madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[clsid]

24 fps video will never have smooth visual movement, regardless of the monitor refresh rate.

The video freezing is due to some corruption in the bitstream. FFmpeg show some errors when seeking.

[x7007]

What the hell, even when it is selected is choose Direct9Renderer in Potplayer

[huhn]

you need a new version the old one timed out.

[x7007]

you need a new version the old one timed out.

Which one I am using 1.66

Ha finally new version I see, I have update version for 2 months and there were no new version anywhere pff

[mzso]

If you don't like the madvr deinterlacing, have you tried all 4 choices lav offers? You can try other players too.. VLC has 10 deinterlacing choices. MPV has its own set as well.

Yes. Image quality wise they look good no problem with that, However all of them make the video less smooth. For reasons, unknown to me. Even the madVR HW is not completely smooth. Only using the TV as a TV is. (No interpolation enabled.)

I enabled "smooth motion frame rate conversion", which is still not as smooth as the TV used directly. What is this option doing anyway?

[mzso]

What CPU do you have? Is it an APU (with iGPU)? What GPU do you use?

Zen1 Ryzen 5 1600. I didn't find myself lacking CPU power for my needs so I didn't see a reason to upgrade. (Plus I'd probably need the mobo as well, which makes it rather expensive.)

[OpenSource Ghost]

Does anyone with the latest Windows 11 22621.1992 + NVidia 536.67 + G-Sync monitors have issues with madVR applying 3DLUT's, even when G-Sync is disabled? It simply does apply them not and doesn't snap into exclusive fullcreen mode either, but applies 3DLUT's to FreeSync monitors just fine.

[AngelGraves13]

Which one I am using 1.66

Ha finally new version I see, I have update version for 2 months and there were no new version anywhere pff

New versions are posted here...no need to follow the thread at all.

https://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR/old-versions

[mzso]

New versions are posted here...no need to follow the thread at all.

https://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR/old-versions

The notification feature of videohelp didn't work for me though for madvr. (Last e-mail about this is from 2018, for 0.92.17)
Maybe it only works for stable releases, because I get them for other software. Madvr however probably will never have a new stable version.

[Anime Viewer]

It's been a while since I've posted on the madVR thread. I'm considering buying myself a new notebook/laptop, and given I watch a lot of things using a combination of Madvr, MPC, LAV, and XY subfilter I wanted to get reacquainted with what would be beneficial to look for to get in a system that will work well with MadVR.
I've been looking into the Asus ROG Flow devices because I like the light weight and portability that also appears to have decent GPU(s). It seems versatile in that videos could be watched from it in a tablet format, as a laptop/notebook, or connect it out to a TV with display port/HDMI and take it from one location to another due to the light weight.

Anyone have any insight into how well this type of system may work with madVR, LAV, and the related software for viewing videos?

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

[mataus]

Hi, I've just had my Sony VW790ES installed. It has the latest Firmware: Ver.6.003 installed.

I've connected my PC running MPC-HC and madVR (latest release v0.92.17)
to HDMI 1 using a 15m RUIPRO 4K HDMI Fibre Optic Cable. This connects to my Nvidia 3070Ti graphics card.

The problem I'm having is that Nvidia control panel is detecting the PJ as 1920x1080p native. In Nvidia control panel it allows me to select 4096x2160 & 3840x2160 however this then locks out the color depth to 8 bit and dynamic range to 'Limited' and thus I cannot get HDR working correctly. If I select 1920x1080 (Native) in the Nvidia control panel it then allows me to select RGB, 10 bit, 'Full' dynamic range.


I have tried 3 different HDMI cables including the 1 meter HDMI 2.1 cable I use for my PS5 and I'm getting the same problems.


Using the same PC and cables hooked up to my LG OLED55B9PLA, Nvidia control panel shows 3840x2160 (Native) @ 120hz refresh rate and allows selection of RGB, Full dynamic range with 10 bit color depth. HDR works fine and I can play my games up to 120 FPS.


My question is for MPC-HC & madVR what should I select in Nvidia control panel for 'Output Color format' / 'Output Color depth' / 'Output dynamic range' ? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Klaus1189]

https://pro.sony/support/res/manuals/5022/aaffa0692e3cdb64cb74eecefd5e3f48/50229474M.pdf

Page 41+42

If you reduce refresh rate to 23, 24, 25, 29 or 30 it should work. It does not support higher than that.

[mataus]

https://pro.sony/support/res/manuals/5022/aaffa0692e3cdb64cb74eecefd5e3f48/50229474M.pdf

Page 41+42

If you reduce refresh rate to 23, 24, 25, 29 or 30 it should work. It does not support higher than that.

It's funny, I was just reading that page in the manual as I read your message. Thanks. However the manual details 3840x2160 @ 60hz. This is what I'm trying to select but then the 'Output Color format' / 'Output Color depth' / 'Output dynamic range' are locked to limited and 8bit

[el Filou]

The projector probably does not support the newer signaling ("FRL") needed for higher bandwidth combinations of definition/refresh rate/bit depth, so when you go higher than 30 Hz at UHD in RGB you are limited to 8-bit to fit into the available bandwidth. You could maybe use YCbCr 4:2:2 instead of RGB to get 10-bit, but don't ask me if it will get you better picture quality, there are so many variables here.Yes. Image quality wise they look good no problem with that, However all of them make the video less smooth. For reasons, unknown to me. Even the madVR HW is not completely smooth. Only using the TV as a TV is. (No interpolation enabled.)

I enabled "smooth motion frame rate conversion", which is still not as smooth as the TV used directly. What is this option doing anyway?So when you say "smooth", you mean movement smoothness?
Interlaced material can only be deinterlaced to 2x the field rate, so if you are watching 30i you should get 60 fps (= 16.66 ms frame time in madVR OSD), or 50 fps (= 20 ms frame time) with 25i. Is the OSD correctly showing 16/20 ms frame time?
Note that what you call madVR HW deinterlacing is in fact just the graphics driver's deinterlacing, so it all depends on how well the graphics manufacturer implements that. I know AMD have had some issues with deinterlacing recently but my only AMD card is 11 years old now so I can't speak for newer products.

[Klaus1189]

The two HDMIs are unfortunately limited to 18Gbps bandwidths, meaning they can’t support such new gaming features as 4K at 120Hz and variable refresh rates. But then no other projector, so far as I’m aware, currently supports such features either.

Source:
https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/sony-vpl-vw790es

It can do 3840x2160p60 but only @ YCbCr 4:2:0 @ 8 bit per color (24-bit) -> HDMI 2.0 limitation of 18 Gbps

Up to 3840x2160p30 it can do RGB (or YCbCr 4:4:4) @ 10 bit per color (30-bit)

[Klaus1189]

If I remember correctly it could be possible to get these also:
3840x2160p60 @4:2:0 with 10-bit per color
3840x2160p60 @4:4:4 (or RGB) with 8-bit per color. HDR should also work with Nvidia if i remember correctly with 8-bit (dithered down)

[mataus]

By reducing the refresh rate to 30hz in Nvidia control panel I've managed to set the following:

Desktop colour depth: Highest (32-bit)

Output colour depth: 10 bpc

Output colour format: RGB

Output dynamic range: Full

I've set my projectors 'Dynamic range' to 'Full' and the 'HDMI Signal Format' to 'Enhanced'. Lastly I set the madVR range to 0-265.

Annoyingly, Nvidia control panel still shows 1920x1080 (Native) which is strange considering the PJ is native 4k.

[el Filou]

Normally native resolution is reported by the device itself.
If you open madVR settings then go to the device and Identification submenu, what does the line "native resolution" say?

[huhn]

and it is not totally unusually that it is reported as 1080p just ignore it.

[mataus]

normally native resolution is reported by the device itself.
If you open madvr settings then go to the device and identification submenu, what does the line "native resolution" say?

18470

[Klaus1189]

Please upload to external site like google drive

[mataus]

Please upload to external site like google drive

The picture? I don't understand, are you not allowed to upload pics?

[mataus]

Normally native resolution is reported by the device itself.
If you open madVR settings then go to the device and Identification submenu, what does the line "native resolution" say?

Madvr details native resolution as 4096x2160

[Klaus1189]

Attachments here must be reviewed by moderators. Better to upload any file like your picture on Google drive or similar.

[mataus]

Okay thanks for the heads up

[Anime Viewer]

I noticed during video playback (with CTRL+J onscreen) that it shows my rendering as:
Rendering 14-15ms, 4.76ms YCbCr 4:4:4 to RGB, 3.15ms Subtitles -RBG processing, 3.00ms Subtitles -RBG processing, and 3.71ms FinalStep.

I'm not sure why Subtitles is on there twice. Guessing it only needs to be on there once, and it may be wasting resources running it twice.
Kind of a spin off on that would it be better for me to change YCbCr / RBG settings on my computer or display device (in this case a tv) to free up those resources so that I could enable some other higher end MadVR feature?

[huhn]

RGB driver settings do not matter for performance madVR will always render RGB.

the 2 subtitle lines come from unchecking "optimize subtitle quality for performance instead of quality". which should never ever been unchecked.

the 4:4:4 RGB line only exist with 4:4:4 source or messed up lavfilter setting.

[Sunspark]

Why not quality huhn?

[huhn]

because it is buggy and we are talking about subtitles here. i'm not even aware of a single scrrenshot showing any difference at all.

[ryrynz]

the 2 subtitle lines come from unchecking "optimize subtitle quality for performance instead of quality". which should never ever been unchecked.


I've always had this unchecked.. does it offer minimal benefits for the extra load it produces? I've never seen any tests or opinions on this option in the thread before.

Ahh the Asmodian speaks.

I run with everything disabled. If you use subtitles enabling "optimize subtitle quality for performance instead of quality" can have a noticeable impact on performance without a significant hit to subtitle quality, but that is the only one I could imagine using with a GTX 1080.

[QBhd]

I just checked it... if I see subs looking like garbage I will turn it back off, but I agree, it is the only one I could even imagine checking.

QB

[ryrynz]

I enabled it and subs didn't even change in quality from what I saw

[huhn]

seems to be bit deep for subtitle rendering.
i'm sure you will be fine even with 8

http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=115

[Sunspark]

I wanted to see if I could detect a performance difference on this intel igpu.

I tested with a 4:4:4 10-bit anime file and a 4:2:0 8-bit regular file and could not see a difference with overlay mode and mpc-hc's internal subtitle renderer.

gpu-z was loaded and showrendersteps was placed in the madvr directory.

In windowed or fullscreen mode, showrendersteps did not have any lines displayed for subtitle rendering times. (Probably would if I used an external subtitle module as I remember I used to use one years ago but stopped for a reason, I think performance issues.) gpu-z load % did not change.

Conclusion, no performance difference whatsoever if using these settings, so for this configuration it is ok to leave the box unchecked.

Someone using an external subtitle module like xysubfilter, etc. would have to test to see they are affected by having this box checked or unchecked, as well as the rendering path chosen, e.g. D3D11.

[huhn]

you have to use a subtitle renderer that actually uses madVR to render them.

yes if madVR doesn't render the subtitles it will not be slowed down by it.

[Sunspark]

Is this a legacy thing from before, or is there still a good reason today to not use a player's internal renderer?

[ryrynz]

XYSubfilter with libass all the way.. in dire need of multithreading support though as it can get bogged down pretty easily.

[clsid]

No it is not.

MPC-HC internal subtitle renderer has gained libass option. Available in latest development build.

Libass is only useful for certain Anime videos with very complex subtitle animation effects. Regular ISR works perfectly fine for regular subtitles.

Regarding "trade quality for performance" section in madvr settings, this should really be renamed to "sacrifice huge performance losses for tiny theoretical quality gains that you probably won't even notice". Maybe then everyone will stop shooting themselves in the head with a shotgun.

[Sunspark]

Which configuration demonstrates these large-scale losses though? My test with the ISR demonstrated none at all.

[huhn]

there is a very very reatlistic chance that ISR is just better these days.

the reason to use any "new subtitle interface" renderer today is color correction and SM subtitle moving with blackbar detection. pretty much all edge cases i'm sadly effected by.

if you use neither of these just stick to ISR.

the ISR has nothing todo with that very bad trade for quality option.
the HDR stuff is literally disabling/enabling advanced tone mapping they have a place the performance impact of them is still very questionable at best if i compare them to mpv gpu-next.

[clsid]

Which configuration demonstrates these large-scale losses though? My test with the ISR demonstrated none at all.I was talking about all those options together. The "scale chroma separately" is one example that can have big negative performance effect.
If you don't notice any difference, then why bother changing a setting from its recommended default value.

the reason to use any "new subtitle interface" renderer today is color correction and SM subtitle moving with blackbar detection. pretty much all edge cases i'm sadly effected by.Such processing in madvr is not dependent on the interface. Subtitle moving also works with ISR. But madvr seems buggy regarding moving in some situations. Not fault of ISR at all.
And talking about RGB matrix color correction. ISR has same functionality for that as XySubFilter. Not dependent on "new" interface at all. And funny thing, it is controlled the option this discussion was originally about.
Any other color correction and tonemapping in madvr pipeline is totally not subtitle interface dependent.

[huhn]

i don't mean the basic calibration stuff like gamma processing or setting a gamut.

i talk about a 3D LUT:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MpUyFI2v7BwFsg7oIGezGkWeBOGeCZj7/view?usp=sharing
still have my color destroyer for testing. than you can press control+shift+3 and see it doesn't care. this is not test with the dev build.
And funny thing, it is controlled the option this discussion was originally about.
i just triple check this.
we are not talking about optimize subtitle for performance instead of quality here because the ISR clearly doesn't care and is not just wasting 2 ms to do about nothing.

[mzso]

So when you say "smooth", you mean movement smoothness?
Interlaced material can only be deinterlaced to 2x the field rate, so if you are watching 30i you should get 60 fps (= 16.66 ms frame time in madVR OSD), or 50 fps (= 20 ms frame time) with 25i. Is the OSD correctly showing 16/20 ms frame time?
Note that what you call madVR HW deinterlacing is in fact just the graphics driver's deinterlacing, so it all depends on how well the graphics manufacturer implements that. I know AMD have had some issues with deinterlacing recently but my only AMD card is 11 years old now so I can't speak for newer products.

Yes. I mean motion.


So I tried 50Hz, thinking that is the only way video will be smooth since I get 50i. Result is not good, because I started getting frame drops. When it doesn't drop frames it seems to be smooth, I guess.

The frime time is 20Hz in both 50 and 60 Hz. But on 60 it's not really smooth without frame drops. On 50 it drops frames, rather often.

[el Filou]

@mzso Ah OK. It seems you have two problems:

1. Playing 25i (= 50 fps after deinterlacing) at 60 Hz is never going to be smooth, because the display refresh rate doesn't match the frame rate.

2. It seems your GPU can't keep up with rendering 50 fps in madVR.
If you don't want to change all your settings just for that, you can create profiles, for example LowFrameRate and HighFrameRate and use this script:

if (deintFps < 50) then "LowFrameRate"
else "HighFrameRate"

then use lower settings in the HighFrameRate profile until it stops dropping frames.Madvr details native resolution as 4096x2160Then I have no idea why the NVIDIA driver would default to 1920x1080, sorry. Maybe this is a driver bug with 4K Cinema Vs. 4K TV and it doesn't like the 4096 pixels horizontal resolution, I don't know.

[mataus]

Is there any way I can make madVR horizontally fill my 2.40 screen when watching 2.35 material so that I don't have the black bars to the left and right? I've been experimenting in 'Zoom control' section with 'zoom small black bars away' but can't seem to get it to work. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

[Sunspark]

Isn't your player's zoom set for "touch from inside"?

[mataus]

Isn't your player's zoom set for "touch from inside"?

Yes it is. I use MPC-HC

[Siso]

Yes it is. I use MPC-HC

Try "touch window from outside", without madvr black bars detection options.

[JarrettH]

Can madvr use NVIDIA image scaling (NIS)? I'm talking about the one I see in the control panel. I'm sure it's come up in the thread, just hard to search for results. Is it superior? Inferior? Only meant for games? Thanks

[huhn]

mpcVR can and it is horrible bad.