Log in

View Full Version : madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)


Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 [813] 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167 1168 1169 1170 1171 1172 1173 1174 1175 1176 1177 1178 1179 1180 1181 1182 1183 1184 1185 1186 1187 1188 1189 1190 1191 1192 1193 1194 1195 1196 1197 1198 1199 1200 1201 1202 1203 1204 1205 1206 1207 1208 1209 1210 1211 1212 1213 1214 1215 1216 1217 1218 1219 1220 1221 1222 1223 1224 1225 1226 1227 1228 1229 1230 1231 1232 1233 1234 1235 1236 1237 1238 1239 1240 1241 1242 1243 1244 1245 1246 1247 1248 1249 1250 1251 1252 1253 1254 1255 1256 1257 1258 1259 1260 1261 1262 1263 1264 1265 1266 1267 1268 1269 1270 1271 1272 1273 1274 1275 1276 1277 1278 1279 1280 1281 1282 1283 1284 1285 1286 1287 1288 1289 1290 1291 1292 1293 1294 1295 1296 1297 1298 1299 1300 1301 1302 1303 1304 1305 1306 1307 1308 1309 1310 1311 1312 1313 1314 1315 1316 1317 1318 1319 1320 1321 1322 1323 1324 1325 1326 1327 1328 1329

Warner306
22nd November 2016, 23:16
How many NGU users are using soften edges or add grain?

seiyafan
22nd November 2016, 23:19
Interesting, I remember the days when Catmull-Rom LL was the most popular downscaler, so now it's bicubic 150 (do you also turn the LL on)?

Hyllian
22nd November 2016, 23:25
Congrats, madshi! By looking at the comparison pictures, the envelope is pushed a little further. The results are amazing, mainly with good sources. I wonder how it would perform with retro games!

I suppose it'll stay closed source undefinitly, right? (I hope someday it'll be released.)

Is it totally based on shaders? Multipasses? Multialgorithms or is it just one algorithm?

Sp00kyFox
22nd November 2016, 23:45
anyone else having issues with NNEDI3 lately? it gives me extreme graphical artifacts, doesn't matter which version I use. it's definitely not a heat or performance issue.

http://i.imgur.com/T323PcV.jpg

I'm using a GTX 760 (2GB VRAM) with driver version 375.95. don't know when it was the last time I tried this filter, so maybe it's a driver issue or a problem with this specific GPU?

ryrynz
22nd November 2016, 23:55
anyone else having issues with NNEDI3 lately?

Not sure why you posted a screenshot with such extreme settings (500ms render time.. WTF) and then say it's not performance related..
Why not actually set some usable settings and see what happens, perhaps this is related in some way to using particular scalers together. So just try NNEDI3 by itself without killing your card slowly..
First step, disable NGU on chroma..

thighhighs
23rd November 2016, 00:11
anyone else having issues with NNEDI3 lately? it gives me extreme graphical artifacts, doesn't matter which version I use. it's definitely not a heat or performance issue.

http://i.imgur.com/T323PcV.jpg

I'm using a GTX 760 (2GB VRAM) with driver version 375.95. don't know when it was the last time I tried this filter, so maybe it's a driver issue or a problem with this specific GPU?You use madvr\player x32 on windows x64? I have same artifacts when i use madvr x32 + nnedi image doubling on win10 x64. madvr x64 work fine. gtx 690, gtx660ti

fedpul
23rd November 2016, 00:22
anyone else having issues with NNEDI3 lately? it gives me extreme graphical artifacts, doesn't matter which version I use. it's definitely not a heat or performance issue.

http://i.imgur.com/T323PcV.jpg

I'm using a GTX 760 (2GB VRAM) with driver version 375.95. don't know when it was the last time I tried this filter, so maybe it's a driver issue or a problem with this specific GPU?
Probably you are exceeding the VRAM limits with that settings. Try lower settings, those are extreme as already mentioned before.

Enviado desde mi MI 4LTE mediante Tapatalk

Mikey2
23rd November 2016, 00:25
Even though my computer can process most of the awesome super advanced scaling algorithms, am I alone in still liking "SoftCubic" the most for Chroma Upscaling?

Image(Luma) is a different story; I like a super sharp, yet non-aliased luma algorithm. But that only makes the juxtaposition of the ultra-smooth colors all the more pleasing!

The same goes for 1080P source material, where only Chroma Upscaling is used!

Sp00kyFox
23rd November 2016, 00:31
I wonder how it would perform with retro games!
with real pixelart, not good. with downscaled drawings or renderings it works great though as expected. here are some examples, the last one works best with this filter:
https://imgur.com/a/TnTFW

Not sure why you posted a screenshot with such extreme settings (500ms render time.. WTF) and then say it's not performance related..
I already tried minimal settings with NNEDI3 with the same result. my target was not to run the filter in realtime but to compare it with others. but if you insist:
http://i.imgur.com/uiFEUqm.jpg

to repeat myself, the problem is not performance related.

You use madvr\player x32 on windows x64? I have same artifacts when i use madvr x32 + nnedi image doubling on win10 x64. madvr x64 work fine. gtx 690, gtx660ti
yeah, maybe. I'm using ZoomPlayer which is only available as a 32bit application. probably time to use another software.

ryrynz
23rd November 2016, 00:36
to repeat myself, the problem is not performance related.


Nobody else has this problem, it's related to your setup.
Try a proper removal and clean up of your drivers and reinstall, also disable any and every other application, ideally do a diagnostic startup through msconfig and try again.

Sp00kyFox
23rd November 2016, 00:51
Nobody else has this problem, it's related to your setup.
I didn't state that this were the case. I actually asked if anyone else experienced this issue and as you can see someone did. so your claim that no one else has this problem is already false.

Try a proper removal and clean up of your drivers and reinstall, also disable any and every other application, ideally do a diagnostic startup through msconfig and try again.
no other applications were running at the time of capturing and if you've read my post you should know that I just installed a new GPU driver.
inb4: format c and reinstall windows :sly:

thighhighs got it right. I just tried it with MPC-HC and the problem is still there with the x32 version but gone with the x64 version.

austonrush
23rd November 2016, 00:53
How many NGU users are using soften edges or add grain?

I'm using both :). At a level of one each. Since Add grain was fixed it has grown on me for real life video (I don't use it for animation). Soften edges is a must with NGU.

austonrush
23rd November 2016, 00:59
I'm not liking any version of NGU for lower quality SD content. It significantly enhances artifacts and blocking. NNEDI3 64 with SR2 or SR3 performs much better in this space. Anyone else tested this. I don't have images to post right now but, it was not hard to see.

My current profiles are setup to use NGU image doubling for 720 and 1080 content. I'm sticking with NNEDI3 SR2 for low def content.

Warner306
23rd November 2016, 01:02
I'm using both :). At a level of one each. Since Add grain was fixed it has grown on me for real life video (I don't use it for animation). Soften edges is a must with NGU.

So far, I agree soften edges is a must have. Haven't played with add grain. Neither option appears to hamper performance much.

Scyna
23rd November 2016, 01:04
thighhighs got it right. I just tried it with MPC-HC and the problem is still there with the x32 version but gone with the x64 version.

I have the exact same problem you have except I get no video just audio. The queues also stay at 1/1. I'm on win 10 64x MSI Nvidia 1070 laptop 375.95 drivers.

ryrynz
23rd November 2016, 01:05
I didn't stated that this were the case. I actually asked if anyone else experienced this issue and as you can see someone did. so your claim that no one else has this problem is already false.


I've not seen this listed as an issue. You found the one guy that experienced it.. Congrats, now lose the attitude.


no other applications were running at the time of capturing and if you've read my post you should know that I just installed a new GPU driver.
inb4: format c and reinstall windows :sly:


So? Installing a new driver doesn't always fix issues. What you're doing is just bypassing the issue with the driver working in 32 bit, so reverting or doing what I said may just fix it. inb4: I actually know what I'm doing but yet here I am using a 32 bit player :P

I have the exact same problem you have except I get no video just audio. The queues also stay at 1/1. I'm on win 10 64x MSI Nvidia 1070 laptop 375.95 drivers.

Try earlier drivers or completely remove the old set and reinstall. This probably isn't an issue across the entire set released by Nvidia and doesn't appear to be related to a specific family of cards.
I have no issues using the latest drivers on my 960 with a 32 bit player, so you shouldn't either..

Sp00kyFox
23rd November 2016, 02:12
I've not seen this listed as an issue. You found the one guy that experienced it.. Congrats, now lose the attitude.
two guys, see Scynas post. and what attitude? I wasn't trying to anger or lecture you. maybe don't assume people are stupid before acting all so snippy and we can all help each other out in a friendly tone.

So? Installing a new driver doesn't always fix issues. What you're doing is just bypassing the issue with the driver working in 32 bit, so reverting or doing what I said may just fix it.
I didn't claim that installing a new driver would fix the issue. I just installed a new one recently but the problem was already there with the previous one. and did you read my posts? it does NOT work in 32bit but in 64bit.

inb4: I actually know what I'm doing but yet here I am using a 32 bit player :P
you're not the only one who knows how to properly handle a computer. yet here I am, a computer scientist who knows what he's doing and it's still not working in 32bit players. that's why I asked for help in the first place not because I'm too lazy to look for a solution.

I have no issues using the latest drivers on my 960 with a 32 bit player, so you shouldn't either..
there are more components to a system then the GPU and its driver. reminds me of gaming forums where "but it works fine here so you're the problem" is a common answer.
now, to cite you, lose the attitude. you could start by telling us what OS, what player and what render path in madvr you use and maybe we can figure out together what the issue is.

huhn
23rd November 2016, 02:24
what decoder is used?

Hyllian
23rd November 2016, 02:24
with real pixelart, not good. with downscaled drawings or renderings it works great though as expected. here are some examples, the last one works best with this filter:
https://imgur.com/a/TnTFW

Thanks for the images. Waifu2x presents the same behavior too. They have very similar outputs. It should be great with pre-rendered games.

Sp00kyFox
23rd November 2016, 02:56
what decoder is used?
on my side it's LAVFilters v0.68.1-35. I usually use it with DXVA2 (copy-back) but I just tried all the other options with no success.

Thanks for the images. Waifu2x presents the same behavior too. They have very similar outputs. It should be great with pre-rendered games.
no problem. the challenge would be to seperate the image between pre-rendered elements and pixelart or 3D objects. maybe a similar approach like you once did with xBR does also work with NGU.

Backflash
23rd November 2016, 07:23
to repeat myself, the problem is not performance related.


Do videogames run fine? If you didn't try probably VRAM is fried or slowly dying. Chip itself might be giving out such artifacts as well.
Does it crash your system? It soon will. I fried a few cards this way.
Which brand?

I think people need a disclaimer to stop running scalers that spin GPUs to max temperatures on lower end hardware or weak brands, it's really easy to ruin videocard with NNDI3 specially if you like to watch some series whole weekend non stop like me, games are much more tame temperature wise.

Also this is why I switched to NGU, it doesn't 100% my GPU(r9 390) all the time like NNDI3, I like when it's 55C' on a moderate load.

burfadel
23rd November 2016, 07:29
I agrree Backflash, that looks like video memory corruption. It's one of the side affects you can get from overclocking too high, it might not necessarily crash. I'm not suggesting he was overclocking, just using that as an example. It could be something else as well of course, it's just one possibility that seems most likely at this stage. The settings used seems very overkill though.

ryrynz
23rd November 2016, 07:46
Do videogames run fine? If you didn't try probably VRAM is fried or slowly dying. Chip itself might be giving out such artifacts as well.


Switching to a 64 bit media player fixes it so it's obviously driver related.


I agrree Backflash, that looks like video memory corruption.


Definitely corruption but I'm guessing he wanted to know the cause.


The settings used seems very overkill though.

It was, pretty silly to say it's not related to performance then post a screenshot with the most extreme settings.. but whatever.


two guys, see Scynas post. and what attitude? I wasn't trying to anger or lecture you. maybe don't assume people are stupid before acting all so snippy and we can all help each other out in a friendly tone.


Not posting like your stupid is a good start.


I didn't claim that installing a new driver would fix the issue. I just installed a new one recently but the problem was already there with the previous one. and did you read my posts? it does NOT work in 32bit but in 64bit.


Cool story bro. Tell me about the driver that came before that and the one before that.. same issue? Tell me about all the ones you tried?
Oh wait, that would've been the smart thing to do when first posting. Because troubleshooting is the obvious smart thing to do before doing so, and you did none so...


you're not the only one who knows how to properly handle a computer. yet here I am, a computer scientist who knows what he's doing and it's still not working in 32bit players. that's why I asked for help in the first place not because I'm too lazy to look for a solution.


Obviously.. you just needed to take a few minutes to troubleshoot, which you didn't. If that's not lazy...


there are more components to a system then the GPU and its driver. reminds me of gaming forums where "but it works fine here so you're the problem" is a common answer.


When it's only related to NNEDI3? When it's only happening on 32 bit players? When hardly anyone else is having the same issue?
C'mon now.. where are all the arrows pointing?


now, to cite you, lose the attitude. you could start by telling us what OS, what player and what render path in madvr you use and maybe we can figure out together what the issue is.

That's rich considering how you chose to repond first, but whatever.
375.95, Windows 10 14393.447, GTX 960 madVR 0.91.1

Now just do what I said and uninstall your drivers properly and try at least a few different previous versions if not more if you care.
Thing is you shouldn't really be using a 32 bit player without good reason anyway which I'll assume you're not now and hence no more issue.. but if you were interested in resolving it, that's where I'd start.
I'd probably reset madVR to defaults too if previous drivers versions changed nothing.

MariaX9
23rd November 2016, 07:59
How many NGU users are using soften edges or add grain?

I use soften edges 2 atm.

Smithy
23rd November 2016, 08:09
DXVA2 Copy Back, ED2 + colored + change, Fullscreen Window Mode (8 backbuffer) D3D9 old path, CPU64/GPU24
no General Settings Checked, no Image Enhancements Checked and no Trade Quality for Performence Checked
reduce Banding High/High, reduce Ringing only
Chroma ReconSoft SR2, Image Upscaling Jinc AR SL, Image Downscaling Bicubic 150 AR LL

SD 720x404 25p -> 1080p60 Smoothmotion

Jinc AR SL http://pix.defcon5.biz/images/79967370398173641729.png -> 9ms
Jinc AR SL - SR2 AR LL http://pix.defcon5.biz/images/19049767906798837580.png -> 14,5ms
SXBR AB25 -> SR2 AR LL http://pix.defcon5.biz/images/37724967688991784662.png -> 16ms
SXBR AB25 Quadruple -> Down http://pix.defcon5.biz/images/22247513489246501043.png -> 18,5ms
NGU Low/Low se1 -> http://pix.defcon5.biz/images/02571542679210162091.png -> 13,5ms
NGU Med/Med se1 -> http://pix.defcon5.biz/images/49239113436890867062.png -> 16ms
NGU High se1 / Jinc AR SL -> ~20,5ms
NGU High/Low se1 -> ~20,5ms
NGU High/Med se1 -> ~23ms
NGU High/High se1 -> http://pix.defcon5.biz/images/73322545513825247537.png -> ~37-62ms
NGU Quadruple High/High se1 -> Down http://pix.defcon5.biz/images/20754926886660168998.png -> 160ms

ts1
23rd November 2016, 08:25
Congrats, madshi! By looking at the comparison pictures, the envelope is pushed a little further. The results are amazing, mainly with good sources. I wonder how it would perform with retro games!

I suppose it'll stay closed source undefinitly, right? (I hope someday it'll be released.)

Is it totally based on shaders? Multipasses? Multialgorithms or is it just one algorithm?

I'm pretty sure it is based on this (https://arxiv.org/abs/1609.05158) paper. It is implemented in python here (https://github.com/Tetrachrome/subpixel) and partly here (https://github.com/alexjc/neural-enhance).

leeperry
23rd November 2016, 09:07
If I set the display to 23 or 24 fps for a 24 fps movie then I still get judder. Same problem with 59 and 60 fps. Only bluesky fps solves this. Any idea what the problem can be?

It takes at least 72 actual fps to fool the visual cortex FWIR and fighter pilots would be able to see up to 100fps so don't expect miracles but IME judder becomes a lot more bearable if it comes with perfect timing using Reclock + mVR's 60Hz FRC + both chroma and luma SR. Both kinds of SR together sharpen up motion blur and much improve motion smoothness to my eyes, like the LSF Avisynth plugin did IME ages ago. I can't always afford luma SR on 720p but chroma SR alone still helps.

The higher the refresh rate the better eventually, I really liked 100Hz FRC on CRT's and can hardly wait for 144Hz FRC on the BenQ EX3200R http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/drasche.gif

sauma144
23rd November 2016, 09:12
@madshi
NGU luma doubling is just amazing!
I think add grain and soften edges should be always on.
However for 30hz/60hz (mostly from youtube) video files, my laptop can't handle NGU low luma doubling.

Are you working on a NGU luma upscaler (not doubler)?
Is there any chance to get a NGU as fast as Jinc? Spline3?

madshi
23rd November 2016, 10:02
Either I am doing something totally wrong or things are not supposed to work the way I expect them to.

I ripped countless of times my Avatar 3D BluRay disc with latest MakeMKV v1.10.2 and yet the 3D subtitles are not working properly, for that matter they are not working properly even when I directly play the movie from my disc.

The 3D effects of the movie most of the time cut through the subtitles, and it doesn't matter which subtitle language I am using.
Maybe you can create a small sample which demonstrates the problem, using the latest MakeMKV version?

Congrats, madshi! By looking at the comparison pictures, the envelope is pushed a little further. The results are amazing, mainly with good sources. I wonder how it would perform with retro games!

I suppose it'll stay closed source undefinitly, right? (I hope someday it'll be released.)
Thanks! :)

I wanted an algo which reconstructs lines correctedly without any bloating and there simply wasn't anything available (except very slow neural networks like waifu2x), so I finally created my own.

Although I wanted to have a rudimentary support for "decimated" sources (pixel art, or images downscaled with nearest neighbor sampling), my main target was to get the best out of high-quality sources. So I suppose pixel art / games probably isn't where NGU shines.

Is it totally based on shaders? Multipasses? Multialgorithms or is it just one algorithm?
It's just one PS3.0 shader algorithm with multiple passes (number of passes depends on quality level).

No plans to open source it any time soon, unfortunately. I'm sorry about that. If I could just share it with you, for game playback, and could be 100% sure nobody else (except me) would ever use it for any other purpose, I would share it in a heartbeat. But I don't think sharing is possible without my "competition" getting access to it, too.

Waifu2x presents the same behavior too. They have very similar outputs.
Really? I thought waifu2x would do much better with pixel art! :eek:

I'm not liking any version of NGU for lower quality SD content. It significantly enhances artifacts and blocking. NNEDI3 64 with SR2 or SR3 performs much better in this space. Anyone else tested this. I don't have images to post right now but, it was not hard to see.
Some screenshots would be nice. With SR4, if you don't mind, so I can see if SR really handles this better than NGU.

But I do agree, if you have sources with high compression artifacts, NGU will try to interpret the artifacts as important image detail. The current NGU version really needs high quality sources to shine.

I'm pretty sure it is based on this (https://arxiv.org/abs/1609.05158) paper.
No, not at all. If my algo were based on that paper, it would be named after it instead of "NGU". I wouldn't touch that paper with a ten-foot pole, considering that it was written by MagicPony and then bought by Twitter and could potentially be burdened with patents. I specifically excluded that paper from my research, just to be safe.

My algo is not based on any one specific paper. As I said before, I combined ideas from several papers, and added a couple ideas of my own.

cork_OS
23rd November 2016, 10:46
Since NGU doesn't benefit from SuperRes, is possible/useful to apply SuperRes only to the last upscale step (Jinc/C-R etc.), after NGU?
Maybe similar <to waifu2x> results/quality could be possible with NGU, too, when doing proper noise/artifact reduction before upscaling. I don't know, but something like this not likely to come to madVR soon.
Unfortunately, I have a lot of noisy/blocky SD stuff. Which AviSynth deblocker/denoiser could be used for real-time NGU preprocessing?

ryrynz
23rd November 2016, 10:58
The current NGU version really needs high quality sources to shine.


I know NNEDI3 might be hard to beat in the lower source quality arena but still.. I await what may be cooked up from NGU to possibly replace it in future.


Unfortunately, I have a lot of noisy/blocky SD stuff. Which AviSynth deblocker/denoiser could be used for real-time NGU preprocessing?

I wouldn't be surprised if this was perhaps a little higher on madshi's todo list. I have no doubt we'll see something in future.
I've always been quite partial to Didee's double Fluxsmooth on noisier sources.

FluxSmoothST(12,4).FluxSmoothT(4).Merge(last,0.49)

The thing is though with how NGU picks things up it'd be hard to avoid the issues it creates with low quality sources without killing what little there is of the detail in the picture.
Might need a combination of filters to combat this. Certainly the best thing you can do right now is soften edges and use a soft scaler and avoid extra sharpening.

Matching_Mole
23rd November 2016, 11:18
Unfortunately, I have a lot of noisy/blocky SD stuff. Which AviSynth deblocker/denoiser could be used for real-time NGU preprocessing?

I agree with you, a good deblocker (either from avisynth or integrated in Madvr), is now the last missing part to achieve a perfect playback chain.

Kotik
23rd November 2016, 12:41
Maybe you can create a small sample which demonstrates the problem, using the latest MakeMKV version?


Here is a small sample (http://www.filedropper.com/avatar), notice how the 3D effects of the movie cut through the 3D subtitles, this is happening during the whole movie and it doesn't matter whether I use xySubFilter or the MPC-HC internal sub engine.

Sample was done using latest MakeMKV and then splitting it with latest MKVToolNIX.

Sp00kyFox
23rd November 2016, 14:13
Do videogames run fine?
yes. I already excluded the possibility of a performance or heat problem before I even posted here. see my inital response to ryrynz answer.

Not posting like your stupid is a good start.
not assuming that people don't know what they talking about would be. you're making one wrong assumption after the other instead of conceding that your discussion partner may be as competent as you are and taking him by the word.

Tell me about the driver that came before that and the one before that.. same issue? Tell me about all the ones you tried?
the previous version I had was v375.63. before I posted here I did try all the driver versions from the nvidia archive beginning with v359.06 (1.12.2015) with no avail.

Oh wait, that would've been the smart thing to do when first posting. Because troubleshooting is the obvious smart thing to do before doing so, and you did none so...

Obviously.. you just needed to take a few minutes to troubleshoot, which you didn't. If that's not lazy...
your assumption is wrong again. I did put several hours into it before I decided to ask if someone else knew this problem. which did help. thanks to thighhighs now we know how to avoid the problem but we still haven't figured out the cause for it in the first place.

When it's only related to NNEDI3? When it's only happening on 32 bit players? When hardly anyone else is having the same issue? C'mon now.. where are all the arrows pointing?
if you have figured it out, tell me because I didn't. otherwise I wouldn't have asked here and just solved the problem. thanks to Scyna we can probably rule out a GPU architecture related problem (it appears both on Keplar and Pascal). and with your information it doesn't seem driver but player related. since at least one user (you) doesn't have this problem with the same driver version despite using a 32bit player.

That's rich considering how you chose to repond first, but whatever.
I don't see what's wrong with my initial answer. but english is not my native language so if I happen to came across the wrong way I apologize.

375.95, Windows 10 14393.447, GTX 960 madVR 0.91.1
so far the only difference between us is the GPU. you said it works for you with a 32bit player. can you tell us which one? I would give it a try. and also which render patch you're using, DX9 or DX11? the problem occurs with both here.

Now just do what I said and uninstall your drivers properly and try at least a few different previous versions if not more if you care.
already did that and with your information we know that it should work correctly with the recent version.

Thing is you shouldn't really be using a 32 bit player without good reason anyway which I'll assume you're not now and hence no more issue.. but if you were interested in resolving it, that's where I'd start.
I just happen to like ZoomPlayer which is only available as a 32bit player. so far this is the only issue I ran into. we already know that it works fine with 64bit players. question is why doesn't it work in 32bit.

I'd probably reset madVR to defaults too if previous drivers versions changed nothing.
already tried that with no success.

huhn
23rd November 2016, 14:22
it is not cuvid so it should be this problem:
http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=396

Sp00kyFox
23rd November 2016, 14:31
thanks for the info, so this is indeed a known issue. still strange why it works for ryrynz though.

huhn
23rd November 2016, 14:34
well a 960 is maxwell 2.0 and a 760 is kepler. nvidia made huge improvements with maxwell in term of openCL performence. so they are quite different.

Sp00kyFox
23rd November 2016, 14:38
if this is the cause then the issue must have been reintroduced with the Pascal architecture. because Scyna is using a GTX 1070 and has confirmed this problem as well.

huhn
23rd November 2016, 14:43
try the workaround posted by madshi in the bug tracker or
use 64 bit
or/AND report the issue to nvidia.

there is nothing else i can say about this.

Sp00kyFox
23rd November 2016, 14:50
like I said, it works fine with a 64bit player. just curious why it doesn't with 32bit when according to ryrynz it should.
well maybe in the end it is a NVIDIA driver problem which just happen to be non-existent on Maxwell GPUs only.

huhn
23rd November 2016, 14:56
you can use 64 bit openCL in 32 bit mpc-hc try the workaround.

delete the reg key start a 64 bit player and use nnedi3 and than try the 32 bit player again.

madVR is only creating one openCL kernel if the first openCL kernal is 64 bit this may work.

i can't remember a change to this behavior so it should work. give it a try...

Sp00kyFox
23rd November 2016, 15:29
nice idea but that didn't help either. I just think that it doesn't work with nvidia in 32bit applications. I'm gonna ask a friend to try out, I know he has a GTX 980 TI (Maxwell). and I'm eager to hear what 32bit player ryrynz was using.

StinDaWg
23rd November 2016, 16:20
Not posting like your stupid is a good start.
You're :stupid:

Lose the attitude.

Pat357
23rd November 2016, 16:26
just tried the LOW setting of NGU, but still no dice. my hardware is to weak i guess..(gtx670)
@ madshi

greetz

You should be able to use NGU, because my my GTX-680 does even medium NGU !

VHT
23rd November 2016, 16:31
Hello,

Either I am doing something totally wrong or things are not supposed to work the way I expect them to.

I ripped countless of times my Avatar 3D BluRay disc with latest MakeMKV v1.10.2 and yet the 3D subtitles are not working properly, for that matter they are not working properly even when I directly play the movie from my disc.

The 3D effects of the movie most of the time cut through the subtitles, and it doesn't matter which subtitle language I am using.

I am using latest madVR build + latest LAV, I tried with both xySubFilter and with MPC-HC internal subtitle engine.

I remember a couple of months ago madshi mentioned that 3D subtitles are supposed to work with xySubFilter.

FYI I got a passive 3D TV and madVR 3D setting set to auto, the movies themselves do work fine it is just the subtitles in both the bluray disc and the .mkv rip are not really working properly.

So am I the only one with this issue? am I doing something wrong? or 3D subtitles were never meant to work with madVR + LAV?

Thanx in advance.


You are not alone. I've had the same problem since the day one when I started usind madVR+LAV with 3d movies. Movie is fine but subtitles are in wrong depth. I've also tried different subtitle engines, original BluRay discs etc. but with no luck. :(

pose
23rd November 2016, 16:32
RX 470 user here. Win7 64bit, 16.11.4 driver. Ive tested a few different scenarios and basically when using the new algo as image doubler for luma NGU-med = NNEDI3 64 and NGU-high = NNEDI3 128 performance wise for me. Changing upscaling from Jinc to CR gave me -1ms of rendering time. Anime with NGU looks really good to me. Thanks!

Just tried a movie as video source and it looks hecking "natural". Well done, madshi!

pirlouy
23rd November 2016, 18:22
Not posting like your stupid is a good start.You're :stupid:

Lose the attitude.
Totally agree.
Sp00kyFox made a good description, is polite etc. If you don't want to help, just don't post, instead of being that aggressive.

Sp00kyFox
23rd November 2016, 19:42
okay my friend with the GTX 980 (v375.95) just reported back and to my suprise the NNEDI3 problem doesn't occur on his system. he tried it with the 32bit version of MPC-HC. so it seems as if this bug indeed only happens with Kepler and Pascal GPUs but not on Maxwell ones. how weird.

Asmodian
23rd November 2016, 20:02
okay my friend with the GTX 980 (v375.95) just reported back and to my suprise the NNEDI3 problem doesn't occur on his system. he tried it with the 32bit version of MPC-HC. so it seems as if this bug indeed only happens with Kepler and Pascal GPUs but not on Maxwell ones. how weird.

I have a Pascal GPU (Titan X Pascal) and I don't have any issues with NNEDI3 and 32-bit Zoom Player. :confused:

Sp00kyFox
23rd November 2016, 20:11
then it must be another determining factor. well, maybe someone will figure it out. I'm out of ideas at the moment.