madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[SamuriHL]

As mentioned, it really depends on what you're looking to do. I agree that 1000 nit graded content on an OLED does not need a lot of help. 4000 and higher nit content would benefit on some of the OLEDs, but is that enough to spend the time and money to create an HTPC configured to handle it? All depends on your goal.

For many of us, the HDR tone mapping on OLED is just gravy. What I mean is that it's not our main use case for using madvr on these screens. At least for me, anyway. I have lots of 720 and 1080 SDR content that I upscale to 2160 and that can get a bit resource intensive depending on what you're trying to achieve. The end result, however, is remarkable.

So for us that have an HTPC (or did in my case LOL), having one solution that plays all of our content is worthwhile. Hence taking the time to configure madvr for dynamic tone mapping matters to us because it's there anyway. But if your ONLY goal for using madvr is to watch UHD content, it could definitely be argued that madvr is overkill for the vast majority of content on an OLED.

[ashlar42]

is that enough to spend the time and money to create an HTPC configured to handle it? All depends on your goal.
...
For many of us, the HDR tone mapping on OLED is just gravy. What I mean is that it's not our main use case for using madvr on these screens. At least for me, anyway. I have lots of 720 and 1080 SDR content that I upscale to 2160 and that can get a bit resource intensive depending on what you're trying to achieve.
...
So for us that have an HTPC (or did in my case LOL), having one solution that plays all of our content is worthwhile. Hence taking the time to configure madvr for dynamic tone mapping matters to us because it's there anyway. But if your ONLY goal for using madvr is to watch UHD content, it could definitely be argued that madvr is overkill for the vast majority of content on an OLED.
I've been using an HTPC since 2007. I've got a 3070 in it, so I most definitely don't need to build it and I use it for all kind of content already.
Still not a lot of info around on how to implement madVR's DTM for OLEDs.

[Andy o]

Nothing on a PC supports playing DoVi.

Thought so too, but I saw some mentions of it on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/netflix/comments/kqnx8n/windows_10_app_dolby_vision_help/), and sure enough, it seems that some devices are certified for Dolby Vision with Windows. After downloading the Dolby Vision extensions (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/dolby-vision-extensions/9pltg1lwphlf?activetab=pivot:overviewtab) for Windows, I actually see Netflix's tags with "Dolby Vision" on my Spectre X360 15-inch with OLED panel. Further, Netflix enables HDR (or DoVi but no way to actually tell) automatically, without me having to enable HDR on Windows. But this only works on the laptop screen, not on the GTX 1050Ti Max Q powered HDMI port, so it might be an Intel thing (i7-9750H).

But no way to confirm 100% if it's actually Dolby Vision.

[quietvoid]

Still not a lot of info around on how to implement madVR's DTM for OLEDs.Not exactly sure what you're looking for, DTM settings to use madVR for high nits OLEDs?

[SamuriHL]

Thought so too, but I saw some mentions of it on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/netflix/comments/kqnx8n/windows_10_app_dolby_vision_help/), and sure enough, it seems that some devices are certified for Dolby Vision with Windows. After downloading the Dolby Vision extensions (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/dolby-vision-extensions/9pltg1lwphlf?activetab=pivot:overviewtab) for Windows, I actually see Netflix's tags with "Dolby Vision" on my Spectre X360 15-inch with OLED panel. Further, Netflix enables HDR (or DoVi but no way to actually tell) automatically, without me having to enable HDR on Windows. But this only works on the laptop screen, not on the GTX 1050Ti Max Q powered HDMI port, so it might be an Intel thing (i7-9750H).

But no way to confirm 100% if it's actually Dolby Vision.

Sorry, yes, I knew about this and yes it's DoVi. What I meant was no way to play non-DRM'd up the yang content outside of an official Windows Store application. I think Disney+ may work, too but I never got to try it before my HTPC died.

Sadly it helps in no way for anything outside of that ecosystem.

[ashlar42]

Not exactly sure what you're looking for, DTM settings to use madVR for high nits OLEDs?

More or less, yes. I own a 77C1 and I suppose that it might be worth a try with higher than 1,000 nits mastered material.

I also see Envy has introduced Non Linear Stretching+ as new functionality. Still hoping to see a paid for madVR for HTPC sooner rather than later.

[quietvoid]

More or less, yes. I own a 77C1 and I suppose that it might be worth a try with higher than 1,000 nits mastered material.

Since you have a C1, you should be able to upload a custom tonemap curve without roll-off, and get it to start clipping at 700 nits.
Then madVR has to be set to 700 nits peak brightness.
That way the TV won't tonemap anything (in theory). Not sure if anyone's ever tried this out.

For the madVR beta builds (assuming 140+), this is a decent starting point https://postimg.cc/SJqgML2t.

You should figure out your preference with regards to "dynamic target nits", lower = brighter APL, lower contrast. higher = dimmer APL, higher contrast.

If you want stability, you could change the TM curve to mars and use a value around 10-15.
Otherwise that's what you get for beta builds, alternatively there's the option of going back to older versions (around 113 I think?).

[chros]

What do you think, will be there a new beta before the notification message will appear this time? :D

[jkauff]

The madVR discussion on AVS Forum is focused on projectors. I've also seen some recommendations for OLED TVs. Has anyone here seen a guide or suggested settings for an LCD 4K TV? I'm using the 113 beta, but I could join the expiring beta club if necessary. madVR looks better than straight HDR, but not as good as DoVi discs on my Panasonic player.

[quietvoid]

What do you think, will be there a new beta before the notification message will appear this time? :D
Must be getting close to the date.. not that I use madVR enough to see it.

The madVR discussion on AVS Forum is focused on projectors. I've also seen some recommendations for OLED TVs. Has anyone here seen a guide or suggested settings for an LCD 4K TV? I'm using the 113 beta, but I could join the expiring beta club if necessary. madVR looks better than straight HDR, but not as good as DoVi discs on my Panasonic player.

Beta builds with custom curves improved the APL/highlight detail ratio a lot, but that's only really useful for content over your TV's native peak brightness.
Depending on your TV's brightness, it might not be worth it.

[glc650]

Beta builds with custom curves improved the APL/highlight detail ratio a lot, but that's only really useful for content over your TV's native peak brightness.
Depending on your TV's brightness, it might not be worth it.What if your LCD TV is ~1500 peak nits?

[quietvoid]

What if your LCD TV is ~1500 peak nits?

I don't know how they do with 4000 nits+ content.
The gain from using madVR is likely only for that media.

[SamuriHL]

That's like twice what we get on OLED so you have a lot of headroom for native TV tone mapping. No idea how well their internal algorithm works but it's hard to imagine they'd screw it up TOO badly give the amount of nits they have to play with.

[Charky]

Guys, I need help with custom timings...

I recently upgraded my HTPC, from a GTX 1070 to a 3070TI (mostly for gaming reasons).

Here's the current setup : latest Windows 10 build, RTX 3070TI, latest drivers, dual boot, one for the TV (LG OLED C8), mostly for gaming, one for the projector (Sony HW40ES) mostly for watching movies. HTPC is hooked up to a Denon AVR, which outputs to the TV or the projector (I switch HDMI cables depending on the need).

Custom timings had been tricky to setup on the old HTPC with the projector (not the TV) but in the end I could do it using madvr itself and old drivers (385.28 IIRC). I can't do that anymore since my 3070TI requires more recent drivers. And with these recent drivers madvr can't create its own custom resolution using the nvidia API ("rejected for unknown reasons", you know the drill...).

So I followed the advice I read on this forum and I used madvr for measurements only (with a 30 minutes run of a 23p movie), and CRU to inject the custom timings calculated by madvr into the EDID.

It worked like a charm with the LG C8. Smooth playback. No dropped/repeated frames.

However, it doesn't work with the projector. Well, actually, it does. The custom resolution is active and the "measured timings" by madvr match the modified EDID. However, madvr promised me no frame drops/repeats with these timings, yet I ALWAYS get repeated frames every 13 minutes or so using ctrl+J. And these frame repeats actually happen if I let the movie run. These 13 minutes seem to be consistent no matter what "same pixel clock" or "optimized pixel clock" I pick and I'm starting to wonder if there is something wrong with madvr's own calculations...

Any ideas?

EDIT : wow, I've been out of touch a long time. I read stuff about forcing vsync in NCP. Is it necessary now? Why? Would that help?

[ryrynz]

Two questions. Does madvr actually repeat the frame? (is it evident) and secondly why not give Smooth Motion a shot and save the hassle? And no you don't need to force vsync.

[QBhd]

Another option is to use WASAPI audio rendering. Usually drop/repeat estimates in the hours.

QB

[Charky]

Two questions. Does madvr actually repeat the frame? (is it evident)
It does.

and secondly why not give Smooth Motion a shot and save the hassle?
Already tried, and I *really* don't like how motion looks like. It feels choppy to my eyes :(

And no you don't need to force vsync.
Thx !

Another option is to use WASAPI audio rendering. Usually drop/repeat estimates in the hours.
Never heard of that. I generally use audio passthrough/bitstream to the AVR. Could you elaborate? I found this post by SirMaster but I'm not really sure what to make of it (https://www.avsforum.com/threads/guide-building-a-4k-htpc-for-madvr.2364113/post-59981160)

QB

[ryrynz]

Never heard of that. I generally use audio passthrough/bitstream to the AVR.



I bitstream as well. Zero problems here. Apparently it works a little better with MadVR, give it a shot.

[Charky]

OK, miracles do exist. I seem to have succeeded by using NCP to create my custom resolution...

[ashlar42]

I'm getting crazy trying to understand this...

Nvidia driver 471.11. Windows 10 Pro x64 21H1. Latest beta for madVR (the one madshi released yesterday).

I have 10 bit resolutions, all working correctly. madVR is set with native display bitdepth at "10 bit (or higher)". LAV Video using D3D11. Use Direct3D 11 for presentation under madVR's general settings. And yet videos are played as "d3d11 fullscreen windowed (8 bit)".

Any idea why not 10 bit? madVR clearly shows that the video mode selected is 10 bit.

[LenniePaz]

I'm getting crazy trying to understand this...

Nvidia driver 471.11. Windows 10 Pro x64 21H1. Latest beta for madVR (the one madshi released yesterday).

I have 10 bit resolutions, all working correctly. madVR is set with native display bitdepth at "10 bit (or higher)". LAV Video using D3D11. Use Direct3D 11 for presentation under madVR's general settings. And yet videos are played as "d3d11 fullscreen windowed (8 bit)".

Any idea why not 10 bit? madVR clearly shows that the video mode selected is 10 bit.Nvidia isn't capable of 10 bit. It does 8 and 12 bit.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[ashlar42]

Nvidia isn't capable of 10 bit. It does 8 and 12 bit.

Not according to madVR, the driver and the TV HDMI input information. So I don't understand what you are saying.

[huhn]

your GPU output is 10 or 12 ?
madVR will automaticlly use 8 if that'S not the case.

[Asmodian]

Nvidia isn't capable of 10 bit. It does 8 and 12 bit.

This is only true if the display supports 8, 10 and 12 bit, if it only supports 8 and 10 bit then Nvidia will output 10 bit without issue. :)

Nvidia driver 471.11. Windows 10 Pro x64 21H1. Latest beta for madVR (the one madshi released yesterday).

I have 10 bit resolutions, all working correctly. madVR is set with native display bitdepth at "10 bit (or higher)". LAV Video using D3D11. Use Direct3D 11 for presentation under madVR's general settings. And yet videos are played as "d3d11 fullscreen windowed (8 bit)".

Maybe a quick sanity check with madVR v0.92.17?
It works here. I have the same version of Windows 10 Pro (21H1) x64, Nvidia 472.12.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/dd496/asmodian3/madVR_10bit(1).png?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds

Also, make sure nothing else is doing overlays. Any menu or similar will kick it out of 10 bit.

[ashlar42]

your GPU output is 10 or 12 ?
madVR will automatically use 8 if that's not the case.It's 10 bit. Confirmed by the TV HDMI info input menu (green button pressed repeatedly, for those with an LG OLED).

I will try to check with 0.92.17 as Asmodian suggested.

[LenniePaz]

This is only true if the display supports 8, 10 and 12 bit, if it only supports 8 and 10 bit then Nvidia will output 10 bit without issue. :)



Maybe a quick sanity check with madVR v0.92.17?
It works here. I have the same version of Windows 10 Pro (21H1) x64, Nvidia 472.12.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/dd496/asmodian3/madVR_10bit(1).png?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds

Also, make sure nothing else is doing overlays. Any menu or similar will kick it out of 10 bit.10 bit is grayed out for me, and when I asked why in the forums, someone told me Nvidia only allows 10bit when using the Studio drivers. This is with HDR disabled in Windows, and I'm doing the tone mapping in MadVR. Not sure if that matters or not, as far as 10bit being grayed out.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[ashlar42]

Tried 0.92.17, nothing changed. Both with 32 bit and 64 bit players. Kodi DSPlayer (32 bit), MPC-HC (64 bit), MPC-BE (32 bit).

This is Nvidia resolution page:

https://i.imgur.com/0F4LvhI.png

Display properties in madVR:

https://i.imgur.com/kXJD0ZG.png

Calibration in madVR:

https://i.imgur.com/gFelSXp.png

Rendering general settings in madVR:

https://i.imgur.com/060Cr8n.png

LAV Video settings:

https://i.imgur.com/SlFR8MI.png

[ashlar42]

Solved it!

I have a second DP->HDMI cable that goes to the AVR for hi-res audio (no eARC on my AVR and zero trust on eARC working correctly anyway).
The video on the AVR is max 1080p and was set at 8 bit (it acts like a second monitor, basically). Once I set that at 10 bit, madVR went to 10 bit too.

Now I can go back at noticing no difference at all between the two modes... =D

[oldpainlesskodi]

:stupid::D

We're all there lol....oh, the things we obsess about lol

[LenniePaz]

Solved it!

I have a second DP->HDMI cable that goes to the AVR for hi-res audio (no eARC on my AVR and zero trust on eARC working correctly anyway).
The video on the AVR is max 1080p and was set at 8 bit (it acts like a second monitor, basically). Once I set that at 10 bit, madVR went to 10 bit too.

Now I can go back at noticing no difference at all between the two modes... =DWhat GPU do you have ?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[oldpainlesskodi]

It says in his sig.....GTX 3070 FE...

[LenniePaz]

It says in his sig.....GTX 3070 FE...You can't see signatures when you use Tapatalk, which is what I'm using.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[Asmodian]

10 bit is grayed out for me, and when I asked why in the forums, someone told me Nvidia only allows 10bit when using the Studio drivers.

They were wrong. I am not using the Studio drivers.

Where is 10 bit grayed out? :confused:

[LenniePaz]

They were wrong. I am not using the Studio drivers.



Where is 10 bit grayed out? :confused:They aren't wrong. I have a 2060 Super, and apparently 10 bit isn't supported until the 3xxx series, which you have. 10 bit doesn't even show in my drop-down box, only 8 and 12.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[Asmodian]

They aren't wrong. I have a 2060 Super, and apparently 10 bit isn't supported until the 3xxx series, which you have. 10 bit doesn't even show in my drop-down box, only 8 and 12.


My 2080 Ti also output 10 bit to my LG CX without any problem. Pascal too. 10 bit support is very old now, and the miss-information about lack of 10 bit support is just as old. It was true once, but I think it has been almost 20 years now.

Did you forget my previous reply?

"This is only true if the display supports 8, 10 and 12 bit, if it only supports 8 and 10 bit then Nvidia will output 10 bit without issue."

If your display supports 12 bit Nvidia will not offer 10 bit. Which I agree is crazy, but Nvidia does support 10 bit when 12 bit is not available.

[LenniePaz]

My 2080 Ti also output 10 bit to my LG CX without any problem. Pascal too. 10 bit support is very old now, and the miss-information about lack of 10 bit support is just as old. It was true once, but I think it has been almost 20 years now.



Did you forget my previous reply?



"This is only true if the display supports 8, 10 and 12 bit, if it only supports 8 and 10 bit then Nvidia will output 10 bit without issue."



If your display supports 12 bit Nvidia will not offer 10 bit. Which I agree is crazy, but Nvidia does support 10 bit when 12 bit is not available.I'm just going by what I've read.

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211004/b868eba0665266a9092562194b1d645f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211004/859c95b662ffd17cf37d0a988ddd9280.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211004/567cb511075b9c8260be41a999ac3a73.jpg

[nevcairiel]

It definitely is possible even on earlier cards as long as 10-bit is the highest the screen supports. As soon as 12-bit is also supported, it would only offer that.

[LenniePaz]

It definitely is possible even on earlier cards as long as 10-bit is the highest the screen supports. As soon as 12-bit is also supported, it would only offer that.My projector supports 12 bit, and 8 and 12 bit show up in the drop-down box.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[ashlar42]

My projector supports 12 bit, and 8 and 12 bit show up in the drop-down box.
I think nevcariel meant that, if 12 bit is available, 10 bit is not offered as a choice. 8 bit always remains selectable.

[jandari]

With Kodi DSplayer there is no picture with latest beta.

[mclingo]

With Kodi DSplayer there is no picture with latest beta.
no issues here on 141 and dsplayerBG

[chros]

Check your system clock :D

[el Filou]

I have a second DP->HDMI cable that goes to the AVR for hi-res audio (no eARC on my AVR and zero trust on eARC working correctly anyway).
The video on the AVR is max 1080p and was set at 8 bit (it acts like a second monitor, basically). Once I set that at 10 bit, madVR went to 10 bit too.Thanks for this, really useful!
Could this be added to a FAQ (I think there was one explaining the settings but I don't remember who created it)? It's not really obvious information that madVR will use the lowest bit depth among the active displays.

[ashlar42]

Thanks for this, really useful!
Could this be added to a FAQ (I think there was one explaining the settings but I don't remember who created it)? It's not really obvious information that madVR will use the lowest bit depth among the active displays.
If confirmed, I suppose it could be added to madVR Options Explained (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787) by Asmodian, under the "the native display bitdepth is" entry.

Meanwhile, I introduce you to my newest HTPC obsession: ASUS GEFORCE RTX™ 3070 NOCTUA EDITION (https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Graphics-Cards/ASUS/RTX3070-8G-NOCTUA/).

[egandt]

So resolution changing does not work correctly, in fact it often switches from 2160P to 1080P yet plays at 2160P when I enable such switching of refresh rates where only:
2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60
are allowed.

It does not change refresh rate only resolution and then incorrectly, so this functionality seems to have been broken in Windows 11 on an Nvidia 1080TI.

ERIC

Sorry no logs, I took them, but they exceed 200K

[Virtualizer]

Anyone using Windows 11 and HDR (Passthrough)?

I have a relatively fresh Win 11 installation and cannot get HDR (Passthrough) working.

The display does not switch automatically into HDR mode.

If I activate Windows HDR, all colors are washed out.



Didn't have any problems with Win 10 on the same machine.

Update:
Does look like madvr can't recognize the hdr Format, or is the problem that D3D11 renderer is running with 8bit instead of 10bit?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211005/9813bae68fa9c6e456199af267193b6d.jpg

[aquanash]

Solved it!

I have a second DP->HDMI cable that goes to the AVR for hi-res audio (no eARC on my AVR and zero trust on eARC working correctly anyway).
The video on the AVR is max 1080p and was set at 8 bit (it acts like a second monitor, basically). Once I set that at 10 bit, madVR went to 10 bit too.

Now I can go back at noticing no difference at all between the two modes... =D

I ran into the same issue after installing Windows 11 today and found that pressing ALT-TAB even just one time to switch windows causes 10bit to stop working in D3D11 fullscreen windowed seemingly forever until I reboot the machine, then it works fine until I press alt-tab again. I had this same issue in Windows 10 after pressing windowskey-tab and never found a solution.

I just found that setting AltTabSettings to 1 in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer prevents the issue in Windows 11, but you get a really old legacy version of the switcher.

I'm curious if anyone else if having this same issue. Can you please try pressing alt-tab to switch windows and see if it breaks 10bit for you also?

[huhn]

So resolution changing does not work correctly, in fact it often switches from 2160P to 1080P yet plays at 2160P when I enable such switching of refresh rates where only:
2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60
are allowed.

It does not change refresh rate only resolution and then incorrectly, so this functionality seems to have been broken in Windows 11 on an Nvidia 1080TI.

ERIC

Sorry no logs, I took them, but they exceed 200K

compress them.

BTW. wait for the next GPU driver i have been using win 11 dev builds for a while and madVR HDR stops working and comes back with new windows version.

[aquanash]

Anyone using Windows 11 and HDR (Passthrough)?

I have a relatively fresh Win 11 installation and cannot get HDR (Passthrough) working.

The display does not switch automatically into HDR mode.

If I activate Windows HDR, all colors are washed out.



Didn't have any problems with Win 10 on the same machine.

Update:
Does look like madvr can't recognize the hdr Format, or is the problem that D3D11 renderer is running with 8bit instead of 10bit?


Do you have more than one device in your madVR settings? I ran into the same issue in Windows 11 when I had more than one, but once I deleted everything except the current monitor device, HDR passthrough and display mode switching started working fine again.

I'm also seeing multiple (7) "identification" items showing up under the device. There seems to be an issue with madVR's device settings in Windows 11, I never had any issues like this in Windows 10. I'm running madVR v0.92.17.

[Virtualizer]

Do you have more than one device in your madVR settings?



Yes, I always restore my old config on new installations. So there are a few devices, but as I can see now with many identifications, too. So it looks like the same problem.

Update:
After removing all devices as you suggested, Auto HDR does work again. Thank you very much for the hint, but still weird ;)

Debug window does still show d3d11 8bit and hdr format "unknown".