madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) [Archive] - Page 223

nevcairiel

26th November 2011, 07:57

Quick question but what is the difference between decoding regular mpeg-2 and decoding "dvd video"? Is it the flags?

A DVD decoder needs to support DVD subtitles and the navigation overlays.

I tried decoding with LAV Video, and adding ffdshow raw video for the subtitles - and it failed miserably. Playback just froze when it hit the menu. When i added "support" for that in LAV Video (just accepting the data, but not drawing it), playback was fine.

So all thats left is drawing DVD subtitles and the navigation overlays that show which button is active.

jmone

26th November 2011, 08:37

Deinterlacing Issue with Non-Square Pixel Material on Intel IGP3000? I was testing using LAV Video and madVR over a range of test files using a i7-2600K with HD3000 IGP to see how it would go. It went really well for most content (including up to AVC 1080/50i material). I did find an issue however with lots of dropped frames but only if the source material had non-square pixels (eg 1440x1080, or Anamorphic 720x576i). At first I thought it was only MPEG-2 but it is also DV-AVI. So a 4:3 720x576i is fine, but a 16:9 720x576i is not.

Queues look like this:
Decoder 26-28/28
Upload 12-15/24
Deinterlace 1-5/24
Render 1-3/24
Backbuffer 0-2/8

Things I tried:
* If I check "perform deinterlacing in seperate thread" then the Deinterlace queue goes to 21-24/24, but Render 1-3/24, and Backbuffer 0-1/8
* Exclusive mode makes no difference
* If I deinterlace in LAV Video (eg YADIF) then the issue goes away
* If I use a different GPU (eg nVidia 550Ti) then the issue goes away

ikarad

26th November 2011, 14:06

@Madshi
I have problem with madvr and rgb32 output with ffdshow
image is cut in tow parts (up there is image, down there is black screen)
http://img15.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_482396Sanstitre.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=482396Sanstitre.jpg)

with nv12 ou yv12 output in ffdshow ther is no problem
http://img15.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_197490Sanstitre.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=197490Sanstitre.jpg)

I have madvr0.74 but even problem with all version of madvr.

Same problem with all version of ffdshow (I use the last version but I try with many versions)

Edit: It works with RGB24. The problem occurs with only RGB32

nx6

26th November 2011, 14:14

You're still using madVR as the renderer, ffdshow just does the MPEG2 decoding.

http://i.imgur.com/wWQRis.png (http://i.imgur.com/wWQRi.png)

http://i.imgur.com/CeD0os.png (http://i.imgur.com/CeD0o.png)

Many of the things listed in that guide are either redundant, or detrimental.

All 4:2:2, 4:4:4, and in most cases, all RGB formats should be disabled in ffdshow/LAV Video decoder's output options. (madVR needs the raw 4:2:0 data to work best).
Sorry man, this does not work. I just set it up as you have it configured in these screenshots.

I don't know why folks keep say "Yeah MadVR works fine, you just gotta use such-and-such filter setup". No, it doesn't. If you're on Windows 7+, you cannot play back DVDs (via the VDEO_TS file, not the IFOs) with MadVR unless you have been monkeying around with the DVD Navigator.

nevcairiel

26th November 2011, 15:10

I don't know why folks keep say "Yeah MadVR works fine, you just gotta use such-and-such filter setup". No, it doesn't. If you're on Windows 7+, you cannot play back DVDs (via the VDEO_TS file, not the IFOs) with MadVR unless you have been monkeying around with the DVD Navigator.

You should not talk in absolutes.
I can play DVDs with madVR in MPC-HC just fine, without changing anything about the DVD Navigator (on Win7 SP1 x64)

I do however use AnyDVD to remove copy protections from DVDs, not sure if that matters. The main point is, it works just fine without "monkeying around with the DVD Navigator", so your point is just not true (for me, and other people as well).

nx6

26th November 2011, 15:24

You should not talk in absolutes.
I can play DVDs with madVR in MPC-HC just fine, without changing anything about the DVD Navigator (on Win7 SP1 x64)

I do however use AnyDVD to remove copy protections from DVDs, not sure if that matters.
No, it's not a copy protection thing (at least not a DVD copy protection thing). Happens when I try backup burns of my DVDs as well, and those had all the copy protection stripped.

Maybe it only effects U.S. versions of Windows?

mrcorbo

26th November 2011, 17:38

No, it's not a copy protection thing (at least not a DVD copy protection thing). Happens when I try backup burns of my DVDs as well, and those had all the copy protection stripped.

Maybe it only effects U.S. versions of Windows?

It works fine here on a U.S. copy of Win7 x64 without patching the DVD navigator.

dansrfe

26th November 2011, 18:59

mrcorbo

26th November 2011, 19:27

fairchild

26th November 2011, 20:12

To the people that say the regular Windows 7 navigator works for them...please explain how and what you use.

I'm on Windows 7 x64, MPC-HC latest, ffdshow A/V latest, LAV Splitter, madVR...and I can't bypass the Macrovision error without replacing or changing paths to qdvd.dll.

It largely depends on the DVD I've noticed. Those with newer copy protection schemes will not work with MadVR unless I run AnyDVD to break the encryption. Switching to EVR alleviates the problem. Anyways, when I want to watch a DVD (and it's rare) with MadVR, I use Lav Filters + MadVR + ffdshow video decoder (for DVD video decoding using libavcodec on Mpeg2) + AnyDVD.

MPC-HC, ffdshow for both a/v (for DVDs), madVR and Reclock. There's really nothing special about my setup. It just works.

This has not always been the case, but at some point it got fixed. I'm afraid I don't know how or when as DVD playback isn't really that important to me and when I did have to play a DVD and got the Macrovision error I just switched back to EVR-CP. At some point, quite some time ago, I found that this was no longer necessary and it hasn't been an issue since.

I noticed this too but after just checking today using all the latest filters + MPC-HC or Potplayer, encryption error occurs when trying to use MadVR + DVD (with ffdshow video decoding for MPEG2/DVD decoding) on Avatar DVD.

kasper93

27th November 2011, 01:09

For me DVD playback works only with ffdshow audio processor. So I have MPC-HC, madVR, LAV Audio, Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder, ffdshow audio processor, and DVD navigator (WIN 7 64bit sp1)

EDIT:
It works without ffdshow audio processor when we set ffdshow video decoder as decoder for DVD :) img (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/MPC-HC/dvd.png)

sexus

27th November 2011, 06:42

yeah lets just hope nevcairiel finishes his dvd support soon so we wont need ffdshow video no more

Mikey2

27th November 2011, 07:38

I apologize for this really dumb question,, I suddenly dawned on me that a big point of the recent versions and discussions have me confused: I thought that on a fundamental level DXVA does not work with madVR (only with EVR...)

(I ran a few tests and sure enough I can get CoreAVC and MPC"s internal DXVA decoder to work in conjunction with EVR, but not with madVR.)

I normally use software decoding since it in itself makes no difference in image quality, but with the praises for DXVA in conjunction with the new de-interlace functionality of madVR, I want to try this out.

Does this imply that madVR uses HW de-interlacing when DXVA is enabled?
If so (as has been claimed) is madVR's de-interlacer superior to, for example, YADIF only in HW/DXVA/De-Interlace mode?

Thank you for bearing with my stupidity on this one (even after exhaustive research elsewhere I know I am not "getting" something extremely fundamental here...)

PS - Does this have something to do with DXVA *2*? Edit: I thought I had an issue there, but EVR is reporting that it is running DXVA2 (which makes sense since I am on Windows 7 Enterprise)

nevcairiel

27th November 2011, 08:12

Does this imply that madVR uses HW de-interlacing when DXVA is enabled?
If so (as has been claimed) is madVR's de-interlacer superior to, for example, YADIF only in HW/DXVA/De-Interlace mode?

First, you have to realize that DXVA is not a synonym for "Hardware Decoding". DXVA is a whole set of APIs that deal with DirectX Video Acceleration - which include Decoding, but also Post-Processing.

Keeping that in mind:
madVR will use DXVA Video Processing to deinterlace the movie. It will do that on all interlaced movies you send to it - it doesn't support any other deinterlacing mehtod.
And - madVR is still incompatible with DXVA Decoding. It can use DXVA Video Processing with any good software decoder, however.

If your HW deinterlacing is superior depends on your GPU, and usually is rather subjective.

6233638

27th November 2011, 09:04

Sorry man, this does not work. I just set it up as you have it configured in these screenshots.

I don't know why folks keep say "Yeah MadVR works fine, you just gotta use such-and-such filter setup". No, it doesn't. If you're on Windows 7+, you cannot play back DVDs (via the VDEO_TS file, not the IFOs) with MadVR unless you have been monkeying around with the DVD Navigator.I have no system file modifications and with AnyDVD disabled, this still works fine playing straight off a disc. (AnyDVD is still required for Blu-ray playback, right?)

Set MadVR as your video renderer under Playback > Output
Disable all internal MPC-HC filters, including the Audio Switcher. (you can just right-click on the lists and "disable all")
This is the minimum external filters I need to set up to have DVD playback working:
http://i.imgur.com/9vZLKs.png (http://i.imgur.com/9vZLK.png)
In ffdshow's configuration, make sure you have DVD decoding enabled:
http://i.imgur.com/BMT8Ks.png (http://i.imgur.com/BMT8K.png)
To load a DVD, use File > Open Disc:
http://i.imgur.com/XJxsFs.png (http://i.imgur.com/XJxsF.png)

Open Directory may also work, I have no idea.
This is my filter list when a file is playing:
http://i.imgur.com/7BQ5bs.png (http://i.imgur.com/7BQ5b.png)

ffdshow's Audio Processor does not interfere with DVD playback.
Other filters might. It used to be that I could not use ffdshow Video/Audio decoders at all with madVR for DVD playback (Macrovision error) but that seems to have been fixed.
Make sure you are up to date with MPC-HC and ffdshow. I'm a few weeks behind I think, but fairly recent.

I use ReClock as my audio renderer (particularly to play back 25p DVDs at 24Hz) but it's not necessary.

Oh, and madVR's refresh rate switcher may either not switch away from 60Hz, or introduce Macrovision errors. Still doesn't work reliably for me here so I manually switch before playing back anything.

I hope that works for you.

sexus

27th November 2011, 10:51

btw still getting jittery playback with .avi files heres a recent media log from one of them, i thought this was fixed in the latest lav filters -.-' , help ?!:

General
Complete name : H:\Movies library III\11-11-11\11UnKnowN.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 933 MiB
Duration : 1h 20mn
Overall bit rate : 1 614 Kbps
Writing library : MPlayer

Video
ID : 0
Format : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile : Advanced Simple@L5
Format settings, BVOP : 1
Format settings, QPel : No
Format settings, GMC : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Codec ID : XVID
Codec ID/Hint : XviD
Duration : 1h 20mn
Bit rate : 1 161 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 304 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.221
Stream size : 671 MiB (72%)
Writing library : XviD 1.2.1 (UTC 2008-12-04)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : 2000
Duration : 1h 20mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 259 MiB (28%)
Alignment : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration : 480 ms (11.51 video frames)
Interleave, preload duration : 960 ms

Mikey2

27th November 2011, 11:09

you have to realize that DXVA is not a synonym for "Hardware Decoding". DXVA is a whole set of APIs that deal with DirectX Video Acceleration - which include Decoding, but also Post-Processing.

Thank you so much! That small clarification was exactly what I was missing!

Actually I hope this is good news. I mentioned earlier in the thread that I have been having problems with frame-drops with de-interlacing on in .78 and in all situations (with decent ups-scalers) in .79. My favorite de-interlacer is MadVR’s; however, everything points to my bottleneck being the pathetically small 256MB of RAM on my SLI’d NVidia 8600GT cards. Therefore historically I have stayed away from HW decoding in the past (hence my ignorance.)

However, I have been working on the problem for so many hours and days that I am also trying to fill-in the gaps of my knowledge (specifically on the fundamental nature of these new features in madVR.)

Thus is seems H/W decoding part of the DXVA2 API/SDK is [thankfully] unused and therefore my question was in fact irrelevant. However, am I correct in understanding that, even it is not intrinsically implied, the de-interlacing API’s of the post-processing portion of DXVA2 are being used by madVR on the GPU? (My monitors seem to point to unfilled rendering queues, pinned GPU memory, and thus dropped frames while using de-interlacing.) Or is madVR simply using th DXVA2 API but still performing the calculations on the CPU, thus making this some sort of glitch in the software “plugging up” my GPU?

In any case, at the moment my GPU simply cannot perform both madVR’s de-interlacing and high-order upscaling algorithms simultaneously. Therefore as much as I like the new de-interlacer, it seems most prudent to utilize my limited GPU for Lanczos or spline upscaling and delegate the de-interlacing to YADIF over ffdshow and my under-utilized CPU…

I just wish I could afford a new GPU right now. ;)

Thanks again for your help!

mr.duck

27th November 2011, 11:54

My favorite de-interlacer is MadVR’s;
madVR does not deinterlace. It just allows the graphics card to deinterlace.

Tanis138

27th November 2011, 15:16

Madshi, I want to ask you about this fix:
* MPC-HC OSD text "Pausa" is now blocked (to avoid disappearing subtitles)
It's not working with my MPC-HC. I spent hours changing settings in madVr and MPC-HC, trying different versions of MPC-HC, but with no result - subtitles disappear on pause. But then (with the help of my 6 sense I guess :) ) I changed language in MPC-HC from my native language (Russian) to English - and subtitles stop disappearing! Then I tried some other languages (German, French) - subtitles begin to disappear again. So, I realized, that your fix working only with English version of MPC-HC. Could you please make it work with other languages (at least with Russian)? Thank you very much!

P.S. If you block OSD message any time you encounter word "Play" or "Pause" in OSD text, here translation of these words into Russian: "Play"="Воспроизведение", "Pause"="Пауза".

mindz

27th November 2011, 21:39

I was wondering if there is any difference in PQ between media players like mpc hc, potplayer, zoomplayer etc, or that the painted picture on screen relies solely on the video decoder/ video renderer?

SamuriHL

27th November 2011, 21:45

PQ comes down to decoder (shouldn't cause PQ issues in theory) and renderer. The renderer can have a very large affect on PQ. So to answer your question, if you use LAV Video and madVR in all those players, they will look identical. If you're using internal decoders and/or renderers, then there could be a difference. Again, the decoder SHOULDN'T make a lot of difference in PQ unless it's doing some kind of post processing.

mindz

27th November 2011, 22:19

Thanks for your reply and explanation :).

oddball

28th November 2011, 11:13

I think that under known problems/limitations you should make it known that you cannot screencap yet. I keep looking for this in each build update but thus far no go.

namaiki

28th November 2011, 11:23

You can still use print screen or alt+print screen if you're not in exclusive mode. By the way, any idea why one of the tags for the thread is "free tibet!"?

nx6

28th November 2011, 11:47

I have no system file modifications and with AnyDVD disabled, this still works fine playing straight off a disc. (AnyDVD is still required for Blu-ray playback, right?)

<image thumbnails removed>

Open Directory may also work, I have no idea.
This is my filter list when a file is playing:
http://i.imgur.com/7BQ5bs.png (http://i.imgur.com/7BQ5b.png)[/list]

ffdshow's Audio Processor does not interfere with DVD playback.
Other filters might. It used to be that I could not use ffdshow Video/Audio decoders at all with madVR for DVD playback (Macrovision error) but that seems to have been fixed.
Make sure you are up to date with MPC-HC and ffdshow. I'm a few weeks behind I think, but fairly recent.

I use ReClock as my audio renderer (particularly to play back 25p DVDs at 24Hz) but it's not necessary.

Nope, still not working.

Double checked my setup and disabled the internal audio switcher that was still running and unchecked the DVD Title Set filter from the internal splitter's list. I do find it interesting that both you and the last poster who said it worked for them was using ReClock, but that's just a coincidence, I'm sure.

Oh well. Still seems to be a bug in MadVR, or more accurately I think, a change in Windows made to disrupt using third party players for DVD playback in Windows. Can't have a free app outperforming WMP on picture quality after all. ;)

golagoda

28th November 2011, 12:03

You can still use print screen or alt+print screen if you're not in exclusive mode. By the way, any idea why one of the tags for the thread is "free tibet!"?

I don't know what's going on with the tags either... in the MPC-HC thread one of the tags is "potplayer rules them all!" :p

oddball

28th November 2011, 12:08

You can still use print screen or alt+print screen if you're not in exclusive mode. By the way, any idea why one of the tags for the thread is "free tibet!"?

Yes but you have to unselect exclusive mode, exit the player, restart the movie, try and find the last position you was at, take the screencap, set to exclusive again, exit the player, restart the movie and go back to where you left off!

I can do the same thing by selecting VMR for renderer for the duration.

With native screencap capability even in exclusive mode it would be a simple case of pause the movie and take the screencap!

Basically it's just inconvenient.

For 'me' being able to screencap without messing around is the last peice in the puzzle for MadVR.

namaiki

28th November 2011, 12:35

Yes but you have to unselect exclusive mode, exit the player, restart the movie, try and find the last position you was at, take the screencap, set to exclusive again, exit the player, restart the movie and go back to where you left off!

You can right-click to activate a context menu to get out of exclusive mode.

oddball

28th November 2011, 12:49

You can right-click to activate a context menu to get out of exclusive mode.

Where? If I right click MadVR's tray icon it's not there. If I go into MadVR's settings and untick fullscreen exclusive mode. OK it. Pause the movie or go back a bit and try to take a screencap I still get GetDIB Failed.

EDIT: I tried disabling both exclusive and use seperate presentation for good measure. Restarted the movie and tried to screencap. No dice. Same error.

golagoda

28th November 2011, 13:05

Where? If I right click MadVR's tray icon it's not there. If I go into MadVR's settings and untick fullscreen exclusive mode. OK it. Pause the movie or go back a bit and try to take a screencap I still get GetDIB Failed.

EDIT: I tried disabling both exclusive and use seperate presentation for good measure. Restarted the movie and tried to screencap. No dice. Same error.

I think he meant if you right-click inside the player (where the video is shown... :p) to open the player's context menu while in exclusive mode it will change to windowed mode (it works for me at least).

oddball

28th November 2011, 13:25

I think he meant if you right-click inside the player (where the video is shown... :p) to open the player's context menu while in exclusive mode it will change to windowed mode (it works for me at least).

I already knew that. Makes no difference to screencaps though.

mindz

28th November 2011, 13:36

SamuriHL

28th November 2011, 14:03

Is there any difference in PQ between ffdshow and LAV Video Decoder?

Not unless you're doing any post processing with ffdshow.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

mindz

28th November 2011, 14:13

Thanks again for your quick reply :).

nevcairiel

28th November 2011, 14:21

Not unless you're doing any post processing with ffdshow.

Or you're playing anything thats not 8-bit 4:2:0

mindz

28th November 2011, 20:46

Can you care to explain :)? It's true that 99% of the content is 4:2:0 right? I know of the Hi10P content around, but there isnt much content encoded in this format right?

Anyways, i would like to know why there is a difference in other formats, because ffdshow doesnt support it?

Andy o

28th November 2011, 21:43

Hi10p is something else (10-bit depth H.264), and all Hi10p content I've seen (just some anime reencodes) is still 4:2:0. I'm also curious about what other content is in higher than 4:2:0 though. Don't think it even matters unless the original source is also higher.

SamuriHL

28th November 2011, 21:47

I don't have any content higher than 4:2:0.

nevcairiel

28th November 2011, 21:49

10-bit suffers from the same problem, ffdshow cannot deal with it 100% correctly. So its really anything thats not 8-bit 4:2:0

Qaq

28th November 2011, 22:54

Sat feeds.
Intelsat 905 (24.5°W)
Frequency: 11001 - Pol: H - SR: 12856 - FEC:
Category: Spectacle
Transmitted in: MPEG-2 4:2:2

Asmodian

28th November 2011, 23:07

I can also capture SVHS to 10-bit 4:2:2.

mr.duck

29th November 2011, 18:23

Someone removed my 'awesome' tag :'(

I liked to click on it... "Threads tagged with awesome... madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)"... The only one.

mindz

29th November 2011, 20:42

I found something in the deinterlacing of madVR that i do not understand. Whenever i enable deinterlacing on a progressive .mkv, the color changes. Reds are less red, and colors overall look better. How is this possible?

With DVD content (25i PAL) if i turn OFF deinterlacing the picture is sharper, and better looking, plus the deinterlacing is done better (weird? :/)

Does deinterlacing always have such effects on picture quality and colors?

Qaq

29th November 2011, 22:40

You need some test interlaced video to be sure you got more "correct" picture and not just "better looking". AFAIR, madshi provided a link with first "deinterlacing" version.

Mikey2

30th November 2011, 02:51

madVR does not deinterlace. It just allows the graphics card to deinterlace.

I apologize, that's what I mean - I think I understand what madVR is [and is not] doing. (Well now I do, thanks to responses on this thread...thank you!)

I have always liked the HW de-interlacer on my card, but previously could only use a SW decoding/HW de-interlacing mix when explicitly set as such in PowerDVD. Which was nice, but obviously is less desirable than using MPC-HC with madVR rendering (not to mention all of my nifty filters such as ReClock, AC3Filter [yes I still think that old filter is my favorite audio decoder ;) ] etc...)

QBhd

30th November 2011, 06:28

....AC3Filter [yes I still think that old filter is my favorite audio decoder ;) ]...)

It is great except when it comes to DTS-HDMA and other audio greater than 6-channels... Since I found LAV filters I have not even looked back at AC3Filter. Nothing beats LAV & madVR and I give huge props to mad & nev for their hard work.

QB

6233638

30th November 2011, 11:05

So I've run into more presentation glitches, probably because I'm using the new Nvidia 290.36 beta drivers. (if you play the latest games, it seems you need to run beta drivers)
What I have found is that as soon as the present queue reaches 15–16/16, presentation glitches start to show up, even with the "limit rendering times to avoid glitches" option enabled, in 0.79 at least.

I can set the CPU queue as large as I like (32) without impacting performance, but I have to turn the GPU queue down to 6 as this keeps the present queue below 12/16 at all times. (with 8, it went to 14/16, but occassionally hit 16 and glitched)

If I have a high GPU queue, and reduce the number of frames to be presented in advance to 8, for example, then the render and presentation queues gradually drop to 0, with or without the "limit rendering times to avoid glitches" option.
If I have a low GPU queue and present queue, the same thing happens. They gradually drop to 0.

So for me, the best thing looks to be:
CPU Queue: 32
GPU Queue: 6
Present Queue: 16

Lower than 16 might work for the present queue, especially if I further lowered the GPU queue, but I prefer to keep them as high as possible without experiencing glitches. (ensures there are no dropped frames)

So if you're using a Nvidia card and are still experiencing presentation glitches, lowering the GPU queue while keeping the presentation queue high might help.

EDIT: Had to drop the GPU queue to 4 with some videos. I guess it depends on how complex they are? Hopefully that sorts it.

azaze1

30th November 2011, 19:59

Madshi,

I've been using CCC's 0-255 RGB Full setting per your recommendations and recommendations of many others since day 1.

I've now come across a posting from a home theater forum suggesting that a recent release of MadVR came with a new recommendation of yours to use RGB Studio/limited for AMD/ATI users.

Is this true? Is the conversion process no longer detrimental to the color quality ?

Any clarification you can provide would be appreciated.

Thanks,