madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[sneaker_ger]

Higher power state?

[huhn]

try advanced randersteps.
my 1060 needs about 18 ms at 1760 mhz for 720 -> 1440edit: using NGU sharp very high, doubling chroma NGU mid.

[heiseikiseki]

try advanced randersteps.
my 1060 needs about 18 ms at 1760 mhz for 720 -> 1440edit: using NGU sharp very high, doubling chroma NGU mid.

What is advanced randersteps?
My 1060 need 18ms too with creators update and I didn't do any overclock.

[huhn]

create an empty folder with ShowRenderSteps in the madVR folder.

pascal GPU are changing there clock like they have nothing better todo that'S why i add the mhz.

[heiseikiseki]

create an empty folder with ShowRenderSteps in the madVR folder.

pascal GPU are changing there clock like they have nothing better todo that'S why i add the mhz.

Thanks, here shows the result

The GPU clock i viewed in GPU-Z is in the range with 1760-1835 almost at 1797

https://imgur.com/a/8DQPH

[mclingo]

you could do with setting up refresh rate matching as you're getting frame repeats every few mins?

[huhn]

he is using SM why should he waste his time with that?

are you using adaptive power settings? 1760+ mhz for 8 ms and lowerwhich should be less than 20 % GPU load.
my guesses right now are wrong rendertimes or madVr thinks or is debugged and is not using NGU i mean it's a win 10 insider build so you know...

[mclingo]

I havent got into SM to be honest, not really sure what its for but I thought it was deployed only where there were issues with matching frame rates. When I've tried it in the past its never been perfect, i'd always see a jump or a glitch here and there even if general playback seemed smoother, I find matching frame rates gives the best playback for me.

[huhn]

what do you expect from a 2 GB card?

[mclingo]

not much but I was using an 8gb RX480 when I last tried.

[e-t172]

Oh boy - I think if I added it all up, I've spent years of my time working on the performance of elements that make up collink, from profile inversion to gamut mapping. There's no doubt that there are faster ways of doing less complex gamut mapping or lower accuracy profile inversion, and of course there are almost certainly speedups possible to my current code, but its not slow for want of caring nor effort.

Apologies if I sounded like I was denigrating ArgyllCMS; that was certainly not my intent, to the contrary. When I wrote this post I was not aware that there were two ways of doing gamut conversion through ICC profiles - the fast way (using precomputed data in the profile) and the slow way (manually inverting the data from the source the truth in the profile). I was under the impression that collink was doing the same thing as Photoshop and other ICC-aware software, and that the only difference is that it's slower, but I was wrong about that.

What would you say is the main drawback of using the precomputed data for color space conversion in terms of color accuracy? Is it something a reasonable person should be worried about? Does it make sense to skip the expensive full computation even for critical applications like madVR?

[mclingo]

There have been no updates from MADSHI for a while, sabbatical or busy do we think?

[Manni]

There have been no updates from MADSHI for a while, sabbatical or busy do we think?

Busy (we don't think, we know, he's stated so).

[mclingo]

cool, hadnt seen that, thought one of you would know, i'd logged a couple of bugs and there had been not action taken, no rush though, its all good, thanks for the info Manni :)

[Tomadam25]

Hi.

Can someone help me with Maximum MadVR setting on AMD RX560 4GB? I run Lanczos3 on every options. Its OK but i want to find out the maximum quality/performance.

[ryrynz]

Best to read a guide and set things to your own preference.
NGU is a popular upscaler/supersampler, SSIM for downscaling (2D generally over 1D) and NGU AA for chroma.
Personally I'd grab Asmodian's profile and tweak to suit your available performance. Everyone's settings are different.

[arabesc]

I'm using Kodi DSPlayer + madVR to play 4K HDR content on a FullHD SDR screen. It works perfectly until subtitles appear on the screen. After that playback becomes somewhat jerky, it seems there are lots of dropped frames even without subtitles on the screen. I've checked the frame stats with and without subtitles - I see no obvious difference in numbers at all, but there's huge difference in playback smoothness. And there are actually no dropped frames in the stats, the playback just looks as if there are lots of them.
Is it the known issue? Does it have a solution?

My system specs: i7700K CPU/iGPU, Win10 Pro x64, Kodi DSPlayer v17.6, madVR v0.92.12, LAV Filters 0.71.

[ryrynz]

Give XYSubfilter a shot?

[j82k]

Is smooth motion working correctly in native HDR mode @ 59/60Hz?
I noticed that on pretty much every HDR movie when the credits are rolling it looks like they are flashing/blinking rapidly as if the blended frames had a lower or higher brightness than the real frames.
This only happens in native HDR mode. HDR to SDR conversion doesn't show this effect.

[Warner306]

Give XYSubfilter a shot?

DSPlayer uses XySubFilter. This is probably a DSPlayer bug. Give MPC a try.

[djc5166]

DSPlayer uses XySubFilter. This is probably a DSPlayer bug. Give MPC a try.

I think there are a bunch of issues with XySubFilter and DSPlayer. I have a few movies where subtitles causes madvr to crash in DSplayer, but everything plays fine with Xysubfilter in MPC with madvr.

[brazen1]

Fwiw, I've been using the official KODI with no Xysubfilter. Subs have never been a problem from the BD menu and are mapped to my remote keyed 'subtitle menu'. Many customizations in MPC for subs as well. Matter of fact, I've been playing with external.srt's + BDMV file structure to automate them. No English sub for foreign spoken parts (only) are not uncommon. Getting an external sub to load with an iso takes a lot of navigating and requires mouse. I've got it to load with a couple remote clicks now.

I've always been using MPC-BE for all the settings it offers that MPC-HC doesn't. They are very handy and I will miss them. Lately, MPC-BE has been crashing and/or madVR as well, sometimes at video start, sometimes at end. madVR has not been sending crash reports for some reason either. Other oddities like MPC-BE does not auto exit anymore and instead restarts the title. All this despite not changing a thing I know of? Tried many combos or rolling back player versions from the nightlies I've always used as well as LAVFilters. I think I even rolled back madVR a version or two? Last night I got sick of it and replaced MPC-BE with MPC-HC and used the same upgraded external LAVFilters instead of the built in version and now all is well again. Perfect actually. Then proceeded to play with sub settings in MPC-HC trying to mimic what MPC-BE used to do. In the end I just put the .srt inside the bdmv folder and ripped it to iso again so MPC can be at the default directory when 'load sub' is opened.

Would Xysubfilter simplify any of this (ripping bdmv with .srt placed in directory) and simplify (loading .srt instead of automating as default), or do you all use partial mkv's and not full iso disc backups?

[Asmodian]

Is smooth motion working correctly in native HDR mode @ 59/60Hz?

Interesting question, all my HDR content is 23.976 so I have not been using smooth motion with it.

Does this still happen with "use linear light for smooth motion" off? It is a trade quality for performance option. I am traveling now but will test it myself when I get home.

[huhn]

Is smooth motion working correctly in native HDR mode @ 59/60Hz?
I noticed that on pretty much every HDR movie when the credits are rolling it looks like they are flashing/blinking rapidly as if the blended frames had a lower or higher brightness than the real frames.
This only happens in native HDR mode. HDR to SDR conversion doesn't show this effect.

it's most likely your TV going crazy with the dumb ABL.
the blended frames are not that bright as the original so the TV is compensating for that creating a very visible difference.

make totally sense SDR is pretty stable unlike HDR which is currently a total mass with no TV even getting close to the spec and every one does what he wants.

[j82k]

I already had all the trade quality for performance options turned off but enabling "use linear light for smooth motion" amplifies the blinking/flashing even more.

I do only notice this during the scrolling credits though, not within the movie but I guess it also persists during the movie but is way less obvious. Switching between "passthrough HDR" and "Convert HDR to SDR" it becomes really apparent that there is something wrong with smooth motion combined with passthrough HDR.

edit: It's not ABL, it still flickers if I turn the contrast on my TV (LG 55C6) to 0 which eliminates ABL.

[huhn]

it'S not possible to disable ABL on OLED.

and changing the contrast doesn't change that the input brightness is way way higher than that what the TV is able to do so it need to be compensated.

and just to make this clear OLED are the worst at this for multiply reasons.

[j82k]

On the 2016 Oleds lowering contrast (in the TVs settings) does reduce the effect ABL has. Reducing contrast below ~46 for SDR or ~20 for HDR causes ABL to not have any visible effect anymore. It's easily verifiable as a small white window will have the same brightness as a fullscreen white window if you lower the contrast to the mentioned values.

So it can't be ABL that's causing this. But that doesn't mean I would rule out some other weird thing the TV is doing for whatever reason. If someone with an LCD HDR TV could test this we would know if it's a TV or a madVR problem.

[huhn]

a Tv with what ever setting can now magical display 1000+ nits or what are you trying to say me?

HDR has a brightness way over what any screen can do even at max brightness so it has to compensate for it.

so what does a TV do ? it scans the image to see how much of the maximal brightness is used in the image and compensate for it.

and like i said before an blended black image with white text doesn't have the same max brightness is "different" so the TV will compensate more for it.

so what does an OLED screen do if the image isn't at it max brightness it make less bright images brighter and bright image dimmer. which is just ABL or if you prefer dynamic contrast.

why doesn't this happen with SDR? because it doesn'T try to display 1000+ nit and it doesn't have to heavily compensate in this case.

[j82k]

I think you're confusing ABL with tonemapping. None of which should affect the credits at the end of a movie. I highly doubt credits would be mastered at 500+ nits.

[Asmodian]

a Tv with what ever setting can now magical display 1000+ nits or what are you trying to say me?


No, they are saying that the TV is the same brightness no matter the area being displayed. ABL limits the total power output, not the way HDR content is mapped to the TV's range. ABL is not kicking in for the blended frames but not for the unblended ones.

I also notice that at low OLED brightness settings it doesn't matter what patch size I use, I measure the same brightness and gamma curve. This is true even in 10000 nits HDR mode and is independent of the peak white being displayed during a particular frame. I can drag in a window displaying peak white and a 20% brightness patch measures exactly the same as when it is the only thing being displayed.

[j82k]

Let me guess, you have a 2017 Oled? As far as I know they changed the behavior of ABL. Where it was contrast that affected it 2016, apparently it is now oled-light that affects ABL in 2017.

[Asmodian]

Yep, 2017 C7P.

[huhn]

No, they are saying that the TV is the same brightness no matter the area being displayed. ABL limits the total power output, not the way HDR content is mapped to the TV's range. ABL is not kicking in for the blended frames but not for the unblended ones.

so you tried all brightness combination in squeal frames to check that the "gamma curve" is not altered in HDR mode?

[Asmodian]

No, I simply measured a 20% patch with and without a 100% window being displayed. That should be enough shouldn't it? I don't need to test every combination. :p

If I turn OLED brightness up the behavior is not the same, then dragging in the 100% window dims the 20% patch.

[huhn]

no that doens't help real playback. and obviously you can't test all combination that's the point of it. patches can only get you this far.

the problem here is not that a patch get's bigger is that a single frame changes it brightness for a very short time (16 ms) and it shows visible issues in HDR mode and not in SDR mode.

[djc5166]

Is there anyway to have madvr render subtitles at a lower brightness for HDR content? It looks like any subtitles are put at maximum brightness which is really distracting, also it makes the ABL dim everything else on the screen into nothingness.

[Asmodian]

the problem here is not that a patch get's bigger is that a single frame changes it brightness for a very short time (16 ms) and it shows visible issues in HDR mode and not in SDR mode.

True, something is odd. I was simply trying to show it probably isn't ABL at fault, because ABL doesn't kick in even with much larger changes in brightness.

[seiyafan]

Is 1050 TI a decent upgrade from R9 270x? I think my current graphics card is about to reach the end of its life so I am looking for replacement. Which card spec has the most weight on the speed for NGU/SSIM/ED?

Edit: Forgot to mention I use it to upscale 1080 to 1440.

[MrDVader]

Hi all.

I wish to upscale SD to 4k. I have an old i5 2500k CPU, running win7.

Can I just upgrade my current GPU (HD7950) with a GTX 1080 with a view to upgrading the rest of the machine in future, or will the current CPU be too much of a bottleneck?

[huhn]

Is 1050 TI a decent upgrade from R9 270x? I think my current graphics card is about to reach the end of its life so I am looking for replacement. What specs has the most weight on the speed for NGU/SSIM/ED?

Edit: Forgot to mention I use it to upscale 1080 to 1440.

similar performance i guess the r9 270x may be faster. so if the r9 still works and you don't want some hardware decoder you are wasting your money.

for NGU don't get polaris and there are no numbers to look out for. generally better pascal card will be generally better for madVR.

@MrDVader
CPU doesn't matter 1050 ti up to 1080 ti are all work for UHD.
i don't know why someone would be a GPU right now if they don't have too.

[mclingo]

Hi, bobbing in my NVIDA 1050 while i'm waiting for my new card, which is the best driver to use at the moment?

[GCRaistlin]

I'm going to buy a new notebook, don't want to overpay for things that will never be used. There's (1) with Intel HD Graphics 610 and (2) with NVIDIA GeForce 940MX. What's the difference between these video adapters for playing low resolution videos at 1920x1080 display with madVR?

[varekai]

I'm going to buy a new notebook, don't want to overpay for things that will never be used. There's (1) with Intel HD Graphics 610 and (2) with NVIDIA GeForce 940MX. What's the difference between these video adapters for playing low resolution videos at 1920x1080 display with madVR?
http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-940M-vs-Intel--HD-610-Desktop-Kaby-Lake/m28796vsm225196

[GCRaistlin]

varekai, I don't see the answer to my question there. The only thing requiring GPU power will be madVR. No games or something like that.

[el Filou]

GeForce 940MX has about 4 times more processing power than HD610 (when HD 610 can reach its max boost clock, which isn't guaranteed).
12 EU Intel GPUs are pretty useless for madVR.

[huhn]

even a hd610 will work fine for 1080p output. just don't expect more than basic scaler.

[mclingo]

There are many gaps in my understanding of MADVR, hopefully someone can fill this one for me.

I have 3 remux MKV copies of start trek 2009, a standard 1080p bluray, a 4k 2160p SDR rip and a 4k 2160p HDR rip, rendering on the standard bluray is 15ms but its 30 on the 4k copies, chroma is 1.5ms on the 1080p bluray but 15ms, 10x more on the 4k material, surely there should be more upscaling going on for the 1080p copy.

Whats going on here?

[Asmodian]

Chroma upscaling is only used to get the chroma to the same resolution as the luma.

For 1080p chroma upscaling takes 960x540 to 1920x1080.
For 4K chroma upscaling takes 1920x1080 to 3940x2160.

Image upscaling should be taking more rendering time with the 1080p source while it should not even be active with the 4K sources. Assuming you have a 4K display?

[mclingo]

yeah 4k TV, so chroma for 4k material starts off at 1080 and is scaled to 2160, forgive my noob questions but why is chroma not already 2160p?

[Asmodian]

GeForce 940MX has about 4 times more processing power than HD610 (when HD 610 can reach its max boost clock, which isn't guaranteed).
12 EU Intel GPUs are pretty useless for madVR.

While this is true you need understand how the dGPU is connected to the display. If it uses a "through the iGPU" setup like Optimus I would rather have the HD610. Cubic, spline or lanczos are good enough for most laptop displays and Optimus is more trouble than it is worth. With something more powerful directly connected to the display you can use better scalers, but a 940MX is still not going to be able to use NGU is it? (I actually don't have much experience with madVR on low end GPUs) :o