madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[steakhutzeee]

should be fine. just check the filters list for lavfilter.

Tried to disable them and instead of them i see "MPC video/audio/splitter" in the active filter list.

If i enable LAV as preferred i see instead that LAV is present in the list. So it's working.

[ryrynz]

Currently running a GTX 970.

Play with the queues and the output. Windowed vs full screen D3D 9 vs 11 and minimal queues.

[clsid]

My computer was just forced to update to Windows 10 v1903, and ever since that "upgrade", I've been experiencing a momentary stutter (and corresponding presentation glitches logged in MadVR debug) when any controls—seek bar, title bar, etc—pop up over the video in fullscreen non-exclusive mode.
...Try the latest Windows update (kb4512941 v18362.329). They fixed a microstutter issue in Netflix app. Might this this issue as well.

[SamuriHL]

The madman is back. :D He stopped by the HDR thread on AVS to drop a new test build. He had a few comments in the release notes for that test build that are rather interesting. So good to see him developing madvr again!

[ryrynz]

That actually looks to be related to the greater issue of DPC latency spikes people have been experiencing in 1903 for some time..

[SamuriHL]

That would be nice if they fixed that. I'm running the 19h2 builds right now so I don't know if they've added that fix or not. I suppose I could test it at some point and see if anything's fixed.

[ryrynz]

This wasn't something everyone experienced so you might not see an issue anyway, no idea what caused it..
I'll skip 1903 on the HTPC since 19H2 is basically out now, a shame it has been met with so many small but annoying issues.. but about six months later we're golden.

[SamuriHL]

I was thinking it could be related to the micro-stuttering the RTX users like myself are seeing but maybe not. Would love to see that get fixed somehow.

[ryrynz]

Nah. Something to do with how the driver interfaces to the Turing cards. Either madshi finds a work around or someone provides nvidia with a good report on how to fix it.

[Alamei]

Play with the queues and the output. Windowed vs full screen D3D 9 vs 11 and minimal queues.
That was actually one of my first strategies in attempting to troubleshoot. I tried swapping D3D modes, windowed overlay or not, enabling and disabling present frame for VSync, setting queues to minimum, setting queues to maximum, etc. Even toggling random settings that shouldn't have anything to do with the issue, like using separate device for presentation. Unfortunately, nothing had an impact. I was really hoping the queues might solve the problem, because the stutter looks almost like it's snapping back a couple of frames and then forward again each time you pop up controls. Does anyone else here have a Maxwell-based card on Win10 1903 (Build 18362.295)? I'd be very interested to know whether this bug is specific to something in my build, or whether it's a more generic issue.

EDIT: Correction to this statement. I had been testing so many combinations of settings that I think I must have left D3D11 enabled when I tested windowed overlay mode (which obviously negates the overlay option). I was testing another set of combinations and discovered that D3D9 windowed overlay mode does, in fact, resolve the issue. Does this suggest any particular source for the glitch?

Try the latest Windows update (kb4512941 v18362.329). They fixed a microstutter issue in Netflix app. Might this this issue as well.
It sounds like that update causes (https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-acknowledges-high-processor-usage-windows-10-bug/) as many issues (https://mspoweruser.com/microsofts-latest-cumulative-updatekb4512941-for-windows-10-1903-makes-the-windows-search-unusuable/) as it fixes, so I'm inclined to stick to my usual strategy of delaying the updates as long as possible until they can sort out some of the bugs.

[toki]

ok, I'm running out of ideas. help.fix.stutter. Graphics card on normal, stutter is in fewer intervals it seems when overclocked it stutters more.

[ryrynz]

Do you have anything possibly interfering with it in the background? Try safe mode/ diagnostic start up. Also look at focus assist settings, haven't heard of issues with those recently though..

[fedpul]

It sounds like that update causes (https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-acknowledges-high-processor-usage-windows-10-bug/) as many issues (https://mspoweruser.com/microsofts-latest-cumulative-updatekb4512941-for-windows-10-1903-makes-the-windows-search-unusuable/) as it fixes, so I'm inclined to stick to my usual strategy of delaying the updates as long as possible until they can sort out some of the bugs.

Hi, in fact I get no video (just a black screen, audio not affected) with madvr after that update (KB4512941), uninstalling it and blocking the update solved the problem.

Have this behaviour been reported by others?

[ryrynz]

No. You're the only one so far.

[Magik Mark]

Not sure if this has been raised. Does the studio driver of Nvidia performs better than the gamer driver?

I would appreciate if you could point me to the right thread if this has been discussed before. I can't seem find it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ryrynz]

It was brought up, Nev said they're the same thing. Don't bother with the studio one.

[tp4tissue]

It was brought up, Nev said they're the same thing. Don't bother with the studio one.

Does it fix the banding problem from windows 1903 though.

because win 1903 on nvidia is basically unusable. :(

[huhn]

the system wide banding was a problem for all including amd.

the not dithering with icm calibrations is not an issue when you are using madVR.

the banding issue could be fix for month not all but the one madVR user care about.
maybe even the audio issues! 1909/19h2 will be released "soon" time to forget 1903.

[toki]

Uninstalled and reinstalled the graphics driver. This did nothing, still stuttering. What is the trick about matching display framerates? I'm not even sure that's right what I'm trying to say. I'm unsure of what else to try, and then, I don't even know how to do that trick if that is even an option.

[RXP]

Been using MadVR for a while now on firstly a 1050ti and more recently a 1070. I now need to build/buy another machine for playback because I built another theatre - but it appears things got a lot more complex because Nvidia ended 3D frame packed support. From the driver thread I know that the newer cards can't be used with the older drivers that did support 3D frame packed.

Are there any alternatives if I don't want a used 1070? Does AMD support 3D frame packed playback? Or shall I just be resigned to using my Popcorn Hour VTEN has a 3D playblack?

I wish the Envy would be available soon - I'm pretty frustrated at having to jiggle so many drivers/software versions/windows update etc!

[Klaus1189]

What is the trick about matching display framerates?

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1883741#post1883741 and also newer posts. Hope it helps ;)

[jespermart]

Are there any alternatives if I don't want a used 1070? Does AMD support 3D frame packed playback? Or shall I just be resigned to using my Popcorn Hour VTEN has a 3D playblack?

I wish the Envy would be available soon - I'm pretty frustrated at having to jiggle so many drivers/software versions/windows update etc!

the new amd rt5700xt support 3d frame packed playback for now. But if they will follow nvidia and remove support for 3d, nobody knows

[RXP]

Excellent, thanks!

It would be nice if they supported it in the future - once our cards break we're going to be scanning ebay for used ones. Even with stand alone players this will be the case.

[tij]

Been using MadVR for a while now on firstly a 1050ti and more recently a 1070. I now need to build/buy another machine for playback because I built another theatre - but it appears things got a lot more complex because Nvidia ended 3D frame packed support. From the driver thread I know that the newer cards can't be used with the older drivers that did support 3D frame packed.

Are there any alternatives if I don't want a used 1070? Does AMD support 3D frame packed playback? Or shall I just be resigned to using my Popcorn Hour VTEN has a 3D playblack?

I wish the Envy would be available soon - I'm pretty frustrated at having to jiggle so many drivers/software versions/windows update etc!

Worst comes to worst ... can tell MadVR to output in Top/Bottom format ... then can tell TV to output 3D in Top/Bottom

if you use 4K LG OLED ... this should not result in any resolution loss

downside ... cannot watch 3d rips in 2d (as switching tv to 2d will show you top/bottom picture) ... solution - create symbolic link to your 3d rip ... name one mkv another mk3d ... then use madvr profiles to output one in top/bottom and another in 2d

plus side to this ... you using madvr to do chroma upscaling and horizontal stetching in 4k for 3d ... and for 2d you also using madvr for upscaling to 4k

[toki]

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1883741#post1883741 and also newer posts. Hope it helps ;)Thank you for the link. It sort of helps, maybe. If someone could point me to the custom timings thread. And if you could maybe explain to me in a little more lamens terms.

[RXP]

Worst comes to worst ... can tell MadVR to output in Top/Bottom format ... then can tell TV to output 3D in Top/Bottom

if you use 4K LG OLED ... this should not result in any resolution loss

downside ... cannot watch 3d rips in 2d (as switching tv to 2d will show you top/bottom picture) ... solution - create symbolic link to your 3d rip ... name one mkv another mk3d ... then use madvr profiles to output one in top/bottom and another in 2d

plus side to this ... you using madvr to do chroma upscaling and horizontal stetching in 4k for 3d ... and for 2d you also using madvr for upscaling to 4k

Neat idea - didn't realise the LG would do SBS at 4k - just tried it now and it enabled the mode. We don't then need 3D frame packing! Fantastic

[tij]

Neat idea - didn't realise the LG would do SBS at 4k - just tried it now and it enabled the mode. We don't then need 3D frame packing! Fantastic
Don’t do SBS (side by side) ... do OU (over/under aka top/bottom) ... 2 reasons:

1. Most players will overlay their play control on top or on bottom of entire screen ... when watching this on SBS in 3D it will be garbage ... but on OU it’s passable (control will be vertically stretch and only one eye will see it)

2. For LG OLED ... it polarizes horizontal lines for 3D ... so one line for left eye next line for right eye (you can see it if you don’t put 3D glasses ... the image will look like interlaced video) ... so for OU, OLED just alternate over and under lines without performing any scaling ... for SBS, OLED will have to discard every other vertical line scaled by MadVR and then stretch it across the screen (basically waisting MadVR scaling)

PS. AMD ditch their support for frame pack 3D in drivers years before NVidia

PSS. Those who upgraded to 1903 will likely need to upgrade their NVidia drivers and loose 3D frame pack to fix 1903 problems

[mclingo2]

...

PS. AMD ditch their support for frame pack 3D in drivers years before NVidia



AMD cards still support frame packed 3D, what support are you referring to?

[tij]

AMD cards still support frame packed 3D, what support are you referring to?

hmmm ... i distinctly remember searching if AMD still supported HD3D after NVidia ditch 3D Vision from newer drivers ... was going to jump camps from NVidia to AMD just for this

read somewhere that HD3D was no more included in AMD latest drivers and gave up ... and lock my 1070 on last driver that supported 3D Vision

for the love of god ... cannot find where i read it from ... so my apologies if i was wrong ... AMD boys and girls can confirm if latest AMD drivers support HD3D as i have no AMD GPU (if it does ... then next upgrade for GPU will be AMD for me)

While Over/Under trick is nice to have in case all GPU drop 3D ... i i still prefer outputting 3D in framepack as switching between viewing 3D and 2D is nice and easy

PS. Does hd3d works straight away with madVR ... read somewhere that needs 3rd party software to actually use HD3D ... TriDef seems to be preference for AMD users ... but TriDef seems out of buesiness ... any other alternative to TriDef ... will be no good if I buy AMD with HD3D but then cannot use it

[huhn]

because 3DHD is pretty much dead it was never alive.
but madVR uses the OS 3D API not some middle ware stuff so 3D on AMD just works for now.

3D on nvidia still works BTW. but will clearly not going to run after this try to make it work in madVR i leave that to user of 3D.

[QBhd]

Hello everyone, I'm looking for your thoughts on this scenario.

CPU: FX-8350
RAM: 8GB DDR3 1866 CL 7
GPU: R9 270X 2GB
No hardware decoding
HDMI 1.3 output

In your expert opinions, Is it possible to play 4K HDR Bluray remux using madVR?

QB

[el Filou]

HDR tone mapping would push the GPU to its limits, but it's doable with 'scale chroma separately to save performance' enabled. You'll probably have to set conservative queue sizes to stay under the 2 GB VRAM limit.

You can test the decoding with this: http://jell.yfish.us/ Use the 120-mbps-4k-uhd-hevc-10bit.mkv
Mind you, UHD Blu-rays don't reach such high average bitrates, it's a worst case test with max bitrate.

[wolfman2791]

Hi, in fact I get no video (just a black screen, audio not affected) with madvr after that update (KB4512941), uninstalling it and blocking the update solved the problem.

Have this behaviour been reported by others?
Same problem. Same solution.

[QBhd]

HDR tone mapping would push the GPU to its limits, but it's doable with 'scale chroma separately to save performance' enabled. You'll probably have to set conservative queue sizes to stay under the 2 GB VRAM limit.

You can test the decoding with this: http://jell.yfish.us/ Use the 120-mbps-4k-uhd-hevc-10bit.mkv
Mind you, UHD Blu-rays don't reach such high average bitrates, it's a worst case test with max bitrate.

Interesting thoughts... I'll explain why I want thoughts on this setup once I get more thoughts from you guys... Basically I want to see if my pre-conceptions match all of yours and solve a riddle that has been bugging me for weeks now :)

Sorry to be coy, but I don't want to pollute everyone's opinions.

QB

[huhn]

looks like the 5700 XT is doing fantastic for NGU.
NGU very high 23 ms for doubling while idling at 350-1400 mhz
50-250 watt so don't take these number seriously.

i do a better test later.

edit:
asmodians 240 hz test doesn't work properly it is batch dropping and the video freezes for more then a sec.
i got ~21000 when the driver didn't crash.

the card can do
NGU aa very high chroma
image doubling NGU sharp very high plus chroma mid all together in ~33 ms

and for what ever reason it doesn't like to buffer the display rate is unstable:
https://abload.de/img/rx57000xts1k7t.png

BTW. my version is very loud.
the redeon setting thingy totally bugged out i'm done for now.

[Warner306]

The 23ms sounds impressive, but the very loud part less so... Unlike an RTX card, at least you don't have to worry about possible stuttering during video playback with the present queue set to anything higher than 1.

[oldpainlesskodi]

@ Hunn,

Yeah, I'm pairing mine with a Ryzen 7 3700x, and a PCIE 4.0 mobo and 16gig of 3200 hrz DDR4 - will be here all and set up tomorrow.

:devil::)

[mclingo2]

whats the noise like on the 3rd party cards, my RX580 is quite loud when pushed.

[SamuriHL]

madshi released a bunch of envy information this morning. One of the things he CONFIRMED is that madvr development will not stop, a commercial version of the software will be coming at some point, but a free version will remain. So that's good!

[oldpainlesskodi]

@ mclingo2 - it's ok, unless you use wattman to auto overclock, but TBH, I have not found a need to overclock.

[SirMaster]

madVR Envy info for those interested:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/3053602-madvr-envy-anticipation-thread-25.html#post58541994

[el Filou]

Interesting thoughts... I'll explain why I want thoughts on this setup once I get more thoughts from you guys... Basically I want to see if my pre-conceptions match all of yours and solve a riddle that has been bugging me for weeks now :)QBOut of curiosity I've done a real test on my desktop which has the same GPU overclocked to 1150 MHz (what pretty much any Pitcairn can do) and an i5-4690K. I'm afraid I was a little optimistic: when outputting 1080 with 'scale chroma separately', I can play a UHD Blu-ray test clip with SSIM 2D downscale but only if I measure the HDR beforehand, and even then the render queue sometimes drop to low numbers and I'm not sure it wouldn't drop frames at some point, although the GPU strangely never goes above 65% load. Using Bicubic 150 is much safer. With the live HDR algo however it's too much and the GPU cannot cope. (Edit: I forgot to point out that I'm using HDR highlight recovery, which uses a lot of rendering power)
Also the decoding is quite taxing on my quad-core Haswell. The problem would be very high bitrate scenes, but this can be compensated with a longer decoding queue.

You can test with this if you want: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-xS4hkE_bllCvRDJw0XO5SzAwL3WvfSS
It's a looping clip from the menu of The Great Wall, 61 Mbps average video bitrate.

[skydreamer888]

Hi everyone, I want to ask for a 60Hz monitor which can run on 42-74Hz refresh rate, which of the following setting is the best when playing a 23.976fps video?

1. 60Hz, smooth motion on
2. 74Hz, smooth motion on
3. 47Hz (47.952Hz)
4. 71HZ (71.928Hz)

Thank you.

[Siso]

Hi everyone, I want to ask for a 60Hz monitor which can run on 42-74Hz refresh rate, which of the following setting is the best when playing a 23.976fps video?

1. 60Hz, smooth motion on
2. 74Hz, smooth motion on
3. 47Hz (47.952Hz)
4. 71HZ (71.928Hz)

Thank you.

I'm for 3. 47Hz (47.952Hz)
4. 71HZ (71.928Hz) :D

[hannes69]

which of the following setting is the best when playing a 23.976fps video
If you can achieve 47.952 Hz or 71.928 Hz very accurately by using custom resolutions, there´s no need for smoothmotion. There shouldn´t be a greater difference between these two.
So use 3. or 4. Maybe try both and use the one with better accuracy for less frame drops/repeats.

[huhn]

whats the noise like on the 3rd party cards, my RX580 is quite loud when pushed.

i have a red devil which is considered to be one of the best. i still consider it loud.

[ashlar42]

madVR Envy info for those interested:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/3053602-madvr-envy-anticipation-thread-25.html#post58541994
I'm honestly baffled at the idea that they intend to launch without HDMI 2.1.
Edit: didn't see the prices. LOL? I mean I wish madshi ALL the success possible on this Earth but Envy is priced completely beyond anything even remotely plausible for me. I am in no way complaining about the price.

It's good that madVR will stay in active development. And everything points to madVR making use of the ray tracing cores (or tensor cores) in the RTX line of cards (I don't see where else those "100 TFLOPS for AI / Neural Network" could be coming from).

[SamuriHL]

I can't afford an Envy at the moment, but, I am VERY curious to see what a commercial version of madvr looks like. Plus will we get the algorithms he's currently working on for the Envy? I think it would be plausible for madvr on the HTPC being used as the "test bed" for new features being brought to the Envy. THAT would be beneficial all around.

[ashlar42]

I can't afford an Envy at the moment, but, I am VERY curious to see what a commercial version of madvr looks like. Plus will we get the algorithms he's currently working on for the Envy? I think it would be plausible for madvr on the HTPC being used as the "test bed" for new features being brought to the Envy. THAT would be beneficial all around.Yes, this is exactly how I'm feeling. Curious about the commercial version, curious about whether features will filter down from Envy to HTPCs or the opposite or both.
One thing is clear: there's no way I'll consider an AMD card for madVR use in the future. With Envy being Nvidia based, I think we now can make sense of madshi telling people to keep in mind RTX cards for a future-proof approach.

[huhn]

but a 2080 ti can't do 100 TFLOP at 32 bit but only at 16 bit. just saying and no HDMI 2.1.

the price was to be expected and he clarifies i don't have to "care" about this product which is transparent and fair.

madshi should really clarify if madVR will use tensor cores in the future or not that's a yes for me "- Pro Cinema: about ~10 TFLOPS, plus ~100 TFLOPS for AI / Neural Network" but not a 100 % yes from him.
which is something we should know IMHO.