madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[MasterNobody]

I suggest trying a more up to date build of MPC-HC, the latest is r3884 and you're on r3677.
Checked with 1.5.3.3884 (x86) from v0lt's post and it still crashes (so version of MPC-HC doesn't matter).

madshi
Checked older version of MadVR. It is started to crash from v0.68 version (with v0.67 there is no such crash). Also may be this will help to pinpoint where it crashes:
http://i40.tinypic.com/w0m1sl.png

[nx6]

@ALL and @madshi

Ok so after updating MPC-HC and ffdshow to the latest builds as of 12/5/11 I have concluded that the qdvd.dll included within Windows 7 does NOT give Macrovision errors.


Would that be rev4052_20111120 for ffdshow? The most recent build of MPC-HC I'm finding is the third-party one I'm using right now: 1.5.3.3751.

[Pat357]

And in general, you have several display problem with Aero disable. I advise you to keep Aero, and if you have troubles (for example with VSync), just disable Aero for the application.
Where is this setting hidden in Win7 to disable Aero for one application ? Isn't this the same as let MadVR diable Aero and restore it back after you quit MPC-HC ?

[Pat357]

There is nothing wrong with your sample. It works just fine.
It doesn't crash for me neither (Win7 x64), but I see the green line at the right border in MadVR *and* EVR + EVR CP.
Colorspace doen't matter : NV12, YV12 and YUY2, all show the green line.

[SoBizarre]

all show the green line.

And it never struck you the file might have been encoded with this green line? :D

[cyberbeing]

And it never struck you the file might have been encoded with this green line? :D

The green line is caused by the decoder or video renderer padding the video. The line doesn't exist in the source, but it's quite possible the video wasn't encoded properly, causing it to get decoded incorrectly. For example, VDub show the line on the left instead of the right, and Elecard has thick lines on both sides. Basically what's happening is we have a 854x480 mod-2 width video with a display aspect ratio of 16:9 853x480, which very well may be neither 854x480 or 853x480 judging how everything is borking.

[dansrfe]

Would that be rev4052_20111120 for ffdshow? The most recent build of MPC-HC I'm finding is the third-party one I'm using right now: 1.5.3.3751.

The most recent MPC-HC build is 1.5.3.3884: http://xhmikosr.1f0.de/mpc-hc/MPC-HC_r3884_x86.7z

The most recent ffdshow build is svn 4122: http://www.xvidvideo.ru/component/docman/doc_download/7734-ffdshow-tryouts-project-svn-4122-x86-icl12.html

[pirlouy]

Where is this setting hidden in Win7 to disable Aero for one application
right click the.exe > Properties
> Compatibility > Disable desktop composition

Indeed madVR surely uses the same functionality internally.

[HitomiKun]

MadVR does not change to the right displaymode on 30fps material. I tried watching anime that have 24 or 23.976 fps in 72Hz switch and MadVR switched right. But on 30 fps it does not switch to the 120 Hz I set, it switches to 100 Hz that I made for 25 or 50 fps videos. Is that an error? Because Im quite sure that 50 / 100 Hz is a wrong mode for 30 fps. Screenshot:

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/4161/wrong20hz20rate.png (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/48947610/MadVR%20Bug%20Report/Wrong%20Hz%20Rate.png)

And here is the file I used:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/48947610/MadVR%20Bug%20Report/Intro.mkv (11,5 mb)

Please someone tell me if this is a bug or not. If it's a bug then please fix it.

[fastplayer]

^Use thumbnails for screenshots.

[oddball]

MadVR does not change to the right displaymode on 30fps material. I tried watching anime that have 24 or 23.976 fps in 72Hz switch and MadVR switched right. But on 30 fps it does not switch to the 120 Hz I set, it switches to 100 Hz that I made for 25 or 50 fps videos. Is that an error? Because Im quite sure that 50 / 100 Hz is a wrong mode for 30 fps. Screenshot:


Please someone tell me if this is a bug or not. If it's a bug then please fix it.


Had that issue since forever. I have stopped using MadVR for refresh rate changes and gone back to MPC-HC's inbuilt switcher as the new version is MUCH better than the old version at changing refresh rates (Lots more to choose from now).

[Razoola]

Where is this setting hidden in Win7 to disable Aero for one application ? Isn't this the same as let MadVR diable Aero and restore it back after you quit MPC-HC ?

Right click the application and go to properties, then select the compatibility tab. Then check the 'disable desktop composition' box.

Its the same as letting madVR do it but its a little more smooth given aero is disabled as the player starts and not the video.

[MSL_DK]

I get totally confused by everything I read about full RGB, etc. :-P just to be sure :-P Is this the correct settings

ATI Full RGB
MadVR 0-255
Samsung TV HDMI Black Level = Normal (0-255)

EDIT

The reason I ask is that I thought it was best with

ATI full RGB
MadVR 16-235
Samsung TV HDMI Black Level = Low (16-235)

To see 230 to 253 with-level instead of 230 to 234 at 0-255

[dansrfe]

ATI Full RGB
madVR 0-255
Samsung TV HDMI Black Level = Normal (0-255)....

This is right.


ATI full RGB
MadVR 16-235
Samsung TV HDMI Black Level = Low (16-235)

To see 230 to 253 with-level instead of 230 to 234 at 0-255

This is wrong. (based on the collective settings)

[Asmodian]

ATI full RGB
MadVR 16-235
Samsung TV HDMI Black Level = Low (16-235)

To see 230 to 253 with-level instead of 230 to 234 at 0-255

With my LG PK750 plasma TV the picture looks much better (improved shadow detail, black level, and color saturation) if I use:

ATI set to not convert
MadVR 16-235
LG TV HDMI Black Level = Low (16-235)

This is to see 230 at 230 though.

[MSL_DK]

This is wrong. (based on the collective settings)

But it is also correct if I choose

Limited RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4
MadVR 16-235
Samsung TV HDMI Black Level = Normal (16-235)

With my LG PK750 plasma TV the picture looks much better (improved shadow detail, black level, and color saturation) if I use:

ATI set to not convert
MadVR 16-235
LG TV HDMI Black Level = Low (16-235)

This is to see 230 at 230 though.

What do you mean by 'ATI set to not convert'

[HitomiKun]

^Use thumbnails for screenshots.
Did.

Had that issue since forever. I have stopped using MadVR for refresh rate changes and gone back to MPC-HC's inbuilt switcher as the new version is MUCH better than the old version at changing refresh rates (Lots more to choose from now).
I've tried doing the same on MPC-HC now but MPC-HC does not accept a 72 Hz mode. It does not give me the choice to change to 72 Hz. It can be set though if I switch to 72 Hz through my nvidia settings and then add a new "autochange mode". But if I start my 24 fps movie it just switches to 60 Hz instead of the set 72 Hz. That's why I really really need MadVR to do a better job in changing the monitor mode. Please fix my problem mentioned above, I don't like manually switching, it eats so much time.

Edit: I have the newest MPC-HC from the SVN trunk.

Edit 2: I just allowed MadVR to switch to 1080p72 only, nothing else. But it now switches to 72 Hz on every video. May it be 24 fps (for what it was intended to) 30 fps, 50 fps or 60 fps. I tried adding 1080p120 after 1080p72 but it didn't work, it still just switched to 72 Hz. If I set 1080p120 first and then 1080p72, it just stays at 120 Hz and never ever switches. Please fix this problem :/ I just now realized how bugged this is.

[dansrfe]

But it is also correct if I choose

Limited RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4
MadVR 16-235
Samsung TV HDMI Black Level = Normal (16-235)

Yes, this is correct because all settings are 16-235. Setting the chain to limited (16-235) or full (0-255) is based on the user's preference and the type of hardware they have (although there is some debate in favor of using 0-255 if your hardware properly supports/displays it).

Also, "Limited RGB" is the correct setting to use in this scenario. Not YCbCr 4:4:4.

[noee]

Yes, this is correct because all settings are 16-235. Setting the chain to limited (16-235) or full (0-255) is based on the user's preference and the type of hardware they have (although there is some debate in favor of using 0-255 if your hardware properly supports/displays it).

Also, "Limited RGB" is the correct setting to use in this scenario. Not YCbCr 4:4:4.

fwiw, this too is how I finally left things, only way I could get it calibrate and I only use it for Movie/Video playback (secondary monitor):

CCC: Limited RGB
madVR: 16-235
LG HDTV: Black Levels Low (16-235) w/PC input selected (HDMI)

Hands down the most "correct" and best quality picture in this setup.

[Asmodian]

What do you mean by 'ATI set to not convert'

I swear the current drivers for win7 x64 don't have an obvious setting like you show but instead a "simple" set of options. Anyway it is sending 16-235/240 but I don't remember what they call it.

[fairchild]

ATI full RGB
MadVR 16-235
Samsung TV HDMI Black Level = Low (16-235)

To see 230 to 253 with-level instead of 230 to 234 at 0-255

That's what I use on my Panasonic TC-P42S2 plasma.

ATI pixel fromat: Full RGB
MadVR: 16-235
Panasonic plasma TV Black level: Light

This is the only setup that allows me to use the exact calibrated settings which I obtained using my Blu-ray set-top player which is connected through HDMI to my TV and I calibrated using a colorimeter + a blu-ray.

If I use the "supposed" best settings with my setup I have to use a way higher Brightness setting to not get black crush. Obviously I am not going to do this as this will throw my calibration off. (also using the supposed best settings I lose BTB and WTW which through my set-top blu-ray player I retain) The "supposed" best settings are Full RGB pixel format + 0-255 in MadVR + 0-255 or equivalent in your TV/receiver. All setup's are different so only you can know for sure which settings are best for you. ;)

Fyi, the following settings also work for me except I lose BTB and WTW but I can use my calibrated settings. I don't use these setting currently though, since madshi has said that there is no way to know what the ATI driver is doing in RGB Limited mode, so it is probably not the best method. (he did verify that using Full RGB + 16-235 in MadVR is acceptable and the preferred method)

Limited RGB
MadVR 0-255
Panasonic Black level: Light

[dansrfe]

Actually, I'm not sure how CCC processes the levels. I think it just passed whatever setting it was set to and would clip the levels if set to 16-235. If it just merely passes the levels then using 0-255 or 16-235 in CCC shouldn't make a difference in the "actual" output assuming (as I said before) that CCC just "passes" the levels. BUT if you're sending 0-255 from madVR then your only choice is 0-255 in CCC.

Still having said that your whole chain should be entirely limited (16-235) or full (0-255) RGB levels.

@ fairchild

I have a Panasonic Plasma Vierra 65" and I can say that I use 0-255 (Full) RGB for the whole chain. I use an nvidia gpu.

[Andy o]

Re: Limited RGB as pixel format output. The upside is that it will make all levels (desktop, games and video, etc) correct, but the downside is that the video is expanded by madVR and then compressed again to 16-235 by the driver, causing banding (visible in tests, may or may not be in regular video).

Whenever possible pixel format should be left at its native, Full RGB.

[Asmodian]

I swear the current drivers for win7 x64 don't have an obvious setting like you show but instead a "simple" set of options. Anyway it is sending 16-235/240 but I don't remember what they call it.

Actually, after looking at my CCC, I have it set to "Off". If I turn it on I can chose Full (0-255) or Limited (16-235) as a clear and understandable setting. I think I must have updated since I last looked at it. :o

No reason to have the driver mess with it, MadVR knows what it is doing. ;)

[Andy o]

That's not it, that's for EVR video (or madVR using DXVA deinterlacing), and some other renderers. There is another setting called pixel format where you can choose between RGB Limited, RGB Full, YCbCr 4:4:4 and YCbCr 4:2:2. That setting controls final output of everything.

[MSL_DK]

Yes, this is correct because all settings are 16-235. Setting the chain to limited (16-235) or full (0-255) is based on the user's preference and the type of hardware they have (although there is some debate in favor of using 0-255 if your hardware properly supports/displays it).

Also, "Limited RGB" is the correct setting to use in this scenario. Not YCbCr 4:4:4.

Okay... :-P I begin to understand what my GFX, Lav decoder, MadVR and my TV does. But it does not make it less confusing :-) and not at all when I get the best result with

ATI Full RGB
MadVR 16-235
TV 16-235

I see no banding with a Grayscale Ramp from AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration

My Samsung TV UE40D5005 supports full RGB, but I get a much less detailed picture especially around the dark area if I choose these settings and calibrate after them

ATI Full RGB
MadVR 0-255
TV 0-255

[Skwelcha]

glad to hear that so many other people have probs with the output level's tbh... if i set everything to full rgb output i still get very crushed white and black levels, with and without a/v receiver... Even if the receiver claims to get Full RGB Input, there's something wrong and i just cant figure out what...

btw. EVR and VMR.9 are giving out the same color range as madvr when set to 16-235. Does that mean those both renderer are always giving out limited RGB?

[Qaq]

glad to hear that so many other people have probs...Really?if i set everything to full rgb output i still get very crushed white and black levelsIts crushed in video driver (some "dynamic contrast" is enabled) or in TV (Black level doesn't set to High or whatever).EVR and VMR.9 are giving out the same color range as madvr when set to 16-235. Does that mean those both renderer are always giving out limited RGB?No. EVR, VMR output FullRGB by design.

[Skwelcha]

Really?Its crushed in video driver (some "dynamic contrast" is enabled) or in TV (Black level doesn't set to High or whatever).No. EVR, VMR output FullRGB by design.

ok that's weird... why does EVR than behave like madvr when set to 16-235? and i disabled everything in the CCC except deinterlacing and dynamic range which is set to 16-235 like recommended. I tested now "3" different output devices, my old toshiba 42xv635, my philips 46pfl9705h and both with a passthrough over my denon receiver and there are no differences... the toshiba evend had an option for 0-255 and 16-235 output.

P.s. you should know what i meant by saying i'm glad that i'm not the only one with problems in this direction...

[nevcairiel]

EVR outputs whatever you have set for "Dynamic Range", unless your media player overrides that option.

[Skwelcha]

ah ok that explains at least this phenomenon.

[QBhd]

I think the key to levels is more than just the madVR, CCC and TV chain. You also need to ensure levels are set properly further up with the player, decoder and post processor part of the chain. I make sure PotPlayer has post processing disabled and passes through video untouched, LAV is also set to pass-through levels and ffdshow RAW video is set to 16-235. Since almost all TV/Movies are 16-235 I want levels untouched as it moves through this part of the chain. Only when we hit madVR do we allow it to do it's magic and set to output 0-255, then CCC pixel format is set to Full RGB and finally my LG TV is set to Black Level High. The only thing I change in CCC is Desktop Management==>Desktop Color for my TV and set the "gamma" to 0.95 from 1.00 but that is just personal taste.

QB

[Skwelcha]

So... i made some pics from my configuration which maybe can help...

CCC 11.11: Pixelformat
https://goput.it//str/thumb/s_xy1_jpg.jpg (https://goput.it/xy1.jpg)
CCC 11.11: Video settings part 1:
https://goput.it//str/thumb/s_cu0_jpg.jpg (https://goput.it/cu0.jpg)
CCC 11.11: Video settings part 2:
https://goput.it//str/thumb/s_gxp_jpg.jpg (https://goput.it/gxp.jpg)

Lavvideo 0.42:
https://goput.it//str/thumb/s_0go_jpg.jpg (https://goput.it/0go.jpg)
Lavsplitter 0.42:
https://goput.it//str/thumb/s_hd6_jpg.jpg (https://goput.it/hd6.jpg)
madvr 0.79;
https://goput.it//str/thumb/s_q4o_jpg.jpg (https://goput.it/q4o.jpg)

testvideo from AVS mp4 test disc where i cant see any flashing bars in MPC-HC x86 1.5.3.3887:
https://goput.it//str/thumb/s_mtq_jpg.jpg (https://goput.it/mtq.jpg)
I see flashing Bars from 17 onwards if i set madvr to 15-235.

HDMIT info 1 & 2 from my Denon AVR-1912, there was no difference with and without the receiver as a passthrough for the hdmi.
https://goput.it//str/thumb/s_dju_jpg.jpg (https://goput.it/dju.jpg)
https://goput.it//str/thumb/s_n1u_jpg.jpg (https://goput.it/n1u.jpg)

RGB option for my Toshiba 42XV635 where i had the same problem as on my philips 46PFL9705 which unfortunatly hasnt such kinda option:
https://goput.it//str/thumb/s_uq1_jpg.jpg (https://goput.it/uq1.jpg)

I probably get on your nervs with this topic so an apology in advance^^ I just don't see where the problem should be to just output FULL RGB

[secvensor]

And when in full screen menu will make time display, for an exclusive mode?
And that one line of scrolling the informative does not give enough information.

[Andy o]

testvideo from AVS mp4 test disc where i cant see any flashing bars in MPC-HC x86 1.5.3.3887:
https://goput.it//str/thumb/s_mtq_jpg.jpg (https://goput.it/mtq.jpg)
I see flashing Bars from 17 onwards if i set madvr to 15-235.


If you raise brightness (or black level) on your TV does it help, or does black just turn into grey without giving you the bars?

[Skwelcha]

the black just turns grey/white, no flashing bars in this config no matter what i set on the TV

[Andy o]

Then apparently your TV isn't taking full RGB from this card. Do you have a separate device to test your TV input, like a blu-ray player that can output Full RGB (like the PS3)? There are tests you can burn into a DVD-R and play them on blu-ray players, AFAIK one of the AVSHD versions can. If it's OK with it, you can maybe look into an EDID override, but that's probably a long shot.

If you can't fix your TV's input, your best choice for madVR video would be to keep Full RGB on CCC pixel format and set madVR to 16-235.

[Skwelcha]

no i dont have a ps3, just a xbox360 :/ regarding full rgb in CCC with 16-235 madvr, wasnt "dansrfe" saying it would be the best to either only use limited or only full?

[dansrfe]

no i dont have a ps3, just a xbox360 :/ regarding full rgb in CCC with 16-235 madvr, wasnt "dansrfe" saying it would be the best to either only use limited or only full?

What I don't know is if CCC expands or compresses the range or if it simply clips it depending on the output from madVR.

If it simply clips it (which is what I think it does) then CCC should always be set to Full RGB and it wouldn't make a difference if you were sending 0-255 or 16-235 to the tv. But if it expands or clips it then we have a bigger problem and the chain should be kept limited or full rgb throughout.

[dansrfe]

Small Feature Request: Hotkey to disable/enable automatic refresh rate change in madVR. Option added to disable/enable changer in madVR notification area icon list. As a bonus if you could automatically populate the custom list of refresh rates from madVR's settings into individual checkbox selection entries in a list format within the madVR notification area icon that would be great for specifically forcing a refresh rate regardless of input for testing or for DVD material (since the navigator doesn't output the true fps of the video).

[Andy o]

The native pixel format is Full RGB and that's why it's the recommended setting. Limited compresses everything as a last step, including desktop, madVR and games, and it introduces banding in the process. It doesn't do anything "depending on the output from madVR". It can't even know what madVR is sending.

[Andy o]

no i dont have a ps3, just a xbox360 :/ regarding full rgb in CCC with 16-235 madvr, wasnt "dansrfe" saying it would be the best to either only use limited or only full?

The xbox doesn't have this setting? Although, I don't know if it can play AVCHD discs, if it can, you can run one of the AVS HD 709 test discs as well.

I'm not sure what "only use limited or only full" means. You mean, either use use TV Levels (16-235) in madVR and pixel format Limited, or use PC levels and pixel format Full RGB? If so, the former won't get you correct levels, and the latter is the actual ideal recommended setup and (I presume) what most of us are running anyway.

If your TV can only take limited RGB, you have two choices. To get correct levels with pixel format Limited RGB, you're gonna have to use PC levels in madVR. In this case, madVR expands the video into 0-255 and then the driver compresses again to 16-235 everything, including desktop and games. Since the driver's messing around after madVR, madVR can't do anything about the banding introduced by this driver compression (it's visible in test ramps, probably not so much or at all in actual video).

The other way, which I proposed above, is to set pixel format to full RGB and madVR to 16-235. Since your TV is clipping anything below 16 and above 235 you won't see these values on your desktop, games, etc. madVR will be passing through the video at 16-235 though, so video with madVR will be correct. This way the driver doesn't mess with the video after madVR.

You see how if you do both pixel format limited AND madVR TV levels, madVR will pass through 16-235, only to be compressed by the driver, and you'll get compressed incorrect levels.

[QBhd]

@Skwelcha ... try using a calibration image and not a movie clip. The reason this is good is that it will eliminate many steps in the chain for troubleshooting purposes. I recently found these images:

The Lagom LCD monitor test pages (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/)

If you still can't see blacks from 0-15 then you TV does not accept Full RGB. I use these types of images to very my TV's black level setting since it is not labeled clearly (High/Low is not as clear as Full/Limited) and with these I know for sure that Black Level set to High on my TV is FUll RGB.

You see how if you do both pixel format limited AND madVR TV levels, madVR will pass through 16-235, only to be compressed by the driver, and you'll get compressed incorrect levels

And I can confirm this since I have done many many tests and CCC should always be set with a Pixel Format of Full RGB.

QB

[fairchild]

@Skwelcha ... try using a calibration image and not a movie clip. The reason this is good is that it will eliminate many steps in the chain for troubleshooting purposes. I recently found these images:

The Lagom LCD monitor test pages (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/)

If you still can't see blacks from 0-15 then you TV does not accept Full RGB. I use these types of images to very my TV's black level setting since it is not labeled clearly (High/Low is not as clear as Full/Limited) and with these I know for sure that Black Level set to High on my TV is FUll RGB.



And I can confirm this since I have done many many tests and CCC should always be set with a Pixel Format of Full RGB.

QB

With that test pattern, I can't see the black boxes with Full RGB, even if I crank up the brightness, eventually all gets dithered and still don't get the individual boxes. Limited RGB lets me see all the boxes from 0-15. So perhaps for my plasma the best setting is indeed Limited RGB pixel ratio + 0-255 in MadVR with 0-255 dynamic range in video CCC settings. ;)

[dansrfe]

With that test pattern, I can't see the black boxes with Full RGB, even if I crank up the brightness, eventually all gets dithered and still don't get the individual boxes. Limited RGB lets me see all the boxes from 0-15. So perhaps for my plasma the best setting is indeed Limited RGB pixel ratio + 0-255 in MadVR with 0-255 dynamic range in video CCC settings. ;)

I think you are missing some gamma setting on your tv. I remember having that there were 4 gamma settings and I choose Full 1 or something like that because that is the one with the regular gamma curve.

[fairchild]

My set has no adjustable gamma settings. Gamma is controlled depending on the picture mode selected. (custom, game, standard, vivid, cinema, etc) Cinema is what I use and most who own my model, as it has the gamma range closest to 2.2 (I verified it when I calibrated my set)

[Andy o]

setting limited RGB on pixel format will introduce banding, basically negating one of the main benefits of madVR. But since your TV doesn't seem to accept full RGB, then you'll have to choose the lesser evil of that, or have the best picture with madVR and possibly other video, but crushed desktop/games/pics.

[fairchild]

I don't see any banding irregardless of me being in Full or Limited RGB pixel formats when using MadVR and proper levels. So that is a moot point with my system. The only thing that causes noticeable banding which is visible in grayscale ramp patterns is when I use EVR and NV12. If I have Lav video (or have ffdshow do high quality RGB32 conversion) convert to RGB the banding with EVR is less noticeable.

[dansrfe]

My set has no adjustable gamma settings. Gamma is controlled depending on the picture mode selected. (custom, game, standard, vivid, cinema, etc) Cinema is what I use and most who own my model, as it has the gamma range closest to 2.2 (I verified it when I calibrated my set)

I disagree. You should be using custom and calibrating to neutral values (75 on my display...this is where you can calibrate as well). If there are no gamma settings then it is probably already at 2.2 like you said. I don't believe that the newer (especially panasonic plasma tvs) don't accept 0-255 and show the whole scale distinctly. Having said that there may be some information that is beyond me. For that we'll have to wait for someone that is an expert in this area to comment.

[fairchild]

Custom doesn't work on my set and causes the gamma to become even worse and non-flattened. My set is calibrated to the best of my ability with the software+hardware at hand, this is turning into semantics ;-p Believe me, I've done my research on this set and am squeezing the absolute best performance I can out of it. Newer 2011 sets all allow you to adjust gamma and even some of the higher end 2010 sets did as well.

research (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1232049) and more research (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18252425#post18252425).