madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[noee]

....or is it a case that there are still very few users with these variables - AMD RX card + WINDOWS 10 creative + DIRECT3D11 +HDR compatible 4K TV.

So, I don't see that issue, but I'm:
RX560 + Win7Ult + D3D11 + HDR 4K TV

Don't have much beyond a few 4K HDR samples.

[mclingo]

So, I don't see that issue, but I'm:
RX560 + Win7Ult + D3D11 + HDR 4K TV

Don't have much beyond a few 4K HDR samples.

thanks for your input, it doesnt surprise me its on an issue win 7, if I wasnt a 3d fan i would have stayed with win7 myself but you need win8 minimum for 3d MVC

calibrating madvr for dci-p3 is a good enough workaround for now though.

thanks again.

[Warner306]

What is it that madVR is doing that is correcting your issue? Are you upconverting BT.709 content to DCI-P3? That setting only applies to SDR content. Are you sure there isn't an issue with the way you have calibrated your display. Is your SDR gamut set to "Native" or "Wide" or "Extended" rather than "Auto" or "BT.709"?

[mclingo]

What is it that madVR is doing that is correcting your issue? Are you upconverting BT.709 content to DCI-P3? That setting only applies to SDR content. Are you sure there isn't an issue with the way you have calibrated your display. Is your SDR gamut set to "Native" or "Wide" or "Extended" rather than "Auto" or "BT.709"?

Hi, thanks for your interest in this matter, I know its not an issue with my TV setup as this only happens in MADVR, no issues at all using other renderers, HDR material is also fine so yes its just an issue with SDR material.

The workaround is to enable calibration in MADVR and calibrate to DCI-P3 with pure power curve 2.20.

I also have the issue on my other 4k TV, a 2017 Smasung MU7000 so I know its defo an issue with the PC itself.

The issue also disappears when I disable DIRECT3d11 so I think its something to do with how MADVR/DIRECT3D is communicating with the AMD driver.

[mrmojo666]

Hi, yeah I tried latest driver before I switched back to 18.2.2 so resolve me pc freezing issues.

I'm going to wait until the next driver release and test it again. Its a bit odd we are the only two reporting this or is it a case that there are still very few users with these variables - AMD RX card + WINDOWS 10 creative + DIRECT3D11 +HDR compatible 4K TV.

think so :(

[Warner306]

The issue also disappears when I disable DIRECT3d11 so I think its something to do with how MADVR/DIRECT3D is communicating with the AMD driver.

What is the gamut set to on your display? Try setting it to "Auto" and then disabling calibration controls in madVR. Does it get any better?

Changing madVR to DCI-P3 suggests your TV is not using proper color management of BT.709 sources, which can result in oversaturated colors if the TV is set to display a wider gamut. Only the gamut is relevant in madVR; the gamma setting is ignored unless gamma processing is used. You are telling madVR to upconvert BT.709 to DCI-P3 and this is fixing your problem.

[mrmojo666]

What is the gamut set to on your display? Try setting it to "Auto" and then disabling calibration controls in madVR. Does it get any better?

Changing madVR to DCI-P3 suggests your TV is not using proper color management of BT.709 sources, which can result in oversaturated colors if the TV is set to display a wider gamut. Only the gamut is relevant in madVR; the gamma setting is ignored unless gamma processing is used. You are telling madVR to upconvert BT.709 to DCI-P3 and this is fixing your problem.

uhmmm.. in my case in windowed mode was not happening...... so how could come that is tv the problem ?

[mclingo]

confident its not the TV, it happens on both my TV's, if it were the TV it should also happen with a none MADVR renderer and they are all fine, dont think I have a gamut setting on my TV either, I have normal and wide gamut but i've tried both, its currently not on wide.

[huhn]

https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/content_type.aspx

this can be the issue and yes this can be different just from switching windowed to full screen.

[Warner306]

confident its not the TV, it happens on both my TV's, if it were the TV it should also happen with a none MADVR renderer and they are all fine, dont think I have a gamut setting on my TV either, I have normal and wide gamut but i've tried both, its currently not on wide.

Normal is probably BT.709, so you shouldn't get the right colors with DCI-P3. The display must be switching its color management in some way that is screwing up the colors. It seems unlikely madVR is sending the wrong colors to the display. It is doing what you are telling it to. The conversion from Y'CbCr to RGB in any gamut is a standard formula. And I think you are outputting RGB to the display, so the GPU is not changing the output. Something must be going wrong when it reaches the display or the GPU driver is sending the wrong gamut.

The HDMI 1.4 "Content Type" feature could maybe be triggering different color management in the display. Again, the color matrixing math done by madVR wouldn't likely be at fault. I don't think it is that complicated to get proper RGB values from Y'CbCr. Your display is showing incorrect RGB values or it is using the wrong gamut.

Make sure your GPU is set to RGB Full and not Y'CbCr. That conversion done by the GPU could cause your problem if it is not handled correctly. As stated, madVR is known for high-quality Y'CbCr to RGB conversion. It is the least likely part of the chain to screw this up.

[mindz]

Noob question. If a display is not 4:4:4 capable, but all signals that are transmitted in either 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 needs to be upsampled by the display to 4:4:4 and then to RGB, how is a display not capable of 4:4:4 able to upsample the signal to ycbcr 4:4:4 and then to RGB?

[huhn]

nearly "every" display is able to accept 4:4:4 and even RGB.
but for i guess performance reasons they always do a down conversation to 4.2:2 or even 4:2:0 and need specail settings to not do that or are incapable of it.

so the reason is processing and the we don't care attitude of TV engineers.

[nevcairiel]

Noob question. If a display is not 4:4:4 capable, but all signals that are transmitted in either 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 needs to be upsampled by the display to 4:4:4 and then to RGB, how is a display not capable of 4:4:4 able to upsample the signal to ycbcr 4:4:4 and then to RGB?

Usually the limitation comes from a image processing chip that only supports 4:2:2 somewhere in the pipeline. Every TV obviously needs to be able to convert to RGB, because thats what the panels actually display.

[mclingo]

think i'm getting somewhere with this, I just installed a really ancient AMD driver and it fixed it (16.8.1 however before you all tell me its a driver issue, I installed my current driver again and it was still fixed on 18.2.2 which was previously broken, so its driver related but that isnt the full story, could be a driver version had broken something in my setup which the older driver fixed. Colours are now totally fine with calibration off IN MADVR, still dont understand why EVR renderer was outputting correct colours and MADVR not though.

there is a caveat to this though, I tried this driver before and it didnt fix it, however I was using an RX550 then, ive recently upgraded to a an RX460 which is an older generation but faster card.

[theDongerr]

Aloha forum, I have just begun experimenting with HDR->SDR conversion via MadVR and was looking for some pointers to improve performance.

I have been using MadVR for a couple years now in order to scale 1:1 Blu-Ray Rips from 1080p -> 4K and recently have forced all 1080p content to be displayed as 4k60 + MadVR Smooth Motion.

I love the way this looks and honestly could be content with what I am seeing for a long time.

However I am also very interested in playing UHD backups using HDR->SDR conversion. After numerous hours of tinkering with jRiver+Madvr, I finally was able to playback UHD demos at 4k60p RGB 4:4:4 8-bit and the picture. looks. stunning!

It was not easy getting this to work without stutter/choppiness. I had to first disable 'reduce banding effects' and 'reduce ringing effects' in Processing -> Artifact Removal.

Also, the highest setting I could make work in chroma upscaling is "Sharp NGU Low".

I also setup a profile so that if my source material is 4k60p, smooth motion is off. However, and I haven't tested this yet, I would like to use smooth motion with 4k24p material that is played back at 60p... which I'm not sure is doable.

Lastly, and I think this may have a negligible effect. I disable any type of deinterlacing features from Processing->Deinterlacing.

I am currently using a Nvidia GTX 1080 with latest drivers and with the above settings, I can get my render time under 16ms which is enough for stutter-free playback.

Is there anything else that I am missing here or any way I can get better performance out of my GTX 1080? Is NGU Low to resource intensive? Do I need to upgrade to a GTX 1080 Ti?

I'm planning on spending more time experimenting with settings tonight and would appreciate any tips to reduce render time. Also, how can I expand the 'average stats' item on the OSD to show all the processes contributing to my render time?

[Asmodian]

I can use NGU high chroma upscaling, a 3DLUT, smooth motion, and HDR -> SDR when watching UHD on a 4K display. NGU medium chroma upscaling if I want lots of headroom. I do have a Titan XP but I have enough headroom that I would expect NGU low chroma upscaling to run well on a 1080. Actually I would have thought even NGU medium would work.

Are you using D3D11 with present a frame for every v-sync enabled? Try it with and without present a frame for every v-sync.

[theDongerr]

I can use NGU high chroma upscaling, a 3DLUT, smooth motion, and HDR -> SDR when watching UHD on a 4K display. NGU medium chroma upscaling if I want lots of headroom. I do have a Titan XP but I have enough headroom that I would expect NGU low chroma upscaling to run well on a 1080. Actually I would have thought even NGU medium would work.

Are you using D3D11 with present a frame for every v-sync enabled? Try it with and without present a frame for every v-sync.

I also thought that the GTX1080 should be pretty adequate for what I'm trying to do. I'm about to power on all my equipment and give that D3D11 toggle a shot.

A million thankyous!!:)

[theDongerr]

I can use NGU high chroma upscaling, a 3DLUT, smooth motion, and HDR -> SDR when watching UHD on a 4K display. NGU medium chroma upscaling if I want lots of headroom. I do have a Titan XP but I have enough headroom that I would expect NGU low chroma upscaling to run well on a 1080. Actually I would have thought even NGU medium would work.

Are you using D3D11 with present a frame for every v-sync enabled? Try it with and without present a frame for every v-sync.

Toggling the option you mentioned does not affect my render time. I am noticing dropped frames though, which seems odd if I'm not doing any scaling. Here is a shot of my OSD, maybe you can see something that I don't?
16308
https://postimg.cc/image/630ay9qrb/

[Warner306]

The movie frame rate is 60 fps. That is a very difficult video to render quickly. That's why your stats are suffering.

Almost all UHD movies (not demos) are 24 fps, so you should be able to crank up your settings considerably with real program material until rendering times are 35-37ms, not 16ms.

[Warner306]

Noob question. If a display is not 4:4:4 capable, but all signals that are transmitted in either 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 needs to be upsampled by the display to 4:4:4 and then to RGB, how is a display not capable of 4:4:4 able to upsample the signal to ycbcr 4:4:4 and then to RGB?

I don't know how your display gets from 4:2:2 to RGB, but this helped me understand it: https://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/an97/an9717.pdf.

Unless this is the last step in the display's processing, many displays can't keep the signal at 4:4:4 from input to output and have to downconvert to 4:2:2 to save bandwidth.

[huhn]

are you running some image enhancements.
upscaling chroma and HDR->SDR is not the type of a killer.

and check your GPU power settings.

[Warner306]

This link is also helpful in showing the damage done by lowering the chroma to 4:2:2 before reconstructing it: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1614315#post1614315.

[Asmodian]

Toggling the option you mentioned does not affect my render time. I am noticing dropped frames though, which seems odd if I'm not doing any scaling.

I agree with Warner306, 15.5ms is too slow for a 16.68ms frame time. Try to get your rendering times below ~14ms.

Exactly how much extra time you need seems to be somewhat system dependent. I have been fine with 1ms extra or needed 5ms extra with different configurations. :scared:

Have you tried DX9? Always try every mode available. ;)
I have had DX9 Overlay help with using every last bit of GPU power in the past, it uses a fast low level hardware "present".

Edit: Do not pay too much attention to the exact rendering times reported by madVR. They are estimates and different options may allow higher or lower reported average rendering times without dropped frames. I would never expect the D3D11 present frame every v-sync option to change the reported rendering time but it can change the number of presentation glitches or dropped frames.

[ryrynz]

Also, the highest setting I could make work in chroma upscaling is "Sharp NGU Low".


NGU is quite demanding for chroma for UHD to HD and based on the minimal differences I saw with chroma in this situation I personally have this set to JINC with no AR on my 1060. Give it a shot.

[theDongerr]

The movie frame rate is 60 fps. That is a very difficult video to render quickly. That's why your stats are suffering.

Almost all UHD movies (not demos) are 24 fps, so you should be able to crank up your settings considerably with real program material until rendering times are 35-37ms, not 16ms.

I want to convert any 24 fps material to 60 fps and utilize smooth motion. I really enjoy this presentation when scaling 1080p24 -> 2160p60 + Smooth motion. My display doesn't handle native 24fps very well in my opinion. MadVR fixes that for me without any SOE effect.

are you running some image enhancements.
upscaling chroma and HDR->SDR is not the type of a killer.

and check your GPU power settings.

I am not running any other image enhancements. All 'trade quality for performance' is unchecked as well except for 'dont render fade in/out'

Do I check GPU power settings in the BIOS? Is there a number I should looking/aiming for?

I agree with Warner306, 15.5ms is too slow for a 16.68ms frame time. Try to get your rendering times below ~14ms.

Have you tried DX9? Always try every mode available. ;)
I have had DX9 Overlay help with using every last bit of GPU power in the past, it uses a fast low level hardware "present".



To try DX9 do I just uncheck the 'use Direct3D 11 for presentation' ? I am going to spend some time toggling these options in the morning.

NGU is quite demanding for chroma for UHD to SD and based on the minimal differencesi saw with chroma in this situation I personally have this set to JINC with no AR on my 1060. Give it a shot.

Worth a shot!! Thanks!!

[Asmodian]

To try DX9 do I just uncheck the 'use Direct3D 11 for presentation' ? I am going to spend some time toggling these options in the morning.

Yes, DX9 is the non-D3D11 default. Overlay is the one that is the most different but definitely play with them.

[zaemon]

Does anyone have any trick for the « GPU driver rejected this mode for no reason »? I can use custom modes with UHD resolution but not with 4K resolution. Every custom mode in 4K is rejected. And I really want to keep using 4K resolution as I have a native 4K projector (very useful with 2:35 sources with auto black bar cropping).

Without custom mode in 4K, I have 1 frame repeat every 4 minutes and I really see the difference (compared to UHD custom mode: 1 frame repeat every 1-2h).

[Warner306]

Does anyone have any trick for the « GPU driver rejected this mode for no reason »? I can use custom modes with UHD resolution but not with 4K resolution. Every custom mode in 4K is rejected. And I really want to keep using 4K resolution as I have a native 4K projector (very useful with 2:35 sources with auto black bar cropping).

Without custom mode in 4K, I have 1 frame repeat every 4 minutes and I really see the difference (compared to UHD custom mode: 1 frame repeat every 1-2h).

The only solution I found to this problem was a clean install of the drivers. Be warned that this might not fix anything, but it is likely all you can do if the optimizations have been calculated correctly. Perhaps, start over and play the video a little longer to make sure the optimizations were calculated correctly? Also, avoid the "reset GPU" feature. If you did this, then definitely reinstall the drivers. That was part of my problem.

[Warner306]

I want to convert any 24 fps material to 60 fps and utilize smooth motion. I really enjoy this presentation when scaling 1080p24 -> 2160p60 + Smooth motion. My display doesn't handle native 24fps very well in my opinion. MadVR fixes that for me without any SOE effect.

There is a difference between the frame rate of the video and the refresh rate of the display. madVR does not convert a 24 fps source to 60 fps; it feeds it to the display with 3/2 pulldown, so it is still rendering a 24 fps image.

The 60 fps video is native 60 fps. That is your problem. A new frame is drawn every 16.68ms, so your render times have to be very fast. If you took a native 24 fps source (like most real UHD material), a new frame is drawn every 41.71ms, so your total render times could be as high as 35-37ms, which is much higher than 16.68ms. This gives you more headroom for more demanding settings.

If you are using Error Diffusion dithering with 4K content, switch to Ordered. This can eat up a lot of performance for little gain; especially, if you are outputting at 10-bits from madVR.

[asagala]

My madVR setup runs perfectly. NGU Sharp,etc... thanks to many of you on this forum.

However, I do have a question concerning refresh rate switching. Should I have both 2160p59 and 2160p60 configured in madVR or only one of the two? I currently have both and it seems that its always 2160p59 that is being used.

[Warner306]

My madVR setup runs perfectly. NGU Sharp,etc... thanks to many of you on this forum.

However, I do have a question concerning refresh rate switching. Should I have both 2160p59 and 2160p60 configured in madVR or only one of the two? I currently have both and it seems that its always 2160p59 that is being used.

30 fps content is possible, but you are unlikely to encounter it. Might as well leave it there just in case. There is no harm. Just like 24 fps content is possible when most is 23.976 fps.

[e-t172]

PSA: 120 Hz FreeSync TVs are coming. (https://www.blurbusters.com/new-120hz-freesync-televisions-by-samsung-coming-this-year/) Presumably madshi might be interested in this information when it comes to prioritizing madVR features. Historically, things like very high refresh rates (e.g. for BFI) and variable sync support were put in the backburner mostly because they were irrelevant to home cinema setups (and also because the APIs are not designed for the video use case, but maybe that can be worked around).

[nevcairiel]

PSA: 120 Hz FreeSync TVs are coming. (https://www.blurbusters.com/new-120hz-freesync-televisions-by-samsung-coming-this-year/) Presumably madshi might be interested in this information when it comes to prioritizing madVR features. Historically, things like very high refresh rates (e.g. for BFI) and variable sync support were put in the backburner mostly because they were irrelevant to home cinema setups (and also because the APIs are not designed for the video use case, but maybe that can be worked around).

Seems like a bad deal to use 1080p on 4K TV to use that feature for video playback (not to mention that the resistance to implementing support for GSYNC/FreeSync was not only the limitation of this to gaming monitors, but also technical challenges, since video rendering is quite a bit different to game rendering)

[e-t172]

I agree, though it's not exactly clear from that news post what the 1080p restriction is about. Maybe it only applies to 120 Hz, not to FreeSync.

[mrmojo666]

think i'm getting somewhere with this, I just installed a really ancient AMD driver and it fixed it (16.8.1 however before you all tell me its a driver issue, I installed my current driver again and it was still fixed on 18.2.2 which was previously broken, so its driver related but that isnt the full story, could be a driver version had broken something in my setup which the older driver fixed. Colours are now totally fine with calibration off IN MADVR, still dont understand why EVR renderer was outputting correct colours and MADVR not though.

there is a caveat to this though, I tried this driver before and it didnt fix it, however I was using an RX550 then, ive recently upgraded to a an RX460 which is an older generation but faster card.

Hi, my fault, i didn't remember that issue appears only when i play <=24 fps with output 10bit, so it is still happening :( when i wrote that is not happing I tested with tv progrm that is 50i (so output is 10bit).....
i can say that is happening with dx11 + FSE 10bit.

what I miss if i use windows instead of FSE. what have more FSE from windowed ?

If i want to try to get back to 16.8.1, i need to clean in some way or i can just uninstall 18.3.4, install 16.81 then upgrade to 18.3.4 ?

THank you

[mclingo]

where its always best to use DDU cleaner when installing drivers for problems I didnt on this occasion. I had already jumped from 18.3.4 to 18.2.2 so I jumped to 16.8.1 where it was fixed and then back to 18.2.2 and it remained fixed. What I should do really is jump back to 18.3.4 but 18.3xxx drivers cause my PC to randomly hang, oddly mainly when I'm connecting to it via RDP and not actually using the GFX card, I think its crashing when it goes into lower power mode.

my system is now back to being stable again with 18.2.2, no crashes, no HDMI loss on stop, D3D all working, HDR working. i've moved back to using MPC and KODI DS refesh rate changing, MADVR refresh rate changing still causes HDMI loss for me on 3D movie stop but its been written off as a driver issue which I guess it could be.

[Manni]

Quick update on nVidia drivers status:

Tested with 1080ti and CP set to 4K23 RGB 4:4:4 12bits full, display is a JVC RS500 set to HDMI Standard (levels limited), so MadVR’s levels normally set to limited (16-235). I’m using D3D11 copyback as I need the auto aspect ratio / zoom (disabled in native/auto). Of course YMMV. Full config described in sig.

- All drivers work in 3D here but batch files are needed to set 3D mode before playback. This can be done with the command file using profiles. Otherwise registry changes do not stick. I need FSE to get 3D to work, I know others don’t but I have no idea why. Sadly I get a frame drop every 3mn or so in 3D, so far from ideal.
- Last driver fully working here for both SDR and HDR is 385.28. I thought there was a bug in Atmos with this driver (SBs sent to SRs) but it looks like it was an OS issue, I couldn’t reproduce it with Win 10 pro X64 build 1709. So as far as I can see it’s the last fully working driver.
- All drivers post 385.28 prevent from selecting 12bits when a custom mode is selected. If selecting 12bits from a standard mode, the bit depth option is greyed out when a custom mode is selected but the correct bit depth is applied (12bits up to 30p, 8bits above). This is done automatically, and it sticks here. So a very minor issue once you know the workaround. I use a MadVR custom mode that gives more than one hour between each drop in 4K23. I upscale everything to 4K (except 3D) so 1080p not tested (others have issues with 1080p apparently).
- All drivers from 390.65 are breaking compatibility with Asio4all and most Asio drivers. Solution is to use FlexAsio.
- 390.65 has a levels issue. Despite the fact that the GPU is set to full and my display is set to limited, I have to set MadVr to full (0-255) to get the correct levels. No idea why. Using MadLevelstweak.exe makes no difference. There doesn’t seem to be a downside, although having MadVR set to 0-255 when the display expects limited levels is clearly incorrect (in theory). But that’s the only way to get the correct levels with 390.65.
- All 391.xx drivers have borked levels, at least here with my display. I urge you to check your levels both in SDR and HDR if you’re using any of these. Changing MadVR’s levels to 0-255 or 16-235 makes no difference. Using MadLevelsTweaker.exe doesn’t help. The levels are borked, I couldn’t find to get them right without raising the black levels in HDR, even when setting the display in enhanced mode.
- All drivers from 385.28 (I didn’t try earlier) have minor banding in HDR passthrough mode with 10bits in windowed mode. This minor banding goes away using pixel shader or FSE. The banding seems less pronounced when using 0-255 in MadVR. So if using passthrough in 10bits mode, it’s recommended to set it to 8bits in MadVR. This adds a minor amount of noise, but it’s less visible than the banding.

So if you’re a gamer and need a fairly recent driver, 390.65 is the least compromised recent driver.

If you’re not a gamer or want Asio4all, then 385.28 is the last fully working option.

Of course, this is here, in my setup, as described. This might not be true for others, whether the setup is the same or not, but I thought posting this might be helpful.

Not related to nVidia drivers, but as a new build is about to be released with improved HDR to SDR conversion, there seems to be a bug in pixel shader when BT2390 is selected along with xysubfilter subtitles in MPC-BE. The brightness level switches if “calculate average nits” is selected. Disabling “calculate average nits”, selecting the internal sub renderer in MPC-BE, or selecting HDR passthrough or an Arve curve instead of BT2390 resolves the issue. Madshi wasn’t able to reproduce, so if anyone experiences this bug with the upcoming MadVR release please let us know. A good test for this is the very beginning of The Revenant. The brightness shifts when the first subtitle appears during the opening pan shot.

[oldpainlesskodi]

@Manni - I feel your pain...been there!

Have you tried 382.53? With this driver you can select 12 or 8 bit in custom modes. Also, the levels are correct, Atmos works as it should as does HDR switching.

I went one step further and completely disabled the stupid sRGB.icc profile from my device and disabled WindowsColorSystem permanently from starting via Task Scheduler - on my set up, the difference is night and day.

K

[Manni]

@Manni - I feel your pain...been there!

Have you tried 382.53? With this driver you can select 12 or 8 bit in custom modes. Also, the levels are correct, Atmos works as it should as does HDR switching.

I went one step further and completely disabled the stupid sRGB.icc profile from my device and disabled WindowsColorSystem permanently from starting via Task Scheduler - on my set up, the difference is night and day.

K

Thanks but there is no pain. I only thought I'd share my findings in case it helps others.

385.28 work just as well as 382.53 here, so I don't see any reason to go back further.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Thanks but there is no pain. I only thought I'd share my findings in case it helps others.

385.28 work just as well as 382.53 here, so I don't see any reason to go back further.

Me too, but ok.

[brazen1]

All drivers work in 3D here but batch files are needed to set 3D mode before playback. This can be done with the command file using profiles. Otherwise registry changes do not stick.

I use batch files that launch via KODI using its playercorefactory.xml feature. Of course, they are only going to launch using KODI. Running naked, Windows Explorer for example, I need to manually engage nvstlink.exe (aka stereoscopic in NCP) before 3D playback.

You write you are launching batch files with a command file using profiles. I have no idea what this means but interests me since I assume these .bats are launching from madVR potentially providing another avenue to engage NCP stereoscopic than the KODI playercorefactory.xml keeping everything automated.

Please, please, be kind enough to elaborate how you do this in detail as if explaining to a 4 year old so I have a perfect understanding.

[brazen1]

RE: which NVidia drivers and why, here is copy paste from where I originally posted this a couple weeks ago, fwiw. You may not be aware of the audio problem I encountered. I'm using 385.69 but as Manni pointed out, custom modes with 12bit does not work so I too will probably revert to 385.28. A shame we have to use drivers this old.

I have discovered what I assume is another bug introduced by NVidia drivers. Yesterday I decided to work it out. The problem:

Right click your volume icon with your AVR OFF or in standby using passthrough. It should be setup for Stereo.
Now, turn your AVR ON. It should be setup for 5.1 or 7.1 etc. (What ever you use during video playback)
This should automate between stereo and 7.1 (for example) as you toggle your AVR off and on. If it doesn't, you will have to manually change it. If you forget, high bitrate audios will malfunction (audio filter errors) during video playback mode and/or youtube videos from desktop mode will not start.

Not knowing if this was associated with a Windows update or something else, I decided to install NVidia drivers working backwards to rule them out as the culprit or find a working driver to identify where the problem originated.
Eventually the audio setup started working as intended and I've concluded it is an NVidia driver issue. Here's what I installed and concluded using DDU between installs:

391.35-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Audio problem.
391.24-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Audio problem.
391.01-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Audio problem.
390.65-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Audio problem. This is the driver the audio problem was introduced.
All of these drivers also cannot retain a 12bit setting after a reboot but you should be using 8bit anyway since 12bit introduces banding unless your display handles 12bit native properly.

388.59-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Does not turn HDR off after HDR playback but Audio switching problem is not present. This was the last good driver for audio switching.
387.92-desktop-win10-64bit-international-rs3-whql.exe = Does not turn HDR on prior to HDR playback.
385.69-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Working properly for HDR and Audio switching but any mouse movement turns 3D into 2D briefly. This is the driver I have reverted to. This also means I will need to use FSE.
385.28-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Working properly for HDR and Audio switching.
These drivers survive a reboot when using 12bit but again, you should be using 8bit unless your display handles 12bit native properly.

Understanding Nvidia has worked out many bugs, it now has these:

No 10bit selection when using RGB.
No auto switch from stereo to multiple speaker setup in Windows Audio considering if AVR state is On or Off.
Audio Video sync for common refresh rates such as 23.976 f/ps leads to dropped frames without creating custom timings.

[Sunset1982]

I maybe found a bug today. After I exchanged my GPU I tried to lower the luma settings from NGUSharp Very High to Mid and nothing happened. I can change it to NGUStandard mid or high, but within NGUSharp I can't change anything.

Is this a known bug madshi?

[Warner306]

I maybe found a bug today. After I exchanged my GPU I tried to lower the luma settings from NGUSharp Very High to Mid and nothing happened. I can change it to NGUStandard mid or high, but within NGUSharp I can't change anything.

Is this a known bug madshi?

This happened to me once. I had to reset madVR settings.

[Manni]

You write you are launching batch files with a command file using profiles. I have no idea what this means but interests me since I assume these .bats are launching from madVR potentially providing another avenue to engage NCP stereoscopic than the KODI playercorefactory.xml keeping everything automated.

Please, please, be kind enough to elaborate how you do this in detail as if explaining to a 4 year old so I have a perfect understanding.

Profiles are explained in the third post of this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1271417#post1271417) in detail, so please read this first and ask any questions not answered there. I don't have the time or the inclination to explain this as if to a 4 year old, maybe someone else will :)

Once you have created a profile that tests for 3D, in the 3D profile (for example in processing) you simply specify the name of your batch file to enable 3D in the field "command line to execute when this profile is activated".

Provided your profiles are well defined, the batch file will be launched every time 3D content is played.

Here is my condition for my profiles in processing:

if (3D) "3D"
else if (srcWidth <= 720) and (srcHeight <= 576)"SD"
else if (srcWidth <= 1280) and (srcHeight <= 720)"HD"
else if (srcWidth <= 1920) and (srcHeight <= 1080)"FHD"
else if (srcWidth <= 3840) and (srcHeight <= 2160)"UHD"
else "4K"

When the 3D profile is activated, it launches my batch file enabling 3D.

Here is the content of my file:


REM Necessary header for importing .reg file.
> "%temp%\Update3DSettings.reg" ECHO Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
>> "%temp%\Update3DSettings.reg" ECHO.

REM Decide which CPU architecture- to set the proper registry keys for x86 and x64.
REM Using GOTO instead of IF THEN ELSE because of better compatibility.
REM Assume x86 as the architecture.
SET "KEY=[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D]"
REM Reset the key if that's not right.
IF "%PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE%"=="x86" GOTO EchoKey
SET "KEY=[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D]"
:EchoKey
>> "%temp%\Update3DSettings.reg" ECHO %KEY%

REM Now the series of registry dwords for that \Stereo3D key.
REM Let's auto-enable 3D, without going through the test.
REM Bypass the Medical Test
>> "%temp%\Update3DSettings.reg" ECHO "StereoVisionConfirmed"=dword:00000001
REM Reset from Discover
>> "%temp%\Update3DSettings.reg" ECHO "StereoViewerType"=dword:00000001

REM Now let's import registry file
REM /s is used to avoid an "Are you sure" prompt
regedit.exe /s "%temp%\Update3DSettings.reg"

REM -- No registry key for Enable stereoscopic 3D checkbox, so we'll directly
REM call the activation tool. Change path if this is not correct.
REM We call for both 32 bit and 64 bit. If one fails it's not a problem.
CALL "C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation\3D Vision\nvstlink.exe" /enable
CALL "C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\3D Vision\nvstlink.exe" /enable



All of these drivers also cannot retain a 12bit setting after a reboot but you should be using 8bit anyway since 12bit introduces banding.


This isn't true. 12bits only introduces banding in HDR passthrough using Windows 10 in windowed mode, at least here. There is no banding in 12bits if you use FSE with passthrough, or if you use pixel shader (full screen windowed mode or FSE) instead of passthrough.

This is with a display able to handle 12bits of course. If your display doesn't support 12bits, then you can have banding in 12bits and will have to use 8bits in that case.

I can confirm that the JVC projectors from 2015 (so starting with RS400/500/600/5000/7000/9000) support 12bits natively from inputs to panels and that there is no banding in 12bits provided you use FSE if HDR passthrough, or pixel shader in either FSE or full screen windowed.

[brazen1]

Thank you for sharing. This is very useful info encouraging me to make some changes and experiment.

Yes, I understand native 12bit displays do not need to use RGB 8bit (since RGB 10bit is not offered) to avoid banding. When madshi wrote to use 8bit, I was only focusing on 10bit native displays that do not handle 12bit proper enough to dither down to 10bit. My bad. I'll edit appropriately.

[huhn]

because your Tv doesn't handle 12 bit correctly doesn't many other have the same problem.

i'm even at a point that i never saw a SDR Tv with 12 input problem yet.

not dithering 12 bit down to 10 bit shouldn't show a terrible banding especial if the real image is dithered 10 bit. truncated could even be perfect for such a situation.

and the real known issue is with HDR and 10 bit windowed mode only. which is a clear driver problem not a display problem.

[Sunset1982]

This happened to me once. I had to reset madVR settings.

Thx, I will try to reset the settings.

[theDongerr]

There is a difference between the frame rate of the video and the refresh rate of the display. madVR does not convert a 24 fps source to 60 fps; it feeds it to the display with 3/2 pulldown, so it is still rendering a 24 fps image.

The 60 fps video is native 60 fps. That is your problem. A new frame is drawn every 16.68ms, so your render times have to be very fast. If you took a native 24 fps source (like most real UHD material), a new frame is drawn every 41.71ms, so your total render times could be as high as 35-37ms, which is much higher than 16.68ms. This gives you more headroom for more demanding settings.

If you are using Error Diffusion dithering with 4K content, switch to Ordered. This can eat up a lot of performance for little gain; especially, if you are outputting at 10-bits from madVR.

Ok, makes sense and thank you for responding.

Question: Since I am running my GPU at 2160p60, Full RGB 4:4:4 8-bit. Should I be telling MadVR that my display's native bitdepth is 8-bit or 10bits (or higher)?

Is it possible that my render time is higher than it could be because I have 10 bit (or higher) selected in MadVR despite MadVR dithering 12-bit down to 8-bit?

[Asmodian]

Question: Since I am running my GPU at 2160p60, Full RGB 4:4:4 8-bit. Should I be telling MadVR that my display's native bitdepth is 8-bit or 10bits (or higher)?

8-bit. If you send your GPU >8-bit it simply dithers it to 8-bit so you get two dithering steps, madVR dithers to 10-bit then the GPU dithers that to 8-bit. madVR's dithering is higher quality and two dithering steps adds more noise than needed if you can do the bit depth conversion in one step.

Is it possible that my render time is higher than it could be because I have 10 bit (or higher) selected in MadVR despite MadVR dithering 12-bit down to 8-bit?

No, dithering to 10 bit is not any harder than dithering to 8-bit. madVR cannot dither to >10 bit, it is always dithering from its internal 16 bit data to 10 or few bits. madVR always does its dithering in one step at the end of the rendering pipeline, if it outputs 8 bit it always dithers directly to 8 bit.