madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Nevilne]

I tested FineSharp on several sources and each time I could see obvious ringing using FineSharp in image enhancements and upscaling refinement. LumaSharpen does not SEEM to do that at default settings, so it is beyond me how people find FineSharp superior to LumaSharpen...


I agree. IMO some sources need an artifacting sharpener such as warpsharp instead of ringing/aliasing sharpeners currently in madvr.

[XMonarchY]

I think its a good idea to update the OP with new screenshots of how madVR improves image quality vs. other renderers. Something with NNEDI3 + SuperRes + whatever else would be good. madVR 0.5 is very VERY old and its gotten 100x better since then!

[rack04]

Not sure if it's a bug or my system not keeping up but I get dropped frames at scene transitions with the trade quality for performance setting "don't render frames when fade in/out is detected" unchecked.

[luk008]

Thanks for the new release, madshi. I'm using super-xbr 125 for chroma upscale and image doubling and it seems good for me.

I tested FineSharp on several sources and each time I could see obvious ringing using FineSharp in image enhancements and upscaling refinement. LumaSharpen does not SEEM to do that at default settings, so it is beyond me how people find FineSharp superior to LumaSharpen...

Same opinion here.

[Eyldebrandt]

I tested FineSharp on several sources and each time I could see obvious ringing using FineSharp in image enhancements and upscaling refinement. LumaSharpen does not SEEM to do that at default settings, so it is beyond me how people find FineSharp superior to LumaSharpen...

Finesharp and Luma Sharpen don't do the same things.
Luma Sharpen is a pop eye-candy sharpen who has effect on brights pixels. Basically, he gives relief on some details only in a frame.

But i agree, with really moderates settings in refinement (defaults values are too high for me), he brings "something" with no counterparty.

Finesharp is just about destruction imo.

[Dogway]

I understand that the ideal situation (for dithering, etc) should be to set up Nvidia settings as "Full RGB" (do nothing), and then madVR to "TV Levels" for the TV display, the problem is that with "Full RGB" my desktop looks wrong (clipped).

I tried to set the nvidia video configuration settings (the old setting) to Full, while keeping Desktop to limited (so my desktop looks fine) but the latter seems to override the former because I don't see any change on my videos, or maybe madVR overrides this setting. So my question is, can't madVR override the Desktop color configuration to always use Full on the video driver?

[James Freeman]

After some reading, can I say that overlay mode solves all the issues with windows DWM because it is completely bypassed?

What about DX11 10bit overlay then? Is it possible?

[iSunrise]

I tested FineSharp on several sources and each time I could see obvious ringing using FineSharp in image enhancements and upscaling refinement. LumaSharpen does not SEEM to do that at default settings, so it is beyond me how people find FineSharp superior to LumaSharpen...
Since you neither share your settings (Finesharp) vs. LumaSharpen defaults nor do you provide screenshots to compare, it's a bit complicated to make meaningful conclusions without some hard facts.

There are way too many soft facts in this thread, which will ultimately lead to a product that could be better, but isn't, because people don't provide screenshots which show "what they see".

madshi can only make "good choices" with good quality feedback from this thread.

You just have to press "print screen" on your keyboard when not in fullscreen exclusive (windowed mode) at the same frame with the madVR settings you can change and will show up in realtime in your mediaplayer, upload it to some imagehost and post them here together with a short explanation "what you see". Takes less than 10 minutes to do and helps madshi as well as everyone else that uses madVR.

[James Freeman]

I understand that the ideal situation (for dithering, etc) should be to set up Nvidia settings as "Full RGB" (do nothing), and then madVR to "TV Levels" for the TV display, the problem is that with "Full RGB" my desktop looks wrong (clipped).
Indeed,
Full range from GPU, Limited in madVR, Limited in TV, will give you the best this setup can offer.
It will retain BTB, WTW, will not dither Luma, Just like a very high quality Blu-Ray player.
But at the expense of clipping PC desktop.

The next best thing is: Full GPU, Full madVR, Full TV (if supported and without apparent artifacts).
One conversion stage in madVR, top notch quality, nothing to worry about.
Most common with PC Monitors.

The next next best thing is: Limited GPU, Full MadVR, Limited TV.
You get two range conversions thus two dithering stages, The desktop from Full to Limited by the GPU, and Limited to Full by madVR.
Personally I don't see the dithering pattern so I see no problem with this option too.


I tried to set the nvidia video configuration settings (the old setting) to Full, while keeping Desktop to limited (so my desktop looks fine) but the latter seems to override the former because I don't see any change on my videos, or maybe madVR overrides this setting. So my question is, can't madVR override the Desktop color configuration to always use Full on the video driver?

If I'm not mistaken, madVR as nothing to do with the Video range settings in nvidia Control Panel.

[ryrynz]

The next next best thing is: Limited GPU, Full MadVR, Limited TV.
You get two range conversions thus two dithering stages, The desktop from Full to Limited by the GPU, and Limited to Full by madVR.
Personally I don't see the dithering pattern so I see no problem with this option too.

Could madVR potentially skip this dithering stage (with no drawbacks) in this particular scenario?

[huhn]

Could madVR potentially skip this dithering stage (with no drawbacks) in this particular scenario?

you can't get full range RGB from YCbCr without dithering/rounding so no.

[Dogway]

I wasn't expecting an explanation of something I already know, it was a question towards madshi mostly. Anyway you got it off a bit, so let me correct it, this is from best to worse:

(MADVR, NVIDIA CP, DISPLAY)

-Best situation is PC monitor; FULL, FULL, FULL (no range expansion)
-Then on TV display (is there such a full range TV exist?*); FULL, LIMITED, LIMITED (only range expansion once on madvr but wrong Desktop colors)
-Then the current situation/setup; LIMITED, FULL, LIMITED (nice colors all around but two quantization steps first on video driver -range conversion-, then in madvr)

To overcome this situation madshi should have access to the global/desktop video mode, so we can have Limited range overall, but when switching to FSE madvr can change it to Full in video driver, favoring the next setup (just like the second example above):
-Setup for TV; FULL (when FSE), LIMITED, LIMITED (no range expansion)

He asked (https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523992/geforce-drivers/tip-for-nvidia-users-using-hdmi-and-getting-accurate-color-format/post/3712458/#3712458) for API access 3 years before.

* edit: yeah, found it, in Samsung TV it's called HDMI black level, "low" for limited "normal" for full. BTW because of this the whole post logic is a bit off, also I got the thing a bit off, first comes madVR, then the video driver takes the output of madVR (RGB) and send it through HDMI to the display.

[James Freeman]

I wasn't expecting an explanation of something I already know, it was a question towards madshi mostly. Anyway you got it off a bit, so let me correct it, this is from best to worse:

1. If you are referring to madshi only please type: @madshi.

2. My post does not need correction, for the simple reason that all videos are encoded in limited range, NOT Full.

[huhn]

nearly all TVs can do full range RGB. they usually have on option for this sometimes named black level something named PC/TV level and a lot more names.

[vivan]

2. My post does not need correction, for the simple reason that all videos are encoded in limited range, NOT Full.And so what?
Even when there's no processing, even when there's no scaling - there's still chroma that needs to be scaled and color conversion to be performed.

[ryrynz]

nearly all TVs can do full range RGB. they usually have on option for this sometimes named black level something named PC/TV level and a lot more names.

My VT 50 only can switch modes when connected via DVI, since I bitstream this wasn't an option, but now that LAV does DTS decoding I could potentially go full all the way.

[James Freeman]

And so what?
Even when there's no processing, even when there's no scaling - there's still chroma that needs to be scaled and color conversion to be performed.

Yes, Chroma range and color conversion from YCbCr to RGB still needs dithering to be accurate on an 8bit RGB display.
The point is to make less steps of it and refrain from "unnecessary" additional stages.
Nothing has less conversion stages than the option I have posted, (GPU Full, madVR Limited, TV Limited).

[huhn]

Yes, Chroma range and color conversion from YCbCr to RGB still needs dithering to be accurate on an 8bit RGB display.
The point is to make less steps of it and refrain from "unnecessary" additional stages.
Nothing has less conversion stages than the option I have posted, (GPU Full, madVR Limited, TV Limited).

full range madVR, full range GPU, full range TV has the same number and is a clear winner and the TV at least technically doesn't have to do a limited to full range conversation.

[James Freeman]

full range madVR, full range GPU, full range TV has the same number and is a clear winner and the TV at least technically doesn't have to do a limited to full range conversation.

WRONG, for the last time.

A typical video (mkv, Blu ray, DVD, you name it) is stored in limited range 16-235.
Selecting Full range in madVR WILL stretch it to 0-255 and will require dithering to prevent banding.

You can download the AVS709HD calibration patterns (all in video 16-236 range) and play the Grey Ramp video test pattern.
Now Disable dithering to see banding if madVR is set to Full range.
BUT, when you select Limited range in madVR and Disable dithering you will not see any difference at all with this pattern because madVR is not stretching the original range.

And just to clarify, the native (Standard) range of any TV is Limited.
Your TV box is outputting Limited range.
Nvidia through HDMI was Limited till the last driver.
Your typical Android box will send Limited through HDMI.

[RyuzakiL]

WRONG, for the last time.

A typical video (mkv, Blu ray, DVD, you name it) is stored in limited range 16-235.
Selecting Full range in madVR WILL stretch it to 0-255 and will require dithering to prevent banding.

You can download the AVS709HD calibration patterns (all in video 16-236 range) and play the Grey Ramp video test pattern.
Now Disable dithering to see banding if madVR is set to Full range.
BUT, when you select Limited range in madVR and Disable dithering you will not see any difference at all with this pattern because madVR is not stretching the original range.

And just to clarify, the native (Standard) range of any TV is Limited.
Your TV box is outputting Limited range.
Nvidia through HDMI was Limited till the last driver.
Your typical Android box will send Limited through HDMI.

So I'm using a Samsung 40inch LedTV but i cannot set my TV to limited range since as you said the best setup is to prevent any redundant conversions between MadVR, GPU and TV.

as of now the only settings i can change into limited range were Madvr and GPU (HD7850) though i had a hunch that my TV can do FULL and LIMITED, but the catch is there's no setting where i can change my TV into limited.

But the thing is when MadVR change display modes my TV goes into TV mode and there i can change settings like "black tone", "dynamic contrast" and "HDMI Black level - LOW". but when it goes back to PC mode the settings were unavailable except for "HDMI black level - NORMAL".

so the question is can i still follow that recommended setup or should i settle for FULL,FULL,FULL config?

and there's also LavVideo who also can handle RGB Output levels and deinterlacing. should i disable these in LavVideo and let Madvr handle these?

[huhn]

WRONG, for the last time.

A typical video (mkv, Blu ray, DVD, you name it) is stored in limited range 16-235.
Selecting Full range in madVR WILL stretch it to 0-255 and will require dithering to prevent banding.

You can download the AVS709HD calibration patterns (all in video 16-236 range) and play the Grey Ramp video test pattern.
Now Disable dithering to see banding if madVR is set to Full range.
BUT, when you select Limited range in madVR and Disable dithering you will not see any difference at all with this pattern because madVR is not stretching the original range.

And just to clarify, the native (Standard) range of any TV is Limited.
Your TV box is outputting Limited range.
Nvidia through HDMI was Limited till the last driver.
Your typical Android box will send Limited through HDMI.

the range of a BD is luma 16/235 and chroma 16/240.

i leave the rest of the math to you but sorry you are wrong.

[edigee]

Nvidia through HDMI was Limited till the last driver.

What???
Nvidia has full RGB via HDMI begining with 344.... drivers or maybe earlier.
In the last drivers they introduced only the 8bit/12bit display function.

[huhn]

What???
Nvidia has full RGB via HDMI begining with 344.... drivers or maybe earlier.
In the last drivers they introduced only the 8bit/12bit display function.

and full range worked for PC monitors too without any registry hacks. and high bit deep output worked too it simply did it automatically.
aren't we through this countless times?

[Sunset1982]

I'm planing to upgrade my tv and htpc to 4k OLED and a GTX 980. I've got some questions:

- Who is running a 4K TV with GTX 980 and madvt? What settings regarding imagedoubling/chroma upscaling are possible with this card when upscaling 1080p mkv files to 4k?

- Is it possible to set up a custom resolution to run it in 23,976 mode to avoid repeated/skipped frames in a 3 hours movie?


I'm asking cause I'm coming from an ATI card wich could do 23,976 Hz good enough to avid skipped/repeated frames vor 6-7 hours

[fairchild]

on my 55" VT60 panasonic plasma I use:

LIMITED (RGB 16-235 @ GPU driver), FULL (RGB 0-255 @ MadVR), LIMITED (16-235 at TV) (nice colors all around but two quantization steps first on video driver -range conversion-, then in madvr)

For the many reasons that has been mentioned by James:
1. my HD cable box outputs in Limited and is not changeable
2. my blu-ray player outputs in Limited which is especially important when watching streaming content through Netflix and Amazon
3. my receiver/soundbar which has all 3 devices routed through it (HTPC, blu-ray player, HD cable box) and having all 3 using different settings is impossible
4. when watching content through the TV itself be it through the HD antenna for OTA broadcasts or internal apps, they all use Limited.
5. when watching content through the HTPC on the TV such as gaming or watching youtube or any other streaming sites, I also want to keep all video levels the same

[James Freeman]

I had a hunch that my TV can do FULL and LIMITED, but the catch is there's no setting where i can change my TV into limited.
so the question is can i still follow that recommended setup or should i settle for FULL,FULL,FULL config?
Most TV's are built around Limited range and their CMS and processing works best in limited range if not exclusively, like yours TV.
My Panasonic ST60 Plasma behaves best (no banding) only in Limited range when 4:4:4 is enabled.

I would recommend sending Limited Range to your TV.
GPU Limited, madVR Full, TV limited (Good all around but two [invisible] conversion stages).
Or GPU Full, madVR Limited, TV Limited (No stage conversions, best for Video but clipped PC range).

The question is whether your TV does 4:4:4 only in PC mode or in TV mode also (if at all)?
I would aim my priority for Smooth (no banding) 4:4:4 first, then on less range conversions.

on my 55" VT60 panasonic plasma I use:

LIMITED (RGB 16-235 @ GPU driver), FULL (RGB 0-255 @ MadVR), LIMITED (16-235 at TV) (nice colors all around but two quantization steps first on video driver -range conversion-, then in madvr)

For the many reasons that has been mentioned by James:
1. my HD cable box outputs in Limited and is not changeable
2. my blu-ray player outputs in Limited which is especially important when watching streaming content through Netflix and Amazon
3. my receiver/soundbar which has all 3 devices routed through it (HTPC, blu-ray player, HD cable box) and having all 3 using different settings is impossible
4. when watching content through the TV itself be it through the HD antenna for OTA broadcasts or internal apps, they all use Limited.
5. when watching content through the HTPC on the TV such as gaming or watching youtube or any other streaming sites, I also want to keep all video levels the same

Exactly!

I'm not advocating for limited range when using TV, but in my experience limited range gives more accurate picture with my TV and without unnecessary conversion stages if GPU+madVR set accordingly.
The Panasonic ST/VT 50/60 only like limited range with 4:4:4 like you already noticed.

If a TV behaves well in full range like a PC monitor, then by all means, use GPU Full, madVR Full, TV Full.

[edigee]

I'm planing to upgrade my tv and htpc to 4k OLED and a GTX 980. I've got some questions:

- Who is running a 4K TV with GTX 980 and madvt? What settings regarding imagedoubling/chroma upscaling are possible with this card when upscaling 1080p mkv files to 4k?

- Is it possible to set up a custom resolution to run it in 23,976 mode to avoid repeated/skipped frames in a 3 hours movie?


frames vor 6-7 hours
If you're not a hardcore gamer a GTX 960 or a new AMD serie R9 370 would be a far more better choice. The h265/HEVC full decoding capabilities of these two are something to look for. H265 would became mandatory for 4k because of the smaller file sizes and smaller bandwidth comparing to H264. GTX 980 has only limited decoding capabilities of h265.
The skipping frames are not something to bother for unless you have a very senzitive eye sight. For instance I use reclock with good results , of course with the 32 bit limitation. There is no reclock for x64(yet)

[huhn]

If you're not a hardcore gamer a GTX 960 or a new AMD serie R9 370 would be a far more better choice. The h265/HEVC full decoding capabilities of these two are something to look for. H265 would became mandatory for 4k because of the smaller file sizes and smaller bandwidth comparing to H264. GTX 980 has only limited decoding capabilities of h265.
The skipping frames are not something to bother for unless you have a very senzitive eye sight. For instance I use reclock with good results , of course with the 32 bit limitation. There is no reclock for x64(yet)

sadly the r9 3xx doesn't have HDMI 2.0. at least all source i readed said this.

[XMonarchY]

So are you saying that Limited range is better for each TV out there? I totally agree that all BD's use Limited range, but I figured that if your TV supports 12bit + Full range + RGB then gradients would be even smoother due to having more than 0-255 levels. On my Samsung SPVA and 12bit setting + Full range + RGB has much better gradient smoothness than 8bit/12bit + Limited range OUTSIDE of madVR (on desktop that is).

[edigee]

sadly the r9 3xx doesn't have HDMI 2.0. at least all source i readed said this.
http://www.techpowerup.com/213575/amd-fiji-silicon-lacks-hdmi-2-0-support.html
This?

[Sunset1982]

The skipping frames are not something to bother for unless you have a very senzitive eye sight.

I'm extremly sensitive to those visual imperfections. :(



If you're not a hardcore gamer a GTX 960 or a new AMD serie R9 370 would be a far more better choice.

what about scaling 720p and 1080p files to 4k in madvr?? enough power for imagedoubling NEEDI32 and good chroma upscale?

[huhn]

http://www.techpowerup.com/213575/amd-fiji-silicon-lacks-hdmi-2-0-support.html
This?

yes. but we should stay on topic now after the good old limited/full range stories.

finesharp is the current topic.

[aufkrawall]

I suppose the bug that the tap menu für Jinc disappears is known?
I can't select the number of taps anymore for image upscaling with Jinc, it's grayed out. Tried resetting settings, didn't help.

[huhn]

I suppose the bug that the tap menu für Jinc disappears is known?
I can't select the number of taps anymore for image upscaling with Jinc, it's grayed out. Tried resetting settings, didn't help.

4 and 8 tabs are removed. they are bad scalers there is no need for them.

[luk008]

I suppose the bug that the tap menu für Jinc disappears is known?
I can't select the number of taps anymore for image upscaling with Jinc, it's grayed out. Tried resetting settings, didn't help.

It's not a bug, madshi has removed Jinc 4 from the options because there's any significative advantage over Jinc 3 since both sharpness and aliasing increase in the same proportions.

[RyuzakiL]

Most TV's are built around Limited range and their CMS and processing works best in limited range if not exclusively, like yours TV.
My Panasonic ST60 Plasma behaves best (no banding) only in Limited range when 4:4:4 is enabled.

I would recommend sending Limited Range to your TV.
GPU Limited, madVR Full, TV limited (Good all around but two [invisible] conversion stages).
Or GPU Full, madVR Limited, TV Limited (No stage conversions, best for Video but clipped PC range).

The question is whether your TV does 4:4:4 only in PC mode or in TV mode also (if at all)?
I would aim my priority for Smooth (no banding) 4:4:4 first, then on less range conversions.



Exactly!

I'm not advocating for limited range when using TV, but in my experience limited range gives more accurate picture with my TV and without unnecessary conversion stages if GPU+madVR set accordingly.
The Panasonic ST/VT 50/60 only like limited range with 4:4:4 like you already noticed.

If a TV behaves well in full range like a PC monitor, then by all means, use GPU Full, madVR Full, TV Full.

arrggh...stuck between two configs

I now understand that my Samsung 40inch LedTV can do both FULL and LIMITED by way of toggling "HDMI Black Level" to NORMAL (0-255) and LOW (16-235) and also my panel can do FULL and LIMITED range RGB 4:4:4

so now the question is what are the advantages of using FULL, FULL, FULL config compared to FULL, LIMITED, LIMITED config?

it seems my panel is a very flexible one and can do either both config, so i'm confused what config to use.

P.S. just want to put a nail on this topic and move on.

[RainyDog]

arrggh...stuck between two configs

I now understand that my Samsung 40inch LedTV can do both FULL and LIMITED by way of toggling "HDMI Black Level" to NORMAL (0-255) and LOW (16-235) and also my panel can do FULL and LIMITED range RGB 4:4:4

so now the question is what are the advantages of using FULL, FULL, FULL config compared to FULL, LIMITED, LIMITED config?

it seems my panel is a very flexible one and can do either both config, so i'm confused what config to use.

P.S. just want to put a nail on this topic and move on.

If you've confirmed that your panel can definitely do Full RGB 4:4:4 then use that.

What James says about his plasma doesn't apply to your LCD. Many LCD telly's are perfectly capable of replicating a PC monitor and will do full RGB 4:4:4 fine.

I calibrated my Sony telly running AVS patterns in madVR outputting full RGB 4:4:4 using an EyeOne Pro with Colour HCFR and the results were nigh on reference.

[RyuzakiL]

Ok thanks, then my next mission is too calibrate this panel but it seems i'll be needing some high-end expensive equipment just for that. hm.. I think I'll just have to settle with default settings of my Samsung Telly (Default Movie Profile)

[James Freeman]

To test your TV for 4:4:4 and Banding,

Banding Test: Smooth Grey Gradient (http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/209517/)
Banding Test 2Smooth Color Gradient (http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/209516/)
4:4:4 Test: Chroma 4:4:4 Image (http://madshi.net/madVR/ChromaRes.png)

You should see 4:4:4 and no banding at all.
If your TV/Projector/Monitor can display 4:4:4 Full range without banding, it would be ideal because madVR's dithering is top quality.

[lanzorg]

Finesharp is the current topic.


FineSharp is really too bad, madvr needs implementation of LimitedSharpenFasterMC and UnsharpHQ from the avisynth world.

Avisynth script chain:


SetMTMode(3,0)
ffdshow_source()
SetMTmode(2,0)
LimitedSharpenFasterMC(1)
UnsharpHQ(THRESHOLD=80,SHARPSTR=0.1,SMOOTH=0.2)
GradFun2db()
SetMTMode(1)
GetMTMode(false) > 0 ? distributor() : last


LimitedSharpenFasterMC avisynth function:


function LimitedSharpenFasterMC(clip clp,int "strength")
{
ox=clp.width
oy=clp.height
ss_x=1.5
ss_y=1.5
wide=true
softdec=-1
soft=softdec!=-1 ? softdec : sqrt((((ss_x+ss_y)/2.0-1.0)*100.0))*10
soft=soft>100 ? 100 : soft
ssx=round(float(ox*ss_x/8)*8)
ssy=round(float(oy*ss_y/8)*8)
clp.isYV12() ? clp : clp.converttoyv12()
ss_x !=1.0 || ss_y !=1.0 ? last.spline144resize(ssx,ssy):last
tmp=last
dark_limit1=tmp.mt_inpand()
bright_limit1=tmp.mt_expand()
dark_limit=(wide==false) ? dark_limit1 : dark_limit1.removegrain(20,-1).mt_inpand()
bright_limit=(wide==false) ? bright_limit1 : bright_limit1.removegrain(20,-1).mt_expand()
minmaxavg=mt_average(dark_limit1,bright_limit1)
Str=string(float(strength)/100.0)
normsharp=mt_lutxy(tmp,tmp.removegrain(11,-1),"x y == x x x y - abs 16 / 1 2 / ^ 16 * "+Str+
\ " * x y - 2 ^ x y - 2 ^ "+Str+" 100 * 25 / + / * x y - x y - abs / * + ?")
last=mt_clamp(normsharp,bright_limit,dark_limit,1,1)
clp.isYV12() ? tmp.mergeluma(last) : tmp.mergeluma(last.converttoyuy2())
return last
}

[aufkrawall]

4 and 8 tabs are removed. they are bad scalers there is no need for them.
Thanks. It always displayed Jinc3 for me until I changed settings, a little confusing. :)

[XMonarchY]

How can I compare madVR renderer image with all them HQ settings I use to the "original image", whatever that means. In fact, what IS the original image? Which madVR settings should I use to get that image? Set everything to bicubic?

[Asmodian]

How can I compare madVR renderer image with all them HQ settings I use to the "original image", whatever that means. In fact, what IS the original image? Which madVR settings should I use to get that image? Set everything to bicubic?

There is no "original" image anymore.

If you mean to the image you used to get with EVR or something you simply compare to the other renderer. Don't try to configure madVR to give an image similar to EVR.

[XMonarchY]

OK, gotcha.

I have another problem. I don't know which info I need to report, but at times when I watch a video without any issues at all and then pause & resume it, the video begins to stutter badly until I shut down MPC-HC completely and restart the video...

[omarank]

Thanks for the feedback. I don't like NEDI for chroma upscaling, either. FWIW, I've found a little bug in super-xbr chroma upscaling. Please compare again. Maybe super-xbr could replace Jinc as the "best medium speed" chroma upscaler?
I don’t think super-xbr can replace Jinc as the best medium speed chroma upscaler, because Jinc is more natural looking. I prefer suber-xbr chroma (sharpness 100) over Jinc AR chroma in two instances, when the source is rather soft or the image is being downscaled by a large factor using CR AR LL.


For image doubling, super-xbr is good, but NNEDI3 is much superior. In the screenshots below, NNEDI3 clearly looks the best on this sample:
Jinc3 AR (http://www.mediafire.com/view/ncvqrpb3lrc3b78/Jinc3AR.png)
NNEDI3 64 neurons (http://www.mediafire.com/view/gimc8kfg4v6kxqf/NNEDI3_64.png)
Super-xbr sharpness 100 (http://www.mediafire.com/view/ah4xhpda191cns2/super-xbr_100.png)
Original (http://www.mediafire.com/view/1fmldz0ts1bdlc9/original.jpg)

[Warner306]

Is there a place for debanding when outputting at 10-bits with dithering? I find it harder to detect banding with the sources I use.

[Warner306]

Also, can someone tell me if this chroma subsampling chain is correct?

HTPC Chroma Subsampling: (Source) Y'CbCr 4:2:0 -> (madVR) Y'CbCr 4:4:4 to RGB -> (TV) Y'CbCr 4:2:2 or Y'CbCr 4:4:4 to RGB

[huhn]

Is there a place for debanding when outputting at 10-bits with dithering? I find it harder to detect banding with the sources I use.

the madVR dithering isn't removing banding it simply doesn't add more that's it so the usage of bedanding doesn't change with 10 bit output it just depends on the source quality. and even 10 bit sources in the future will have banding.

HTPC Chroma Subsampling: (Source) Y'CbCr 4:2:0 -> (madVR) Y'CbCr 4:4:4 to RGB -> (TV) Y'CbCr 4:2:2 or Y'CbCr 4:4:4 to RGB

not sure what you mean but.

there are a lot of possibilities.

and it is really hard to judge what is really happening in a TV. but you can assume the final signal given the pixel is based on full range RGB signal i guess...
a GPU can output 4:2:0, 4:2:2, 4:4:4, limited range RGB and full range RGB (and that with 8-12 bit to make things more complicated). the madVR output is RGB with all possible ranges thanks to the custom levels but madVR is kind of telling the GPU his signal is full range RGB always.

[Warner306]

the madVR dithering isn't removing banding it simply doesn't add more that's it so the usage of bedanding doesn't change with 10 bit output it just depends on the source quality. and even 10 bit sources in the future will have banding.



not sure what you mean but.

there are a lot of possibilities.

and it is really hard to judge what is really happening in a TV. but you can assume the final signal given the pixel is based on full range RGB signal i guess...
a GPU can output 4:2:0, 4:2:2, 4:4:4, limited range RGB and full range RGB (and that with 8-12 bit to make things more complicated). the madVR output is RGB with all possible ranges thanks to the custom levels but madVR is kind of telling the GPU his signal is full range RGB always.

Does the TV always convert back to YCbCr before conversion to RGB, or is it possible for the TV to display RGB from a PC without conversion?

[QBhd]

As stated, it's very hard to know exactly what the TV is doing internally... We can only guess

QB