madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[MysteryX]

x64 applications tend to operate slightly faster than x86 applications especially for computation-intensive applications.

But since the bottleneck is the GPU, would that make any difference in this case?

[huhn]

x64 applications tend to operate slightly faster than x86 applications especially for computation-intensive applications.

But since the bottleneck is the GPU, would that make any difference in this case?

no real difference for the GPU.

[MysteryX]

I reverted back to my previous LeeKM drivers. Here's what happens with the TP and TS video files.

With latest AMD driver, it lags with or without SVP.

With LeeKM driver...
- It lags on 1080p output only when SVP is enabled
- On laptop 768p display, it plays properly with madVR+SVP with a rendering time of 10ms

[ryrynz]

madvr is 32 bit only (atm) and thus will only work with 32 bit software. maybe in the future. maybe.

Not just maybe, it's a certainty but it will happen close to the 1.0 release which could still be a few years away. Madshi's maintained he wants his planned features out the door first.

I too am looking forward to a 64 bit video playback chain with MadVR but I'd rather have new scalers and such first :)

[MysteryX]

Question. Would it be possible for madVR+SVP to provide even better performance by using the CPU on top of the GPU? A quad-core i7 can do quite a lot of work.

[nevcairiel]

Once you go into image processing, you would be surprised how slow a CPU can suddenly feel.

[MysteryX]

Does madVR count SVP in its processing time?

Because when I ran SVP without hardware acceleration, I found videos would lag with a rendering time of 10ms on 760p display.

If SVP isn't included, then that might explain why 1080p videos require 8ms processing to play properly as HD videos require more work by SVP.

[huhn]

decoder queues are not full your decoder/filter can't handle the file.


split is a copyback split is normally not used on amd so it looks like it is using your igpu.
the second screen show a deinterlaced video. I don't know if SVP can handle intrerlaced videos.

yet again it sound more like a CPU problem.

[Asmodian]

Does madVR count SVP in its processing time?

No, madVR's stats are only for madVR. It can only measure the actions it performs.

Edit: SVP happens before madVR, if madVR's queues are full then all that matters is madVR's stats. If madVR's queues are not full then something is too slow before it.

[BetA13]

well, well...

dat new Nvidia DSR feature works nicely with Mpchc and Madvr...The quality is quite nice on top of the madvr processing stuff, BUT, its toooo demanding haha (gtx670)... also its a bit blurry with it on @ 3200x2400..(only have 4:3 monitor to test atm)...

still, when looking at it again, for a Movie size of 720x404, the final result is , well, pretty amazing to say the least, mind, i have a little lumasharpen enabled also...what u can see pretty good in the top left corner where the symbol is..need to test it without lumasharpen (shaderbased)
or is it?

screen:
http://abload.de/thumb/mpchc2014101122022094cezf2.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=mpchc2014101122022094cezf2.jpg)


NNEDI3 (imageDoubling) is still superior if it comes to teh Image Quality, even at 16 Neurons, thats what i think, But this also comes with a more demanding performance price...

hmmmm,, choices, choices, choices.....

[mindz]

Hi,

Does madVR support DXVA2 native, or only CB? Im using LAV video filters and ffdshow raw video filter so I can use SVP. Whenever i choose dxva2 native it shows avcodec as active decoder...

[huhn]

Hi,

Does madVR support DXVA2 native, or only CB? Im using LAV video filters and ffdshow raw video filter so I can use SVP. Whenever i choose dxva2 native it shows avcodec as active decoder...

madVR can use dxva native. but ffdshow/SVP doesn't work with dxva native. so madVR nothing to do with your problem.

[MysteryX]

SVP has no problem with interlaced videos. This one plays perfectly fine, and I believe it is interlaced.

Video: Xvid 1024x576 59.94fps 7805kbps [V: mpeg4 advanced simple profile, yuv420p, 1024x576, 7805 kb/s]

[huhn]

i highly doubt a video with that resolution is interlaced.

and it should be totally impossible to motion interpolate a interlaced frame.

[Asmodian]

Video: Xvid 1024x576 59.94fps 7805kbps [V: mpeg4 advanced simple profile, yuv420p, 1024x576, 7805 kb/s]

The p is for progressive.

i highly doubt a video with that resolution is interlaced.

and it should be totally impossible to motion interpolate a interlaced frame.

You can motion interpolate an interlaced frame by deinterlacing it and motion interpolating that. :p

[huhn]

The p is for progressive.

it's always yuv420p. when a interlaced stream is decoded. it is output as a waved frame so it is kind of "progressive".

this is the short media info from a TV recording
Video: MPEG2 Video 1440x1080 (16:9) 29.97fps [V: mpeg2 main, yuv420p, 1440x1080]

so in short it didn't say us anything. the fact the file is 59.94fps says us it is for sure not interlaced that would be 120 hz after deinerlacing that's not official support by anything.

[nevcairiel]

The "p" is for planar, not progressive. It means that the native decoder format is 3 individual color planes (Y + Cb + Cr). The opposite would be packed or interleaved, like YUY2 (or even RGB) where all three components are in one plane.
In short, it doesn't really say anything useful for you.

[Asmodian]

Ah really? Wow I have been reading that wrong for a long time. I assume the "i" is for interleaved instead of interlaced too, it is funny how they share the same initials, very confusing. :o

Also end users don't care if it is packed or planer, why report it? ;)

This is from SVP isn't it? I don't see any descriptions like that in madVR.

[e-t172]

Also end users don't care if it is packed or planer, why report it? ;)

Huh? "yuv420p" is a description of the colorspace. People who care about the colorspace might also care about whether its planar or packed (e.g. for performance-related reasons).

[MysteryX]

mmm you may be right it's not interlaced. I might *actually* be a 60fps video! First time I see that. SVP says 1:1 ratio, and it does play pretty smoothly with SVP off.

[StinDaWg]

This may have been answered before but I can't seem to find it. Is there any picture quality difference in using software decoding vs dxva2 vs dxva2 copyback? I have been using software decoding because I know overall that gives you the least issues with playback, but some of the videos I have are pushing 50-65% cpu. dxva2 is about 10% and MPC-HC uses about 500 MB less ram. Is there any reason why I should not just use dxva2 for lower cpu/ram usage and system temps?

If there is no PQ loss by using dxva2 decoding then I'll just switch to that. Max render times (5s) seem to be lower too with less spikes that cause random frame drops.

[huhn]

there is no quality difference.
with good GPU you can easily use more power with dxva than software decoding.

dxva cp adds more load to the gpu because it has to upload -> decode -> download -> upload not just upload

[StinDaWg]

there is no quality difference.
Has this always been the case? I remember specifically people saying years ago you should use software decoding, because dxva2 can cause macroblocking and other artifacts to appear that aren't in the picture.

[huhn]

things like this happens when the level check or things like this are disabled and the dxva decoder tries to decode something it can't decode.

don't forget DXVA is limited. but lavfilter will fallback to software decoding.

[Anime Viewer]

Is there any picture quality difference in using software decoding vs dxva2 vs dxva2 copyback? I have been using software decoding because I know overall that gives you the least issues with playback, but some of the videos I have are pushing 50-65% cpu. Is there any reason why I should not just use dxva2 for lower cpu/ram usage and system temps?

If there is no PQ loss by using dxva2 decoding then I'll just switch to that. Max render times (5s) seem to be lower too with less spikes that cause random frame drops.

Are you referring to setting DXVA2 in madVR for Image Upscaling and/or Image Downscaling, or are you referring to setting DXVA2 in LAV Video Decoders under Hardware Acceleration?

Depending on what GPU you are using you may see pixelation occur in some types of video if you have it set for hardware acceleration in LAV. Try the video clips at the pages linked below. If you encounter pixelation in the video(s) during playback (like shown in the screen shots on both pages) then you're best off disabling DXVA2 and letting the software decode. If on the other hand you don't see pixelation then you could leave DXVA2 enabled.

If you set DXVA2 (for image upscaling) in madVR it will override any NNEDI3 settings you may have enabled, so if you want to use NNEDI3 then you should not select DXVA2 (for image upscaling) in madVR.

Test video 1:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/527075/geforce-drivers/hardware-acceleration-decoding-issue/1/

Test video 2:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/616833/?comment=4188613

Here is an article with positives and negatives of hardware acceleration:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/video-transcoding-amd-app-nvidia-cuda-intel-quicksync,2839-13.html

[vivan]

Are you referring to setting DXVA2 in madVR for Image Upscaling and/or Image Downscaling, or are you referring to setting DXVA2 in LAV Video Decoders under Hardware Acceleration?He mentioned "decoding" 3 times.

Depending on what GPU you are using you may see pixelation occur in some types of video if you have it set for hardware acceleration in LAV. Try the video clips at the pages linked below. If you encounter pixelation in the video(s) during playback (like shown in the screen shots on both pages) then you're best off disabling DXVA2 and letting the software decode. If on the other hand you don't see pixelation then you could leave DXVA2 enabled.It happens only on really weird korean... encodes. And it's not pixelation, it's really noticeable corruption. There's no need to switch to software if you don't watch stuff from that source.

Here is an article with positives and negatives of hardware acceleration:... transcoding? I don't even.

[fallengt]

Which settings make more sense?
- HDMI level low (on TV) - RGB pixel format limited (video card) - Madvr setting 0-255 PC level.
or:
- HDMI level normal-full which is 0-255 (on TV) - RGB pixel format full range PC level ( video card) - Madvr setting 0-255

Correct me if I'm wrong but I assume both settings are almost identical.

[huhn]

the level output is the same.
but all 0-255 is better less conversation and madVR does is in very high bit deep with dither.

[fallengt]

the level output is the same.
but all 0-255 is better less conversation and madVR does is in very high bit deep with dither.
- Visually, do we notice the difference?
- Say if your tv doesn't have 0-255 output, just limited range. Should I let Madvr do the conversation (16-235) or video card?

[huhn]

- Visually, do we notice the difference?
- Say if your tv doesn't have 0-255 output, just limited range. Should I let Madvr do the conversation (16-235) or video card?

it can add banding.

with a TV that can't do full range you can limited madVR to 16-235 and set your GPU to unlimited this way nothing is extra converted by the gpu but only madVR has the right levels.
this is recommend for a limited only TV.

[Mustaffi]

Guys i will appreciate if somebody respond this PQ related questions.

1. l have a dilemma with my Panny TV, what you would use if have to select one of this following settings.

A. My Plasma can do RGB 4:4:4 BUT only with video black levels (16-235) in this mode you have to activate the 1080P Pure Direct in order to turn off the 4:2:2 internal downsampling, note that its for use the TV as a PC monitor for video, youtube anime etc, PC Games and desktop will look crushed because the GPU its outputting Full RGB 0-255 levels, the funny thing its that for PC gaming in this TV RGB 4:4:4 should be a Must.

B. an the second, l can get proper Full RGB PC level in the TV if l activate the DVI Complete settings, but, if a do this, the 1080p Pure Direct mode is grayed out and everything that the tv display will be downsample to 4:2:2, this settings allows proper color in Desktop web and gaming, but everything its turn down to 4:2:2 , my questions its if this will be worts to PQ, especially if i wanna do some gaming in the plasma.

Note that if l stay with 4:4:4 i have to put tv levels in madvr settings in order to get good color reproduction, the GPU will always output PC Levels.

l hope you cant help me wtih this setting dilemma.

[huhn]

Note that if l stay with 4:4:4 i have to put tv levels in madvr settings in order to get good color reproduction, the GPU will always output PC Levels.

first of all no known for me known GPU can't output limited range.

just put it in direct mode and send limited range. if this is not possible send YCbCr 4:4:4.

I hope you are aware that using a plasma for desktop or PC games can easily kill it? it depends on the game but the desktop is always deadly.

l hope you cant help me wtih this setting dilemma.
but i'm pretty sure I can.

[fallengt]

first of all no known for me known GPU can't output limited range.


but i'm pretty sure I can.

Yes, definitely some kind of mistake. Try uninstalling video driver and reinstall newest/stablest version.

[ryrynz]

I hope you are aware that using a plasma for desktop or PC games can easily kill it? it depends on the game but the desktop is always deadly.


Quick bit of OT to set this straight.. you won't kill a plasma like that.

You could have possible permanent screen burn in if you don't have appropriate settings enabled and or engage the pixel scrolling feature from time to time, but it should be noticeable long before it becomes a permanent issue..

In saying that this generally became less and less of an issue for plasmas as time went on.

[Mustaffi]

Thanks for the replays.

As a note said that the plasma it's a secondary monitor mainly for movies or tv shows.

As for the settings after doing some testing I think that the best for PQ it's second option, I don't t know if I actually seeing any difference when the tv downsample to 4:2:2. But the image and black are awesome, it's also show perfect clipping with the avs black test (17 to 25 flash)

When I use Limited with the tv and limited with madvr the image it's too washed out, off course I can see Good detail in black but it's like the colour accuracy it's getting fucked up, too plane for my taste and some black are like a soft gray...

This option also past the video black clipping test as 17-25 flash but I repeat color it's no so accuretay.

This only happen in PC when use the limited option, when a use a video console (limited option only) the colors and blacks it's still pretty good with the good blacks and satured natural colors that we all love of the plasma.

[huhn]

you can't set both to limited.

just set the gpu to limited and madVR to unlimited.

there is only one case where you should change the madVR level.

[Asmodian]

It is simple to understand once you realize the GPU's "limited" option doesn't pass limited video untouched, it simply assumes the video is full range and compresses it. This is why it looks washed out when both are set to limited; you get a double full range to limited conversion, once by madVR and once by the GPU.

[Mustaffi]

As a said before the plasma its a second monitor, my main its a full pc monitor 1440p connected by displayport, its also my main gaming setup so l cant set GPU to limited because this will crush the colours in games, webs etc.

So l should stick with the second option? GPU Unlimited and TV Unlimited using a DVI cable( in orden to get the Full Option).

The main problem its the 4:2:2 downsample, its bad for movies? l will notice if i decide to do son gaming in the couch?.

i read in a revew that the 4:2:2 in my panny use a full-range YCbCr internally conversion, so its actually has to be pretty good becasue l get al the range.

[huhn]

YCbCr is always send limited and all TV convert this to unlimited.

you can change the output range for each display so one display with unlimited and one with limited is possible and nothing special.

[raymondjpg]

That along with a keyboard shortcut to show the seekbar and I'd be happy.. at least until I can get the devs of MPC to add in all the other stuff (codec info etc) for display without having to minimize the screen and leave exclusive mode, which will avoid you having to add the other stuff in, thanks.
+1. A keyboard shortcut to show/toggle the seekbar would be really useful.

[StinDaWg]

What would cause (5s) max render times to jump up to the 200+ range? I don't know why, but this has been happening a lot lately and it's causing dropped frames. My cpu and gpu load are low when it happens, I don't get it. I can be watching a movie and render times are 6 ms, then all of a sudden 5s max render time will go up to the hundreds.

I've tried every combination of settings, cpu/gpu decoding, more/less present frames. Overclocking/underclocking my gpu. Nothing solves it.

[huhn]

something is your system uses the gpu in the background.

[namaiki]

Did you try disable DXVA native/copy-back video decode?

What is your hardware/software setup?

[michkrol]

What would cause (5s) max render times to jump up to the 200+ range? I don't know why, but this has been happening a lot lately and it's causing dropped frames. My cpu and gpu load are low when it happens, I don't get it. I can be watching a movie and render times are 6 ms, then all of a sudden 5s max render time will go up to the hundreds.

I've tried every combination of settings, cpu/gpu decoding, more/less present frames. Overclocking/underclocking my gpu. Nothing solves it.

Check in OSD (CTRL+J) what queues are empty (first) when this happens.
Your system specs might help, especially drivers version. Update your codecs, player and drivers?
Have you checked your GPU clock (frequency) while playing videos? It might be some power saving mode not working properly. Use GPU-Z or similar tool to check.
Are you using subs? Some subtitle filters might cause performance issues. Check the filters list to make sure nothing unnecessary is loaded.

[Anime Viewer]

For a long time I've seen (reported in OSD as opposed to visual) occasional presentation glitches (1 every few seconds) in madVR when playing video, and I'd tried a lot of what was mentioned on the board with no resolution. Today I was experimenting with comparisons between the MPC+madVR combination vs MediaPlayerDotNet (which doesn't report presentation glitches when playing the same videos). Among differences between the two in their standard setups are queue settings and Jinc taps (MP.Net uses 4 by default with 6 and 8 also options. madVR on the other hand uses 3 by default and offers 4, and 8 as other options). I found simply changing Jinc Image Upscaling from 3 to 4 taps completely eliminated the presentation glitches. (You don't need to bother changing the Chroma Jinc taps number if you're using Jinc there too as the Image Upscaling change resolves the problem). Anyone who is experiencing presentation glitches in madVR, is using Jinc, and hasn't found a solution with other setting changes may benefit from giving it a try.

[ryrynz]

Could be worth submitting that into the bug tracker.

[StinDaWg]

something is your system uses the gpu in the background.
I don't think so.

Did you try disable DXVA native/copy-back video decode?

What is your hardware/software setup?
Ya, as I said I've tried software, dxva2, and dxva2 copyback, same thing happens.

I have an Intel G1620 cpu, HD7850 gpu, 8GB ram, Windows 8.1. Using latest table MPC-HC. AMD 13.12 drivers.

This hasn't always been happening. Seems like I've really started to notice it in the past couple of weeks.

Check in OSD (CTRL+J) what queues are empty (first) when this happens.
Your system specs might help, especially drivers version. Update your codecs, player and drivers?
Have you checked your GPU clock (frequency) while playing videos? It might be some power saving mode not working properly. Use GPU-Z or similar tool to check.
Are you using subs? Some subtitle filters might cause performance issues. Check the filters list to make sure nothing unnecessary is loaded.
Decoding, upload, and render queues all drop about 10 lower and then present queue goes from full straight to 0. Not using subtitles, gpu clock is fine. I've tried higher/lower queues and it makes no difference.

I'm going to mess with the flush gpu settings next and see if that makes any difference. Also going to try ReClock.

[huhn]

just tested it.

when your Pc can't handle the file and it can't be decoded fast enough rendertimes sky rocket. i have to try that you didn't know that and doesn't make 100% sense to me. so if a file can't be deocded fast enough you can see high rendertimes even through there os no GPU or madVR problem at all.

are you sure the type of files you play work with DXVA (amd is very limited with DXVA) and your cpu can handle them for 100 %?

do you use nnedi3? if yes how many ram did you have and is it dual channel?

[StinDaWg]

just tested it.

when your Pc can't handle the file and it can't be decoded fast enough rendertimes sky rocket. i have to try that you didn't know that and doesn't make 100% sense to me. so if a file can't be deocded fast enough you can see high rendertimes even through there os no GPU or madVR problem at all.

are you sure the type of files you play work with DXVA (amd is very limited with DXVA) and your cpu can handle them for 100 %?

do you use nnedi3? if yes how many ram did you have and is it dual channel?
Frames drop whether I'm using dxva or not (I usually use software decoding). G1620 has no problem with that. 15-20% cpu for 720p, 30-40% cpu for blu-ray remuxes. 8GB dual channel ram. Ya I use nnedi3, but frames still drop on 1080p content. When I see it drop frames I immediately look at the task manager and msi afterburner, there are no spikes in cpu or gpu, ram, HDD, or anything else. I'm completely baffled as to why this is happening. I can play the same files in XBMC without issue.

To be clear I'm not getting constant stuttering. Just frame drops as often as every couple of minutes, to a few times an hour. I just played a movie while I was making dinner. When I came back to it a half hour later there were 8 dropped frames. I watched a movie the other night and there were 3 noticeable instances of stutter over a 1.5 hour period.

Edit: Just started playing a 1080p23.976 blu-ray mkv while I walked into another room. Came back 10 minutes later and had no dropped frames but 14 repeated frames.

[fluffy01]

Have you checked your DPC latency? If you get big spikes there, you get choppy playback no matter how much free CPU and GPU you have.
And perhaps XBMC is better at handling big spikes in DPC than your madVR setup is.
You can check your DPC latency with this program (http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml).