madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Andy o]

As far as I can tell, 30-bit Deep Color is up and running already on Windows 7 machines with ATI 5000 cards (like mine). My display (Pioneer KRP-500) reports it's receiving 30-bit too. Windows though only can be set to 32-bits (24+8 alpha), just like Vista and XP, so I wonder if it's doing anything at all.

[yesgrey]

As far as I can tell, 30-bit Deep Color is up and running already on Windows 7 machines with ATI 5000 cards (like mine). My display (Pioneer KRP-500) reports it's receiving 30-bit too. Windows though only can be set to 32-bits (24+8 alpha), just like Vista and XP, so I wonder if it's doing anything at all.
It's only available via DirectX. Within the desktop we will continue to have 8 bit per channel at most. ;)

[somy]

I've beening following this thread for some time, and I've been used MPC-HC+ffdshow+MadVR for 2 months now.
I'm very surprised by the superb image quality rendered, however I notice some problem when I play 24P(framerate 23.976) movie with refresh rate 23.976HZ. I expected to get smooth playback, but the playback isn't smooth at all, in fact I noticed serious judder during the movie. When I switch to Sync render in MPC-HC, the playback becomes more smooth.
Is this due to my stupidity or it's a known issue with MadVR?

[Alante]

I've beening following this thread for some time, and I've been used MPC-HC+ffdshow+MadVR for 2 months now.
I'm very surprised by the superb image quality rendered, however I notice some problem when I play 24P(framerate 23.976) movie with refresh rate 23.976HZ. I expected to get smooth playback, but the playback isn't smooth at all, in fact I noticed serious judder during the movie. When I switch to Sync render in MPC-HC, the playback becomes more smooth.
Is this due to my stupidity or it's a known issue with MadVR?

:eek: You just brook some video physics law. Playing a video file at same refresh, is suppose to give absolute SMOOTH PLAYBACK... or at least this is the notion presented by some from above that consider themselves specialists when it comes to video. Surprisingly even linked to some professionals (that work in this domain) with slightly similar notions... So who should we trust, what we see with our eyes, or what this specialists theorize? :)

Don't know what to think about that ,but in my world "the theories should apply in practice" and since they didn't, as in NO judder at 60 Hz with a Video rendered at 24/25/50 FPS it's kinda obvious that something's not right here. Maybe my VGA has some hidden feature that forces refresh rate at same rate of the video, and then their theories would be true - but don't know nothing about that. Until somebody can clear the air, I'll can only threat those theories with sarcasm, would kinda stupid to threat them seriously when they don't apply in practice (all the time).

[pirlouy]

@Alante: why don't you open your own thread to explain your ideas ? Even if we all think you're wrong, you have the right to have your ideas, but not to spam this thread.

This thread is not the place to discuss smoothness and refresh rate utility and it's obvious you'll be banned in 1 or 2 posts if you continue here. Not a threat, just an advice...

[somy]

:eek: You just brook some video physics law. Playing a video file at same refresh, is suppose to give absolute SMOOTH PLAYBACK... or at least this is the notion presented by some from above that consider themselves specialists when it comes to video. Surprisingly even linked to some professionals (that work in this domain) with slightly similar notions... So who should we trust, what we see with our eyes, or what this specialists theorize? :)

Don't know what to think about that ,but in my world "the theories should apply in practice" and since they didn't, as in NO judder at 60 Hz with a Video rendered at 24/25/50 FPS it's kinda obvious that something's not right here. Maybe my VGA has some hidden feature that forces refresh rate at same rate of the video, and then their theories would be true - but don't know nothing about that. Until somebody can clear the air, I'll can only threat those theories with sarcasm, would kinda stupid to threat them seriously when they don't apply in practice (all the time).

Well, if I use Sync renderer, everything looks smoother. And it also works when I play 25P with 50HZ refresh rate.

[somy]

BTW, my projector (Panny AE3000) has frame creation feature, so even with 24P input it should be smooth.

[leeperry]

when I play 24P(framerate 23.976) movie with refresh rate 23.976HZ. I expected to get smooth playback, but the playback isn't smooth at all
because you need to use Reclock to force Windows to behave...the A/V clocks are desynchronized on a PC, and nothing but Reclock can change that.

[somy]

because you need to use Reclock to force Windows to behave...the A/V clocks are desynchronized on a PC, and nothing but Reclock can change that.
Thanks for your suggestion.:thanks::thanks: I tried ReClock, but it seems to work best when the audio stream is decoded to PCM. I prefer to passthrough bitstream to my AMP:confused::confused:

[leeperry]

I tried ReClock, but it seems to work best when the audio stream is decoded to PCM. I prefer to passthrough bitstream to my AMP
Reclock's job is to resample the audio(up to 192kHz oversampling to keep the sound as clear as possible) to perfectly match the video hardware refresh rate...you can't resample S/PDIF packets.

you could let it resample in PCM then do AC3 encoding on top to send it over S/PDIF...depending on how high your SQ expectations are, or transport resampled PCM over HDMI or analog cables. there's no free lunch here ;)

[somy]

Reclock's job is to resample the audio(up to 192kHz oversampling to keep the sound as clear as possible) to perfectly match the video hardware refresh rate...you can't resample S/PDIF packets.

you could let it resample in PCM then do AC3 encoding on top to send it over S/PDIF...depending on how high your SQ expectations are, or transport resampled PCM over HDMI or analog cables. there's no free lunch here ;)

OK, thanks for the hint.
The strange thing is, when I switch to EVR CP I get much smoother playment, so I'm wondering if it's because MadVR doesn't handle 24P well?

[leeperry]

The strange thing is, when I switch to EVR CP I get much smoother playment, so I'm wondering if it's because MadVR doesn't handle 24P well?
I think Beliyaal was trying to use Reclock in bit-perfect mode over his EVR CP(but Reclock was hiccuping from time to time from what I read)...I never tried either 24Hz playback or his EVR CP, but getting butter smooth video playback w/o Reclock is illusional IMHO(except if madshi strikes back! :devil:)

[somy]

I think Beliyaal was trying to use Reclock in bit-perfect mode over his EVR CP(but Reclock was hiccuping from time to time from what I read)...I never tried either 24Hz playback or his EVR CP, but getting butter smooth video playback w/o Reclock is illusional IMHO(except if madshi strikes back! :devil:)

That explains, the old version of MPC-HC which doesn't have Sync render works fine for me.

[ginhead]

greetings,

could anyone let me know if there is a known issue with madvr and directx 11? I recently installed a new game, which I believe updated my directx version. up to that point, madvr was working seamlessly. I found someone with a similar issue here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1311910#post1311910) (w/o any resolution).

In mpc and zoom player (or in graphstudio), the graph will connect, but the file will not play. until the program stops responding.

I'd sincerely appreciate any suggestions on how to troubleshoot this - i'm really missing the awesome madvr pq.

-jeff

[flanger216]

Ignorant blather ignorant blather ignorant blather ignorant blather ignorant blather

As always, I hope that foot tastes good.

Seriously, can we at least lock the guy out of this thread?

[flanger216]

The wide colorspace usually does not help, all it does is make the colors look wrong, if you can configure wide to be rec709 accurate though, do it.

As far as xvYCC goes, now thats very interesting, it can only work on windows 7 and you'll need a hdmi 1.3 videocard.
What it does is increase the number of colors available within the existing rec709 limits, suddonly instead of 255 reds you have 40xx reds, which could result in a much more realistic picture.
madVR could use this to not only actually display very accurate video but maybe even dither the existing values to look even more realistic phycovisually(at the cost of pure mathematical accuracy ofcourse).

Very cool, man... thanks for the info.

I did go ahead and calibrate to a wide-gamut, and while my custom LUT brought everything within a reasonable accuracy, it offered no visual improvements and even seemed to introduce a touch of banding. Definitely seems that, if you can enable a standard gamut on your display, just stick with that.

Ah, but I'm excited to hear that xvYCC actually could improve things. My whole display chain is xvYCC, but, like a previous poster mentioned, I'd been baffled as to how to enable it. Good to know that it's solely a DirectX feature. Also, I imagine Deep Color would be similarly beneficial...? Do any current renderers take advantage of this stuff?

[roozhou]

I am using a 7300LE in my office. Maybe it is a bit "low-end", but still shows the problem.
requirements:
- graphics card with full Direct3D9 hardware support
- at least 128MB of dedicated graphics card memory

- check
- 256MB DDR2


What resolution and how much video ram do you have? Use GPU-z 0.3.8 to check how much is actually being used. If you are trying to play a resolution that requires more video ram than you have, then there will be major lag.

704x480@30fps -> 853x480
Memory Used:
33M (w/o 3dlut) 153M(w/ 3dlut)


It does that, but what is the effect/problem/issue?

Video turns black before showing next frame.


It might appear/be that way because there is a 4 frame queue/buffer of some sort.
Why is madVR doing this? There is no such problem with other renderers. It may also bring A/V async.


Try use GPU-z 0.3.8 to find out how taxing each scaling algorithm is on your GPU core and GPU RAM/bandwidth.
I tried every algorithm. Only bilinear gives smooth playback. Well, even Overlay Mixer gives bilinear scaling.

[namaiki]

I am using a 7300LE in my office. Maybe it is a bit "low-end", but still shows the problem.
.....
Video turns black before showing next frame.
.....
Why is madVR doing this? There is no such problem with other renderers. It may also bring A/V async.
.....
I tried every algorithm. Only bilinear gives smooth playback. Well, even Overlay Mixer gives bilinear scaling.
Was the problem the black flicker or something else?
.....
Video turns/flickers black and the video keeps on playing?
.....
I'm pretty sure most Video Renderers have a render queue.
.....
It *sounds* like that card is not fast enough to renderer the 30 or so fps while doing the processing for image scaling. If your card is not fast enough, then perhaps MadVR might not be an appropriate video renderer for your setup.

What I think could be possible bottlenecks: CPU usage, GPU Core usage, GPU RAM speed/usage...

My 9600M GT does around 10% for no scaling, 40% for 540p-> 480p, 30% for 540p->720p on MadVR's default settings. It is smooth like.. smooth.

[somy]

Has anyone tried to use MadVR with new MPC-HC release with sync renderer?
The movie playback becomes laggy, I'm wondering the new release might break something in MadVR

[namaiki]

The movie playback becomes laggyAfter how long? What should I be looking for? I'm going to try MPC-HC 1557 32-bit right now.. :p

edit: 1557 with MadVR appears to be the same for me... compared to 1281 ^^;

[somy]

After how long? What should I be looking for? I'm going to try MPC-HC 1557 32-bit right now.. :p

edit: 1557 with MadVR appears to be the same for me... compared to 1281 ^^;

From the very beginning of the movie, and I can see judder all the time during the movie. The funny things is, when I turn on info, I can see there is NO frame lost/delayed......
Please give a try and let me know the result. It's more noticable when I play 24P on 23.976HZ device :thanks::thanks:

[namaiki]

My laptop only does 62Hz. :p

Try use ReClock.

[somy]

My laptop only does 62Hz. :p

Try use ReClock.

62HZ?:confused::confused:

[namaiki]

Short story shorter, it says 60Hz, but ReClock picks it up as 61.8Hz and adjusts the video framerate so the refresh rate can be divided cleanish-ly by the number of frames per second of the video. 23.976FPS -> 24.8FPS

[somy]

Short story shorter, it says 60Hz, but ReClock picks it up as 61.8Hz and adjusts the video framerate.

OK, if you use ReClock everything should be smooth.
I just don't like the idea to do audio decoding in order to make ReClock work.
My problem is, I want smooth 24P playback on 23.976HZ monitor.

[namaiki]

since the material is 24p, can you change the refresh rate of the monitor to be a multiplier of the framerate (24, 48, 72, 120hz)?

[somy]

since the material is 24p, can you change the refresh rate of the monitor to be a multiplier of the framerate (24, 48, 72, 120hz)?

For 24P the FPS is 23.976 (24/1.0001) which matches my refresh rate 23.976HZ, and I assume the playback should be smooth at least during the most time of the playback, however it's not the case with MadVR and the new MPC-HC.

[namaiki]

So, if you revert back to an older MPC-HC the judder goes away?

[somy]

So, if you revert back to an older MPC-HC the judder goes away?

Not tried yet, but I remember before I upgrade everything works fine. BTW, I also upgrade my graphics driver to 9.12, it could also be the driver issue.

[janos666]

Everything works fine on my desktop computer. I installed the same software versions (Win7 x76, MPC-HC, FFDShow, madVR) on my notebook (T6250, 8600M GT with forceware 195.62) but I cannot open any movies with madVR.
MPC-HC works well with EVR but it can't to open any files with madVR. (I tried to disable every possible madVR features but MPC-HC always crashes during file openings.) It shows a gray screen and one of the CPU cores is fully loaded but nothing happens. (I tried to wait some minutes). Nothing happens until I click somewhere on the MPC-HC window and Windows ask me about what should it do with this... Any ideas?

[namaiki]

IME it works on 18*.** forceware. For the later one, when it's frozen after opening, make sure MPC-HC window is selected and press the start key on your keyboard to pop up/select the start menu and press again to retract start menu/select MPC-HC again and just press the start key a few more times.

[somy]

Everything works fine on my desktop computer. I installed the same software versions (Win7 x76, MPC-HC, FFDShow, madVR) on my notebook (T6250, 8600M GT with forceware 195.62) but I cannot open any movies with madVR.
MPC-HC works well with EVR but it can't to open any files with madVR. (I tried to disable every possible madVR features but MPC-HC always crashes during file openings.) It shows a gray screen and one of the CPU cores is fully loaded but nothing happens. (I tried to wait some minutes). Nothing happens until I click somewhere on the MPC-HC window and Windows ask me about what should it do with this... Any ideas?

You should check FFDShow settings and see if it ONLy outputs YV12.
Also in your external filter, you can try to set MadVR as Preferred (can't remember the precise name)......

[brokenmind]

[...] but I cannot open any movies with madVR.
MPC-HC works well with EVR but it can't to open any files with madVR. [...]

this may not apply to you but recently I found that an anti-virus update (bitdefender) suddenly prevented MPC-HC & Zoom Player from playing any file with madVR selected as video renderer. it worked though with EVR... :confused:
after defining an exception (for the player exe) in my AV-program's file access scanner settings everything went back to normal (temporary disabling the whole thing also helped).

[namaiki]

Everything works fine on my desktop computer. I installed the same software versions (Win7 x76, MPC-HC, FFDShow, madVR) on my notebook (T6250, 8600M GT with forceware 195.62) but I cannot open any movies with madVR.
MPC-HC works well with EVR but it can't to open any files with madVR. (I tried to disable every possible madVR features but MPC-HC always crashes during file openings.) It shows a gray screen and one of the CPU cores is fully loaded but nothing happens. (I tried to wait some minutes). Nothing happens until I click somewhere on the MPC-HC window and Windows ask me about what should it do with this... Any ideas?

Try an older forceware 186.xx I bet MadVR will work there.
I installed 195.62 and I have the same issue so I have reverted back to 186.81 for now.

[somy]

Anyone has problem with 24P playback? It seems the new version of MPC-HC doesn't support dual display very well:(

[dawar49]

the latest forceware 196.34 don't work either.

[pirlouy]

@somy: When I used dual screen, my problems were already present, so, in my case, it's not the last builds which have caused a problem.

[namaiki]

No one else willing to try ForceWare 186.xx or less?

[somy]

@somy: When I used dual screen, my problems were already present, so, in my case, it's not the last builds which have caused a problem.

Thanks, I found that also yesterday when I tried an earlier version.
You can reproduce this problem when you don't play movie on your primary monitor and refresh rate of two monitors are different.
Turn off aero helps, but it introduces tearing. I'm guess it has something to do with aero taskbar preview feature.

[fps]

No one else willing to try ForceWare 186.xx or less?
Downgrading to this version doesn't work for some newer cards, unfortunately.
For example I can't use this version with my G 210.

[dawar49]

No one else willing to try ForceWare 186.xx or less?

majority of the forceware 191.xx work too.

[namaiki]

I have to do the 'press start key on keyboard about 20 times' to get 191.66 to work. I don't really get much choice in drivers as I've only got a laptop with hybrid graphics.
For me 195.62 just did not want to work with MadVR.

[edison]

i have checked, the 196 driver can not work with madVR, but 195.62 can do.

[namaiki]

i have checked, the 196 driver can not work with madVR, but 195.62 can do.

What GPU? What OS+32 or 64-bit?
For me 9600M GT W7 64-bit madvr 0.11

[edison]

Windows 7 x64, GeForce GT240.

[namaiki]

Does FFDShow video queue output samples option work with MadVR?

[leeperry]

Does FFDShow video queue output samples option work with MadVR?
enable "queued samples" in the ffdshow OSD, and you'll find out ;)

[namaiki]

I was looking at the MadVR OSD. XD

Gonna check again..

edit: Not working in MadVR nor EVR-Custom.

[mochevolete]

could someone please post a short "quick start" for the correct settings with madvr, ffdshow and so on ?

I get serious chroma shifting and heavy stuttering with various Blu-Ray (AVC), I have a E6400, with an ATi 3870, using latest MPC-HC

thanks Nik

[noee]

What are your sources? h.264, mpeg2? Basically, make sure FFDshow has the "codecs" section set up (ffmpeg_mt, livavcodec), don't check any filters and then make sure output is set to YV12 only.

For MPC-HC, I add FFDshow audio and video decoders to the external filters and set to "prefer" and I disable all internal filters. Then, select madVR for renderer output. That's pretty much it. So the graph is simple:

MKV splitter (Haali, in my case) -> FFDshow (audio and video) -> Reclock/madVR

For madVR, I have 3dlut off, Lanczos4/Lanczos4/SoftCubic100, other check boxes unchecked.