madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[tp4tissue]

you can load different LUT using profiles.

I understand that, but what I mean is , if I am using HDR->SDR Shader, outputing SDR.

Does my Lut have to be created differently , as in the setting photo in my previous post. by setting the source colorspace to rec2020,


OR does madvr shader output HDR->SDR in Rec709

[huhn]

no it doesn't this selection only depends on your screens settings.

if your screen only runs in bt 709 mode no point in making a bigger 3D LUT.

[tp4tissue]

no it doesn't this selection only depends on your screens settings.

if your screen only runs in bt 709 mode no point in making a bigger 3D LUT.

Well the screen is ever so slightly wider than 709.

My question is whether all the lut in the calibration tab are treated the same way, and indifferent to source colorspace ?

[madjock]

I don't understand why you think something may be going wrong.

Whatever is happening isn't some trick that's eating your CPU cycles for no reason. However many CPU cycles is taken, that's the correct amount necessary to do what you've asked the computer to do.

There is no process virus here stealing CPU cycles.

Different videos, Different SEGMENT of the SAME VIDEO, different CPUs, different Graphics cards will ALL TOGETHER, exhibit Different quantities of processing consumption, You're not comparing apples to apples.

Between fullscreen and windowed, full screen scales luma through ngu, windowed does not.

As for GPU clock Not going up higher, I don't think it needs to, because that is a very low bitrate file and you're not upscaling it by very much.

For the CPU load change, Check your cpu in HWmonitor, I'm not sure, but see if all cores are clocked to the same frequency, maybe on the windowed smaller screen mode, some cores are clocked lower, so it represents higher % of utilization during that moment.

I don't think its that simple, there is something not setup right or something else. When I run MPC-BE I see one instance running and under that whatever video that is playing in task manager.

His picture shows MPC-HC and two instances of madVR for some reason.

https://postimg.cc/Js7C5n6c

EDIT : Ah the only way I could see madVR in task manager was to have the settings open and be playing a video, unsure how you can have two instances of that, but try closing down the settings as that may be eating up CPU cycles with a video playing ?

I also don't see madVR running on the screen though, so just set fire to the computer. :)

[janos666]

But this tech vastly surpasses OLED's capabilities, because it will EVENTUALLY allow for Backlight blink motion blur reduction. (ULMB)

I don't see how. The OLED still wins in contrast ratio (1000/1000000=0.001 is roughly what you got from a fresh new or tweaked 9G Poneer Kuro, which is excellent but the OLED black is still noticably darker) and the peak white is roughly the same as well (well, yeah, the LG OLED cheats with the W sub-pixel but they have a few years to improve, the top-emission panels might reach almost 1000 nit with RGB - especially if they drop the W pixel and increase the RGB sizes). The LG panels will run at 240Hz this year which means 25% duty cycle is now possible (although I am not sure how usable because ABL already starts kicking in around 80 nit on fullscreen 100% white screen if you compensate for the 50/50% BFI with the OLED Light control and HDR is always cut to 50% light output with BFI - but pretty much the same applies to the LCD in HDR and roughly the same in SDR). And then the viewing angle distortion of LCD remains (well, of course the OLED burn-in remains there as well).

[huhn]

Well the screen is ever so slightly wider than 709.

My question is whether all the lut in the calibration tab are treated the same way, and indifferent to source colorspace ?

the source colorspace is supposed to match madVR settings. it has to how else should this ever work. just giving madVR a BT 2020 3D LUt and load it as b 709 what'S the point of this?

i mean you are doing this calibration stuff for a while know. just try to think why an option is even there.

OR does madvr shader output HDR->SDR in Rec709
i'm simply at a lost of word when i read this. why should it even support BT 2020 3D LUT way before HDR was a spec.

just take a step back and think.

if your screen has a meaningfully bigger colorsavce then BT 709 add a DCI P3 3D LUT. madVR will do the rest this option to load aDCI P3 3D LUT is not for fun in there and a DCI P3 3D LUT is defined by the source colorspace.

[tp4tissue]

I don't think its that simple, there is something not setup right or something else. When I run MPC-BE I see one instance running and under that whatever video that is playing in task manager.

His picture shows MPC-HC and two instances of madVR for some reason.

https://postimg.cc/Js7C5n6c

EDIT : Ah the only way I could see madVR in task manager was to have the settings open and be playing a video, unsure how you can have two instances of that, but try closing down the settings as that may be eating up CPU cycles with a video playing ?

I also don't see madVR running on the screen though, so just set fire to the computer. :)

mine shows 3 processes too.

[tp4tissue]

the source colorspace is supposed to match madVR settings. it has to how else should this ever work. just giving madVR a BT 2020 3D LUt and load it as b 709 what'S the point of this?

i mean you are doing this calibration stuff for a while know. just try to think why an option is even there.


i'm simply at a lost of word when i read this. why should it even support BT 2020 3D LUT way before HDR was a spec.

just take a step back and think.

if your screen has a meaningfully bigger colorsavce then BT 709 add a DCI P3 3D LUT. madVR will do the rest this option to load aDCI P3 3D LUT is not for fun in there and a DCI P3 3D LUT is defined by the source colorspace.


You're assuming too many things

The madvr calibration boxes has one for rec2020 and one for rec 709.

The dispcal lut output has a source colorspace box for rec2020 and rec709.

I can't assume what madvr may require a different setting from dispcal when using the different boxes.

So , THAT'S WHY I ASK, does madvr expect a different generation setting for a lut put into those different boxes.

This is perfectly reasonable on my end.

[alexnt]

I uninstalled both mpc hc & be last night and madvr, too.
I also deleted madvr's folder, rebooted and then I run a registry cleaning. I also deleted mpc's folder left in program files.

I reinstalled mpc and downloaded another(older version 91.4) of madvr and extracted the folder in another drive(c: - had it on d: ).

When I started playing a movie and opened madvr settings I noticed that my settings where there(all of them, even the hd profiles in scaling) but madvr folder didn't have "settings.bin" when I extected it. As I understand it retrieves previous settings and maybe that is the problem. Is there in other location that madvr creates folders and profiles, so if I clean them will solve the problem.

I don't believe what is happening is normal. I said before that there is not such issue with my brothers rig with 4670k and 660ti.
Gpu does all the rendering and so cpu drops clocks.
I have a 4690k and r9 290 and I know(because I have seen it) that madvr did't behave with the same way in the past.

[madjock]

I uninstalled both mpc hc & be last night and madvr, too.
I also deleted madvr's folder, rebooted and then I run a registry cleaning. I also deleted mpc's folder left in program files.

I reinstalled mpc and downloaded another(older version 91.4) of madvr and extracted the folder in another drive(c: - had it on d: ).

When I started playing a movie and opened madvr settings I noticed that my settings where there(all of them, even the hd profiles in scaling) but madvr folder didn't have "settings.bin" when I extected it. As I understand it retrieves previous settings and maybe that is the problem. Is there in other location that madvr creates folders and profiles, so if I clean them will solve the problem.

I don't believe what is happening is normal. I said before that there is not such issue with my brothers rig with 4670k and 660ti.
Gpu does all the rendering and so cpu drops clocks.
I have a 4690k and r9 290 and I know(because I have seen it) that madvr did't behave with the same way in the past.

There is a registry entry but cant remember off the top of my head, but restore default settings will take it all back to default which is in the same folder.

Have you tried using MPC-HCs default renderer before madVR to see if the CPU spikes, as it maybe due to MPC rather than madVR ?

EDIT : https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1842150#post1842150

[alexnt]

There is a registry entry but cant remember off the top of my head, but restore default settings will take it all back to default which is in the same folder.

Have you tried using MPC-HCs default renderer before madVR to see if the CPU spikes, as it maybe due to MPC rather than madVR ?

EDIT : https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1842150#post1842150

I deleted the key and I will test mpc without madvr when I get home. I cannot test via remote desktop right now.

EDIT: Do you believe that I have to uninstall lav filters, too?
I also use Codec Tweak Tool for wmc. Does it affect mpc in any way?

[madjock]

I deleted the key and I will test mpc without madvr when I get home. I cannot test via remote desktop right now.

EDIT: Do you believe that I have to uninstall lav filters, too?
I also use Codec Tweak Tool for wmc. Does it affect mpc in any way?

Unsure tbh, I would wipe it all and do one thing at a time, depends how much it bothers you.

Theres not many people chiming in, and I have not seen your LAV settings or madVR settings as such, so its tricky to diagnose if indeed it is a problem as can be seen others are saying its not.

If it was all working fine before, only you will know if you changed anything, drivers, settings and the likes, so as I said its a tricky one to diagnose.

As I said before the only instance I see madVR in task manager is when I have the settings open, did you try playing a video with it closed.

EDIT : Thats actually not true, I see two instances of madVR with a movie running but not underneath MPC-BE

[alexnt]

Unsure tbh, I would wipe it all and do one thing at a time, depends how much it bothers you.

Theres not many people chiming in, and I have not seen your LAV settings or madVR settings as such, so its tricky to diagnose if indeed it is a problem as can be seen others are saying its not.

If it was all working fine before, only you will know if you changed anything, drivers, settings and the likes, so as I said its a tricky one to diagnose.

As I said before the only instance I see madVR in task manager is when I have the settings open, did you try playing a video with it closed.

lav settings:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1866165#post1866165

I will take a madvr screenshot when I install it and set it as I had before i remove it.

madvr settings open automatically in tray when I play a video, do you mean to close it from tray?

I removed amd drivers, yesterday, with ddu and installed older drivers but nothing changed.

can you post a screenshot of mpc internal filters?

[madjock]

lav settings:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1866165#post1866165

I will take a madvr screenshot when I install it and set it as I had before i remove it.

madvr settings open automatically in tray when I play a video, do you mean to close it from tray?

I removed amd drivers, yesterday, with ddu and installed older drivers but nothing changed.

can you post a screenshot of mpc internal filters?

Ah ok, well the majority are using D3D11 and native, as in don't select the video card in the box, can't see that affecting the CPU though. Still don't get the madVR bit, its maybe that having the settings open when madVR is getting played as it on screen with the settings, but that could be a red herring, I also don't see the settings showing on your screen and usually it sitts on top of everything.

I am sort of out of ideas tbh, I still think its MPC-HC or BE that is using the CPU, and maybe it just does on your system for whatever reason. or something I am not aware about.

When you say load on the CPU is it constant ? As I said don't go just by the multipliers as mine stays quite high doing the littlest thing.

EDIT : I was getting about 6% max on my CPU and madVR did show up this time under BE whilst playing a video, I give up. :)

[clsid]

AMD r9 290 does not support hardware acceleration of HEVC/H.265, nor does it do 4K H.264. So that's the simple reason for high CPU usage.

To see whether acceleration is active, you should look at the settings of an active instance of LAV Video decoder. Accessing it either through its systray icon, or through menu>play>filters in MPC.

DirectShow filters are loaded by the player similar as a DLL. They do not run as a separate process. Madvr subprocesses in task manager are not the renderer itself, but helper processes. For example for restoring refreshrate after closing player.

[madjock]

amd r9 290 does not support hardware acceleration of hevc/h.265, nor does it do 4k h.264. So that's the simple reason for high cpu usage.

doh !

[huhn]

restore default settings.bat

this resets madVR including the registry you can find it in the madVR folder.
next you are playing an HEVC file with an R9 200 series card? then the CPU has to do the work this GPU doesn't support HEVC. the video has to be decoded that'S not madVR job.

there are settings that can use quite a lot of CPU cycles.one would be black bar detection.

and don't recommend DXVA native with it madVR can't deal with interlaced content at all. as long as this isn't fixed it shouldn't be blindly recommended to user if there is an alternative that works with all kind of normal content.

[madjock]

and don't recommend DXVA native with it madVR can't deal with interlaced content at all. as long as this isn't fixed it shouldn't be blindly recommended to user if there is an alternative that works with all kind of normal content.


You talking to me ? I never recommended DVXA thats what he had.

[huhn]

i messed up it's D3D11 native that can't deal with intelranced content.

DXVA is "fine" at least for interlanced content

[madjock]

i messed up it's D3D11 native that can't deal with intelranced content.

DXVA is "fine" at least for interlanced content

Ah ok, well I guess thats where all these guides and comments mess things up, as usually its the first thing people recommend.

[alexnt]

So which decoder should I use?

I 'm talking about AVC files, I only download a sample of HEVC file.

Can someone post a screenshot of mpc->options->internal filters?

[clsid]

DXVA2 copy-back

Just enable all internal filters.

[huhn]

Ah ok, well I guess thats where all these guides and comments mess things up, as usually its the first thing people recommend.

i know and will have a bright future one day but that day isn't here yet and there is nothing nev can do about the issue is on madVR side.

DXVA copyback or D3D11 copyback whatever works best for you.

So which decoder should I use?

I 'm talking about AVC files, I only download a sample of HEVC file.

Can someone post a screenshot of mpc->options->internal filters?
the mpc->option->internal filter should be left at default default settings are default for a reason.

there is an rumour that intel HD 4600 can do HEVC 8 bit which should be rarely of any use but still.

so D3D11 copyback with HD 4600 should give you the most powerful decoder on your system.

[madjock]

So which decoder should I use?

I 'm talking about AVC files, I only download a sample of HEVC file.

Can someone post a screenshot of mpc->options->internal filters?

Yeah lets not talk about this part...

"I have a 4690k and r9 290 and I know(because I have seen it) that madvr did't behave with the same way in the past."

:thanks:

[alexnt]

i know and will have a bright future one day but that day isn't here yet and there is nothing nev can do about the issue is on madVR side.

DXVA copyback or D3D11 copyback whatever works best for you.


the mpc->option->internal filter should be left at default default settings are default for a reason.

there is an rumour that intel HD 4600 can do HEVC 8 bit which should be rarely of any use but still.

so D3D11 copyback with HD 4600 should give you the most powerful decoder on your system.

Asked because I have seen some guides that disable everything in transformation filters part.

[huhn]

the internet is a wild place and there are reason to do that i even have disabled them myself.
but and that important it there is no reason todo that if you are not playing around with test/beta version and testing other stuff.

the internal lavfilter version is fine. if there is a major change you can count on clsid that he will release a new mpc-hc version that is updated.

[clsid]

Pretty much every guide out there is full of bad advice.

As a rule of thumb:
Don't change any default settings unless you understand what a setting does and why changing it makes things better for you.

[el Filou]

@alexnt If it still happens after the whole reinstall and reset settings, post a screenshot of Task Manager's 'details' tab sorted by CPU usage.
You can also get Process Explorer from the Windows SysInternals tools suite to get more details

[madjock]

@alexnt If it still happens after the whole reinstall and reset settings, post a screenshot of Task Manager's 'details' tab sorted by CPU usage.
You can also get Process Explorer from the Windows SysInternals tools suite to get more details

I think we know why the CPU is so active now :o

AMD r9 290 does not support hardware acceleration of HEVC/H.265, nor does it do 4K H.264. So that's the simple reason for high CPU usage.
.

[alexnt]

OK guys I believe I found the culprit. It was that key in registry.
Everything works as intended though I tested through remote desktop. I told you that it was not a normal behavior.
Thank you all for your time. :):)

Why the uninstaller doesn't remove that key???

[huhn]

would you risk deleting advances profiles from user just by installing the software? some have advanced uninstall options for that but i would leave it there.

and the real way to reset setting isn't uninstalling software it is using the reset option.

[alexnt]

would you risk deleting advances profiles from user just by installing the software? some have advanced uninstall options for that but i would leave it there.

and the real way to reset setting isn't uninstalling software it is using the reset option.

reset didn't do the job

[madjock]

reset didn't do the job

Surely your CPU usage will still be the same as your card does not decode these files, and thats what your original query was ?

[alexnt]

No the cpu usage is not the same as I don't have hevc files. My movies are avc except for that hevc sample I downloaded yesterday for testing purposes. I ll upload a video proof later.

[tp4tissue]

restore default settings.bat

this resets madVR including the registry you can find it in the madVR folder.
next you are playing an HEVC file with an R9 200 series card? then the CPU has to do the work this GPU doesn't support HEVC. the video has to be decoded that'S not madVR job.

there are settings that can use quite a lot of CPU cycles.one would be black bar detection.

and don't recommend DXVA native with it madVR can't deal with interlaced content at all. as long as this isn't fixed it shouldn't be blindly recommended to user if there is an alternative that works with all kind of normal content.

On one of my pcs, the restore setting. bat actually doesn't work. It's weird, and I never figured out why it didn't work ?

I've never moved the directories, so where are these settings stored ?

[tp4tissue]

i know and will have a bright future one day but that day isn't here yet and there is nothing nev can do about the issue is on madVR side.

DXVA copyback or D3D11 copyback whatever works best for you.


the mpc->option->internal filter should be left at default default settings are default for a reason.

there is an rumour that intel HD 4600 can do HEVC 8 bit which should be rarely of any use but still.

so D3D11 copyback with HD 4600 should give you the most powerful decoder on your system.


Wait wait wait,, I thought the Great Huhn, Only recommends DX11. no one dare challenge Great huhn

Under what case does Dxva2 work better than DX11

[madjock]

No the cpu usage is not the same as I don't have hevc files. My movies are avc except for that hevc sample I downloaded yesterday for testing purposes. I ll upload a video proof later.

No its fine I believe you, but it looked like you were playing h.264 files in the screenshots and I thought the card could not decode them, but I just read something that said it can, but still not sure about the CPU.

As long as you are happy thats all that matters :)

[huhn]

reset didn't do the job
did you try it as an admin?
No the cpu usage is not the same as I don't have hevc files. My movies are avc except for that hevc sample I downloaded yesterday for testing purposes. I ll upload a video proof later.
no need for a video proof i already said stuff like blackbar detection can eat CPU cycles which is off by default there are other things too.

Wait wait wait,, I thought the Great Huhn, Only recommends DX11. no one dare challenge Great huhn
why don't you quote me on that with context?
Under what case does Dxva2 work better than DX11
https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1866239&postcount=54917

[alexnt]

No its fine I believe you, but it looked like you were playing h.264 files in the screenshots and I thought the card could not decode them, but I just read something that said it can, but still not sure about the CPU.

As long as you are happy thats all that matters :)

I play 264 indeed, not 265. My gpu can't decode 265 as I was informed today. :o:o

If I have time I will upload this video.

Thanks again for the reg key

[tp4tissue]

did you try it as an admin?

no need for a video proof i already said stuff like blackbar detection can eat CPU cycles which is off by default there are other things too.


why don't you quote me on that with context?

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1866239&postcount=54917

So is DX11, the Go-To under all circumstances outside of Interlaced.

[tp4tissue]

I play 264 indeed, not 265. My gpu can't decode 265 as I was informed today. :o:o

If I have time I will upload this video.

Thanks again for the reg key


Let's take a look at the setting on your brother's PC as well in detail, Playing the same test video

Keep in mind, not all h264 videos work with dxva, most do, some don't

Also, when you make the video, Sideways please.. :D

[huhn]

So is DX11, the Go-To under all circumstances outside of Interlaced.
there are so many circumstances no.

the saves is DXVA copyback for madVR it doesn't internally harm quality and is fast enough for most PCs.

[tp4tissue]

there are so many circumstances no.

the saves is DXVA copyback for madVR it doesn't internally harm quality and is fast enough for most PCs.

Should we create a diagram for which one to pick ?

Also highlighting the advantages of each ?

What are the advantages for DXVA 2 vs DX11 ?

Is there a difference between ATI/ Nvidia implementation ?

[huhn]

this is the madVR thread not a hardware decoder thread.

[el Filou]

It can have an impact on madVR quality/performance though.

Basically (as of current madVR version; 'DXVA' here means either DXVA2 or D3D11):

- as per nevcairiel's advice, Intel QuickSync and NVIDIA CUVID are obsolete compared to DXVA copy-back and are not recommended
- native variants of DXVA prevent use of madVR's IVTC and black bar detection. They also consume a bit more VRAM (few hundreds MBs) which can be an issue if you have a discrete card with very small VRAM and you want a big decoder queue.
- copy-back variants of DXVA are not recommended for iGPUs for performance reasons. They can also have performance problems with discrete GPUs in rare situations like UHD on much older systems.
- DXVA2 native can have chroma quality issues on some GPUs
- D3D11 native prevents using hardware deinterlacing
- D3D11 copy-back is slower than DXVA2 copy-back and has no quality advantages, so you have no reason to use it really
- D3D11 native is slightly faster than DXVA2 native, and doesn't have the chroma quality issue, so is interesting if you're not using any of: IVTC, black bar detection, hardware deinterlacing.

- as always, your mileage will vary for compatibility/performance issue with some combinations of software/hardware.

[iSeries]

For me the only drawback for D3D11 native is no hardware deinterlacing (and even then it's only a minor drawback). What would be useful is if in LAV you could set a fallback decoder for interlaced content, but that's not really anything to do with madVR.

[Grimsdyke]

Hi Guys, I am slowly entering the 4k/UHD world and I have noticed something strange - but maybe it is a known problem and the reason why I am the only one here on Intel :confused:
Here is the problem:
When I play a 4k-file that has no black bars and change something in MadVR like target nits, etc. I see an immediate effect !!
But on files with black bars nothing changes - no matter what setting I test !! The only setting that has an effect is (de-)activating "output video in HDR format".

If this not known yet could someone please alert madshi over at AVS because I don't have an account there. Thanks !!

[alexnt]

As promised and sideways... ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/khfijawkkhnu228/VID_20190220_204624.mp4?dl=0

[tp4tissue]

As promised and sideways... ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/khfijawkkhnu228/VID_20190220_204624.mp4?dl=0


Check your setting under Windows Power OPtions.

You might've set it to High performance

Try setting it to Balanced and see if the CPU will down clock. < in advanced setting make sure minimum cpu speed is set to 5% >

But in either case, even if it downclocks, it's using the same quantity of resources.

[alexnt]

Check your setting under Windows Power OPtions.

You might've set it to High performance

Try setting it to Balanced and see if the CPU will down clock. < in advanced setting make sure minimum cpu speed is set to 5% >

But in either case, even if it downclocks, it's using the same quantity of resources.


No no I m ok now. That was a video proof that there was an issue and now problem is solved. It was a reg key that was left even I uninstalled madvr.