madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Jong]

Thanks Madshi, maybe we are talking of different things I am not sure. But TMT and PDVD both are able to use "Overlay over EVR" - not the old style Overlay, but maybe not your W7 special either I am honestly not sure - and they work with AMD as well as NVidia. The method they use also used to work via VMR9 too. It was Arcsoft support who first used the term "Overlay over EVR" to describe what they were doing.

And thanks for clearing up your intentions regarding FSE and overlay modes. Sounds like FSE is still the way to go for guaranteed smooth playback.

[cyberbeing]

If not, you should get a crash report again (media player will be stuck again). Please send me the crash report *and* a debug log from the same situation then. Thanks!

Here you go:
http://www.mediafire.com/?2ztgv6cil2rt4oa


It seems to be working. i tried 20 switches now in FSE mode. seems to be working now:)
The madVRbudtz build works for me in FSE as well, but it seems to have a side-effect which causes opening, switching, and reloading videos to take a few seconds longer than normal.

[madshi]

Thanks Madshi, maybe we are talking of different things I am not sure. But TMT and PDVD both are able to use "Overlay over EVR" - not the old style Overlay, but maybe not your W7 special either I am honestly not sure - and they work with AMD as well as NVidia. The method they use also used to work via VMR9 too. It was Arcsoft support who first used the term "Overlay over EVR" to describe what they were doing.
I'm not sure what they're doing exactly. Maybe their way of using Overlay only works in protected mode? Maybe it's the one and only way protected mode works? That would make kinda sense because using Overlay makes it easier to block screenshots etc.

[Pat357]

Can you describe this in a bit more detail, please?

You mean the video is not updated? Or the window is not updated? Which zoom setting are you using? Does the problem only occur when downsizing the video window or also when upsizing? It's too bad that screenshots don't work with Overlay. It would be so much easier for me to understand what you mean with a screenshot... :o
You could make a very short video fragment using Fraps or MSI Afterburner (=free).
Small video fragments have the additional benefit that you can capture things that go away fast (ie. that showing only during a very short time.)

[Pat357]

Wooow, this v0.83.2 is even better :

- Windows resizing looks better (no black windows anymore) and is faster when using the mouse the resize.

- On exiting the player MPC-HC/Potplayer are reacting instantaneous.

Overlay is going to be my default setting as it seems very stable, very fast and goes perfect together with the players's OSD (J.River full screen OSD, Potplayer FS OSD)
I used FSE before, but this didn't go to well together with the Players's OSD.
Overlay is like the best of 2 worlds !!
--
Nvidia GTX-570 / /Latest WHQL 306.23 driver / CPU: i7-Hexacore 970 @3.9GHz / Win7 SP1 all updates

[madshi]

@cyberbeing and @Budtz,

could you please try this build?

http://madshi.net/madVR83anotherTest.rar

Freeze still gone? @cyber, crash gone, too?

[cyberbeing]

So far, so good. That build may have resolved both problems. Opening, switching, and reloading videos is fast again as well.

One small glitch which causes the OSD to show unrealistic 268435456-0 queue values when first opening videos, but that's probably harmless.

[madshi]

Is that glitch reproduceable? Which queue(s) show that values? All of them?

[cyberbeing]

All queues, and it's reproducible most of the time. It goes away as soon as the queues begin to fill.

Correction: The video starts playing while it shows the glitched queues for ~1 second, then it shows empty queues for ~1 second, at which point it jumps directly to showing the queues completely full and functioning normally. As far as I can tell it's a purely cosmetic OSD issue, which doesn't have any effect on playback.

[Budtz]

yup workin here too. and faster opening of videos as well it seems.

[cyberbeing]

It turns out the same queue glitch issue exists in the normal 0.83.2 release build, so it has nothing to do with your recent changes in these test builds.

If I enable 'delay playback start' it follows the same pattern, except it shows 0-0 instead of 268435456-0 during the first step.

Edit: The queue OSD glitch appears to have been introduced in madVR 0.83.0

[madshi]

madVR v0.83.3 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* maybe fixed: shutdown freezes in certain situations with MPC-HC
* fixed: shutdown crash
* fixed: glitch in the debug OSD
* improved "look" when moving Overlay window with Aero on

[ajp_anton]

Uh, the new seekbar looks horrible, I liked it when it was small =).
Though I also like the timer. Any chance to get a small pop-up when hovering over the seekbar showing the time for that position?
And of course a size option... you should add a new category for appearance options.

[madshi]

Haha, I guess I can't please everybody. Many people asked for a bigger seekbar. And the small bar had no place for a timer. Anyway, many things in madVR are currently not in their final form or state. I don't want to add customization options for something that's not in its final form yet, so that will have to wait...

A popup would be difficult to implement. Possible yes, but no time for that at the moment.

[6233638]

(2) The new option "disable GPU gamma ramps" seems to work only in fullscreen exclusive mode. Is that what you guys need? Or do you need/want madVR to disable the gamma ramps in windowed mode, too?I do not currently have my display calibrated using an ICC profile (normally I would) but I assume that this feature essentially clears the GPU LUT table/calibration so that it does not interfere with madVR's 3DLUT calibration. Is it restored after playback?

(3) I've tried to improve the anti-ringing quality further compared to the last test build, but I have been unable to do so. So this build is identical in quality to the last test build. I might look into providing a higher quality option in a future build, which will probably consume quite a bit more GPU power, though.I regret being unable to help test this for the last month or so. I had to RMA some faulty PC parts, which ended up being one thing leading to another, taking over a month, and I have only just received everything back now. I am still encountering some issues which requires my PSU to go back along with some other hardware though so I will be gone for another few weeks shortly, and still won't have a chance to properly evaluate things in the near future. :( Other than the video card, basically everything has has been replaced in trying to track down the cause of my issues - if I had known it would be this long, I would have bought new hardware and sold the returned RMA parts.

(1) Does it work well for you? (need feedback from all AMD, NVidia and Intel users)Seems to work well for me (GTX570) as I had not been able to eliminate frame drops in windowed mode for the longest time now.

(2) Do you think it should be enabled or disabled by default?As far as video smoothness and performance is concerned, it definitely seems better. Resizing is perhaps slightly worse, but resizing wasn't great before anyway.

Old windowed mode: frame pauses and is resized with the window.
Windowed overlay: frame pauses and window resizes over the image, with the image being updated only when resizing stops.


Assuming there are no colour/calibration issues (something I don't have the time to check right now) what I'm wondering now, is whether it's worth using Windowed Overlay instead of Fullscreen Exclusive? Going fullscreen with Windowed Overlay is much quicker than switching to Fullscreen Exclusive if you don't need to change refresh rate (30p at 60Hz) and it seems to perform well, avoid tearing/dropped frames.

(4) Is there anybody who still needs the "old exclusive mode path" (which is what you get when enabling exclusive mode and disabling the option "prerender multiple frames in advance")? I'm asking because I'd like to remove the old exclusive mode path.Nvidia's WHQL drivers have been able to work around the presentation glitches for a while now, and the latest drivers now seem to work without any changes from the madVR defaults, so I'd have no issue with it being removed.


Thanks for adding the times to the seekbar in fullscreen exclusive mode. It's been so long now that I had gotten used to it, but it's very nice to have it back.
I'm not keen on the appearance of the big seekbar now, but that's only a minor cosmetic issue.

I have run into a strange issue when evaluating Windows 8 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/evalcenter/jj554510.aspx) though. madVR is only switching to 59.94 and 23.976 in Fullscreen Exclusive mode, not 60.0 and 24.0 as specified. It reports that it is running at 60/24 on the desktop in the new windowed overlay mode though.

Also: none of the current workarounds to get DVD playback working with madVR seem to be working for me on Windows 8 so I am getting Macrovision errors again. I realise this is a low priority issue for you though.



by the way I found microsoft's images used for calibration to be low quality and inacurate... there is similar tests that give me quite better results
for example this image is better than their circles which makes my eyes bleed http://i.imgur.com/EB4hT.gif
when you go far enough from display so you no longer can distinguish black and white lines - square should be exactly the same color as area around it.This type of test is completely inaccurate on flat panel displays. (and barely accurate on CRTs)

See the color tracking of my TV below. Is there anyway I can use tools(?) or manually build a 3DLUT to be used in MadVR to fix the non-linear saturation points of the primaries and secondaries?

http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/67453/I don't see any reason why the yCMS 3DLUT format shouldn't be able to correct this, other than it not offering the controls required to create a suitable LUT.

[Budtz]

madVR v0.83.3 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* maybe fixed: shutdown freezes in certain situations with MPC-HC
* fixed: shutdown crash
* fixed: glitch in the debug OSD
* improved "look" when moving Overlay window with Aero on

seems this version works for me. nice work thx. Would be nice if it was possible to get freezes when opening closing switching videos 100% stable. but maube mpc-hc is buggy?

also what does that gamma ramp setting do? when is it usefull and when should it be disabled?

[Shii]

I remember this problem from some time ago. It was a bug in an old ZP version and got fixed a long time ago. I don't think this is likely to be a madVR bug. But Blight would have to comment on that?
Fixed with latest 0.83.3 build. Thanks!

[madshi]

Would be nice if it was possible to get freezes when opening closing switching videos 100% stable.
Thought this was stable for you now?

also what does that gamma ramp setting do? when is it usefull and when should it be disabled?
It's only useful if you have calibrated your display by using an ICC profile or some of the OS calibration functionality.

Fixed with latest 0.83.3 build. Thanks!
Oh, I'm surprised about that. But good to hear... :o

[mark0077]

madshi, using the new 0.83.3. I got a popup just now as I was testing it for the first time, asking did I want to send the bug report but it wouldn't send so I clicked on close program. I don't see any log on the desktop.

mpc-hc is set to go to fullscreen (madVR FSE) immediately, but as the video was starting to play I double clicked to try to get it into windowed overlay mode, and then this immediately happened. Is going from FSE to overlay windowed known to be like this or is it useful for me to turn on debugging and try to reproduce and send on? This is nVidia GTX 295 with the latest WHQL drivers.

EDIT: Yeah starting a clip immediately into fullscreen exclusive, and as its loading, going to windowed overlay I can reproduce every time now by the looks of it. Is this something you can reproduce an issue with on your end. Otherwise I can send on anything thats of help.

[madshi]

A crash report (press Ctrl+C to get it into the clipboard) plus a matching debug log would help. Thanks!

[mark0077]

Both files uploaded now to here

http://www.sendspace.com/file/o8w3yu

Thanks

[madshi]

Should be fixed in this test build:

http://madshi.net/madVR83mark.rar

[mark0077]

Perfect, no crashing anymore! Still gives me the Direct3D device error and sometimes pauses playback but I think this is expected when going from FSE to overlay without pausing right?

[madshi]

No, it's not really expected. Can you create a debug log with the device error in it with the official v0.83.3? For that please wait long enough before switching to overlay, so that the crash doesn't occur. Thanks!

[ryrynz]

Thanks for those videos - quite helpful! I think it might have to do with Aero. You have it enabled, correct? I've been testing with it disabled. Will try to enable it here...


:) I do have it enabled.

Quick play on HD4000, overlay to exclusive working fine. Those cosmetic issues with redrawing when resizing and fullscreening showing a normal blank window for a moment before entering fullscreen are still present with the with the Mark build.
Will play with both when get home on the other PC.

[mark0077]

OK np, I'm back to official 0.83.3

1) With mpc-hc closed
If I open a file either directly in overlay, or first in FSE and then switch to overlay (no matter how long I wait), I always get a crash actually.

2) With mpc-hc opened already in a window.
If I then open a file in overlay (or then go FSE <-> overlay) I get no crash at all, and no Direct3D message.

Is something different happening when madVR starts up along with mpc-hc. I can't actually get the Direct3D error without a crash with the official version.... Is a debug log of the Direct3D error, with the other version you sent me which doesn't have the crash useful?

EDIT: Damn, scrap that I just got a crash in my scenario 2 above. mpc-hc already opened, and I started a file (again with the official version). In summary, I can't reproduce the Direct3D error without a crash with the official version.

[Budtz]

Thought this was stable for you now?




thx it is stable now. its just that in the last year or maybe more it has gone back and forth with new versions of madvr.

but that might just be my setup ofcoruse. or bugs elsewhere.

[Pat357]

madVR v0.83.3 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* maybe fixed: shutdown freezes in certain situations with MPC-HC
* fixed: shutdown crash
* fixed: glitch in the debug OSD
* improved "look" when moving Overlay window with Aero on

Madshi,

I had to disable overlay to make MPC work with this version.
After starting the player, I get a crash-report every time when I open a movie/video file.
Restarting the PC, didn't help.

If I disable overlay, I no longer see these crash-reports.

As I didn't have problems with other 0.83.x builds, something is very wrong with this version !!

Crash-reports have been send to your e-mail.

[gvanbrunt]

(prices from froogle)

640: 88$, slow, much too expensive for the speed, not recommended
450: 66$, reasonably good performance, best bang for the buck
550: 101$, faster than 450, but also more expensive
650: 110$, slightly faster than 550, very power efficient

Looking at those prices, if you want to save money, I'd get the 450. If you want more speed, the 550 and 650 both look priced ok. If power consumption is important to you, I'd get the 650.

1GB should be enough, unless you want to upscale to 4K, then maybe 2GB would be worth it. But I guess 4K is too far away for now, so I think 1GB should be good enough.



Another thing to keep in mind with video cards is fan noise. That is a big consideration for an HTPC. I had a hard time finding one that was fanless and had enough power. The GT 430 fit the bill. I can play 1080p content on it without issue in my setup. I'm using LAV filter with CUDA acceleration turned on. It does 3D and HD-Audio as well.

However, keep in mind that it is operating at a fairly high gpu level so it may not work for all setups. This is also an outdated card so I'm not sure what newer ones are compatible to it. Just thought I would share what worked for me.

[blackjack12]

Seeing large problems with Windows 8 installs with madVR 83.3 to the point that had to remove and go back to 82.5 and antiringing update 6 and all is well. Sorry no more details right now as don't have time to troubleshoot. ... Radeon 6570 and NVidia 560Ti systems

0.83.3 works great with Windows 7 and Radeon 4890 with ver 12.8 "legacy" driver. Better than it ever has and now handles de-interlacing through madVR correctly.

With Windows 7/Radeon 6570 and latest 12.8 driver now seeing large dropped frames and poor performance with interlaced content and particularly bad with VC-1i material. Had to revert to EVR-CP. Did not get chance to go back to 82.5, but all was working fine before.

Also issues with LAV latest builds causing MPC-HC crash issues and VC-1i issues that will be noted on LAV forum.

Apologize for lack of details but don't have time to test well right now ... but something very wrong and especially with Windows 8 where things were like a rock previously.

madVR 0.83.3
MPC-HC 1.6.4.6001
LAV 0.51.3-52-gdb52a17
Latest Radeon and NVidia released drivers for Windows 7 and Windows 8

UPDATE NOTE:
Going back to madVR ver 0.82.5 with antiringing updates 6 allows Windows 7 system to operate as it did previously as well as NVidia 560Ti Windows 8 system. ...

[pie1394]

Haha, I guess I can't please everybody. Many people asked for a bigger seekbar. And the small bar had no place for a timer. Anyway, many things in madVR are currently not in their final form or state. I don't want to add customization options for something that's not in its final form yet, so that will have to wait...

A popup would be difficult to implement. Possible yes, but no time for that at the moment.

I personally like this style. But I am not good in color and shape design with alpha-blending. It needs someone else to provide Madshi a better look one. :D

[ryrynz]

Pie please upload to imageshack, mediafire, imgur, anything but Doom9, hell will freeze over before that gets approved, thanks. I was going to submit a pic as well, we'll see how yours looks.

*Edit* Well what do ya know... It's beautiful Pie ;)

Madshi, might I suggest ditching the vertical bar and rely on the color to signify the position along the bar?
I know you were wanting to avoid redesigning at this point but a minor tweak here and there should improve MadVR's presentation a little :)

Also guy's.. could you comment on the filename addition I suggested? Thanks.

[dansrfe]

Madshi, might I suggest ditching the vertical bar and rely on the color to signify the position along the bar? I know you were wanting to avoid redesigning at this point but a minor tweak here and there should improve MadVR's presentation a little :)

Completely agree!

@madshi

Can you also slip in the wallpaper interval "disable" checkbox as well? :) Thanks for all of your hard work on madVR! :D

[SamKook]

Ok, I see. I don't think there's much I can do to speed things up. Maybe you could try increasing the 10ms delays to something higher? Not sure what else to suggest...

Yeah, I can always fix it by increasing the delay between each commands so if you say you did all you could to speed it up, that's all I can ask and it's quite all right with me.

There's also quite a bit of delay until the popup show up when right-clicking in FSE mode with the overlay enabled. I don't know if that should have been sped up too with the changes you made or if it's something completely different and/or unavoidable.

One other unrelated thing I noticed, when the overlay is enabled and I go out of FSE mode for the first time(MPC-HC is set to launch in FS) either by using ctrl+enter or by double-clicking while the video is playing, the video pauses and there's an error message on the top left that appears for a fraction of a second and says: MadVR reports: - resetting Direct3D device failed (8876086c)

After the first time, I can switch to and from FSE without any errors.

This is using v83.3(I'm pretty sure 83.2 was doing it too) and it doesn't happen with the overlay off. I have an Nvidia 560ti, using LAV for both audio and video, haali as the splitter(only tested it with a mkv) and reclock but just for wasapi. It's set to not detect the video stream so it doesn't touch the framerate.

[Mangix]

i got a crash. here's a log.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/102011983/crash%20log.txt

[madshi]

Quick play on HD4000, overlay to exclusive working fine. Those cosmetic issues with redrawing when resizing and fullscreening showing a normal blank window for a moment before entering fullscreen are still present with the with the Mark build.
I've improved the cosmetics when moving the window around. Have found no way to improve the other cosmetical problems, unfortunately.

I can't actually get the Direct3D error without a crash with the official version....
Ok, sorry, please try with v0.83.4.

After starting the player, I get a crash-report every time when I open a movie/video file.
Should be fixed with v0.83.4.

Seeing large problems with Windows 8 installs with madVR 83.3 to the point that had to remove and go back to 82.5 and antiringing update 6 and all is well. Sorry no more details right now
Without details there's nothing I can do or say. "Large problems" is about as unspecific as can be...

I personally like this style. But I am not good in color and shape design with alpha-blending. It needs someone else to provide Madshi a better look one. :D
Haha, how about making it pink and neon green? :p

One other unrelated thing I noticed, when the overlay is enabled and I go out of FSE mode for the first time(MPC-HC is set to launch in FS) either by using ctrl+enter or by double-clicking while the video is playing, the video pauses and there's an error message on the top left that appears for a fraction of a second and says: MadVR reports: - resetting Direct3D device failed (8876086c)
Can I have a debug log with v0.83.4, please?

i got a crash. here's a log.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/102011983/crash%20log.txt
Thanks, should be fixed in v0.83.4.

[madshi]

madVR v0.83.4 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* fixed: crash when using Overlay mode

[ryrynz]

Mock up of FSE mode seekbar with filename displayed on the left. Some comments on this please.

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/793/newyg.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/newyg.jpg/)

No major issues with 0.83.4 here on both my machines except for the cosmetic stuff, the black screen issue I had has gone.

If I pause playback and move the window around the screen the image doesn't refresh inside the window until I press play, thus the video image is outside the window
and remains so until I move it back to it's original location.

[naoan]

Hey madshi, just to be clear, if we have ATi card is the overlay mode automaticallly disabled even though the option is ticked?

[detmek]

I get an error "Resetting Direct3D failled (8876086c)" and video pauses with 0.83.4 build if I:
1. Check Overlay and FSE in settings
2. Open video
3. Go into full screen
4. Reopen video (Ctrl+E)
5. Go back to windowed overlay mode.
madVR - log (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19804113/Forumi/Logovi/madVR%20-%20log.7z)
madVR - log1 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19804113/Forumi/Logovi/madVR%20-%20log1.7z)
I tried MPC-BE and PotPlayer.

[THX-UltraII]

Tried the new version and it s working flawlessly on my GTX460:

+1 for skipping exclusive fullscreen mode in the next version. Not needed anymore!

[Jong]

Tried the new version and it s working flawlessly on my GTX460:

+1 for skipping exclusive fullscreen mode in the next version. Not needed anymore!This isn't true. Read what Madshi said on this yesterday:I'm not moving away from FSE at all. Overlay mode is not really meant (by me) to replace FSE. It's meant to replace conventional windowed mode. Personally, I'll stay with FSE for fullscreen movie playback because it is more likely to produce stable and smooth output.

Technically, with Overlay, I can present one frame in advance. So if there's some timing glitch (maybe the CPU is busy doing something else), a frame drop could occur. With FSE mode, if you prepresent multiple frames in advance, there should be no frame drop, even if the CPU is busy for a relatively long time.

[THX-UltraII]

So why would anyone want to use Overlay Mode when playing content in fullscreen if FSE is simply better when running content in fullscreen??

[cyberbeing]

If you have a lower powered GPU which struggles or has issues with madVR's Windowed or FSE modes, Overlay should be significantly faster.

Speed: Overlay > Windowed > FSE
Quality: FSE > Windowed > Overlay

[ryrynz]

One reason I can think of is using the seekbar and multimedia controls in the player UI. This is where FSE falls a little flat right now. Also for some people FSE might not work 100% (dropping frames etc) not sure this is really much of an issue anymore though, but it certainly pays to have options.

[DragonQ]

I never liked overlay in the old XP + WMP days. Bad colours and couldn't take screenshots. :(

[madshi]

Mock up of FSE mode seekbar with filename displayed on the left. Some comments on this please.
I like the missing vertical bar. Looks better this way.

If I pause playback and move the window around the screen the image doesn't refresh inside the window until I press play, thus the video image is outside the window and remains so until I move it back to it's original location.
Really? That's weird. I explicitly tested that and believed to have it fixed. Does everybody has the same problem?

Hey madshi, just to be clear, if we have ATi card is the overlay mode automaticallly disabled even though the option is ticked?
Yes.

I get an error "Resetting Direct3D failled (8876086c)" and video pauses with 0.83.4 build if I:
1. Check Overlay and FSE in settings
2. Open video
3. Go into full screen
4. Reopen video (Ctrl+E)
5. Go back to windowed overlay mode.
madVR - log (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19804113/Forumi/Logovi/madVR%20-%20log.7z)
madVR - log1 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19804113/Forumi/Logovi/madVR%20-%20log1.7z)
I tried MPC-BE and PotPlayer.
Thanks, will have a look at your logs.

So why would anyone want to use Overlay Mode when playing content in fullscreen if FSE is simply better when running content in fullscreen??
Reread Jong's comment, it's explained there.

Speed: Overlay > Windowed > FSE
I disagree. FSE should actually be the fastest mode. And on my PCs (both AMD and NVidia) it most definitely is.

I never liked overlay in the old XP + WMP days. Bad colours and couldn't take screenshots. :(
Do you have bad colors with v0.83.4 when using Overlay mode? I don't think so, but if you have, please let me know!

[cyberbeing]

I disagree. FSE should actually be the fastest mode. And on my PCs (both AMD and NVidia) it most definitely is.

That's never been the case on my PCs, and I've told you as much in the past when I had my 7800GTX 512.
Even with my NVIDIA GT440 DDR5 & ATI 5750 in my new computers, Windowed mode results is lower GPU load than FSE.

[ryrynz]

I like the missing vertical bar. Looks better this way.


*Fistpump* Now if I could only get people to comment on the filename being displayed too =/ At least I know your paying attention Madshi :)


Really? That's weird.


Mmm, interested to see others results. Guys can you pause the video whilst windowed and move the window around, does the video frame track with the window?

[madshi]

That's never been the case on my PCs, and I've told you as much in the past when I had my 7800GTX 512. Even with my GT440 Windowed mode results is lower GPU load than FSE.
What I said is true for the typical usage scenario. You're using very high refresh rates, IIRC? That's a different situation. With high refresh rates, FSE mode has to do more work than windowed mode, that's why you're seeing higher GPU load. But that's really not the typical usage scenario. Most people today have matching refresh rate = movie frame rate, and in that situation FSE mode is faster than windowed mode.