madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[sneaker_ger]

Is the dithering in LAV video decoder the same process as in MadVR ? So could it be set to 'none' there ? Thx
LAV only dithers when it has to convert the output format. If you use madvr and don't deactivate any of the default output formats in LAV Video this basically never happens. Like nevcairiel said: never turn off dithering in madvr. It's necessary as madvr does all kinds of processing (like chroma upscaling) in high bitdepth.

[sat4all]

@Manni

Would you please check if 418.81 passthrough still sends bogus metadata?

Edit: You have already answered that in another thread, Thanks!

[70MM]

LAV only dithers when it has to convert the output format. If you use madvr and don't deactivate any of the default output formats in LAV Video this basically never happens. Like nevcairiel said: never turn off dithering in madvr. It's necessary as madvr does all kinds of processing (like chroma upscaling) in high bitdepth. Sorry guys I dont understand this staement. I use madvr with JRiver. I use dithering in madvr, have done for years. But Ive never gone into Lav Filters and and deactivated any default output formats as I wouldnt even know how to get in there or even do anything.... Am I doing something wrong here, is my dithering in madvr actually working or not?

[sneaker_ger]

You are doing everything correctly.

[nevcairiel]

Most people should probably never touch any of the dithering settings, and they would get an optimal experience that way even. :)

[tp4tissue]

Most people should probably never touch any of the dithering settings, and they would get an optimal experience that way even. :)

Just chking, the RGB output lvl in _Lav Filter_ should be sett to 255 right ?

I've always wondered, because it always looks the same on output, so I just assumed madvr was doing everything ?. :)

[huhn]

it needs very specific to ever do anything and that'S not going to happen with madVR.

it's called RGB output levels (for YUV-> RGB conversation)
so where are you outputting YUV as RGB?

[tp4tissue]

it needs very specific to ever do anything and that'S not going to happen with madVR.

it's called RGB output levels (for YUV-> RGB conversation)
so where are you outputting YUV as RGB?

I assumed the lav feeds into madvr, so then madvr takes that and does magic ?

[70MM]

I have the new JVC NX9 projector and want to try using the pixel shader tone mapping in madvr rather than the auto tone mapping in my NX9. However since Im new to this and dont understand, what "target peak nits" setting should I use on madvr for my NX9 projector? Thank you in advance...

[SamuriHL]

Looks like that projector is somewhere around 185 nits max. I could be off so hopefully someone else chimes in that knows what they're talking about (hint not me! LOL)

[70MM]

Looks like that projector is somewhere around 185 nits max. I could be off so hopefully someone else chimes in that knows what they're talking about (hint not me! LOL)

Thank you very much as I know nothing about setting up HDR with my JVC NX9 projector. I think the default in madvr is 400 nits, whats different between it and your 185 nits please?

I feel that the proj isnt quite bright enough on their auto tone mapping as they have a slider for different size screens and gain, however they give no advice where to place the slider, its defaulted to a 120" screen with a gain of 1.

I want to test the madvr auto dynamic tone mapping to see it its better than the one in JVC. madshi said its very easy to setup but I just dont understand about the nits and what number to use for that setting..

Even a Google doesnt help my in this case....:confused:

[SamuriHL]

Try 175 to start (below your max nits or what I believe is your max nits anyway) and see what it looks like. You can always adjust it until it looks the way you want brightness wise. It might take some playing around to get it set up just the way you want, but, start there and see what happens. If it's too dark, try lowering the target nit until it looks right.

[70MM]

Try 175 to start (below your max nits or what I believe is your max nits anyway) and see what it looks like. You can always adjust it until it looks the way you want brightness wise. It might take some playing around to get it set up just the way you want, but, start there and see what happens. If it's too dark, try lowering the target nit until it looks right.Great thank you so much for your help, so a lower number than 175 will be brighter correct. If you make it too bright do you loose contrast or blacks?

[ryrynz]

Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?

[madjock]

Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?

Is there such a thing that would be common to all ?, I have stopped reading the Projector thread as it seems to have taken on a life of its own with various apps needed or used, and having to check all your files as well. It does not help that my 1050 goes on fire even at the most basic of settings as well.

I have only been messing with HDR for about a month now, and the more I read, the more I do not understand what to do with it.

It seems there is no real calibration settings for HDR and you for the most part have to let your TV do its thing, I also have no idea how people know what is good or bad. Initially I was impressed with HDR but I don't have a dark picture that everyone speaks about, and I don't really want a dark picture either.

[chros]

Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?

What do you mean exactly? There's an HDR testpattern included in the madvr zip package or the HDR-10 calibration and test patterns set (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/2943380-hdr10-test-patterns-set.html).

I also have no idea how people know what is good or bad.
Probably they don't, but they just like the result.
Not to mention that every manufacturer can literally do whatever they want with HDR10, there's no strict standard for it.

Initially I was impressed with HDR but I don't have a dark picture that everyone speaks about, and I don't really want a dark picture either.
Me neither. Hence I have set target nits to 120 in latest madvr beta with using gamma 2.4 3dlut on gamma 2.4 screen (although I just learned that's not the desired setup) and I don't have to adjust anything else and the picture is amazing (at least for me) :)

[huhn]

Great thank you so much for your help, so a lower number than 175 will be brighter correct. If you make it too bright do you loose contrast or blacks?

the lower the max nit the lower the image range but that doesn't affect your devices CR which stays the same.

so it kind of lowers "CR" and there is no way around that.

there is a diffuse level which is far away from the black so they should be untouched for the most part.

[Warner306]

Thank you very much as I know nothing about setting up HDR with my JVC NX9 projector. I think the default in madvr is 400 nits, whats different between it and your 185 nits please?

I feel that the proj isnt quite bright enough on their auto tone mapping as they have a slider for different size screens and gain, however they give no advice where to place the slider, its defaulted to a 120" screen with a gain of 1.

I want to test the madvr auto dynamic tone mapping to see it its better than the one in JVC. madshi said its very easy to setup but I just dont understand about the nits and what number to use for that setting..

Even a Google doesnt help my in this case....:confused:

I would start at 200 nits and raise it until the image has sufficient contrast. Increasing the target nits will make the image darker but with greater high dynamic range and contrast. Lowering this value will make the image brighter at the expense of raising black a bit and clipping highlight detail. The lower the number, the greater the tone mapping compression, but the brighter the image.

It would also help to use the current test build found in Soulnight's thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/3040072-madvr-tool-madmeasurehdr-optimizer-measurements-dynamic-clipping-target-nits.html.

There is actually a new test build available if you browse to Page 24, Post #712 that hasn't yet been added to the first post.

To use the test build, extract the zip file into the madVR installation folder overwriting existing files. madVR must be closed when you do this.

I prefer "highlight recovery strength" set to "medium," but higher values can also work. Make sure you uncheck all of the checkboxes related to tone mapping under "trade quality for performance." The other options have been simplified in this build.

If you get that far and want to go further, you can try pre-measuring your files with madMeasureHDR as explained here:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=223175&pid=2750406#pid2750406

Once your files are measured, you can experiment with some of the other tools mentioned there, including Soulnight's dynamic target nits tool.

[Warner306]

Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?

A test file might be possible, but the result seems to vary per movie, possibly to due to other factors such as the amount of pixels near black. After tone mapping, movies with a low black floor can get quite dark because tone mapping will make many of the lower values even darker after tone mapping. This mostly occurs when raising the target nits above the actual brightness of your display by a large amount. The AvgFALL (Frame Average Light Level) can help in judging the overall brightness of the movie, but even it seems to fail sometimes in predicting a movie that is too dark after tone mapping.

I have been using HDR profile rules very similar to Manni's to match the target nits to the movie's measured AvgFMLL (Average Frame Maximum Light Level):

if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL < 1) "General HDR" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 100) "200 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 160) "225 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 190) "250 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 225) "275 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 250) "300 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 270) "325 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 300) "350 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 380) "375 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 550) "400 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 700) "425 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL > 700) "480 nits"

You have to measure your files for profile rules like these to work. This approach focuses more on preserving the dynamic range of the source, but it also gets the brightness/contrast right much of the time. I haven't tried to optimize them any further, only simplify them, but it does a decent job of selecting a curve most of the time. Manni's original rules also incorporate the AvgFALL and I removed that bit.

This all could become a moot point if Soulnight's approach to changing the target nits dynamically during the movie ever works smoothly.

[Warner306]

Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?

If you are testing with the latest builds and still find the image is too dark, trying changing the output gamma in madVR. Even those with a display calibrated to 2.20 can sometimes get a better result by setting madVR to 2.40.

[tp4tissue]

If you are testing with the latest builds and still find the image is too dark, trying changing the output gamma in madVR. Even those with a display calibrated to 2.20 can sometimes get a better result by setting madVR to 2.40.

why does setting to 2.4 make it brighter ?

My 2.4 luts are always darker

Also, is there a lut switcher of sorts in madvr that can cycle the luts in a folder ?

[huhn]

with HDR->SDR madVR trys to archive a gamma of 2.2 and at that gamma the brightness matches PQ brightness. so if you now set your display is calibrated to 2.4 it will lower the gamma so the image looks brighter and is effect gamma 2.2.

with a target 2.4 3D LUT it doesn't do that because it doesn't known the 3D LUT gamma so the image is darker in comparison and mathematically wrong.

this should not be confused with color and gamma setting which work different and again don't work properly with a 3D LUT.

Also, is there a lut switcher of sorts in madvr that can cycle the luts in a folder ?

no but you can do that with profiles.

[Manni]

Good news: it looks like 418.81 fixes the levels issues that I had with the JVCs in 12bits. So now you can get the correct levels with NCP set to 4K23 12bits RGB Full and MadVR set to video levels (16-235) with the projector set to standard HDMI.

That means that there is officially no reason to stay with 385.28, at least here.

Using CRU, custom refresh survive a reboot (as long as 23p is your default rate, not 60p).

Great to have custom refresh rates, correct levels and optimized 3D with the same drivers, with Asio4all support as well.

Still not an option for those who need HDMI passthrough for HDR, as the metadata is still not correct sadly. But if you use pixer shader tonemapping as I do, 418.81 seem to work great.

I just hope that it will be the same with my new RS2000 (arriving next week) and that ideally the 8bits magenta bug will be gone on the new models. I'll report back when I've been able to test.

[SamuriHL]

Great thank you so much for your help, so a lower number than 175 will be brighter correct. If you make it too bright do you loose contrast or blacks?

I need to be clear on one point here. This is true if you are converting to SDR. if you are outputting to HDR then a higher target nit value would correspond to a brighter image. Yes, this can be somewhat confusing to wrap your head around in the beginning but it does make sense. Making it "too bright" definitely can cause unwanted issues, yes.

[mrmojo666]

Good news: it looks like 418.81 fixes the levels issues that I had with the JVCs in 12bits. So now you can get the correct levels with NCP set to 4K23 12bits RGB Full and MadVR set to video levels (16-235) with the projector set to standard HDMI.

That means that there is officially no reason to stay with 385.28, at least here.

Using CRU, custom refresh survive a reboot (as long as 23p is your default rate, not 60p).

Great to have custom refresh rates, correct levels and optimized 3D with the same drivers, with Asio4all support as well.

Still not an option for those who need HDMI passthrough for HDR, as the metadata is still not correct sadly. But if you use pixer shader tonemapping as I do, 418.81 seem to work great.

I just hope that it will be the same with my new RS2000 (arriving next week) and that ideally the 8bits magenta bug will be gone on the new models. I'll report back when I've been able to test.

just a question OT, are you using asio because you do not passthrough audio ?

[Manni]

just a question OT, are you using asio because you do not passthrough audio ?

No, no, Asio4all is just for REW :)

I use HDMI bitstream for movie audio playback.

[brazen1]

It's great to see nVidia is addressing issues for JVC PJ users using madVR. In the mean time, for three driver series dating back to last year, they still fail to engage HDR mode because they can't even passthrough. I installed 418.81 a few days ago. It failed as miserable as the previous dozen or so.

[sat4all]

@Manni

Does other apps like HDR 3D games also send wrong metadata or it's only related to madVR?

[Warner306]

It's great to see nVidia is addressing issues for JVC PJ users using madVR. In the mean time, for three driver series dating back to last year, they still fail to engage HDR mode because they can't even passthrough. I installed 418.81 a few days ago. It failed as miserable as the previous dozen or so.

It must be DVDFab alone because madVR seems fine: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013

[Manni]

@Manni

Does other apps like HDR 3D games also send wrong metadata or it's only related to madVR?

No idea, I haven't tested and don't have any HDR games.

[mrmojo666]

No, no, Asio4all is just for REW :)

I use HDMI bitstream for movie audio playback.

thank you for the answer, but.....what do you mean as REW ? :D

[KoKlusz]

No idea, I haven't tested and don't have any HDR games.

If you would like to test it, Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Resident Evil 2 have free demos on steam that support HDR.

[Manni]

thank you for the answer, but.....what do you mean as REW ? :D

Room EQ Wizard https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

If you would like to test it, Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Resident Evil 2 have free demos on steam that support HDR.

Thanks, I might if I find the time, but not a priority here. Also how am I supposed to know if the metadata is correct or not? At least with UHD Bluray we know what the correct metadata is, plus MadVR shows it in the OSD.

nVidia is sending metadata, it's just not the correct one. the only way to know is to know what should be sent in passthrough mode.

[huhn]

it's usually 4k with 10000 nit as pure white (will be clipped anyway so they didn'T bother.)

you will have sliders to control the meta data and you only need to look into the sun the max nit you setup.

[KoKlusz]

Tomb Raider internally reaches max 1500 nits, while RE2 4000 nits, so those values should be somehow reflected in metadata. If you gonna get the same values as with madVR, than metadata is fake.

That said this is purely to satisfy mine and sat4all's curiosity, so don't bother with this if you have better things to do.

[tp4tissue]

Tomb Raider internally reaches max 1500 nits, while RE2 4000 nits, so those values should be somehow reflected in metadata. If you gonna get the same values as with madVR, than metadata is fake.

That said this is purely to satisfy mine and sat4all's curiosity, so don't bother with this if you have better things to do.

This is confusing.

The color graders don't have the right equipment.

We don't have the right equipment.

Neither parties have the right equipment to view the standard.. :confused:

[huhn]

it'S a computer game and only light source like the sun have this brightness.

[OakLover]

https://s2.imagebanana.com/file/190209/thb/mFrfV1CZ.PNG (https://www.imagebanana.com/s/1328/mFrfV1CZ.html)

It is an expected behaviour for the GPU to reject every single optimized pixel clock up to clock number 32? A compatibility of 85 sounds a little bit more promising than that.

Am I doing something wrong or it is the display of my TV driving me nuts?

[madjock]

It is an expected behaviour for the GPU to reject every single optimized pixel clock up to clock number 32? A compatibility of 85 sounds a little bit more promising than that.

Am I doing something wrong or it is the display of my TV driving me nuts?

Not really, I never had any success with that side of madVR myself, so just always used older nVidia drivers that accepted custom resolutions. I always found the numbers that madVR was saying would work were of no use.

I think others have more success by inputing the numbers madVR gives into CRU, I never had much success with that, but lots of others did.

[brotherscro1]

Can anyone recomend me good settings for madVR can't seem to find some good settings most of what I have found is for older versions and with some video stutters
I have gtx 980ti i7 5930k and watching on 1440p screen mostly 1080p content sometimes 4k if that helps
Thanks

[madjock]

Can anyone recomend me good settings for madVR can't seem to find some good settings most of what I have found is for older versions and with some video stutters
I have gtx 980ti i7 5930k and watching on 1440p screen mostly 1080p content sometimes 4k if that helps
Thanks

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188&pid=2238942#pid2238942

The guide above is very relevant. It works best if you create profiles as in the guide for each resolution you are using.

Best bet is to set it up as per the guide and start low with options and work up to either what looks good to you, but is under the GPU utilization to stop issues.

[QBhd]

It is an expected behaviour for the GPU to reject every single optimized pixel clock up to clock number 32? A compatibility of 85 sounds a little bit more promising than that.

Am I doing something wrong or it is the display of my TV driving me nuts?

I have an old "720p" which is actually 1024x768 pixels... so I have 5 resolutions set up (59,60,71,72 and 75 Hz). The thing is, my TV will only accept resolutions with a Vertical Total around 800 (it seems to be +/- 10 around 800) Anything else and the TV rejects it; saying "invalid Format". It took a lot of errors before I realized what value was limiting my choices. Now when I optimize, if there is no suggestions with a vertical total around 800, I just play another video and try again.

So I suggest you look at every resolution your TV actually accepts and see if there is a value in those resolutions that is similar to one another... as I said, for me it was vertical total 800 (+/- 10), for you it may be something else, but it's worth paying attention to the resolutions that are accepted

QB

[Warner306]

https://s2.imagebanana.com/file/190209/thb/mFrfV1CZ.PNG (https://www.imagebanana.com/s/1328/mFrfV1CZ.html)

It is an expected behaviour for the GPU to reject every single optimized pixel clock up to clock number 32? A compatibility of 85 sounds a little bit more promising than that.

Am I doing something wrong or it is the display of my TV driving me nuts?

It isn't expected behavior, but it happens. Often, the only option left is to try another video driver version or CRU.

[OakLover]

That custom resolution feature seems to work for me right now. I played two different videos for over an hour each and tested two optimized pixel clocks with a compatibility of 50. I got two times a hit.:D

There is an Extension blocks section on the main window of the Custom Resolution Utility and I had to delete the resolution I currently try to optimize from two different Data Blocks called TV resolutions and HDMI support (Screenshot).

https://s1.imagebanana.com/file/190210/thb/9u8mYfI9.PNG (https://www.imagebanana.com/s/1329/9u8mYfI9.html)

I don't use CRU to add those resolutions to my system. madvr is doing all this work and now I wonder if it will work a third time.

EDIT: It worked for a third time.

[actarusfleed]

Excuse me guys, a simple question:

For an user forced to use D3D11 hardware decoding .... Isn't possible to put subtitles into viewing area?

Thank you so much

[sneaker_ger]

There is no black bar detection with D3D11 native (or DXVA2 native). D3D11 copy-back or DXVA2 copy-back aren't fast enough on your system?
Workaround would be to (hard) set different subtitle position if your player allows this. But of course needs to be changed manually when you switch to a movie with different AR ...

[ashlar42]

Still not an option for those who need HDMI passthrough for HDR, as the metadata is still not correct sadly. But if you use pixer shader tonemapping as I do, 418.81 seem to work great.As a user of a plasma 1080p panel I have to admit that my future upgrade to OLED is looking scarier and scarier. There seems to be so many buts and ifs for UHD HDR playback that I dread the day I'll have to deal with them. :eek:

[madjock]

As a user of a plasma 1080p panel I have to admit that my future upgrade to OLED is looking scarier and scarier. There seems to be so many buts and ifs for UHD HDR playback that I dread the day I'll have to deal with them. :eek:

Having bought a 4K TV a few weeks ago, it is quite daunting but I think only because we try and get the best out of it.

For example your average Joe will select a preset and away they will go, we are the ones worried about Gamma, crushed blacks and I do think we make things hard for ourselves, I know personally I was quite in awe of UHD when I played my first file, but by the time I have tweaked, changed settings it seems a lot flatter now, so unsure if I am doing more harm than good.

I also do not know how you would know if the metadata was not correct ?

[iSeries]

I also do not know how you would know if the metadata was not correct ?

Looks like we can't know unless the TV reports it. At first it looked like it was only 417.** and later drivers (I'm using 416.81) but then someone posted that this affected all drivers after the 398.** ones, so if true nvidia has been affected by this for a while now.

[chros]

As a user of a plasma 1080p panel I have to admit that my future upgrade to OLED is looking scarier and scarier.
:) That's why I didn't dare to acquire one. Not to mention, I'd only need the quater of its features, and smart users can even find issues with those. Maybe just a huge monitor and that's it? But for what price? Maybe we need a separate topic exactly for "What display for madVR?" :)