr crash reporter pops up, nor does zplayer crash window. Just a screen that goes black during playback, apparently at random.

This black screen, and very occasional white screen has never happened before in all my years of using zoomplayer and madvr.

With 0.87.4 this does not occur.

[secvensor]

1600х1200@100MHz
Error Diffusion - option 2 enabled

no dropped frames on (windowed/full-screen mode):
MPEG1 640x480 30fps 104857kbps https://mega.co.nz/#!JF92jR6K!PlNXU3xJ01jO3D4cJBSFSn61aYl3zB-t3eZJdj9c0oo (the BEST test video)
MPEG4 (H264 8bit) 960x720 29.917fps 2561kbps
MPEG4 (H264 8bit) 1280x720 25fps 2698kbps
MPEG4 (H264 10bit) 1280x720 60fps 6582kbps