madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Thunderbolt8]

ie:
Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players > madVRthat is where you are in right now. guess you meant to say something like "madshi's software"

this forum seems to be topic related though, so adding a subforum for a specific person would change its structure.

[e-t172]

doom9 definitely needs a MadVR subforum(folder/board) where madVR related questions/rants/requests/bug/etc.. can be posted besides the main thread.

ie:
Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players > madVR

I remember asking for this a few years ago, but others disagreed. I guess people are masochists and like searching for information buried deep in the middle of 1600-page threads, as well as being forced to read posts they are not interested in. And then complain that people are asking the same questions again and again. It seems like thousand-page threads are too ingrained as a "doom9 tradition" for that to change.

[James Freeman]

Just to clarify Thunderbolt8,
Right now this thread is in the "Software players" subforum. What I suggest is opening a folder inside "Software Players" called "madVR".
Just click on "Software players" and count the madVR related threads, this should give you an idea why I suggest a subforum named madVR.

Besides NNEDI3 driver problems, would you suggest W10 for mpc-HC + madVR?

[XMonarchY]

"madshi's software/madVR" would not be an appropriate sub-section name. Something like "Proof of God" would be more fitting :).

[ryrynz]

Thankful to have talented people doing this stuff in their spare time, so much has been accomplished in this area that no commercial player has touched on thanks to
projects like ffmpeg, ffdshow, MPC, LAV, Avisynth & all it's filters, SVP, Reclock etc.

It's amazing how many people get into video playback, so many media players out there, many of which are based on MPC! It's indeed a very interesting area of software development.

[James Freeman]

madshi could have been a millionaire by now, but he still keeps madVR free while it is in "beta".
For that, I take my hat and gloves off to shake his hands.
Although I'm not all talk, I'd be buying madVR the second it's out.

[XMonarchY]

If only there was a way to make MPC-HC play Netflix and let madVR do the rendering. That would be epic! Off-topic, but does anyone know how Netflix manages to provide such excellent SuperHD quality at only 6Mbps?

Back on topic - how can I compare my TV's sharpening to madVR's sharpening techniques? TV's sharpening leaves no ringing what-so-ever, while AdaptiveSharpen, FineSharp, and even LumaSharpen (slightly) create ringing.

Is there a way to properly test for judder? My TV can use either normal 23/60Hz mode or 48Hz mode with 2:2 pulldown. However, on some Samsung TV's, its been reported that 48/72/96Hz modes actually produce more judder than normal 23/60Hz modes. Is there a way to check for that? Can madVR detect that?

[aufkrawall]

For many of us, if you look back through the thread, there were numerous issues with NNEDI3 on Win 10 NVidia, through many drivers.
It worked very well for me.

[Dlget]

It worked very well for me.

I selected NNEDI3 as image upscaling & doubling algo .
But it's not working when i play a video.Instead Jinc is used in madVR. I'm using 353.62

[huhn]

new issue in the nvidia driver they removed the support for it.

[aufkrawall]

It may be useful to have this information in the opener post.
Lots of the same questions, over and over again.

[XMonarchY]

I selected NNEDI3 as image upscaling & doubling algo .
But it's not working when i play a video.Instead Jinc is used in madVR. I'm using 353.62

Use 353.49 Hotfix drivers. They are from a newer branch and support D3D9 <-> OpenCL interop (which means they work with NNEDI3).

[Ver Greeneyes]

Use 353.49 Hotfix drivers. They are from a newer branch and support D3D9 <-> OpenCL interop (which means they work with NNEDI3).I think you mean an older branch. They seem to have disabled D3D9 interop in the latest drivers (or perhaps they're simply the first WDDM 2.0 drivers, I dunno).

[aufkrawall]

353.49 is r353 branch, 353.62 is r352.
But this doesn't have to mean much, r353 was just a side-branch to implement new fixes (against TDR issues), which are now also included in the newer r352 branch drivers like 353.62.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Oh, huh. Well, thanks for clarifying, I shouldn't have jumped the gun like that :)

[XMonarchY]

Intel just released:
Intel HD & Iris Graphics Drivers Version 15.40.1.4256 WHQL
Intel HD & Iris Graphics Drivers Version 15.40.1.64.4256 WHQL
Intel HD & Iris Graphics Drivers Version 15.33.38.64.4252 WHQL

All for Windows 10 (on Station Drivers). Could someone test them out to see if D3D9 <-> OpenCL interop has been included/preserved in them? If so - we got more evidence to push onto NVidia's claim that such interop cannot be supported in Windows 10.

[nevcairiel]

If so - we got more evidence to push onto NVidia's claim that such interop cannot be supported in Windows 10.

Please, get your facts straight. They never said "cannot be supported", thats something someone in this thread came up with, tinfoil hatters be mad etc.

They just said "is not supported", which could as easily mean "we're still working on it and disabled it because it was broken in some cases".

In fact, after the comment about it not being supported, the NVIDIA rep also that he would inquire further about future support, which would be nonsense if the statement was meant to mean "cannot be supported"

[XMonarchY]

Please, get your facts straight. They never said "cannot be supported", thats something someone in this thread came up with, tinfoil hatters be mad etc.

They just said "is not supported", which could as easily mean "we're still working on it and disabled it because it was broken in some cases".

In fact, after the comment about it not being supported, the NVIDIA rep also that he would inquire further about future support, which would be nonsense if the statement was meant to mean "cannot be supported"

Sorry, but to me "not supported" and "cannot be supported" is kind of one and the same, but I guess I am wrong.

[Telion]

Yeah, "not supported" could also easily mean "not wanted to be supported anymore".

[dansrfe]

Why does smooth motion have a significant impact on render times and frame drops? In the scenario below, is it because the number of frames that have to be created is roughly 2.5x? Does this necessitate the need to drop to a less demanding scaler or move to a more powerful GPU?

24fps, 96Hz is fine since smooth motion is off.
24fps on 60Hz with smooth motion on doesn't allow the render queue to ever fill up.

Queues: 16/12/12/8
1080p source -> 1440p screen

Chroma upscale: NNEDI-16
Image upscale: NEDI
Image downscale: Catmull-Rom AR

[Akeno]

Why does smooth motion have a significant impact on render times and frame drops? In the scenario below, is it because the number of frames that have to be created is roughly 2.5x? Does this necessitate the need to drop to a less demanding scaler or move to a more powerful GPU?

24fps, 96Hz is fine since smooth motion is off.
24fps on 60Hz with smooth motion on doesn't allow the render queue to ever fill up.

Queues: 16/12/12/8
1080p source -> 1440p screen

Chroma upscale: NNEDI-16
Image upscale: NEDI
Image downscale: Catmull-Rom AR
Smooth motion does impact the gpu. I get an increase of about 5ms with it enabled but it also requires a render time slightly lower than the frame interval e.g. you need ~38ms when the frame interval is 41ms for smooth playback.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[baii]

It does share resources with other operation. But it is hard to say if it is demanding, really Depends on the GPU. you can use some cheaper upscaler as a trade off. Doubling 1080p then downscaling is by no mean a cheap operation. Maybe you are on the edge of the performance, who knows. You can probably find some kind of combo to fit Smooth motion in.

Sent from my 306SH

[InstantAli3n]

Smooth motion does impact the gpu. I get an increase of about 5ms with it enabled but it also requires a render time slightly lower than the frame interval e.g. you need ~38ms when the frame interval is 41ms for smooth playback.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

I didn't realize it had such an impact.

Should Smooth Motion be turned on if I'm using SVP?

EDIT: Nevermind, when I turn off smooth motion I get about 1 frame dropped per second so I guess I need it on. (Is that normal)?

[dansrfe]

It does share resources with other operation. But it is hard to say if it is demanding, really Depends on the GPU. you can use some cheaper upscaler as a trade off. Doubling 1080p then downscaling is by no mean a cheap operation. Maybe you are on the edge of the performance, who knows. You can probably find some kind of combo to fit Smooth motion in.

Sent from my 306SH

I think you're right. On videos less than 900px height, the queues fill up with smooth motion on. Time to update the doubling profile...

[ryokoseigo]

So I haven't seen anything posted about this, so I figure I'll ask:
Since windows 10(latest nvidia driver) madvr wont work on my 4k screen in fullscreen. When I make it fullscreen and press play it crashes the display driver. If I move the video to a second 1080p monitor it will run fine in fullscreen. I have tried various settings, exclusive fullscreen, that dx11 option etc and nothing seems to work.

It was an issue with an older version of madvr I was using, and I updated thinking that was the issue to the latest but that didn't fix the issue either.

Any suggestions? Is this perhaps some wonky driver issue? I was considering doing a clean driver install, although it kinda seems like win10 was a clean driver install since it starts with no drivers...

[RyuzakiL]

It seems DXVA2-CB is broken on Madvr using Win10, screen freezes while watching a movie with it on and crashes madvr, but if I set it to None it plays smoothly. So I guess Win10 is still a buggy mess.

I should have listened to the old saying, "If ain't broken, don't fix it." And settled on using the still solid and stable Windows 7.

Win10 on AMD HD7850, FX8320@4.3ghz

[aufkrawall]

DXVA2-CB works well here with Maxwell GPU on Win 10.

[RyuzakiL]

Update: Issues (Madvr on Win10)

- While tinkering with SuperRes, my screen froze again and crashed Madvr. So DXVA2 is not the prime suspect, I think Win10 handles Madvr differently than Win7 or Win8. The same settings that I use with Win7 and Win8 doesn't work stably with Win10 anymore or better yet Madvr is not stable with Win10.

- My usual profile for FullHD movies, that doesn't trigger AMD crossfire (S-XBR150+Catmull-Rom+JincAR+SuperRes3/0.66) now with Win10 AMD crossfire now stupidly turns on, wasting power. (Pls. don't advice the AMD CCC and make a profile for Madvr to disable Crossfire, cause that doesn't work for ages.)

Or I guess AMD's Catalyst driver is to blame here again. (AMD Catalyst 15.7.1)

[cca]

I have the same driver version and using Windows 10 but none of these problems. But I have an older AMD card (Radeon 5850) and no crossfire.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

[fedpul]

I'm here to report a bug: madVR isn't working with JR Media Center since a couple of versions. I'm trying to track down the issue to the version when it started crashing. It crashes just when you hit play button. No problem with MPC-HC so far. Thanks in advance.

[RyuzakiL]

Additional Issues

- Neither DX11 10bit FSE nor DX11 8bit Windowed FS works, both leads to screen freezing while watching and madvr crashing.

- Tried using DXVA2-CB and DXVA2-Native and Pure Software decode still leads to screen freezing and madvr crashing.

- Tried conservative Madvr settings, even at 13ms of rendering. Screen freezes and Madvr crashes.

-Tried using the report tool of Madvr but it doesn't work too, my goodness.


Lesson learned: Will gonna revert back to Win7. Win10 brought headaches and wasted my precious movie marathon time.

Madvr will not benefit on using DX12 so there's no reason to switch to Win10 unless you want to tinker with privacy settings first and learn dirty hacks to disable feedback. Games will utilize DX12 maybe next year and even then Games that are released are crappy at release (AC Unity comes to mind) so another months of waiting for the game to be functional and stable. So I guess I'm not missing anything by using Windows 7 for another year.

[fedpul]

I'm here to report a bug: madVR isn't working with JR Media Center since a couple of versions. I'm trying to track down the issue to the version when it started crashing. It crashes just when you hit play button. No problem with MPC-HC so far. Thanks in advance.

Well, I tracked the error. It started at 88.17 and continues up to the latest release. Going back to 88.16 fixes the issue. It seems to be related to OSD or Low Latency Mode. I also noticed that with 88.16 it uses my OC clocks on GPU while it uses stock clocks with latest release.

[nevcairiel]

Well, I tracked the error. It started at 88.17 and continues up to the latest release. Going back to 88.16 fixes the issue. It seems to be related to OSD or Low Latency Mode. I also noticed that with 88.16 it uses my OC clocks on GPU while it uses stock clocks with latest release.

0.88.21 works fine here in JRMC. Make sure you use the latest verison of JRMC as well, as it got some improvements in how it handles newer madVR versions.

[noee]

Well, I tracked the error. It started at 88.17 and continues up to the latest release. Going back to 88.16 fixes the issue. It seems to be related to OSD or Low Latency Mode. I also noticed that with 88.16 it uses my OC clocks on GPU while it uses stock clocks with latest release.

You need to report more info.....card, driver, OS, etc.

I'm running jRMC 20 right now, no issues so far with madVR and Win10.

[fedpul]

Software
Player: JRMC 20.0.131 in Windows 7 64 Bits. Lav Filters 0.65
GPU Driver: 15.7.1

Hardware:
Intel i5 3570k @4.2Ghz
HD 7870 OC @ 1100/1375Mhz
16Gb RAM @ 1600Mhz

No settings changed between madVR version comparison.
Using:
Chroma: Jinc AR
Image: Jinc AR
Downscaling: CR AR LL
Doubling: NNEDI 32 @ 1.5x or higher
ED 2

If you need more info pls tell me.

[noee]

Software
Player: JRMC 20.0.131 in Windows 7 64 Bits. Lav Filters 0.65
GPU Driver: 15.7.1

Hardware:
Intel i5 3570k @4.2Ghz
HD 7870 OC @ 1100/1375Mhz
16Gb RAM @ 1600Mhz

No settings changed between madVR version comparison.
Using:
Chroma: Jinc AR
Image: Jinc AR
Downscaling: CR AR LL
Doubling: NNEDI 32 @ 1.5x or higher
ED 2

If you need more info pls tell me.

Well, I would make it crash and then send the crash report to madshi. Meantime, try resetting your madVR settings to defaults, see what happens.

[fedpul]

I will do that, could you please give me instructions about how to send crash report? Thanks in advance

[leeperry]

FWIW, SuperRes is still not "finished". There's one change I plan to do for the next build, which will change the look of the image slightly again (but not too much). Furthermore I will probably increase the radius by default which should get rid of most aliasing problems.
One thing's for sure, .15's SR is aliasing-land compared to .21 and HQ is indeed softer(maybe/prolly even softer than the source as another LQ lover put it) but LQ looks quite artificial and even more so when fuelling sxbr(as opposed to the softer looking NEDI). HQ makes the picture softer but that might very well help hiding upscaled compression artifacts actually. J3AR looks soft but it looks more natural too, people don't look quite as sharp as sxbr150 IRL :p

You provide us with a zillion combinations of filters and sometimes one can easily get bored of an audio/video DSP after the new toy syndrom's faded away duh, anyway atm I still find the stock SR in .21 too sharp even with a strength of 1, a radius of 65 and in HQ mode at that.

All my tests were done on pristine looking 720p50 content, anyway sxbr+SR will tighten up SD content with little worry.

I rest my case that I love how SR smoothes motion-blur but today's tests kinda directed me towards giving up on luma SR and using vanilla sxbr50/75 luma & sxbr125+3/0.41/0.00 SR chroma as I do get the same magical motion-blur smoothing, no über-sharp luma and it'll work on any content as chroma always needs upscaling.

It's an interesting test picture because even NNEDI3-256 still has noticeable aliasing in some image areas. Of course SuperRes doesn't improve on that.
If anything I'm glad I found some very nasty test pictures so you can continue to find cures to aliasing :)

gonna revert back to Win7. Win10 brought headaches and wasted my precious movie.
mVR wasn't tested by madshi on W10 at all. You can always count on AMD and nvidia to fail us when all they care about is squeezing +0.1fps in the latest blockbuster games in order to sell moar. W7 lives on and works flawlessly, too good :cool:

[Hprd]

Win 10 has been ok on this end (gtx 770, latest NVidia drivers). Aside from nnedi3 not working (which I don't use anyways, as xbr + sr looks great) the only issue I've noticed is that when using dx11 10 bit, switching from FSE back to windowed overrides any color corrections, it's fine when first switching to FSE (or it does the same as having "disable GPU gamma ramps" checked, except it doesn't restore the original settings after madvr closes). Dx9 FSE or dx11 8 bit don't do this (they keep the driver or w/e color settings no matter how many times you switch). This may be a driver issue though, as there's weirdness related to this outside of madvr.

[jkauff]

I'm here to report a bug: madVR isn't working with JR Media Center since a couple of versions. I'm trying to track down the issue to the version when it started crashing. It crashes just when you hit play button. No problem with MPC-HC so far. Thanks in advance.
JRMC has its own madVR folder. Have you copied the latest version into that folder? Just do a search for "madvr.ax" to find it, it's in a User folder on the C: drive.

JRMC works fine for me with the latest madVR versions.

[theonepugna]

Sorry for asking but now that NNEDI3 isn't working with the latest NVIDIA driver, what could I replace it with for viewing anime and other cartoon shows?

[ryrynz]

Sorry for asking but now that NNEDI3 isn't working with the latest NVIDIA driver, what could I replace it with for viewing anime and other cartoon shows?

You should really look back a few pages.. this has been mentioned numerous times already.

Just downgrade to 353.49 and wait for Nvidia to fix it in newer drivers.

Disable third party updates Under system properties - Hardware tab - Device installation settings.

Set to No, let me choose what to do
Never install driver software from Windows update

That should sort you out.

[Akeno]

You should really look back a few pages.. this has been mentioned numerous times already.

Just downgrade to 353.49 and wait for Nvidia to fix it in newer drivers.

Disable third party updates Under system properties - Hardware tab - Device installation settings.

Set to No, let me choose what to do
Never install driver software from Windows update

That should sort you out.

Is that to defer driver updates permanently or just temporarily?

[ryrynz]

Is that to defer driver updates permanently or just temporarily?

Until you change it back it'll be permanently. If you're up to speed on PC things anyway which it sounds like you may be, then I'd recommend updating drivers manually or via a driver updater anyway.

[huhn]

Is that to defer driver updates permanently or just temporarily?

this just disables windows update for your GPU. 99% of all people install updates over other ways. usually windows update driver are terrible outdated but this has totally changed for windows 10 at least for now.

[XRyche]

No sir/mama. I either get a brownish image or no image at all. Also it takes about 2 to 5 seconds for the image to initialize in windowed mode, even without Nnedi3. I'm not using delay playback either.

Update: I used Nnedi3 32 neurons luma and chroma doubling and if I wait about 20 to 30 seconds I get a brownish tinted image. When I try to take a .jpg screenshot with MPC-HC's F5 the screenshot appears normal. I guess I wasn't waiting long enough. But 20 to 30 seconds seems like an inordinately long time, doesn't it?

Further update: It seems the long wait time happens with super-xbr as well. The image is okay but its a long wait for the screen to show an image. I actually drop over 500 frames before I get an image on screen. Although the wait time for an image is almost instantaneous with EVR Custom.

Edit: The excessive wait times were all in FS or FSE.

I've been trying things off and on when I have a chance and it appears that if I use any type of Image Doubling I get the inordinately long wait times for an image to appear. I tried to see if Nnedi3 chroma scaling would work without image doubling and it does not.

[jobypeter]

Hi everyone,

I installed the latest madvr(0.88.21) on my win8.1 X64, with GTX960(driver 353.62) and MPC-BE (1.4.5.587 & 501). It shows green screen while playing the 4K HEVC 10BIT LG demos using DXVA. After changed to MPC-HC 1.7.9, it shows "dxva processing failed" then rolls back to non DXVA mode. All the 4K HEVC 10bit/8bit demos can be played smoothly in non DXVA mode and all H264/AVC codec demos played normally.

Thanks for help :)

[huhn]

use copyback 10 bit native DXVA is not really working with directshow.

[fedpul]

JRMC has its own madVR folder. Have you copied the latest version into that folder? Just do a search for "madvr.ax" to find it, it's in a User folder on the C: drive.

JRMC works fine for me with the latest madVR versions.

Yes, I have deleted the madVR folder and updated it with the new folder. I use the same settings that I use without problems in MPC-HC. I think i will use two different versions in each program since it works fine for me. But I would like to know why latest madVR release doesn't use my full OC GPU potential, it uses stock clocks. I will try to push higher settings to see what happens.

[fedpul]

Pushing settings force the clocks to go higher, so ignore what i have said before. ^^