madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

the display framerate stays?

if that's the case your issue is windows.
windows 10 composition rate is all over the place.
try newer driver and newer OS version. make sure you only have one screen active and hope Microsoft fixes it.
it breaks for some user with newer WDDM version it is a total mess.

you may have luck with disabling game DVR or what that name is or xbox app thingy. FSE is currently fake on windows 10 there shouldn't be a composition rate.

they fixed it in windows 8 completely but i guess that was good enough...

[mparade]

the display framerate stays?

Yes it does.

Thanks.

[Klaus1189]

In FSE mode I cannot make a Prt Scr.

todays phones can also take pictures ;)
I am also interested in in that issue.

Now to my question:
Having an older Nvidia card here but newest driver version from 2018-08-27, custom resolution doesn't work anymore. Strange thing is, I have the list to optimize the refresh rate and I select it, then I already tried to restart the comuter as madVR suggests, but I still have the same minutes when a frame drop or repeat occurs. When I open the optimized list again, it states the selected mode is enabled.

I used it already in the past and it worked well. But it was 1709 then.
This computer only has a 1080p screen, so it only has to deal with 1080p resolutions.
Is that a driver issue, or a Windows 10 18.03 issue? Hope you can help me, to avoid spending too much time on it without success.

[mparade]

1803 & 399.07 here as well.

[mparade]

todays phones can also take pictures ;)


http://mammutmail.com/hu/download/82bf696f8c860241a3a6852e22130ff8

With similar quality like the one above. :)

[Warner306]

todays phones can also take pictures ;)
I am also interested in in that issue.

Now to my question:
Having an older Nvidia card here but newest driver version from 2018-08-27, custom resolution doesn't work anymore. Strange thing is, I have the list to optimize the refresh rate and I select it, then I already tried to restart the comuter as madVR suggests, but I still have the same minutes when a frame drop or repeat occurs. When I open the optimized list again, it states the selected mode is enabled.

I used it already in the past and it worked well. But it was 1709 then.
This computer only has a 1080p screen, so it only has to deal with 1080p resolutions.
Is that a driver issue, or a Windows 10 18.03 issue? Hope you can help me, to avoid spending too much time on it without success.

Driver upgrades and Windows updates sometimes break the custom resolution. Although you have applied it, it is not acknowledged by the driver.

Try rolling back to an older driver before running DDU and doing a clean driver install. You should be able to apply a previous optimized resolution and get it working again.

[Klaus1189]

I ckecked in Nvidia driver installer to install it fresh, so the previous version should have been deinstalled. Anybody else having trouble with latest Nvidia driver 399.07 on 18.03?

[Asmodian]

No, I just recreated my custom resolution yesterday. I had also used the clean install option when installing the newest driver (399.07). Also running win10 1803.

I did not need to restart or anything, it all worked in a nearly ideal fashion and I got down to ~1day between drops or repeats.

[el Filou]

http://mammutmail.com/hu/download/82bf696f8c860241a3a6852e22130ff8Does that also happen with SDR video? That may be a problem with the NVIDIA HDR API interacting with the display definition change or something.

[mparade]

The same is with 2160p SDR content. :(

[thighhighs]

mparade
I think this is just OSD bug :)

[huhn]

this is not an osd bug.

the desktop still runs at 60 Hz while the GPU runs at 24 hz.

[Damien147]

Do I need to do anything else beyond setting madvr for HDR?I get the AMD HDR in stats but picture seems a bit dull in comparison with windowed vs fullscreen.
My TV has pseudo HDR(no wide color gamut and 8 bit).Am I wasting my time and convert to sdr setting is better for me?
(Windows 10,samsung ku6000,amd rx 470)

[huhn]

AMD can't do HDR in windowed mode.

use whatever you like more.

AFAIK all entry level samsung HDR TV with 60 Hz panels are native 10 bit what ever that is worth.

[thighhighs]

this is not an osd bug.

the desktop still runs at 60 Hz while the GPU runs at 24 hz.TV switched to 60 too?
Otherwise the composition rate line can be ignored here. This not makes extra dropped frames, glitches or something else: i have same "60Hz composition rate" in FSE :)

[Damien147]

AMD can't do HDR in windowed mode.

use whatever you like more.

AFAIK all entry level samsung HDR TV with 60 Hz panels are native 10 bit what ever that is worth.



I suppose that in windowed I get the convert hdr to sdr setting.I guess it's the pseudo hdr and lack of WCG that makes the picture more dull.
Thank you.

[Manni]

[EDIT: unfortunately scratch that, after further tests the custom res doesn't stick, so I'm back to 385.28]

Good news for JVC owners with nVidia, I think I might finally be able to upgrade from 385.28 to a more recent driver, specifically 399.07 (with Win 10 build 1803). The last driver I tested before that was 398.36, so some version(s) in between might work as well [EDIT: with Win10 1803, all the recent versions of nVidia drivers break compatibility with Asio4All, including those that fixed it such as 398.11 and 398.36. I had to go back al;l the way to 385.28 to get Asio4all to work. FlexAsio works fine with all versions].

Most of the bugs seem to be fixed (especially the borked levels in 12bits). I was able to keep my usual RGB Full GPU, limited MadVR, Limited JVC configuration. All at 12bits 4:4:4 at 23p, 8bits 4:4:4 at 50/60p. Levels were correct both in HDR and SDR.
Main benefit (apart from obvious gaming benefits): 13mn between frame drop/repeat in 3D (1080p23FP), vs 3mn between a frame drop/repeat pre 39x.xx.
Main drawback: they have managed to break Asio4All support again (it had been broken in 390.xx, and fixed in 398.xx), but the improvement in 3D is well worth the compromise, and FlexAsio seems to be working fine, at least with REW. Not sure which exact version broke it again, but it's after 398.36.
Main warning: in order to apply the usual custom mode created by MadVR using the EDID/CTA settings, I had to enable it manually in the nVidia CP afterwards, otherwise it doesn't show up in the list of available modes. Once enabled, it seems to stick and gives me the usual 50mn to 3 hours between a frame drop/repeat in 2D at 4K23, which I can live with. I haven’t tested 1080p.
Main annoyance: you still have to set the bit depth to 12bits BEFORE selecting the custom res. Once the custom res is selected, bit depth is locked to 8bits and displays as such, but 12bits is still applied internally, at least at 30p and below. Above 30p, the drivers switches to 8bits automatically.

I'll report back after a longer test, but having tested 3D (in FSE mode), HDR (pixel shader) and SDR briefly (in 10bits full screen windowed), all seemed fine (although significantly improved in 3D).

There might still be some issues with JVC passthrough, but as I don't use it anymore I haven't tested that.

Hopefully they'll fix Asio4All again soon, without breaking anything else. It would be nice to be able to keep a current driver. 385.28 started to feel a bit long in the tooth, but was still working perfectly, including with HDR, the main drawback being the worse 3D performance.

Detailed rig and settings in sig below.

[jmone]

Thanks Manni - I'll test as well

[Sunset1982]

:confused:

you are right, missed a word... :D

[Manni]

Slight OT but re my post above about 399.07 and Asio4All, it looks like the compatibility with Asio4All is broken with all recent nVidia drivers, including 398.11 and 398.36 which did fix the issue when I tested them at the time with a former build of Windows.
So this compatibility issue with Asio4all might not only be due to the driver, but also to a combination with the O.S. build. If I go back to my trusted 385,28, Asio4all works again fine, including on the latest 1803 build. Flexasio works with all drivers, all OS versions, at least with REW, so is a good workaround if you want to use a more recent version than 385.28 with the latest OS build.

[nevcairiel]

Honestly this smells more like an issue with ASIO4ALL, since its the only application affected and its not really that special (its basically an ordinary application that for some reason cannot see your audio device anylonger), did you ever report it to them to be fixed?
I tried to check if they got other reports of this, but their support forums seem to be down, so there is that. Maybe an alternative product is more then just a work-around at this point. :p

[huhn]

i still wonder how nvidia can break something they don't support.

[jmone]

@Manni - Yup 399.07 works as you said.... still it is all a PITA, esp with HDR on UHD HFR material on the JVC. Looking forward to just using madVR to map HDR to SDR and just use 8-Bit.

[Manni]

Honestly this smells more like an issue with ASIO4ALL, since its the only application affected and its not really that special (its basically an ordinary application that for some reason cannot see your audio device anylonger), did you ever report it to them to be fixed?
I tried to check if they got other reports of this, but their support forums seem to be down, so there is that. Maybe an alternative product is more then just a work-around at this point. :p

As I said, it was broken, got fixed (with the nVidia driver, Asio4all remained the same version), is now broken again. There is definitely an issue with Asio4All, and I indicated that FlexAsio is a workaround, though not a replacement because it has some limitations.

Yes I reported it (both times). They have an email address to report issues on their website.

[Manni]

@Manni - Yup 399.07 works as you said.... still it is all a PITA, esp with HDR on UHD HFR material on the JVC. Looking forward to just using madVR to map HDR to SDR and just use 8-Bit.

As I said, I didn't test passthough as I only use pixel shader now. It seems to be working fine in 10bits with the driver set to 12bits, so not sure why you'd want to use 8bits, at least at 23p.

There is a new public build of MadVR coming up, and at least for JVC users I highly recommend to use HDR to SDR with pixel shader. Far better HDR than using passthrough on the JVCs, so nothing to lose except the auto calibration switch from the Vertex if you have one, as MadVR isn't able yet to report SDR BT2020 or SDR DCI-P3 in the HDMI stream to let the Vertex know what is coming out. Still, the PQ improvement is now well worth losing this convenience. The main drawback is to have to select manually the correct calibration user mode.

Hopefully Madshi will as some point be able to find a custom API to output the HDMI metadata for SDR, the way a standalone player does. Or will get the macro commands to work reliably with the JVCs.

[jmone]

I use my HTPC / JVC with a mix of media, BD / UHD with HDR / TV / Gaming etc and at frame rates from 23.976 to 59.94. If I want HDR working at 50/59.94 the HDMI limit will be 8-Bit at 4:4:4. I "presume" that once the HDR -> SDR work is done, I can just set my bit depth to 8-Bit and let madVR do the HDR -> SDR for content with HDR and like the non HDR material it should all "just work" with JVC at all frame rates..... or am I missing something that needs higher than 8-Bit?

[huhn]

what's wrong/limitation with running in native gamut and letting a 3D LUT take care of it?

if you want the "best" PQ a 3d lut is the way to go.

[huhn]

I use my HTPC / JVC with a mix of media, BD / UHD with HDR / TV / Gaming etc and at frame rates from 23.976 to 59.94. If I want HDR working at 50/59.94 the HDMI limit will be 8-Bit at 4:4:4. I "presume" that once the HDR -> SDR work is done, I can just set my bit depth to 8-Bit and let madVR do the HDR -> SDR for content with HDR and like the non HDR material it should all "just work" with JVC at all frame rates..... or am I missing something that needs higher than 8-Bit?

you are missing nothing.

[Manni]

I use my HTPC / JVC with a mix of media, BD / UHD with HDR / TV / Gaming etc and at frame rates from 23.976 to 59.94. If I want HDR working at 50/59.94 the HDMI limit will be 8-Bit at 4:4:4. I "presume" that once the HDR -> SDR work is done, I can just set my bit depth to 8-Bit and let madVR do the HDR -> SDR for content with HDR and like the non HDR material it should all "just work" with JVC at all frame rates..... or am I missing something that needs higher than 8-Bit?

UHD Bluray content is 10bits, so while you can dither it to 8bits and get very good results, why not make the most of the fact that the JVCs are native 12bits panels from input to panel and ask MadVR to dither to 10bits instead?

The drivers switches automatically between RGB 4:4:4 12bits 23p (for video content) and RGB 4:4:4 8bits 60p for 60p video or games, so why not take advantage of this?

what's wrong/limitation with running in native gamut and letting a 3D LUT take care of it?

if you want the "best" PQ a 3d lut is the way to go.

Projectors lose a lot of native contrast when you open the iris to get more brightness. So you're leaving A LOT of performance if you use the same native gamut for calibrating both HDR and SDR.

If you use your HDR calibration (say DCI-P3 with the P3 filter on for the wider gamut and the iris fully open to get max brightness for HDR), the SDR calibration is non-optimal (with raised black levels and about half of the native contrast you could get).

Plus in that case you get too much brightness for SDR in a dedicated room, so you have to either use a 3D LUT that limits the brightness (hence kills your contrast) or get blinded by a reference white at 100nits or more for SDR, which is about twice as much as what we're aiming for in a dedicated room.

For example, in my case I get around 100nits with the iris fully open in DCI-P3, and only around 40,000:1 on.off. The black floor is also raised.

If I use this calibration for HDR, I get blinded with 100nits reference white, and I leave a lot of on/off and black levels on the table.

With my SDR calibration, I aim for 50nits reference white, I lower the iris down to -10, it gives me double native on/off contrast (around 80,000:1) and a far better black floor.

I do use a 3D LUT for each calibration, but they cannot apply to the same baseline without losing a lot of performance in one mode or the other.

[huhn]

sorry for asking a question... seriously... sorry that i wanted to know why? my mistake i will not do it again and die in ignorance.

[Manni]

sorry for asking a question... seriously... sorry that i wanted to know why? my mistake i will not do it again and die in ignorance.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood the tone of your post. I've edited mine.

[ryrynz]

Specifics can catch you out, sometimes we think we know the answers and are humbled by others.

[Manni]

@nevcairiel, @huhn

Apologies to both of you, I didn't read your posts correctly (I guess I'm having bad morning) and have edited my replies. Sorry about that.

[jmone]

Thanks for the replies. I've been lurking on the AVS thread and doing my own testing but I'm waiting for the public release that should (according to madshi) have a subs off screen bug fixed. I've also got a a couple of custom profiles set to change settings for HFR HDR material (like Billy Lynn) as that is going to flog the GPU with HDR->SDR @ 59.94fps. Will play more with the 10 vs 8-Bit at that point.

[ryrynz]

Is there a best practice to deal with the typically darker HDR picture on an SDR set? I know this is normal, but I don't want to rule out the better bitrate and higher res of 4K HDR content entirely.
This will vary from video to video I guess..

[iSeries]

Main warning: in order to apply the usual custom mode created by MadVR using the EDID/CTA settings, I had to enable it manually in the nVidia CP afterwards, otherwise it doesn't show up in the list of available modes.

Main annoyance: you still have to set the bit depth to 12bits BEFORE selecting the custom res. Once the custom res is selected, bit depth is locked to 8bits and displays as such, but 12bits is still applied internally, at least at 30p and below. Above 30p, the drivers switches to 8bits automatically.

Hi Manni, how did you manually enable the custom res in Nvidia control panel? For some reason when I go into the control panel, the custom res isn't anywhere to be found, yet MadVR is able to switch to it (once MadVR switches to it, it's listed in the driver under 'custom resolutions', but once I switch back to a native mode, the custom res is gone again!).

Also, regarding 12 bit, what is a good way to test if 12 bits is being output when the drivers says 8 bit?

I know Madshi said he didn't want to implement this but it'd be much easier if there was a way to select bit depth in MadVR under Display Modes - we can already select resolution and refresh rate, bit depth seems like a logical addition. Maybe it can't be done?

Also I wish Nvidia would add back 10 bit output for RGB but I guess that will never happen...maybe Madshi could in the case of a 12 bit driver setting, output 12 bit directly from MadVR (by proper padding or whatever needs to happen to do it right) cos no one seems to know what Nvidia is doing.

[ryrynz]

I already asked for this over a year ago and there was no way to switch bit depth outside of the control panel.

[iSeries]

There doesn't seem to be a reliable way to switch bit depth inside the control panel either lol, always reverts back to 8 bit after a reboot or waking up from sleep, or at least it does for me...bloody Nvidia!

I did manage to create a custom res with CRU by putting in the info from MadVR (custom res listed under 'PC' in the Nvidia control panel), and I can switch between 8 bit and 12 bit no problem (apart from the 12 bit setting not surviving a reboot), but for some reason I can't get MadVR to use it, so if anyone knows a workaround for that, please let me know :-)

[ryrynz]

The way that works for me with 385.28 is to set it to 12 while watching a video when madVR has changed the refresh rate, it sticks then.. I'm not using any custom madVR created custom res modes.
I might give the new drivers a shot, but the problems with all versions after 385.28 have always left me wondering why I even bothered.

[Manni]

Hi Manni, how did you manually enable the custom res in Nvidia control panel? For some reason when I go into the control panel, the custom res isn't anywhere to be found, yet MadVR is able to switch to it (once MadVR switches to it, it's listed in the driver under 'custom resolutions', but once I switch back to a native mode, the custom res is gone again!).

Also, regarding 12 bit, what is a good way to test if 12 bits is being output when the drivers says 8 bit?

I know Madshi said he didn't want to implement this but it'd be much easier if there was a way to select bit depth in MadVR under Display Modes - we can already select resolution and refresh rate, bit depth seems like a logical addition. Maybe it can't be done?

Also I wish Nvidia would add back 10 bit output for RGB but I guess that will never happen...maybe Madshi could in the case of a 12 bit driver setting, output 12 bit directly from MadVR (by proper padding or whatever needs to happen to do it right) cos no one seems to know what Nvidia is doing.

To enable the custom res after MadVR created it, I simply went the the nvidia CP, and in "change resolution" I clicked on "customize" and selected the custom res that appears in the list. After that, it appears in the list of custom res on the panel itself when changing res.

My whole process is:

- Uninstall current driver with DDU, reboot
- Install 399.07, custom, clean install, reboot
- Select 7.1 in windows control panel for sound, disable all enhencements
- Set power management mode to Adaptive in Manage 3D settings
- In change resolution, set resolution to 4K2K (native), set refresh rate to 30p, apply, then select use nVidia color settings, set bit depth to 12bits (only possible at 30p or below, only possible with a standard, not custom res), set output to RGB Full.
- Close nVidia CP
- In MadVR, create a custom res for 23p, (EDIT 23p, select EDID/CTA for the JVCs), reset GPU
- In nVidia CP, I select customize in change resolution, enable the custom res just created by MadVR
- the custom res should appear in the list in the main CP
- I select 23p refresh rate, that's my default for 90% of my content
- Once the 23p custom res is selected, the driver shows 8bits and can't be changed, but the output is actually 10bits. I check this with my Vertex. The driver will also say it's 24p, but it isn't, that an old CP bug.
- Whenever I need to play 50/80p, the driver selects 8bits automatically.
- I use profiles to adapt processing/upscaling/rendering settings depending on 23p12bits (MadVR set to 10bits or more dithering) and 60p8bits (MadVR set to 8bits dithering, and options are less taxing GPU power wise).

I think the 10bits limitation is a OS limitation rather than a GPU limitation, but Madshi would have to answer that one.

I can only say that sending 10bits over the 12bits GPU with the JVC works fine for 23-30p.

[EDIT: after more tests, the custom res doesn't seem to stick, so I'm back to 385.28]

[iSeries]

Yeah I tried 385.28 but I find 23p is way off and MadVR can't create a custom res that will work well. Latest couple of drivers seem much better in that regard and MadVR can create a custom 23p res with no drops / repeats for over 20 hours

[Manni]

There doesn't seem to be a reliable way to switch bit depth inside the control panel either lol, always reverts back to 8 bit after a reboot or waking up from sleep, or at least it does for me...bloody Nvidia!

I did manage to create a custom res with CRU by putting in the info from MadVR (custom res listed under 'PC' in the Nvidia control panel), and I can switch between 8 bit and 12 bit no problem (apart from the 12 bit setting not surviving a reboot), but for some reason I can't get MadVR to use it, so if anyone knows a workaround for that, please let me know :-)

If set to 12bits at 30p or less before selecting the custom res, the driver displays 8bits when the custom res is applied, but it actually outputs 12bits (at 30p or less). I checked this with a Vertex.

The way that works for me with 385.28 is to set it to 12 while watching a video when madVR has changed the refresh rate, it sticks then.. I'm not using any custom madVR created custom res modes.
I might give the new drivers a shot, but the problems with all versions after 385.28 have always left me wondering why I even bothered.

The main motivation for me to leave 385.28 behind was the better 3D. 13mn between frame drops vs 3mn between frame drops is significant.

If you're not a gamer and don't need 3D, 385.28 is the best version to use IMHO, especially if you need Asio4All with Win 10 build 1803.

[mrmojo666]

AMD can't do HDR in windowed mode.

use whatever you like more.

AFAIK all entry level samsung HDR TV with 60 Hz panels are native 10 bit what ever that is worth.

no problem here autoswitch hdr in windowed mode.

[oldpainlesskodi]

- Once the 23p custom res is selected, the driver shows 8bits and can't be changed, but the output is actually 10bits. I check this with my Vertex.

Odd, my Receiver is reporting 8bit

[huhn]

no problem here autoswitch hdr in windowed mode.

can you make me a screen of the OSD.
my information are from the time madshi released a version supporting the AMD HDR API which is quite old now.

[mclingo]

are you talking about windows overlay mode in MADVR or windowed mode in your movieplayer, I use windowed mode in KODI DS player and HDR switch works fine, I dont have windows overlay ticked in MADVR.

[huhn]

i'm talking about windowed d3d11 not windowed fullscreen not FSE and overlay is d3d9 only and doesn't work on AMD.

my information about AMD HDR using there API is that it needs either.
d3d11 10 bit windowed fullscreen
or d3d11 10 bit fullscreen exclusive.

[mrmojo666]

can you make me a screen of the OSD.
my information are from the time madshi released a version supporting the AMD HDR API which is quite old now.

opsss, i didn't understand that you mean something different from d3d11 10 bit windowed fullscreen.

so i don't know for other windowed modes I use windowed fullsceen. but i can try , if you can explain exactly what mode you refer and how to get it.

[mclingo]

i'm not really sure what you mean either now, as far as I know there are two prerequisites for AMD cards with HDR / MADVR - 1. tick use Direct3D11 for presentation ticked and 2. 10 bit set in properties\native display bit depth.

other than that I'm not aware of anything else makes any difference beyond send meta to display.

Happy to be re-educated though.

[huhn]

the naming is confusion to say it friendly.

i can easily misunderstand him too i don't know if he mead fullscreen windowed or just "windowed"

windowed is the mode where the player isn't filling the screen.

maybe fullscreen windowed should be renamed to boarderless windowed that's used by games.