madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) [Archive] - Page 1138

huhn

16th July 2019, 10:54

every 1903 user with new GPU driver get's banding everyone so you going to tell me that 5% and this is not the first time and this will not be the last time.

there is not a single know major problem with win 8 for years.

because you are willing to spend hours to fix win 10 don't except other user to waste there time.

windows 10 is a nightmare because it simply get's updated to often.
do we really need a new WDDM version every 6 months...

Asmodian

16th July 2019, 10:57

do we really need a new WDDM version every 6 months...

This has been confusing me as well... what is Microsoft doing?

nevcairiel

16th July 2019, 12:23

I think people are totally overrating the impact of the new WDDM versions, as if that will always break the drivers and cause all issues. And its not like they are just doing it out of boredom, there is actually new and useful stuff being included.

Short recap of recent WDDM additions:
WDDM 2.0 (Windows 10): D3D12
WDDM 2.1 (1607): Shader Model 6.0 (improved parallelism for much better performance), HDR10, Variable Refresh Rate
WDDM 2.2 (1703): VR
WDDM 2.3 (1709): Backend technology improvements for better hardware control
WDDM 2.4 (1803): More primarily backend improvements, support for choosing your rendering device on a per-application basis
WDDM 2.5 (1809): Ray Tracing
WDDM 2.6 (1903): Shader Model 6.4 (ML stuff), Variable Rate Shading

Now you might not be interested in all of those, most are gaming-only afterall, but I would rather have the graphics stack being brought forward then it stagnating just because some people don't like change.

huhn

16th July 2019, 13:04

the added feature are not the problem it is the to short time frame. the major issues aren't stopping game mode, deleting personal files, reboot loops and now banding for everyone.
heck i have to buy a new studio mic soon because because 1903 decided that the driver isn't a windows driver anymore for an USB device.

shader model 6.4 will not be used in huge quantities any time soon. using insider builds to provide these new features every 3-6 months is great so developer can create content with these features a proper implementation takes a long time anyway. there is a fine difference between stagnation and forcing it down your throat. windows update have a terrible track record and forcing it out every 6 month clearly doesn't help. how may normal user would be negatively effected by delaying WDDM versions from 1607, 1709, 1803, 1903 for 6 months?

2 and a half month until we get a new WDDM version which will come first the banding fix or this new version your bets are on.

Warner306

16th July 2019, 13:17

Not with an LG Oled, colors get oversaturated using SDR if you profile the display and it switches bt.2020 mode, so it must be left unticked.

Maybe the display can't do BT.2020 in SDR mode? Or maybe it has something to do with how the 3D LUT was profiled.

Warner306

16th July 2019, 13:18

Thanks. My projector is the Epson ls10500. So think setting to DCI-P3 is correct.

What would happen if you select ‘disable calibration controls to this device’?

DCI-P3 and BT.2020 should give you more or less the same colors with current content, but BT.2020 would be considered the correct setting if you aren't using a 3D LUT.

If you disable the controls, it defaults to BT.709 and pure power gamma 2.20.

3ll3d00d

16th July 2019, 13:19

I ticked report BT.2020 to display (nVidia only) for BT.2020 although I can't remember why. Maybe someone knows exactly what that switch is for and can elaborate.

One reason is for JVC pj users who want to output in 12 bit, the pj uses the wrong colourspace if the option is not set

Warner306

16th July 2019, 13:22

Thank you.

Does this also apply if I wish to use two 3DLUT files?

If your 3D LUTs are for SDR and HDR content, that would work.

Stereodude

16th July 2019, 13:53

WDDM 2.1 (1607): Shader Model 6.0 (improved parallelism for much better performance), HDR10, Variable Refresh Rate
FWIW, HDR seems to work fine in Windows 8.1. madVR put the Nvidia card into HDR mode, the TV switches and everything seems to work.

nevcairiel

16th July 2019, 14:12

FWIW, HDR seems to work fine in Windows 8.1. madVR put the Nvidia card into HDR mode, the TV switches and everything seems to work.

NVIDIA uses proprietary API to enable HDR on Windows 8.1, only with WDDM 2.1 is there an official OS-driven way to do it, which for application developers means they don't need to build that stuff 3 times (once for AMD, NVIDIA, Intel each).

mclingo

16th July 2019, 14:52

HDR switch has always worked in win 10 with AMD apart from one driver version if memory serves, has NVIDIA broken this again in win10?

nevcairiel

16th July 2019, 15:58

2 and a half month until we get a new WDDM version which will come first the banding fix or this new version your bets are on.

Actually 19H2 is not a major version upgrade, its more akin to a Service Pack in the olden days. The next major update will be 20H1, which Insiders in the Fast Ring are testing now.

So there is a good chance it won't actually have a new WDDM version.

brazen1

16th July 2019, 16:20

I use W10 1903. I have zero banding using nVidia. I'm also using an older driver. I have to. They took 3D vision away recently and before that screwed with drivers so much, non-madVR players started acting up. I don't mind. I don't need newer drivers to keep up with games. I'm interested in watching movies to help divert my attention from the screwed up world it has become and don't need to provide gaming drivers for children. Children who need to get a job more than sit on the couch with a bong and complain they can't play the newest kill or be killed parlay released. Xbox and PlayStation will have to suffice. I'm also using an older card. A 960. It meets the madVR processing I require. I don't need any more. Maybe when I start ripping 8k and need to decode it. I'd much rather keep the O/S updated for free than spend a mortgage payment on the newest wiz bang video card I need like a hole in the head and make my O/S suffer for it. But that's just me and how I roll... right, wrong, or indifferent.

el Filou

16th July 2019, 16:27

I wish they'd continue introducing major changes only once per year, and half-year 'service' releases like they're doing this year, that way we can just update to the mid-year service release.
The problem is not really the changes, it's good to see advances in technology, it's that it looks like nobody is testing them before release, not even the hardware vendors & software devs.
The change to sound driver architecture in 1903 that huhn mentionned hasn't been talked about much before release (just a note 'Creative X-Fis don't work anymore lol' and no details from MS on their changes) even though it broke a lot of specialty sound hardware. The graphics vendors also seem to discover all the issues only after release.
At this point I just hope they're not gonna change BDA one day and break my TV tuners who are working just fine with drivers from 2009 even though the manufacturer doesn't exist anymore...
I never had problems until now but it's only because I upgrade to a new build after a few months, just before the next one is to be released really.
Preview is the new beta, and Release is the new Release Candidate.

clsid

16th July 2019, 17:08

The banding is not a WDDM bug, and there is a workaround for it:
https://old.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/c0xxj7/who_else_here_is_affected_by_this_issue_since_the/

jespermart

16th July 2019, 17:23

One reason is for JVC pj users who want to output in 12 bit, the pj uses the wrong colourspace if the option is not set

When ticked it's used to autoswitch a jvc projector to sdr -> hdr when using a HdFury Vertex switch

huhn

16th July 2019, 20:34

The banding is not a WDDM bug, and there is a workaround for it:
https://old.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/c0xxj7/who_else_here_is_affected_by_this_issue_since_the/

it' at least here known that the issue can be fix by blockign that but that doesn't change that the WDDM version is clearly part of it the problem only happens when the new WDDM version is used.

using a driver that doesn't support the new WDDM version and you will not get banding, on the other hand using a new driver with an older windows build has no banding too.

Actually 19H2 is not a major version upgrade, its more akin to a Service Pack in the olden days. The next major update will be 20H1, which Insiders in the Fast Ring are testing now.

So there is a good chance it won't actually have a new WDDM version.

well that'S bad for my bet because i have my bet on it get's fixed with a new WDDM version.

hotripper

16th July 2019, 23:34

The banding is not a WDDM bug, and there is a workaround for it:
https://old.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/c0xxj7/who_else_here_is_affected_by_this_issue_since_the/

Apparently with limited success

mrmojo666

17th July 2019, 12:45

tp4tissue

17th July 2019, 14:07

huhn

17th July 2019, 14:48

must be nice to be that ignorant of issues.

it doesn't affect me if i don't use it so there is no problem!

mrmojo666

17th July 2019, 15:16

must be nice to be that ignorant of issues.

it doesn't affect me if i don't use it so there is no problem!

are you talking to me ?

chros

17th July 2019, 16:08

are you talking to me ?
:D Sometimes he's grumpy, just leave him be :)

Something else: madvrlabs (https://www.madvrlabs.llc/) :)

clsid

17th July 2019, 18:01

well that's bad for my bet because i have my bet on it get's fixed with a new WDDM version.The WDDM version defines the API, not its implementation. They can fix it in one of the monthly updates.

Alexkral

17th July 2019, 22:02

Something else: madvrlabs (https://www.madvrlabs.llc/) :)

I guess that the motion interpolation refers to the Envy, does anyone know any more detail about this? It could be a very interesting add-on, especially if it's CNN based.

mclingo

18th July 2019, 00:02

hannes69

18th July 2019, 00:06

every 1903 user with new GPU driver get's banding everyone so you going to tell me that 5% and this is not the first time and this will not be the last time.
Windows is a general purpose platform. I think it is quite normal that you have to 'fine-tune' for a special purpose like HTPC.
For most of the problems there are workarounds, updates or according settings like madvr rendering settings.

there is not a single know major problem with win 8 for years.
Maybe. We´re talking about an OS already older than 5 years. We don´t live anymore in the 80s, there 5 years were a long time. How long do you want to keep this system? I know there are still fans for XP out there.
We can´t talk about Windows 10 vs. Windows 8 because of the new structure of Windows 10. We have Windows 10 1507 ... 1903 so we have to compare them and not simply talk about "Windows 10".
Windows 8.1 support ends January 2023, then there will be no discussion about this anymore. I think already today most of the HTPC users use Windows 10 as OS.

because you are willing to spend hours to fix win 10 don't except other user to waste there time.
Why do you think that I have any expectations?
Everyone can do what he wants to do in free-time.
The home cinema topic always leads to a kind of tuning, fixing, optimal setting and so on.
Wasting time is a relative matter. Some people have no problem with OS tinkering. Some have no problem with pixelhunting of 400% magnified single frames. All of this can be a fascinating hobby or a total nightmare, depends on the personality.:D

Mano

18th July 2019, 11:32

Hi, how do i enable madvr to convert HDR content to SDR in mpc-hc?

sneaker_ger

18th July 2019, 11:54

In MPC-HC: Options->Playback->Output select madVR as video renderer.
In madVR settings: devices->[your display]->hdr->tone map HDR using pixel shaders. Set "target peak nits" to a fitting value (until it looks "right" if you don't know).

Mano

18th July 2019, 14:09

Somehow BT.2390 doesn't let me go less than 100 (higher value make it too dark). With cliping, at 130 the brightness is about ok but for color the light blue disappear next to white cloud.

el Filou

18th July 2019, 16:46

With the latest test builds you can set it as low as 20 nits. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2954506-improving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector-203.html
(note that those are not considered ready for general use so probably no support, there have been a lot of changes)

cork_OS

18th July 2019, 17:25

I guess that the motion interpolation refers to the Envy, does anyone know any more detail about this? It could be a very interesting add-on, especially if it's CNN based.
madVR use (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2954506-improving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector-180.html#post57647284) motion vectors matching for HDR processing.

Siso

18th July 2019, 20:31

Can anyone help me to create 2 profiles for 1.78:1 and 1.85:1 movies?

ryrynz

19th July 2019, 06:08

Can anyone help me

Shown on the first page of this thread.

Supported numerical values:
AR, uncroppedAR, encodedAR cropped AR (aspect ratio), uncropped AR, encoded AR,

if (AR = 16:9) and (fileName = "*horribleSubs*.mkv") "Weird profile" else "Normal profile"

Easy peasy.

QBhd

19th July 2019, 06:11

It's easy... Frame rate is very important and Height... I use < signs and the list increases as you go down. I am sure you don't need all of these (I'm not even sure I still do after getting my 4k OLED) so you can edit these and remove some... but the logic is simple:

if (srcHeight < 641) and (deintFps < 25) "720p23 Univisium"
elseif (srcHeight < 721) and (deintFps < 25) "720p23"
elseif (srcHeight < 1041) and (deintFps < 25) "1080p23 35mm Film"
elseif (srcHeight < 1081) and (deintFps < 25) "1080p23"
elseif (srcHeight < 2161) and (deintFps < 25) "2160p23"
elseif (srcHeight < 577) and (deintFps < 26) "576p25"
elseif (srcHeight < 721) and (deintFps < 26) "720p25"
elseif (srcHeight < 1081) and (deintFps < 26) "1080p25"
elseif (srcHeight < 541) and (deintFps < 31) "540p29"
elseif (srcHeight < 721) and (deintFps < 31) "720p29"
elseif (srcHeight < 1081) and (deintFps < 31) "1080p29"
elseif (srcHeight < 577) and (deintFps < 51) "576p50"
elseif (srcHeight < 721) and (deintFps < 51) "720p50"
elseif (srcHeight < 1081) and (deintFps < 51) "1080p50"
elseif (srcHeight < 541) and (deintFps < 61) "540p59"
elseif (srcHeight < 721) and (deintFps < 61) "720p59"
elseif (srcHeight < 1081) and (deintFps < 61) "1080p59"

QB

HillieSan

19th July 2019, 14:49

Hi all, i want just to share my experience with 1903

Yesterday I've updated and no issues so far, to be honest i saw a small improvement in the rendering times.
HDR switch is working, no strange banding, FSE still working , 10 bit is working.

I have a amd card (rx460) and amd processor (ryzen)

bye

Same success story here with an AMD RX 480 card. Drivers are very good and no issues for a very long time. I love AMD’s stable video refresh rate. The settings are high, but not very high. I use an GTX 1080 for games.

I am looking for the AMD RX 5700 as a replacement for the RX 480. I want to go to very high settings. Anyone experienced the RX 5700 (XT) with madvr?

PS. I didn’t noticed any banding. I will check the banding after the holidays.

ryrynz

20th July 2019, 00:14

jespermart

20th July 2019, 08:05

My guess based on the only feedback given in this thread on the 5700XT us that for NGU it's about on the level of a 1080. So should be a significant step up over Polaris. Purchase it and give us some hard numbers please. We can compare performance as I have a 1080.

No it's performance is much higher on my 5700 xt. You can se my settings in the settings bin from madVR. I just made a quick settings bin on my pc so all can see my scaling settings I use for all my 3 profiles, 2160p23, 1080p23 and 1080p3d. My rendering times are under 35ms on all settings. On my previous RTX2080ti I got stuttering, repeated frames every 4.7min bogus hdr and no more support for my 3d movies. On my 5700xt i have no stuttering, repeated frames every 3. hour correct hdr passthrough and support for my 3d movies

16898:)

ryrynz

20th July 2019, 08:27

Pull up a couple of sample videos off the net. Play 1080 and 720 upscaled to 4k with ur settings. Show gpu utilization clock speeds and average render time, thanks. I'll compare with my card using ur settings.

mclingo

20th July 2019, 12:51

chros

20th July 2019, 12:51

said it before, we totally need a basic benchmark MADVR tool to shutdown at lot of these card vs card arguments, sure everyone's setups are going to be different but it would be handy to know the actual differences between cards rather than relying on hearsay and loaded screenshots.

Exactly!

Pull up a couple of sample videos off the net. Play 1080 and 720 upscaled to 4k with ur settings. Show gpu utilization clock speeds and average render time, thanks. I'll compare with my card using ur settings.

Guys, can you make a separate thread for this? Posting the exact video samples (2160p, 1080p, 720p, 540p videos at 23/25/30 fps), so everybody can try it out with his own GPU and post back the results. That would be a nice, killing thread :) Thanks!

chros

20th July 2019, 12:54

You can se my settings in the settings bin from madVR.

Thanks! But can you upload it somewhere else? (approval is pending)

ryrynz

20th July 2019, 12:59

Guys, can you make a separate thread for this?

Don't need much to get a good idea of performance, I was thinking this would be a two post comparison and small talk. Do we want an actual madvr benchmark thread? It's not like anything else is going on here atm.

said it before, we totally need a basic benchmark MADVR tool

Simple comparisons (NGU and tone mapping) give us a good idea of overall performance we can compare easily enough. There's also no arguments only questions.

Perhaps we should define testing criteria if there's enough desire to see this done thoroughly.

nevcairiel

20th July 2019, 14:19

Simple comparisons (NGU and tone mapping) give us a good idea of overall performance we can compare easily enough.

Rendering times are actually a terrible comparison, since clocks change all the time and influence that, and most GPUs figure out how fast you need somethind and don't run at the fastest clock they can (and clock is also not always directly proportional to speed, as other things can hold it up, like memory access and the likes)

A benchmark tool that just runs certain madVR algorithms at max speed and gives you a FPS would give you a much more useful and accurate representation of actual GPU performance.
Something like that actually once existed, IIRC it was a special madVR version that just rendered to the screen at max performance, instead of being held up by VSYNC. But alas, a long time ago. Too bad madshi has so little time these days so we don't have toys like this anymore.

ryrynz

20th July 2019, 14:27

I'm aware, we've been over it enough times in this thread, which why I said clock speeds as well in an earlier post.

Yeah a tool would be best for comparison but we might never get that option unfortunately.

brazen1

20th July 2019, 16:28

I have a 3D/HDR panel. I selected 'passthrough HDR to display' for the 'hdr' tab in my monitor catagory. I created a profile group in my monitor catagory using

if (HDR) "BT.2020"
else "BT.709"

for the calibration tab. Then I created a couple profile names BT.2020 and BT.709 and adjusted them accordingly. I'm happy with this.

I want to create another profile group for the 'hdr' tab. I want to keep passthrough for everything as I have it now except for 3D titles. For those I want a seperate profile. I only want it to trigger for 3D titles. Instead of selecting 'passthrough', I want to select 'tone map using pixel shaders'. Maybe I can brighten 3D up a bit. I would try this rule:

if (3D) "TONE MAP"
else "PASSTHROUGH"

in an HDR profile group name with a couple of TONE MAP and PASSTHROUGH profile names adjusted accordingly.

I have not experimented with any of the new tone mapping tests or builds nor reviewed any of the thread discussions. I understand the main interest is for those that prefer madVR tone mapping instead of the displays logic especially those without HDR compatibilty. My question is, would I achieve anything advantageous considering 3D is SDR? In other words, are you guys able to enhance SDR using madVR tone mapping or is it just the opposite and only able to enhance HDR to SDR?

Using madVR v0.92.17.

el Filou

20th July 2019, 16:58

Tone mapping is only for HDR, so it will never be used for 3D. There is nothing to tone map with SDR.
There is no way to brighten up 3D as the lower absolite brightness is a limitation of your display. You could change the gamma used for 3D to get a brighter mid-range but it would destroy contrast.

chros

20th July 2019, 17:15

Perhaps we should define testing criteria if there's enough desire to see this done thoroughly.
That's my point: otherwise people just say things, like this gpu can do high setiings, and it doesn't mean anything at all.
We don't need bechmark tools:
- just video sample files
- selected screen resolution (4k, 1080p)
- a prepared madvr bin for all the profiles for these samples
- and every one can post their *max* setting with a given GPU

That's it. From that we can clearly see that e.g. a new navi is better than a 1070. And later everyone can decide which GPU is enough for himself.
Because apart from couple of users, there's no list like this.
If noone will do a thread like this, I will, but only couple of weeks later, when I will have time.

Thunderbolt8

20th July 2019, 17:33

@madshi are you able to tell if free madVR will always remain on par quality wise with the madvr version/emby which has to be purchased?

ryrynz

21st July 2019, 02:01

Something like that actually once existed, IIRC it was a special madVR version that just rendered to the screen at max performance, instead of being held up by VSYNC. But alas, a long time ago. Too bad madshi has so little time these days so we don't have toys like this anymore.

You're right, I found reference to it. I've asked madshi about possibly bringing it back, until then we'll just have to do this somewhat inaccurately and manually and hope it comes back in one form or another.

From that we can clearly see that e.g. a new navi is better than a 1070.

Yeah I don't see the need to define the performance of the card completely. A lot of the performance we see across various videos will apply across the board and give us a good enough indication on where the card stands.
We'd want to keep this as simple as possible I think, so I think the best target is 4K. videos a@ 1080@24fps, 4k@24fps and 4K at 60fps and HDR tone mapping for 4K@60fps possibly as well.
Will wait a couple of weeks for you to create the thread and we'll go from there.