madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[cremor]

Any Windows 10 users here?
When I experimented with it a while ago I had a significant issue with video playback: after I left the media player paused for a while and wanted to resume playback the video froze with madVR (not sure about other renderers, I forgot whether I checked or not...). I had to stop playback and restart. Very inconvenient.

Do such things still happen on Windows 10?

Yes, I sometimes have the same problem, but it only happens if you leave the PC long enough so that Windows turns off the display. So one workaround would be to increase that time or disable the function completely.

[Asmodian]

Is madVR dead or its development stalled?

The latest version is slightly over one month old and development has stalled? :rolleyes:

[nussman]

This foozoor posted similar posts in other threads. Just ignore it please ...

[j82k]

anyone else out there with a 2015 or 2016 LG OLED without a pro calibration, just wondering what you've set your MADVR calibration to, DCI-P3 / power curve 2.20 looks the best to my eyes, with calibration disabled MADVR is overblowing colour, mainly reds for me.

No idea if this is even correct.

2016 LG Oled owner here.

Do you have the color gamut on your TV set to something other than normal? With normal you should get correct colors in madVR with calibration disabled.

If you set the color gamut to wide than madVR set to DCI-P3 looks correct, not sure if it's 100% though.

[mclingo]

2016 LG Oled owner here.

Do you have the color gamut on your TV set to something other than normal? With normal you should get correct colors in madVR with calibration disabled.

If you set the color gamut to wide than madVR set to DCI-P3 looks correct, not sure if it's 100% though.

that was my first thought but I've got it set to normal even on my HDR preset.

I didnt actually notice this until I watched star wars the phantom menace recently, the scene where the princess is called an Angel by Anakin when they meet for the firs time, their faces are really red.

i'll try get some pictures.

note, it cant be my TV as when I switch renderer to something else its fine, its just MADVR.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/5fperqvu4gjlq8f/madvr%20colour%20problem.jpg?dl=0

Even allowing for my crappy mobile photos you can see a clear difference, top is standard EVR renderer in MPC-HC, middle is MADVR+ MPC-HC with calibration disabled, bottom is with MADVR calibration enabled. In situe the top one look most accurate, followed by the bottom with the middle with blown out reds.

Again, i'm only seeing this in MADVR, all other renderes are fine so its not my TV or GFX card. I've tried a full wipe and reinstall of MADVR, i've had this issue for the last few versions.

[j82k]

I just tried EVR and madVR side by side and the colors look identical so there must be something wrong or buggy with your setup. Did you check the "color and gamma" tab in madVR? Maybe you messed around with it and then forgot about it?

[mclingo]

yeah nothing in there, its a totally clean untouched install, no idea whats going on.

[mclingo]

I just tried EVR and madVR side by side and the colors look identical so there must be something wrong or buggy with your setup. Did you check the "color and gamma" tab in madVR? Maybe you messed around with it and then forgot about it?

How did you show them side by side, when I come out of full screen any processing MADVR is doing is removed so they do look iddentical, has to be in full screen.

Also, is there a performance hit when you use calibrated settings?


EDIT, this isnt quite right, it does look correct out of full screen and if I change to BT2020 I can see the change, the colors are becoming overblown only when i'm in full screen, whats going on there then???

[Asmodian]

There is a small performance hit when using a 3DLUT but "calibration disabled" is actually the same as the default already calibrated setting (BT.709, pure power 2.2); there is no change in performance between already calibrated and calibration disabled.

There should be no difference between fullscreen and windowed. :confused:

[mclingo]

ok found the problem - this happens only in full screen and when i have DIRECT3D 11 for presentation enabled in rendering, which I need enabled for HDR playback, ideas anyone?

[nevcairiel]

"calibration disabled" is actually the same as the default already calibrated setting (BT.709, pure power 2.2); there is no change in performance between already calibrated and calibration disabled.

I don't think that is true. In calibration disabled mode I don't think madVR remaps gamuts.

Basically, I don't think anyone should really be using calibration disabled, if you don't have a meter to calibrate, then just set it to "display already calibrated" and typically BT.709, unless you know otherwise from your TVs specs.

[huhn]

i'm pretty sure it was changed to BT 709 for no calibration settings.

this should be very easy to test.
i have no bt 2020 file on the Pc i'm currently at.

[mclingo]

I think it is BT 709 as my reds are overblown using DRECT3d11 in both calibrated off and calibrated to BT709. If I use DCI-P3 it is better but its still quite red compared to EVR rendering, if I use BT2020 its a bit far the other way but look more natural in a way.

Can anyone tell me what this should be set to and why having DIRECT3D11 ticked is causing my colours to overblow in red?

I have a LG OLED EF9500 HDR TV

[mclingo]

closest i cant get to EVR is using display calibrated to BT2020 using BT709 transfer function 1.08, no idea if this is correct but it looks pretty good to my ageing peepers

[mytbyte]

anyone else out there with a 2015 or 2016 LG OLED without a pro calibration, just wondering what you've set your MADVR calibration to, DCI-P3 / power curve 2.20 looks the best to my eyes, with calibration disabled MADVR is overblowing colour, mainly reds for me.

No idea if this is even correct.

Hmmm...I'm assuming you're not using passthrough...if it's overblowing, then your TV is set to some native (full gamut) mode or P3 mode (if you choose DCI P3 in MadVR and it looks the best, then this would prove that the TV is not in Rec709 but in P3 or native mode)...madvr is unaware of the color gamut of your TV, with no conversion it just send color as is, or converted to rec709 if it's HDR video (I assume the latter from my own testing)...

[mclingo]

Hmmm...I'm assuming you're not using passthrough...if it's overblowing, then your TV is set to some native (full gamut) mode or P3 mode (if you choose DCI P3 in MadVR and it looks the best, then this would prove that the TV is not in Rec709 but in P3 or native mode)...madvr is unaware of the color gamut of your TV, with no conversion it just send color as is, or converted to rec709 if it's HDR video (I assume the latter from my own testing)...

Hi, PASSTHRU? this is SDR material i'm talking about, havent even looked at HDR yet, that may also be problematic.

After some more fiddling I updated which settings a couple of posts up, I found the most accurate picture was BT2020 using BT709 transfer function 1.08.

I still think its odd that this problem goes away when I deslect DIRECT3D 11 in MADVR, I feel this is where the problem lays,nobody has explained that yet, could be other people have this problem but just havbent noticed yet as its not that obvious in most movies, this particular scene is very noticeable.

If this were an issue with my TV then EVR would also look bad, there must be something wrong with MADVR's calibration off settings, whatever they are they should surely mirror what EVR renderer is doing when off, surely?

Could do with some feedback from @MADSHI on this really

[leeperry]

This foozoor posted similar posts in other threads. Just ignore it
we got both Dolby Vision dude and and mpv>mVR troll in here, better ignore them indeed.

still super impressed by RCA "Very High" on DVD@1080p, yay :)

[huhn]

can you provide a sample of the scene?

[mclingo]

can you provide a sample of the scene?

actually, isnt is possible to do this from a screen dump, I cant test this from work, you should be able to open with and choose MPC, it will load this as one frame and process it full screen?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mvq9zy92uhqr3t7/Star%20Wars%20Episode%201%20The%20Phantome%20Menace%20%281999%29.mkv_snapshot_00.32.31_%5B2018.03.09_14.15.33%5D.jpg?dl=0


Yeah that does work - when you turn calibration off / on you have to reload the image though.

[mytbyte]

@mclingo: sorry, somehow I missed that conversation had progressed quite a bit since the quote...still, I find it odd that, in my case any changes in transfer function/gamma section does nothing for SDR video but indeed does something for HDR, other than that I find no difference regarding color between DX11 and DX9 modes...

[mclingo]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/py3n63ob6elbp2p/Star%20Wars%20Episode%201%20The%20Phantome%20Menace%20%281999%29_1.mp4?dl=0


link to clip, note however I can see the difference on any movie, its just more obvious in skin tones on this clip.

[chuchicoupe]

i'll update to windows 10 v17618 and madvr FSE lag, don't before

[huhn]

the file has no flags making it pure guessing work.
just a bad encode.
make sure windows 10 hdr is disabled it may does it "thing".

[el Filou]

That's strange, MediaInfo says it's flagged BT.709

[huhn]

so what? is it a container flag or a stream flag?
madVR doesn't get the needed information so most likely not a stream flag.


@chuchicoupe
if you are using an nvidia card check the power settings in the NV control panel make sure it is >not< optimal.

[nevcairiel]

so what? is it a container flag or a stream flag?
madVR doesn't get the needed information so most likely not a stream flag.

Makes no difference though, in absence of flags it guesses BT.709 anyway.

The most likely reason for such color differences are bad configuration on the GPU control panel though, and not in madVR.

[huhn]

yes it falls back to bt 709 for this resolution but is this file really bt 709 and not smpte C?

in term of faces colors i don't think bt 709 is correct. with a proper flag there would be nothing to argue about (which would be BT 709 nearly for sure...).

doesn't fix the issue anyway d3d9 or d3d11 are the same for me so this is something todo with the screen settings or GPU driver.

[mytbyte]

Same here, still no difference with the clip itself, no matter what...

@mclingo: too lazy to back-check if this had been brought up, but does that happen when the GPU is connected to some other display?

[mzso]

Yes, I sometimes have the same problem, but it only happens if you leave the PC long enough so that Windows turns off the display. So one workaround would be to increase that time or disable the function completely.

Still? Ugh I would have hoped this wretch of an OS would have improved in 2,5 somewhat. (But it looks like it'll remain a dump of an OS like Visa was)

Thanks for the info anyway. (I might take a peek at RS4 anyway, well isolated form everything else)

[mclingo]

well thats interesting, it does the same thing with my 40" samsung MU7000 plugged so that rules out my LG OLED TV, could be my receiver though I guess, I'll bypass that next.


reciever also bypassed same result so it has to be my settings of a problem with the GPU, everyone else is testing this with NVIDIA cards?

Anyone got a similar setup to mine?

AMD RX 550 18.2.2
LG OLED 2015 4K
Win 10 creators up to date

[mclingo]

issue is not apparent with MADVR 09024, something must have changed after that to change the way the calibration off setting interacts with my TV, i'll fully configure this version and test again as I've tested it with no settings changes apart from adding DIRECT3D11 tick as it wasnt ticked as default in this old version, could be something i'm doing wrong when configuring MADVR, its more likely something changed in MADVR that doesnt play nice with my TV.

[mytbyte]

Ha...thought it might be the amd thing so I checked on an RX580, Win 10 1709, built in screen - picture is still the same, no matter what D3D or fullscreen mode is used.

[mclingo]

Well i've found one issue, or at least the setting that might be causing it, someone might be able to explain whats going on now. Its in TV properties, if I choose 8 bit its ok, if I choose 10bit (or higher) I get those nasty reds, positive my TV is 10 bit, could it be 8 bit afterall or is something else going on here?

here is my TV model and specs - supposed to be 10 bit

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/ef9500


edit - reinstalled latest version, same behaviour, picture back to normal with 8 bit enabled instead of 10 bit in display properties.

This setting, what does it actually do?


EDIT 2 - with this settinng set to 8 bit I lose HDR passthrough mode - no more HDR :).


here is my config screen -

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gdi4kmb0nlcb36/Star%20Wars%20Episode%201%20The%20Phantome%20Menace%20%281999%29.mkv_snapshot_00.32.31_%5B2018.03.09_21.38.57%5D.jpg?dl=0


(( screeshot doesnt capture the red tones for some reason, everything is unticked)

[mytbyte]

@mclingo: perhaps the TV goes into forced native gamut mode if you enable 10 bit manually (it is sometimes erroneously associated with wider gamut)...that would mean MadVR communicates with the TV...what happens if you changed bitdepth in Radeon settings?

Another clue: I think it is said that 10 bit works only in D3D11, that might explain the difference between D3D9 and D3D11? in D3D9 it is always 8 bit and that's why it looks OK

[mclingo]

ok, getting some odd behaviour here, here is what i've found.

AMD control panel - MADVR - result
8 bit 442 8 bit ok
8 bit 442 10 bit ok
10 bit 442 10 bit blown reds
10 bit 442 8 bit ok
8 bit 444 RGB 8 bit ok
8 bit 444 RGB 10 bit blown reds

[mclingo]

@mclingo: perhaps the TV goes into forced native gamut mode if you enable 10 bit manually (it is sometimes erroneously associated with wider gamut)...that would mean MadVR communicates with the TV...what happens if you changed bitdepth in Radeon settings?

Another clue: I think it is said that 10 bit works only in D3D11, that might explain the difference between D3D9 and D3D11? in D3D9 it is always 8 bit and that's why it looks OK

this and my results would suggest to me that MADVR is processing 8 bit movies incorrectly in that the only way to solve this is to force MADVR into 8 bit when it plays 8 bit movies, how can I be the only one seeing this though, do you have 10 bit enabled in MADVR, on your AMD card and have DIRECT3D enabled?

[nevcairiel]

this and my results would suggest to me that MADVR is processing 8 bit movies incorrectly in that the only way to solve this is to force MADVR into 8 bit when it plays 8 bit movies

Considering it works for everyone else, it seems more likely that either your graphics card/driver or your TV behave badly when processing 10-bit.
The processing on madVRs side for 8 or 10-bit output is quite the same, only the number of bits in the final output step is different.

[mclingo]

its not my TV as i've tried it with my MU7000 same thing happens. results dont make sense to me but they are correct, I went through them twice.

[mytbyte]

Looks like it may also be a MadVR -> AMD driver issue...I could connect it to an oldish plasma tomorrow or a monitor with HDMI even, since I can't get to my regular TVs over this weekend, and see if i can replicate over HDMI...

[mclingo]

Looks like it may also be a MadVR -> AMD driver issue...I could connect it to an oldish plasma tomorrow or a monitor with HDMI even, since I can't get to my regular TVs over this weekend, and see if i can replicate over HDMI...

sorry, maybe i'm misunderstanding the implication of what you just said , are you saying you have the same problem now on your Rig or that you havent actually tested it yet using a 4K AMD card?

Your assistance is much appreciated but dont put yourself too much.

[mclingo]

another oddity. If I put my gfx card in 8 bit 442 and MADVR in 10 bit it looks ok and HDR works, guess this is the easiest workaround for now, just not sure why this doesnt work if I put my GFX in full RGB 444 and MADVR to 10 bit, I get blown out reds, this makes no sense at all.

I can leave with my GFX set to 8 bit for now until I can get some help getting to the bottom of this.

[Asmodian]

another oddity. If I put my gfx card in 8 bit 442 and MADVR in 10 bit it looks ok and HDR works

When using 8-bit output from the gfx card always set madVR to 8-bit. You do not want madVR dithering to 10-bit and then the GPU dithering that to 8-bit, better to simply dither to 8-bit once.

Why not use the gfx card set to RGB 8-bit? At least on Nvidia, HDR still works when using 8-bit RGB output and the quality would be better than having madVR set to 10-bit.

It sounds like your TV is bad at processing 10-bit input.

[mclingo]

unfortunately I cant set MADVR to 8 bit, HDR stops working in that it no longer triggers HDR mode on my TV.

The other option is to configure calibration but calibrating it for BT709 still looks a bit too red and BT2020 a bit too yellow, the correct setting seems to be somewhere in middle, rock and hard place...

[Asmodian]

AMD's drivers are weird. :p

[mclingo]

just mine or everyone's?, guess thats what i'm trying to find out :)

[huhn]

8 bit may work with the windows API the AMD API needs 10 bit because AMD...

[mclingo]

ive gone back to using the calibration, i've calibrated for DCI-P3 with BT706/601 curve@2.20 - It seems to be good enough and I can run my full rig in 10 bit again. If anyone else has this issue or has an idea what it might be let me know.

Cheers all for your input.

[mytbyte]

sorry, maybe i'm misunderstanding the implication of what you just said , are you saying you have the same problem now on your Rig or that you havent actually tested it yet using a 4K AMD card?

Your assistance is much appreciated but dont put yourself too much.

It's OK, I'm a tinkerer :D the RX580 is in a laptop and I can't reproduce your problem on laptop's monitor...

I connected the laptop this morning via HDMI to a 2008 Panasonic plasma (HDready) and I still can't make it trip: HDMI 8, 10, 12 bits, any pixel format except RGB 4:4:4 Limited range (because it's not detected by the TV) from AMD driver, madVR set to 8 or 10 bits, D3D9 or 11, FSE or not, all look the same...

I also tried an LG monitor, did have some trouble when switching between RGB and YCbCr in regard to the video range (crushed picture), but nothing that would resemble your case...sorry...let's wait for madshi, see what he sayz...

[mclingo]

It's OK, I'm a tinkerer :D the RX580 is in a laptop and I can't reproduce your problem on laptop's monitor...
..

ok, thanks very much for your help, it might only happen with RX cards connected to a 4K HDR TV maybe, i have a liveable workaround if this doesnt get solved by MADSHI.

[mytbyte]

ok, thanks very much for your help, it might only happen with RX cards connected to a 4K HDR TV maybe, i have a liveable workaround if this doesnt get solved by MADSHI.

I seriously intend to connect it to my 4K TV (non HDR) these days (didn't have the time, the laptop is brand new) so watch this space :D