madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[DMU]

@VAMET
GeForce GTX 1050Ti (GP107) at least.
GeForce GTX 1650 Super - my recommendations.

[huhn]

@VAMET

It would be a better choice if there weren’t the unsaturated (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WCioSIElyKfg51sn5zFc-oVLwUUA2VPm)/wrong (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1892452#post1892452) colors issue in "hdr passthrough" mode, which was discussed here on the last pages. It seems that this is an issue for all AMD GPUs, so turn your choice in favor of Nvidia.

just don't use passthrough on a projector and you should be golden.

a vega 11 isn't far of a 1050 ti.

[VAMET]

Dear Friends

All of you say, that I should not use HDR passthrough, why? I don't understand. My projector is capable of 3840x2160 HDR BT.2020 10bit HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0b. Have you got some pictures, when HDR passthrough is used on the 4K projector?

At the moment I have got Lenovo notebook:
CPU: Intel Core i5-7200U with Intel HD Graphics 620
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce 940MX

This notebook has got HDMI 1.4 and no HDCP 2.2. I am using madVR without any frame drops, glitches with HDR tone mapping to play 4K HDR BT.2020 10bit. So what I will gain using GPU with HDMI 2.0a/b HDCP 2.2, when using with my 4K projector? What will change?

Thank you in advance for your help and support.

Sincerely

[mclingo]

projectors are notoriously bad at HDR, you are better off using MADVR tone mapping, you get a much better picture, there is a whole project running at the moment to maximise HDR picture quality on projectors in MADVR.

HDR passthrough works fine, its your default position but if you want to get the very best picture out of your kit you need to use MADVR and the latest tone mapped curves etc.

[el Filou]

Also outputting 4:2:0 from a PC is a bad idea as internally it's using RGB, so the best would be output RGB Full range or if the projector doesn't support RGB well or at all, YUV 4:2:2.

[chros]

But if you have a 120Hz pnale in the TV the TV is able to do correct 24p? Correct me if I am wrong.
Panasonic is a good example for this: even its current OLED lineup (that has 240/120Hz LG panel in it) can't do 24p judder free with chroma 4:4:4 (PC mode). Don't ask why :)

[j82k]

Because TV manufacturers care absolutely zero about HTPC users. :)

[Asmodian]

or if the projector doesn't support RGB well or at all, YUV 4:2:2.

Try YCbCr 4:4:4 first! Only if that does not work should you drop to YCbCr 4:2:2. ;)

[el Filou]

Don't most display devices downgrade to 4:2:2 for processing?

[mclingo]

ive given up my RX 5700 and gone back to my trusty RX 580, I cant recommend the RX 5700 series for MADVR/HTPC use at all in its present driver state, great for gaming however, I had no issues.

[huhn]

Don't most display devices downgrade to 4:2:2 for processing?

yes let the TV do that not the GPU there is at least a chance it will do it using high bit deep.

[QBhd]

ive given up my RX 5700 and gone back to my trusty RX 580, I cant recommend the RX 5700 series for MADVR/HTPC use at all in its present driver state, great for gaming however, I had no issues.

5700 series AMD working perfectly fine here.

QB

[jasonwc18]

I discovered a very strange issue and solved it almost by accident. About a week back, Windows decided to upgrade my NVIDIA driver even though I have Windows set not to upgrade drivers. I used DDU to remove the driver and install my preferred driver. I decided to check the calibration with Calman to make sure everything was fine. I have a JVC RS600 and a Stewart StudioTek 130 display. I use Calman to calibrate my projector/screen manually using the madvr pattern generator. I had calibrated Gamma, RGB tracking manually to an average of below 1 DeltaE (StudioTek 130 screen material has excellent color accuracy and the JVC projector was around DeltaE 2 out of the box with this screen; avg Gamma and RGB tracking well below 1 after manual calibration). Yet, color sweeps were showing me DeltaE errors of 10 for Blue and Cyan. I had seen this once before (identical results) when the Nvidia driver was set to manage color settings rather than the application. However, this time, the driver setting was set correctly.

I repeatedly used DDU with different driver versions, tested different settings in Calman etc. Nothing worked. Finally, I decided to change the color from 12 bit to 8 bit (I normally play in 4K23/RGB/12 bit color). Ran Calman again and both Blue and Cyan had a DeltaE error of 0.5...

I have madvr set to dither the output to 10 bit as the JVC RS600 supports 12 bit color at every level from input to display. Also, I'm pretty sure I've calibrated with 12 bit color in the past without issue. I don't know if this is a Windows issue or a madvr issue (I'm using the latest beta for HDR tonemapping). I don't see how it can be an Nvidia driver issue (unless it's an interaction with a recent Windows update) as this is a build from November 2017 that I've used for ages. Has anyone seen this before?

Also, I'm pretty sure it's not actually impacting normal playback because colors look fine when using madvr to output movies and TV shows on my projector. Given that I saw the exact same behavior and calibration results when I had the Nvidia driver set to manage color, I wonder if Windows is somehow messing with the output in the same way. Very strange and I was just wondering if anyone else ran into this.

[Grimsdyke]

Hi guys, just a few quick questions.

- Is it possible to have the MadVR OSD displayed without the rectangle background ??
- I am not sure if this affects only my TV but when I change some HDMI settings the TV is then recognized by MadVR as the new default device, so:
- - is it possible to simply copy&paste the settings from the old to the new device ?
- - is it possible to switch between these device as default ?

[mparade]

Should a 3D LUT calibration process on madvr performed even if my display has already been calibrated? I have CalMAN home and an LG C9V. Anything I do, I still have banding and black point issues with madVR. This is not the case with my Oppo 203 using the same picture mode.

Any help would be appreciated.

[petoulachi]

I've heard that you better set madvr to output in 8bit on LG 9 OLED series, have you tried ?

Also, are you aware that last version of MadVR 92.17, and beta v40 & v112b, does not handle HDR 3DLUT correctly ?
If I use 3DLUT for HDR, MadVR does not send HDR signal to display, no matter what I've tried.
Going back to 92.16 and it works as intended.

[Asmodian]

- I am not sure if this affects only my TV but when I change some HDMI settings the TV is then recognized by MadVR as the new default device, so:
- - is it possible to simply copy&paste the settings from the old to the new device ?
- - is it possible to switch between these device as default ?

Simply drag and drop the 'identification' entry under the new device onto the old one, this will combine both IDs into one device. :)

[chros]

Should a 3D LUT calibration process on madvr performed even if my display has already been calibrated?
I think if your TV is already calibrated, then no need to do anything else. Unless ... :)
Your Oppo uses a different chain than your PC with madvr, video card output, Black level setting on the TV, etc.

[adhara]

Hi guys,

Is 10bits bug fixed in windowed mode for those using Nvidia graphic card ?

So what's the best mode to use for 4K output (HDR and non HDR): FSE or Windowed ?

Thx

[Msarc]

I'm seeing something odd: whenever I set Image Upscaling to "DXVA2", the cost (rendering time) for RCA shoots through the roof, going over 20ms at RCA "High" and 42ms at RCA "Very High". Meanwhile, any other algorithm, including NGU "Very High", tops out at 12ms.
Does anyone have an idea why this could be happening?

[ryrynz]

Yeah this is not "odd" at all, it's your GPU clock speeds. When you use DXVA, the card depending on how it's power states are configured will typically run at lower speeds as the workload is considerably less and the card has no need to run at near full performance. Rendering times aren't an issue unless you're dropping frames.

[Msarc]

Yeah this is not "odd" at all, it's your GPU clock speeds. When you use DXVA, the card depending on how it's power states are configured will typically run at lower speeds as the workload is considerably less and the card has no need to run at near full performance. Rendering times aren't an issue unless you're dropping frames.
It does cause frame drops, and the video card goes to full clock speeds and usage when doing DXVA2+RCA. It's a 2060S with 441.66 drivers, btw.

Screenshots:
DXVA2 - image stats (https://i.imgur.com/Gg1i5RY.jpg)
DXVA2 - card stats (https://i.imgur.com/Ct2D9kE.gif)
NGU High - image stats (https://i.imgur.com/GnbHqMy.jpg)
NGU High - card stats (https://i.imgur.com/F5LizhK.gif)

[ryrynz]

Change your power profile like I said. Why use DXVA?

[Msarc]

Change your power profile like I said.
The card already is at full power like I said. And the profile for the player is "Prefer Maximum Performance".

Why use DXVA?
To turn off the cooling at night time.

PS: Added some screens to the above post.

[ryrynz]

Yeah, can see the card is actually doing more work under DXVA for whatever reason and the clocks are higher too. Share your settings? Also showing render steps might be helpful.

[Msarc]

Also showing render steps might be helpful.
DXVA2 - render steps (https://i.imgur.com/blWhOkq.jpg)

Share your settings?
I can't remember how. I think there's supposed to be a settings.bin file in madVR folder, but it's not there.

[ryrynz]

You don't need it but if u want that file you just need to allow madvr write permission to the folder. Otherwise you can just export the madvr registry key to a file.

I'm not seeing any issues on my 1060 using similar content with DXVA and RCA enabled using 441.66

[huhn]

RCA is done before scaling and well that's not possible when you use DXVA2 for scaling so it now used after scaling.

just use bicubic for image and chroma scaling it should be about as cheap as DXVA and it should be better too.

[Msarc]

Otherwise you can just export the madvr registry key to a file.
Ah, alright, here it is (https://www60.zippyshare.com/v/Ha9k1iKP/file.html). The settings are all fairly mild, though, except for RCA that I set to Very High for testing.


RCA is done before scaling and well that's not possible when you use DXVA2 for scaling so it now used after scaling.

just use bicubic for image and chroma scaling it should be about as cheap as DXVA and it should be better too.
Thanks for the explanation. I suppose RCA+Bicubic will work for me as well, and I confirm that it is indeed very cheap under the same scenario - as cheap as I expected RCA+DXVA to be.

[mparade]

I've heard that you better set madvr to output in 8bit on LG 9 OLED series, have you tried ?

Also, are you aware that last version of MadVR 92.17, and beta v40 & v112b, does not handle HDR 3DLUT correctly ?
If I use 3DLUT for HDR, MadVR does not send HDR signal to display, no matter what I've tried.
Going back to 92.16 and it works as intended.

Thanks. I tried today the 8-bit output as well. Severe banding still very visible in homogenous flat areas on my calibrated LG C9V. Using Oppo-203 there is no such visual annoying issues.
I calibrated my OLED using CalMAN Home LG so there is no need here to use a 3DLUT. HDR signal is sent to display, my TV confirms it nicely by displaying the "HDR" logo on the screen. 92.16 version used here plus the latest nvidia game ready driver. I suspect now, it may be a bug relating to the driver. I got bogged down...

[huhn]

8 bit at the gpu level madVR both?
did you disable dithering for some reasons?

[VBB]

Hi guys,

Is 10bits bug fixed in windowed mode for those using Nvidia graphic card ?

So what's the best mode to use for 4K output (HDR and non HDR): FSE or Windowed ?

Thx

I recently switched to 10-bit, and I haven't noticed any issues. This is with latest Windows 10, which doesn't support FSE any longer. So, even if you set madVR to FSE, the output will be in FSW mode. madRV OSD will confirm this.

[VBB]

@mparade - Are you using PC mode on the C9? That would explain the severe banding in HDR. If you can't live without 4:4:4, try setting the driver to YCbCr 4:4:4 8-bit, madVR to 8-bit for both SDR and HDR. You'll still see some banding, especially in HDR, but that's as good as it gets in PC mode. If you can do without 4:4:4, change the C9 to regular HDMI mode, set the driver to YCbCr 4:2:2 10-bit, madVR to 10-bit. In both cases the TV needs to be set to Black Level Low.

BTW, there's another thread that's better suited for OLED discussion.

[shimarin]

Are the bar graphs in the scaling section accurate for both upscaling and downscaling?

[chros]

Thanks. I tried today the 8-bit output as well. Severe banding still very visible in homogenous flat areas on my calibrated LG C9V. Using Oppo-203 there is no such visual annoying issues.
What output your Oppo is set to? Are you only talking about HDR? (My chinese Oppo clone is on the way :) )

[Klaus1189]

Do you have a link of the oppo clone?

[mparade]

What output your Oppo is set to? Are you only talking about HDR? (My chinese Oppo clone is on the way :) )

Color Space: YCbCr 4:2:2
Color Depth: Auto
Output Resolution: Custom
Custom Resolution: UHD Auto

Yes, only HDR movies have this annoying banding effect.

[VBB]

Color Space: YCbCr 4:2:2

That is why.

[mparade]

8 bit at the gpu level madVR both?
did you disable dithering for some reasons?

Yes. Both are set to 8-bit. I did not disable dithering.
I would check it's current setting. Both LAVVideo and madVR has dithering setting, right?

[Asmodian]

When using madVR's LAVVideo's dither settings do not come into effect, they are only for rare use cases and should pretty much always be left as default.

[mparade]

Color Space: YCbCr 4:2:2

That is why.

Thank you very much. When using settings proposed by you above, I can get rid of banding indeed but I got other very annoying visual things like: almost black grey bars and dull picture (with black level set to low of course both in madvr and OLED). Using Oppo I got black bars and for me visually excellent picture using the same input and picture settings on my TV. Maybe, Oppo is conjuring something magical before sending the signal to the OLED.

[QBhd]

madVR should stay set to 0-255 in this use case.

QB

[SamuriHL]

Set madvr to 0 to 255 levels else the video gets double compressed which is what you're experiencing.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[mparade]

Thanks! It solved the issue! WOW! :)

[VBB]

Glad it worked :)

[chros]

Do you have a link of the oppo clone?
Its offical name is M9702 (https://www.avforums.com/threads/the-ultimate-oppo-media-device.2207229/) and current version is v3, and its official page (http://www.bd-mod.com/). (There are plenty of yt videos in various languages about it.)

[Klaus1189]

Thanks, I have an original 203 but worth to look at all possibilities.

[el Filou]

Are the bar graphs in the scaling section accurate for both upscaling and downscaling?It's just a coarse indication of each algo's characteristics but probably not a scientific measurement. For example, the sharpness graph doesn't change much between the different NGU variants even though Sharp is much sharper than Antialias.

[mparade]

Set madvr to 0 to 255 levels else the video gets double compressed which is what you're experiencing.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Strange...I would have thought that an other chain should be working. In this way, source is being converted twice, by madVR and the GPU:

source Limited Range 16-235 -> (madVR) PC levels (0-255) -> (GPU) Limited Range 16-235 -> (Display) 16-235

and somehow this seems to be the solution.

[nevcairiel]

Source to madVR is not much of a conversion, because it's simply part of the YCbCR -> RGB conversion. But yes the GPU then compresses the range.

If your display expects limited range, you can avoid the GPU compressing the range by setting madVR to limited range, and GPU to full range. However this has the downside that the range of everything that's not madVR is wrong - which matters if you do gaming or use the system for anything but madVR playback.

These two combinations are the only choice for a limited range display, because the desktop itself is always full range.